New here and struggling

[Purplex]

Hi there 
I am new to this board and it seems like I finally found a community that might be able to relate to my struggles and help me cope with conflicting emotions concerning my relationship. So here it goes.

Me (28) and T (26) are trying to figure out if we can make our relationship work and are not officially together yet. He is diagnosed with BPD, depression and anxiety but goes to therapy (DBT) once a week. His therapist is a BPD specialist and really helpful and competent (I once joined him in a session to talk about our issues). T is working hard to get better as well, putting a lot of effort in trying to cope in a healthy way and communicating his feelings and needs to the people around him. But there are still a lot of issues that can’t be resolved easily, even with good communication and the willingness to change.

Over the course of nearly 2 years our relationship developed from a casual, but also unusually emotional FWB situation to a somehow intimate but mostly sexless friendship with a lot of complicated feelings involved to a breaking point of no contact for 3 months to the point we are at now: both somehow willing to commit to each other but still not able to take the last step because of a lot of doubts and fears on both ends.

Our main issues:

-   The pain of being abandoned in a committed romantic relationship is so overwhelming for him, that he’d rather avoid commitment altogether. This was the main reason we ‘broke up’ in the first place. I finally acknowledged my feelings for him and wanted commitment, but he just couldn’t overcome his fears of abandonment although it was obvious that I was more than just a good friend to him. In a way he already got over this issue when he told me that he wanted to be with me and was sick of letting his fear control him 3 months later. I was happy but also really caught off guard by his change of heart and he was ok with me taking some time to reconsider. Great! But a week ago my frustration got the better of me while he was in a crisis what caused him to dissociate and ultimately backtrack on his offer after his last therapy session. On the one hand I appreciate him setting boundaries, and I know I need to work on keeping my composure in those situations if I don’t want things to get exponentially worse. But on the other hand, I feel deeply hurt by him withdrawing again, disregarding all the times I DIDN’T act out for his sake and beeing so unforgiving.   

-   Our (not existing) sex-life. When we met our sex was pretty great, he was open and adventurous, and I was excited to see where this was going. But as we grew closer he gradually lost interest in me until we stopped having sex at all. At first, I didn’t think much of it, but as I realized that he was very much interested in other women and had sex with acquaintances, female friends or girls who contacted him on social media on a regular basis, I started to feel rejected and insecure. I knew from the beginning that he was very promiscuous and since we never agreed to be exclusive I just tried to ignore that fact and not care too much. I am no stranger to casual sex myself, but for me, emotional closeness and romantic feelings just enhance my urge for physical intimacy, whereas for him strong emotions somehow seem to inhibit all sexual desires. He once told me, that he feels like sex is the only thing he has to offer and that he is good at. He seems to use it like any other mutual bonding activity, to get validation and easy satisfaction. And since he feels so close to me already, sex is no longer required or fitting. Lately he told me that he couldn’t get himself to see me in a sexual way at all anymore, although he wants to and knows that this makes me feel miserable and undesired. It hit him hard when he realized, that he has a sexual disorder as well, while he always thought that this was the one subject he would never have issues with. Somehow, I was so naïve to think, that once we were exclusive our sex life would automatically switch back to ‘normal’, but boy was I wrong. It’s hard to pick up the pieces of my self-esteem and put them back together without getting any reassurance. And I’m unsure if we will ever find a solution for this issue, that I feel truly comfortable with.

-   There are a lot of additional, but comparatively minor issues, like him being really uncomfortable with leaving his apartment if he doesn’t have to, what limits our possibilities to experience anything new together, his dependency on smoking pot to halfway function in his everyday life, or his problems or interests taking up so much room, that I sometimes feel left out when we are together. But I think that’s already enough for my first post.

Writing this I realize that this really is a big pile of problems, and I ask myself once again if I don’t deserve someone, who has the capacity to support me to the same extend I am willing and able to support him and doesn’t carry this much baggage? I feel like I have to fight so much for things that should be a natural part of a loving relationship?

I don’t know anymore.

But even considering all those issues, he has so many positive qualities as well! He can be so loving and thoughtful, he is smart, handsome, incredibly creative and has such a passion for the things he loves. We share a lot of interests and attitudes, which is extremely important for me in a partner. And I am pretty sure that we would agree on future goals, once some of the obstacles are out of the way. But maybe that’s just wishful thinking.

Well, that's it for now... .thank you for reading and I'm happy for any kind of feedback!

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Yellowpearl]

  Hey Welcome. Glad you found us. Let me chime in and say I understand how the backtracking and dealing with these conflicted feelings must be so rough. I've come to learn one important key to maintaining a relationship with a person with BPD is trying not to take the dissociating and backtracking personally. Especially since I've come to hear about so many relationships where the BPD person goes back and forth between wanting to break up and for many that is the norm and how we cope and having a support system is vital. For you two it sounds like it isn't really the norm, and you guys came a long way so that makes it that much harder. It sounds like when he goes through something, he takes steps back. Those with BPD can tend to be triggered fairly easily and he may just be grasping at straws due to the stress/crisis just to protect himself while not getting how it's coming off to you.

He once told me, that he feels like sex is the only thing he has to offer and that he is good at.

This seems to be one of the main issues, in being on different pages in terms of sex. I think it's so great and important that you have understanding that he feels like sex is the only thing is can offer and that he told you this. As I understand, it looks like he is realizing he may have some unhealthy patterns and disordered thinking about sex, he's even calling it a sexual disorder. Many with BPD view themselves as flawed and so, they have less motivation to really come through in other supportive areas, as you mentioned he barely wants to leave the apartment. What about trying a shared activity that you two like, once he is not withdrawing anymore? Something hands-on, active and unrelated to sex to help bring that spark back.

What is communication like between you two currently, if any? I'm not sure your thoughts, do you want a committed relationship with him right now?

[once removed]

I finally found a community that might be able to relate to my struggles and help me cope with conflicting emotions concerning my relationship.

you sure did. id like to join Yellowpearl and say

But a week ago my frustration got the better of me while he was in a crisis

what happened?

[Purplex]

Thanks for your response yellowpearl!

I think you are spot on with your analysis of his behavior. I’m trying really hard to not take it personally but it’s so difficult to internalize this attitude without growing resentful again. I would say that I actually have a strong support system with friends and family, but since most of them have no experience with BPD, they find it hard to understand why I’m trying to cope and don’t leave instead. And a part of me is wondering about that too.
But I’m not ready to give up yet. I still want to fight for us because at heart we care so deeply for eachother and I refuse to believe that we can’t build on that. That’s part of the reason I reached out to you guys, to learn what else I can do to maybe get to that point instead of running away.

What is communication like between you two currently, if any? I'm not sure your thoughts, do you want a committed relationship with him right now?

Since I am studying 2 hours away from my hometown where he’s living, we text daily and I visit him nearly every weekend. After our fight last week, we kept texting, but much less then we used to, and we were both pretty standoffish. But it’s gradually getting better, and I really hope we can meet up next weekend and talk it out.

I have a history of relationships that drain me and make me feel unhappy and trapped, because I tend to stay committed even if I know it’s not healthy for me. That’s why I want to make sure this time, that I’m not committing to anything that makes me unhappy without a solution or at least improvement in sight. And I’m still unsure if this is possible for the sex issue, so my decision is mostly depending on that.

This seems to be one of the main issues, in being on different pages in terms of sex.

Are there any success stories of couples who got from this point to a relatively healthy sex-life, where both parties’ needs are met? I feel like this is such a severe problem and every post I’ve read so far seems to either conclude in no sex at all or the non-BPD sacrificing a lot. And neither is an option for me.
 
But I respect him so much for addressing these issues, I can’t imagine how hard this must be for him. He is so full of shame and guilt. And I don’t want him to feel bad. But I also don’t want me to feel bad. And just baby steps would make me more than happy. Maybe we can figure out a way for him to show me that he’s trying, without him feeling overburdened. Even talking about it on a regular basis would be a great start.   

I really like your idea of finding a shared activity we both enjoy, he recently picked up one of my favorite pc games and it was so much fun playing it together! I’m really into board games too, so maybe I’ll find one that he also likes  

[Purplex]

Thanks for the welcome once removed  

what happened?

We met up after partying at separate places. I was pretty drunk, he doesn’t drink but had a really awful evening, including minor self-harm. Two of my friends brought their new SOs and I was so frustrated that they could just go home and have a nice evening together while I had to endure his pain once again without anybody comforting me. So I snapped and basically accused him of making me feel miserable. I'm actually more of a happy drunk, but I tend to get a bit more assertive then unsual, and since I'm extra considerate with him in our everyday interactions he is scared of drunk me already. Thats why I usually avoid drinking in his presence. I feel so bad for letting that happen.

[Yellowpearl]

But I’m not ready to give up yet. I still want to fight for us because at heart we care so deeply for each other and I refuse to believe that we can’t build on that. That’s part of the reason I reached out to you guys, to learn what else I can do to maybe get to that point instead of running away.

There's a lot on this board that will be helpful as you learn more about what you can do to better things and I hope that you find it a supportive community here. I encourage you to look around the board at these relationship skills tools: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=329747.0, some of these can touch on the core issues of what you may be dealing with.

It's great that you guys are still in communication (even though it's infrequent). Even if things are going gradually right now, it looks like he wants to talk things out and you do too. Do you guys already have plans set for next weekend?

That’s why I want to make sure this time, that I’m not committing to anything that makes me unhappy without a solution or at least improvement in sight.

As you are searching for solution and improvement in this relationship, it can only get better right? Even if you decide it's not for you, you are actively searching for solace in this and that's a heck of a start.

And just baby steps would make me more than happy. Maybe we can figure out a way for him to show me that he’s trying, without him feeling overburdened. Even talking about it on a regular basis would be a great start.

Talking is through would show a lot of growth and effort, I agree. Maybe even gently telling him "you can talk to me about things, I'm here" "i really care about what you think and feel and hope we can continue to resolve xyz" Just making supportive statements like that (with some expectation) can go along way, so he feels maybe reassured that he can talk to you.

[Purplex]

I am so glad I found this community, I already feel a lot less alone and overwhelmed. Thank you so much for that! The tools offered here are really helpful, especially the Emotional Caretaker part resonated with me. I find it really hard to 'stay above it' and not get reactive when he pulls away. Given our history I have a lot of insecurities concerning jealousy and feeling inadequate, because he tends to cope by seeking validation with other women. He knows that he is hurting me by doing that and I don't think he's doing it anymore, but I can't be sure unless I ask him. But I'm too afraid of his answer and I also don't want to pressure him or come across as needy. Argh.

Do you guys already have plans set for next weekend?

When he told me how he felt about our argument he also said that he would be up to see me this weekend. I just texted him if he wanted that still, that I missed him and that I'd be happy to meet up. He answered that he maybe is free on sunday, and probably could confirm tomorrow. Normally he is more enthusiastic about seeing me and lets me in on what his plans are, so that we can schedule together. But now I'm left wondering what he's doing, if he is meeting up with somebody else over me and feel rejected again. I know this is stupid and childish and that I just should give him space, he didn't say no afterall so I should be content with that and avoid nagging him.

I'm also not sure what position I should take on his statement, that the relationship is off the table for now because of how i reacted that weekend. If we had been togehter already at that time, would he have ended it there? 
I understand that my behavior was unacceptable and that he is afraid of that happening again, but I don't think this consequence is appropriate or fair, given that I had no clue that this would be a dealbreaker for him. Before we went nc in summer, I told him exactly what I expected of him and I only decided to leave because he said he couldn't provide that. I never made a decision concerning our relationship without consulting him first and offering a solution. I just want to be treated the same and not just be confronted with accomplished facts.

Should I tell him this and ask him to revise his standpoint? Figure out a compromise? Is this the right time to be assertive?

Or should I just accept it and hope for him to make up his mind? But I am so sick of waiting for him to come around. I thought we were over that.

Talking is through would show a lot of growth and effort, I agree. Maybe even gently telling him "you can talk to me about things, I'm here" "i really care about what you think and feel and hope we can continue to resolve xyz" Just making supportive statements like that (with some expectation) can go along way, so he feels maybe reassured that he can talk to you.

Until now I avoided bringing up that topic, especially in person because I dont want to make him uncomfortable and I'm feeling insecure about it myself. When I did, it was mostly over text and I always tried to express my dissatisfaction in a very gentle way. He always took it well and we had some good conversations building on that. I just wish he would sometimes adress it himself, but you are right, it might also be helpful if I take a leap of faith and try to reassure him more often or maybe initiate conversation without needing validation myself.

[Yellowpearl]

Glad that you're finding this community and some of the tools here helpful! Not being reactive when he pulls away is key. Always validate in reactive situations.

I'm also not sure what position I should take on his statement, that the relationship is off the table for now because of how i reacted that weekend.

Once he has enough space and you guys get comfortable again with each other, it's more likely a relationship could be back on the table. Those with BPD tend to hurt inside over our reactions more than a non-BPD person would. Do you think after some time once things cool down, you could try bringing it up then? If you bring it up while he is still hurt and processing things, my worry is that it may not really get resolved in the proper way or things may go back to square one if another setback happens.

Should I tell him this and ask him to revise his standpoint? Figure out a compromise? Is this the right time to be assertive?

Or should I just accept it and hope for him to make up his mind? But I am so sick of waiting for him to come around. I thought we were over that.

You guys came a long way after no contact. Perhaps it could be helpful to focus on enjoying each other's company and enjoying talking to each other again. Maybe, try not to think of it as waiting for him to come around, but building a stronger foundation so things will be harder to break the next time he goes through something. Because to me, it doesn't sound like he doesn't want a relationship with you, it's more like he is getting over his hurt over how you reacted, and feelings change over time about wanting a relationship. When he made that statement to him feelings = facts (he's too hurt). But feelings change.

I just wish he would sometimes address it himself, but you are right, it might also be helpful if I take a leap of faith and try to reassure him more often or maybe initiate conversation without needing validation myself.

That's a good mindset, you're on point here.

[believer55]

Welcome!  You sound very eager to learn and "help" your friend. Sometimes we also need to practice acceptance of what is. He has a condition that will mean he will struggle with these behaviours and emotions daily and some days he will win and some days he will falter and if you want to have a relationship with him you will need to live through all these moments. The techniques offered help us to cope with the hurt and disappointments that can come our way. Who he is now is who you will be getting into a relationship with.

I do not meant to sound like a doom-sayer... .I just wish I had this mindset when falling for my BPDh. It is only 8 years later I am finally trying to practice acceptance and realise although he has improved in many ways, the traits and behaviours are part of him and our relationship. It is up to me to manage my side - not his.

B.

[Purplex]

 

Once he has enough space and you guys get comfortable again with each other, it's more likely a relationship could be back on the table. Those with BPD tend to hurt inside over our reactions more than a non-BPD person would. Do you think after some time once things cool down, you could try bringing it up then? If you bring it up while he is still hurt and processing things, my worry is that it may not really get resolved in the proper way or things may go back to square one if another setback happens.

Yes I think you are right, it might alienate him further if I try to rush things. I guess I'll apologize again and leave it with that for now. I'm sure that he will be open to talk about it after some time, I just need to be patient and give him space.
 

[Purplex]

Thanks for your response believer!
I understand what you are saying and it is very possible that I'm trying to change things that are unchangeble. Thats why I'm so hesitant to commit, because this attitude would make both of us unhappy, I know that.
There are a lot of things I'm well aware won't change and that I'm willing to or have accepted already, like his mood swings, suicidal thoughts, SVV or low frustration tolerance. I know all that can happen at any time and I have no influence on that. But I know from experience that I can cope with those behaviors without trying to change them.
But there are other things that concern me on a personal level, that I don't want to just accept. Of course I don't expect a complete turnaround on those issues or anything like that, but I would like for us BOTH to keep making at least baby steps to maybe someday meet in the middle.
Right now I'm trying to figure out if its even possible to work on these issues and if he is up for trying to adress them. Is this unreasonable?

[believer55]

I would like for us BOTH to keep making at least baby steps

That is the key... .this is what keeps me going. As long as I can baby steps in a positive direction (and yes for both of us) I think I will hang in there. We have taken a bit of a step backwards at the moment and it can be hard to keep positive... .but I look at how far he has come and am hopeful we will get back on track soon again.

Lots of positive reinforcement, and praising yourself too, is important and works wonders.

[Purplex]

That is the key... .this is what keeps me going. As long as I can baby steps in a positive direction (and yes for both of us) I think I will hang in there. We have taken a bit of a step backwards at the moment and it can be hard to keep positive... .but I look at how far he has come and am hopeful we will get back on track soon again.

Lots of positive reinforcement, and praising yourself too, is important and works wonders.

Exactly! As long as he is willing to fight and keep trying to make things better I just can't bring myself to abandon him, even if there are setbacks. I think this fighting spirit and the courage to self reflect is something that is lacking in many 'normal' relationships, at least from my experience. The starting point might be a different one, but nevertheless I think it's an advantage to be used to dealing with issues and establishing a way to communicate. And I am so proud of him, because I can see that we have come a long way already even if it's so hard sometimes.

[once removed]

hi Purplex, im trying to clarify the status of the relationship here:

-you became friends with benefits
-you both committed, but did not make it official
-you "broke up"... .was that when the two of you had no contact?
-at what point in there did the sex stop... .before or after the break?
-what does seeking validation from other women mean in this context?
-he has taken making it "official" off the table since the recent fight

do i have the timeline about right, and can you clarify some of those things for us?

[Purplex]

-you became friends with benefits

Yes, pretty much from the start.

-you both committed, but did not make it official

More or less. We knew that we had feelings for each other and that we both played an important part in each other’s lives, spent a lot of time together and talked a lot. I couldn’t imagine being with somebody else, so I was emotionally committed and hurt by him sleeping with and pursuing other women.

-you "broke up"... .was that when the two of you had no contact?

Yes. I asked him to be exclusive, he said he was too afraid of abandonment and the responsibility that comes with being together. Also, he felt like he couldn’t stop his promiscuous behaviors. He offered an open relationship, but since it seemed like he didn’t just want that to casually get off, but to seek intimacy elsewhere to protect himself from being fully committed, I declined. 

-at what point in there did the sex stop... .before or after the break?

Way before the break, or at least it was very infrequent, like once every 2 or 3 months or so. Somehow, I thought being exclusive would also fix things in that department, but I understand now that this issue is a lot bigger.

-what does seeking validation from other women mean in this context?

He is very eager to make friends and be liked, and since he feels like sex is a thing he is good at he uses it to connect on a superficial level and leave a good impression. That’s my interpretation at least. He once complained about not being able to sleep with a female friend anymore, because she got in a relationship with somebody else, what I found rather bizarre. He seems to be somehow possessive of the people he sleeps with.

-he has taken making it "official" off the table since the recent fight

Yes.

[once removed]

do you think hes dangling the possibility of officiality/exclusivity and yanking it away a bit?

[Purplex]

do you think hes dangling the possibility of officiality/exclusivity and yanking it away a bit?

Yes that's very likely. I think in addition to his fear of abandonment he might be afraid that this relationship wont last very long. His longest relationship only lasted 6 months and he is very embarrassed by that.
He told me that with me he felt like he was going through so many relationship stages in such a short time. I'm not completely sure what he meant by that though... .

I'm also a bit baffled that his therapist supported his decision to withdraw from beeing official. But I guess she wants him to learn to set boundaries and stand up for himself and I appreciate that. It just feels strange to be the guinea pig 

[once removed]

i dont necessarily mean consciously, or even maliciously. it just reads that way.

what if an exclusive relationship cant/wont happen? whats your limit?

[Purplex]

what if an exclusive relationship cant/wont happen? whats your limit?

That's what I'm asking myself all the time. I am actually quite optimistic about it right now, he is already reaching out a bit more. We are back to wishing each other good morning and good night over text like we used to. That was something he initiated early on and is extremely helpful to stay in touch and reduce insecurities on both ends.
But If he wont change his mind about being exclusive in the forseeable future, I think that would be a hard limit for me. The recurrent feelings of insecurity and inadequacy would set me back in other parts of my life and the happy times sadly cant make up for that. This price is too hight to pay. I broke up once because of that and I will do it again for my own sake, even if it rips my heart.

[once removed]

so hows it going today? have things blown over or been discussed?