Am I in love with a disorder - part 2

[Steppingforward]

Thanks onceremoved for the links I will certainly have a look.

I will start more with the listening, just hard when you got a lot of questions in your own heart. But I do tend to go on and I have stopped that now.

I have kinda put all my cards on the table and that’s my nature but I will try and hold off from doing this. I think I do this outmy own anxiety to not be misunderstood by her.

I’m trying to get stronger myself and raise my own self esteem and confidence and it’s hard when your with someone who pushes and pulls multiple times a day.

I have tried not to talk about her when it comes to what I’m learning. I have realised that if you talk more about how it’s helping me and not making it about her disorder helps.

In other words I would say like last night; that it has opened my eyes and how every case I read was a unique person and how you can’t label them with a fit all. I explained how the splitting occurs and how she only sees me in a negative light.

She really took to this and said that explains how she feels and even asked me to write it down so she can show her therapist as this is what she wants to work on.

We had a deep honest conversation and she admitted she is scared of being labelled as crazy especially when she sees the other girls in mentalisation therapy. She is scared as she sees them and how crazy they appear  (her words not mine) but at the same time with the same thoughts she has whichfreaks her out.

I will let you know how it goes and in the meantime I will go into other posts.

Can I reply with my own thoughts on these? Or is it more for me to just read about others?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Steppingforward]

I’m losing my mind. She’s switched again... .

I don’t know what happened, she’s not answering my calls ( I’m only calling twice). I’m just getting sick of being treated this way. It’s really really effecting me. Whereas before she would panic and call me within seconds of her tantrums it’s suddenly becomes complete silence or  coldness and resentment.

She does not consider her child’s well feelings let alone mine. I don’t want to do this but I can’t carry on like this.

5 years. 5 years of idealisation or complete paranoia, bad tantrums, drug taking, hateful thoughts, embarrassing public moments,  watching her emotionally abuse her child. And 5 years of me turning the other cheek or excusing her and picking up the pieces of  not only her feelings  but her child’s as well. I can’t be everything that holds this relationship together. I can’t be both a partner and a parent to her because that’s how this feels.

Not sure if I regressed all this thoughts but they are certainly coming back to me in force. I thought my love for her would be enough.

But I’m starting to realise that our relationship is toxic and always has been. I feel she never truly loved me and that she has been blindly putting me on a pedestal as her saviour and now that I have fallen there is nothing but hate for me. Almost as if I tricked her.

I may have to end this relationship. I’m done, I’m stressed, depressed, malnourished and I don’t see how I can carry on like this.

This will be the hardest thing I ever done as my feeling for her are so strong. I know I may regret the decision for years to come. I know it will take a while to discover who iam as I’ve forgotten. Life was happier after I met her as I’m in love which is obviously a sign that before I met her I was lonely.

I’m not asking for an answer. I don’t hate her or even resent her funnily enough. I know this is not her fault, my emotions effect me let alone what I must be like for her so her actions as sad as it is can be blamed on them.

Basically for me, she is not the person I thought she was. So how can I be with her anymore? She will probably jump into another relationship if she hasn’t already started one. I need to let that go but I do just wish she realises this will keep happening until she’s serious about her treatment. She needs to love herself before she can love another.

Strange thing is, for different reasons to hers, I too need to start loving myself as Ive loved others.

[once removed]

I’m losing my mind. She’s switched again... .

try to stay centered here, Sf. breathe. i did warn you that there might be some confusion following the conversation the two of you had. things were not likely to go back to normal over night.

I don’t know what happened, she’s not answering my calls

shes taking some more space. likely, the reasons she was taking it previously have not disappeared. possibly, shes also taking time to reflect on the conversation the two of you had. dont chase.

try not to get caught up in these cycles, whether things are going extremely well, or extremely badly. see them for what they are. consistency on your end is key here.

Can I reply with my own thoughts on these? Or is it more for me to just read about others?

this is a peer to peer support group. members in all stages and circumstances support each other. there are lots of members in similar situations, and it would help you, and help them to work together.

[Steppingforward]

Sorry for the rant earlier.

Just feel so drained and empty. I can’t seem to switch her off my mind. It’s just been such a complete switch in her that it’s tocked me to my core.

You did say there would be confusion but how can I be consistent when she’s like this? She demanded all my focus attention and love on her and now it’s like it’s meaningless to her and she wants space and the opposite.

I saw her for only 2 hours yesterday. She changed the plan for the day which was to spend some nice time watching movies with her child at home.

Instead she arranged for her friend to stay the night. I was feeling down being by myself abd went for a drive and I’m not saying it was unintentional but I found myself driving past our place. I had already called her twice during the drive and she didn’t answer. As I drive past our house I see her walking in the front door.

5 min later she called out of breath. I told her I’m just driving. She asked if I was ok and was being well, pleasant. I asked if she just came in as she sounded out of breath. She went cold and said no she been home all evening.

She had lied and I assume her friend was there to babysit her child in our house where I’m not welcome anymore.

It’s not the first time in recent weeks where she’s been having sleepovers at this female friends or viceversa (a friend who I don’t know well and has suddenly appeared after 5 years).

I’m at my wits end. Do I confront her or Do I just bury it like all the other suspicious moments? How do I confront her?

[once removed]

I’m at my wits end. Do I confront her or Do I just bury it like all the other suspicious moments? How do I confront her?

dont act out of anxiety. and dont bury it.

see it for what it is, in the bigger picture, context of your relationship.

she wants space. be strong enough to give it to her, and in fact, take it for yourself.

can you do that?

[Steppingforward]

I’m not sure if I could go on a break and be able to simply go back when she’s ready. She not sure how she feels about me but says she loves me?

I’m feeling like it needs to end as the person I fell in love with is was never hat person to begin with. I said it many times during the 5 years that it felt like if she didn’t have these issues (mentally and financially) she would not choose me.

I think I was right in this gut instinct. I hope she continues getting help and works towards achieving a stable life. I will offer to support her child only but that I don’t want any contact from her. I need this to heal from this myself but I don’t want to abandon her child as he sees me as a Dad and I do love him.

Bottom line is she has split me after years of idealisation and devaluation. I know she does not truly care and love me the same as I care and love her. It’s a 1 way relationship with me giving and her taking. It took her to split me to realise it despite the fact it was there in front of me all along.

This is just how MY relationship is going and every person with this disorder is unique, so for anyone reading this in a similar situation please realise this but follow your heart and your brain. Stop considering your own emotional frailty of being alone or being the fixer like I did as you would only be an enabler and hurt yourself.  Every person is unique and I had some intense hurtful but also wonderful years. But don’t leave it till you are a shell of a person. No matter what you do look after yourself first. If there is anything  I learned from this is that.

All I want to focus on now is detaching from her and building my personal life, self esteem and confidence back. I may need help and advice on doing this

I just wanted to again say thank you. Thank you for all your words and encouragement. You were a shining light in what was utter darkness.

[once removed]

Steppingforward, i can more than appreciate that her back and forth, hot and cold, mostly cold behavior is very hurtful. ive been in a similar position, and it drove me nuts.

i would ask, what if she were to apologize, turn it on hot again, and all was well for the next month?

you may want to think this through. you may conclude that its best to exit this relationship, but dont do so reactively.

whats your next move?

[Steppingforward]

Thanks Onceremoved it’s comforting to talk to someone who has been through this.

If she apologised and turned it hot again in my head I’ll be thinking this is not right and it will happen again but realistically I would be ecstatic I have her back. But that would be selfish.

I truly want her to love herself and resolve her issues by learning skills to cope with her emotions and thoughts. If she still loves me then then yes.

I certainly prefer the way it was before to this but now that I’ve educated myself and realised my own short comings I would not want it to go back to the way it was before.

 I do see the person underneath and I love that person. Our only hope right now is that she understands this and gets serious with learning the tools to deal with her emotions.

Am I right here? I read that because her childhood abuse/trauma led to her creating defence mechanism (like splitting)  to cope while growing up. As these are hot wired after so many decades of being untreated the only way she would resolve these issues is by coming to terms with the past and learning new skills to deal with her emotions in the present.  But first she needs to acknowledge she has a problem.

Can it and how often with therapy does this improve things? Will it be months? years? Decades? Or will it always be a constant struggle for her?

With these and about a thousand more thoughts going through my head I don’t know what my next move is. It’s like playing two games of chess backwards!

My friend I know I love her and care about her deeply and I have never felt this way about anyone before. I never cared too much for the idealisation before so I don’t want that back. I just want her to look inside my head and know how I feel so she is sure of me and I; to be honest, wish I could do the same and know how she feels.

Today has been a change coincidently. She asked me to come round so I went. Apart from a couple of outbursts to her child for talking back (reaction was extreme as usual) we were fine and even had each other laughing and with her child which hasn’t happened for a while. It felt good that she seemed to have relaxed. I didn’t bring anything up until she did and even then I more listened. I still went to back my temp accommodation after but that was both our choices. I told her and she agreed that we would take it slow.

Again my thoughts are is this just part of the cycle again and it will inevitably come back round again.

So my next move is to just see what happens. At the moment it’s miserable with her or miserable without her so hopefully when the cycle DOES come round I’ll be better  equipped to deal with it. 

Which is why your support has been invaluable. In the New year my finances get a lot better as I would of cleared her debts (she had substantial ones) and I will be definitely supporting. 

[once removed]

Again my thoughts are is this just part of the cycle again and it will inevitably come back round again.

the two of you are separated, Sf. by nature, things are pretty distant, and tentative. things arent going to be hot and passionate, but everything sounds good when the two of you are together, and there is communication is good in those moments. theres a lot to work with there.

So my next move is to just see what happens. At the moment it’s miserable with her or miserable without her so hopefully when the cycle DOES come round I’ll be better  equipped to deal with it

this is just riding the cycles, hoping for improvement, and that should not be your next move. to get this thing off the ground, its going to take a vision, and emotional leadership in guiding this relationship in the direction you want to see it go (within realistic reason).

it is good, however, that you sought out some feedback when things were tough... .and make no mistake, things will likely not heat up tomorrow.

i might follow up on last night with something warm, fun, and upbeat, about the time the two of you had together. it can be a text... .a gift right now might send a message of obligation, but id build on this (she may take to it or not, its okay if she doesnt). got any ideas?

Am I right here? I read that because her childhood abuse/trauma led to her creating defence mechanism (like splitting)  to cope while growing up. As these are hot wired after so many decades of being untreated the only way she would resolve these issues is by coming to terms with the past and learning new skills to deal with her emotions in the present.  But first she needs to acknowledge she has a problem.

Can it and how often with therapy does this improve things? Will it be months? years? Decades? Or will it always be a constant struggle for her?

BPD is a spectrum disorder that runs the gamut between very high and very low (very low can still make for a difficult person). your partner, with the suicide threats and cutting, is reasonably high on the spectrum (probably higher than my ex for example), though its hard to say how high, and it doesnt necessarily make the difference in whether your relationship can work so much as whether the two of you have "the right stuff" that can overcome and resolve conflict, how far the relationship has or hasnt broken down, the commitment either of you have to the relationship, and whether or not through changing your approach, learning the tools, learning to cope, you can personally find this relationship fulfilling.

[Steppingforward]

Yes the way things are you could call us as being separated by its nature. When she is calm and nothing has triggered her we are amazing together. I agree that we can work with what we have.

I understand what you mean by saying that I’m just hoping for improvement by riding the cycles. What I meant was that I feel I can try what you said (regarding emotional leadership) and not expect a change straight away and run away as I’m miserable with or without her. I really don’t want our relationship to go back like before, that wasn’t stable. Or even for it to go back to the idealisation as that wasn’t real (and im still ashamed that I lapped it up).

I want a solid stable relationship with her.

In terms of ideas I have not brought anything up in conversation and just did what you said and kept it light and fun. I did not buy her a gift as I didn’t want her to feel engulfed again. You think I should start treating her like we first met? Wouldn’t that push her away?

I only got one more complication now and I appreciate the explanation re the spectrum levels. But she told me something new last night regarding her condition. She said she was diagnosed with not only BPD but also with PTSD and traits of Npd. I tried to read up on it (scary) but I enended up more confused, what does that even all mean? She said she didn’t want to tell as she thought I would run and she is scared if she is diagnosed as psychopathic she will then tell me to run. Is this even a thing? BPD, ptsd and traits of npd?

[once removed]

You think I should start treating her like we first met? Wouldn’t that push her away?

im saying try to build on the good times with a little romance, or a little fun, or both. dont over do it, and certainly if shes not receptive, be cool, back off. that may go out the window right now, with this new revelation.

I tried to read up on it (scary) but I enended up more confused, what does that even all mean? She said she didn’t want to tell as she thought I would run and she is scared if she is diagnosed as psychopathic she will then tell me to run. Is this even a thing? BPD, ptsd and traits of npd?

BPD is often comorbid with other disorders... .personality disorders, impulse disorders, mood disorders, etc. its hard to say how the storm of it all applies to your partner. there is more information about comorbid disorders/behaviors in our Learning Center (check out page 2): https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?board=45.0;sort=subject

the most useful part of this information is that she trusted you to enough to tell you, and you know that she has a great deal going on.

it wont change anything about what you know of her, but it may, especially in the short term, throw a big wrench in your efforts to connect with her. this is a really significant revelation, there is a ton of stigma around these disorders, and she is running scared, thinking shes psychotic, that you need to run, that shes a bad/crazy person. this is going to require serious patience and strength on your end. she may push you away out of fear for herself, out of fear for you, out of belief that she is evil/bad, out of the belief that no one would want anything to do with her, she might even think that theres something wrong with you for wanting to be with her. this is a storm you will have to ride out with strength, if you are up for that. it could also be the start of her getting some major help. there is hope here, but its going to test you, her, and your relationship. are you up for that? think hard, and dont take this lightly.

the next time she brings it up, if she does, you might try asking her how you can best support her.

[Steppingforward]

I understand what you mean, try but gently.

I’m not sure if I’m strong enough from what I’ve read. Like you said there is a lot of stigma out there and it all says to run. But your right it doesn’t change the person she is. I mean when she rages she does have no empathy or idea of the damage her words do. When she’s not she does show empathy to me and her child. It can last only a moment but how can a person with npd show that?

Am I up for this? I don’t know.

Today she turned in the morning. She was running late despite the fact I called her to wake up. When she called me an hour and half after she should of taken her child to school she screamed st me that she’s late and still taking her child as she didn’t sleep all night...

I calmly said ok call me when you get a chance and that she must be so tired from not sleeping to be this late. This seemed to calm her down for a second before she shouted she can’t walk and talk at the same time as look after her child (almost as if this should of crossed my mind) and she needed to go.

Again I calmly said ok I’m supposed to be working right now and bye.

At my lunch she was ok I spoke about some funny moments at work which made her laugh. On way home (as she has suddenly insisted we talk throughout my lunch and journeys again) she was angry again. Wouldn’t say why and I didn’t pry.

Then she confessed that she hasn’t had her tablets in days as she run out. I only asked if she was planning on getting more when she raged again. Basically say how hard it is for her to remember to do things or have the time (she’s been at her friends smoking weed all day for the last three days). And how I don’t care that this is going to effect her badly now.

I can’t remember the name of the tablets, I think mirtazapine? Is this bad that she suddenly stopped? She says she will get them tomorrow.

[once removed]

It can last only a moment but how can a person with npd show that?

you might still be getting junk psychology from the internet Sf 

people with BPD are capable of empathy. so are people with NPD.

empathy is commonly confused with sympathy. empathy is the ability to understand another persons perspective, and why they have it. she may have limited, or what we might call immature empathy. anyone in a dysregulated state, is certainly going to be limited in their capacity to empathize.

you can learn more about empathy, and empathy levels here: https://bpdfamily.com/content/listen-with-empathy

I can’t remember the name of the tablets, I think mirtazapine? Is this bad that she suddenly stopped? She says she will get them tomorrow.

im no doctor, though generally suddenly stopping any drug is not good.

i think what youre talking about, and experienced is the fact that shes under tremendous stress, and people with this (or these) disorders, by nature do not do stress well.

[Steppingforward]

Hey it’s been a good week since.

It’s been a whirlwind of emotions. Since she stopped taking her tablets her anxiety is back and she is worried all the time I’m leaving her. Erm her old self seems to be returning too in terms of her feelings for me. She’s saying how much she loves me wants to be with me.

Its nice

I’m petrified though.

Im worried that when she was taking the tablets although she split me her life seemed to be getting better. She was sleeping properly, she was more motivated, house was cleaner etc. Everything I wanted for her except her splitting of me. So I’m thinking now is she only feeling like this for me because of her fears and emotions returning?

She said she wants to go back on them and I truly truly want her to feel better even if it means her realising that I may not be who she wants me in the end.

Im trying not to react and show my fears. I’m trying to focus on myself as well as being strong for her. I have to realise that when she rages (which she will if not tomorrow may be the next or whatever) shes not actually talking to me but to her past. Thinking like that helps me remain calm.

I hope she does not go back to being cold and heartless again though. I can handle the rages like I said but not sure if I can go through that again.

[once removed]

whats going on now?

[Steppingforward]

I don’t actually know what going on now.

She’s not the same person for 3 months now. I told her how I feel in an SET way. It went well she acknowledged that she does not know how she feels. Said that she knows she loves me but her mind is going crazy and she does not know why she is so cold to me.

I accepted her feelings and asked her what she needed from me. She said she does not want to break up but maybe go on a break but she could not last a day (me neither) without contact. I told her would me just giving her space help. Not a break but I’ll continue living away still support her and see each other when she wants. She said she’s not sure and just wants to feel the same way she did before and for us to carry on like before.

I did reply that it was not healthy before
And I want us to be stronger than before. She agreed. It’s atill hurts a lot though as I have a lot of internal anxieties and privately I feel depressed.

I do feel  like I have self reflected a lot these last three months though. I do feel better in a sense I have accepted the situation. I have educated myself on not only her problems but my own as well.

I’m not co dependant per se. I have traits of co dependency, even a couple of BPD traits that I have identified. I have realised everyone does as they are human traits and emotions. Just that I can deal with them and have developed skills to deal with emotions. They don’t always lead me. Hers is the opposite she never had a loving upbringing like me. She never developed that side of her and instead developed this defence mechanism.

I get all that now (I think), and I know this is my choice. She is who she is. So I need to take responsibility for my self and my relationship and work on it.

She getting better with therapy, and I hope she continues and in the end she still loves me. I know that her feelings have changed whether for the better for our relationship is inconsequential as our relationship was getting more and more toxic. I’ve accepted that I was part of the reason for that toxicity. I need to get over that shame too.

This is about me. My life and my choice who I share it with. Looking at it like that helps.

[once removed]

She’s not the same person for 3 months now. I told her how I feel in an SET way. It went well she acknowledged that she does not know how she feels. Said that she knows she loves me but her mind is going crazy and she does not know why she is so cold to me.

remember... .

she got huge, life changing news, and is dealing with a lot of shame and stigma, and trying to process it all. she has a lot on her plate, and probably cant be very emotionally available in a relationship right now.

its a fragile state to be in. if you push too much, things might crack. right now, she needs to be able to lean on you and see you as a source of strength... .for the time being, i dont think its realistic to expect that out of her.

what do you think?