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Author Topic: Grieving for what my ex went through  (Read 397 times)
JNChell
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« on: December 15, 2018, 09:47:41 AM »

I showed up here feeling like I was backed into a corner. The focus was on me and I was placing a lot of blame on my ex. I wasn’t in a place where I could step away and look at everything. I could somewhat look at myself, but nowhere near the way that I can now.

I feel so badly for my ex. This feeling has come on suddenly, so I brought the feeling here instead of to her. She went through so much as a child.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=331395.0

I’m feeling sad about things and I’m questioning. I’m angry at her parents. I wonder if we were both healthy adults if we’d ever even connected. Then, I think about our S4. He wouldn’t be here eating scrambled eggs if we hadn’t.

These are the times that I need to practice Radical Acceptance.

My ex is closer with her neglectors than she ever was with me. I could never grasp why. She told me enough to activate the white knight, rescuer in me, the table eventually turned.

Knowing and acceptance has helped, but there is still a pull. She’s the mother of our child. I think that that is the hardest aspect to overcome.
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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2018, 10:33:06 AM »

It sounds like you are in a new stage of healing. When we truly have compassion for those who hurt us, than we have compassion for ourselves as well, and will not be as easily hurt when someone mistreats us. It is so painful to realize the pain an ex is in, how they have suffered and continue to do so, yet we can not help them. It sounds like you wish you could have been more compassionate at times, and I think many of us feel this way. The further we are along in our own healing, the more we are able to truly feel badly for someone who is acting badly, and be compassionate. Knowing what you feel now, what things would you have done differently with her, and do you now do differently in difficult interactions with others? How does this awareness change how you are interacting with the mother of your child? What do you share with your child about his mother's behaviors?
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JNChell
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« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2018, 06:58:27 AM »

Thanks, zachira. I really appreciate your input. Maybe I am at a new stage in my healing. I hadn’t looked at it from that angle until reading what you’ve said. I’ve been consumed with anger, resentment and fear for quite a while. Perhaps I’m coming out of that now.

It is so painful to realize the pain an ex is in, how they have suffered and continue to do so, yet we can not help them.

We couldn’t help each other. We both have problems to work through. I don’t know how she is currently handling her stuff. I’m working hard on mine. Therapy and this support group. I’m very aware of myself and I won’t stop this work. It’s been slow, but I’m getting better.

Knowing what you feel now, what things would you have done differently with her, and do you now do differently in difficult interactions with others?

I would’ve been much more patient and much less reactive. I didn’t realize how reactive I am. I learned this about myself through a diagnosis and therapy.

I try very hard on a daily basis to do things differently. Empathetic listening has been a real game changer. I do this genuinely when it registers in the moment. It’s not a real habit yet, but I’m practicing. 

I wish that I would’ve had this community to lean on when I was still with S4’s mom. Maybe I could’ve salvaged our relationship and little family.

How does this awareness change how you are interacting with the mother of your child? What do you share with your child about his mother's behaviors?

I don’t share anything with S4 about his mother’s behaviors. The most common thing that I say to him about his mom is that she loves him and she misses him.

We don’t really interact. Things are currently set up so that we don’t have to see each other. But, not having to interact with her has allowed me to decompress to a certain degree.

I just wish that she would recognize her childhood. She blows it off like nothing. If she could do that, maybe we would have some ground to walk on.
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« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2018, 09:32:17 AM »

Always good to hear your thoughts and feelings, especially since you are such a caring father. I don't think there is anything you could have done to salvage your relationship with your child's mother. It is so hard to accept that they will not likely ever change, especially when the person with BPD is the mother of your child, and you worry about how his mother's behaviors affect him right now and in the future. It seems that your self esteem has improved to the point that most of the time you probably feel compassion for people who act badly, and only wish the best for them, including your son's mother. This is great role modeling for your son, though there is a fine line between encouraging him to be compassionate with his mother while not turning him into her caretaker, and continuing to support him in becoming a healthy separate person from her.  Do you notice yourself being more gentle and compassionate with yourself and others, as you come to grips with all that has happened with your former wife and child? It is important to let your son know that his mother's inexplicable behaviors have nothing to do with him. Children often think it is their fault and they are defective when their parent with BPD acts out. What advice do you have for fathers that have been or are in similar situations to yours?
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« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2018, 10:13:25 AM »

zachita, your words have arrived at a very opportune time. My mind has felt a little scrambled lately, in a good way, and your insight is grounding.

Do you notice yourself being more gentle and compassionate with yourself and others, as you come to grips with all that has happened with your former wife and child?

We weren’t married, but yes, I am seeing this in day to day life. I’m practicing to be kind to myself. This has allowed me to be more kind and understanding of others. Learning to listen to myself and others has been paramount.

What advice do you have for fathers that have been or are in similar situations to yours?

The child/children come first. There is no wiggle room here. Know or learn how to validate correctly. Talk to them like a person, not a child. Pay attention. Lastly, just love them.
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« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2018, 11:23:49 AM »

With all you have been through and are dealing with right now,  you are in the process of being the best person and father you can be. I sometimes feel grateful for being the scapegoat of my family, because I see that my mother and siblings with BPD and NPD will never be able to feel the joy that I feel because they really do not have any compassion for themselves or others, and just don't have the capacity to heal. So sad to see and wish things could be different. You can be very proud of what you are able to do. What do you think  are your best traits that have allowed you to change and grow?
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« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2018, 12:42:45 PM »

Thanks, z. I was the scapegoat in my family dynamic as well. I think that this ties into your question.

I sometimes feel grateful for being the scapegoat of my family, because I see that my mother and siblings with BPD and NPD will never be able to feel the joy that I feel because they really do not have any compassion for themselves or others, and just don't have the capacity to heal.

I’ve read several times, many times here, that the scapegoat is targeted because of their strength. I’m learning and realizing that pwPD’s have a need to have the closest people to them be beneath them. I still don’t have a tight grasp on why, but I recognize and understand that it’s true.

I’m sorry that your upbringing was riddled with this stuff. I want you to know that I empathize with you. We were robbed of a decent childhood. I think a lot of my journey has been trying to gift myself the childhood that I didn’t have. It has been a good repetitive cycle of hurt and uncertainty. I finally made the decision to look at myself. It’s the best decision I’ve ever made.

What do you think  are your best traits that have allowed you to change and grow?

Resilience has been a big factor, but that factor has hit nearly empty on the fuel gauge.  A strong sense of who I am also plays in. This is a tough question, z.  My best traits?

I’m honest. I’m able to see myself. I’m enthusiastic about moving past this stuff. I realize that I’ve I’ve been out of line. I’m virtuous. I’m having a hard time answering your question,
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« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2018, 01:43:58 PM »

Being honest and self awareness are probably the key traits that allow us to survive a deprived childhood and to later heal from all the abuse. My sister was the golden child, and it seems she has it all: a brilliant scholar, wealthy, wonderful husband, yet she gets angry when anybody pays the slightest attention to me. So maybe you find it hard to list your best traits, and the list is not long, yet you have what is most important and the foundation for true happiness and success in life: You are honest, resilient, and willing to do the hard work to get your life back on track. So many people just don't have the ability to take a look at how they are contributing to their own unhappiness, so what does it matter if they have other outstanding characteristics. How were you the scapegoat, and how does that affect you now?
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« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2018, 03:53:20 PM »

The hard questions, z.   My sister, with whom I have a close relationship with, was the golden child. She was a gifted kid and it was nurtured by our mom. She was shown off by my mom. I didn’t get that kind of admiration. When I did, it was related to sports and she got so loud. It was embarrassing at games. Maybe she was doing the best that she could. I get that. But I also have to throw on the on the table my shaking and fluttering heart. My parents screwed me up. I’m good with it, but I’m not happy about having to clean up the mess.
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« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2018, 04:06:27 PM »

You are lucky to have a good relationship with your sister. Oftentimes the golden child and scapegoat end up being bitter enemies. Having to clean up the mess is frustrating because it never really completely ends though we can find happiness and peace most of the time, if we truly face our demons. I think having a child and being a great parent to that child is one path of healing. Another path is to have a great relationship with a significant other, which is something you would possibly like a bit farther down the road. The only way to keep the demons at bay is to keep exploring the feelings so they can never overwhelm you in the ways they have in the past. So many times we want to shut down the feelings, yet that only makes things worse in the long run, as the feelings pile up.
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« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2018, 04:12:04 PM »

I didn’t fully answer your question. Being the scapegoat has been a discovery that affects me worse in my forties than it did in real time. It was a total gut punch to my self esteem.

How are you recovering from pwBPD/NPD.? I’ve experienced this as well, I think. My dad was a lunatic.
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« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2018, 04:47:53 PM »

Discovering you are the scapegoat is indeed painful, and probably something that takes a long time to fully process because it hurts too much and there is so much anger. I recently realized in the last year, that my mother and siblings with BPD and NPD blame me for every thing that goes wrong, and talk between themselves and others about what  a horrible human being I am. They have stepped up their mistreatment of me as I have gotten better at setting healthy boundaries with them, and stopped participating as much as possible in the toxic family dynamics. Last year they kicked me out of the family Christmas celebration for no apparent reason, and they have accelerated their mistreatment of me this past year, as I have withdrawn from the meaningless family fights and unmerited accusations. I went traveling for 6 weeks this Fall and only contacted them by email and postcards. My trip was to an underdeveloped country, and it was hell on wheels. Now that I am back, I just feel I can do whatever I seek to do. I have been in therapy for years, and EMDR is the therapy that was the most helpful. It takes time to heal, and you just got to keep working at it, as the painful memories and emotions surface. I try to meditate from 30-60 minutes a day, observing my feelings as they come and go. That way no feeling becomes too strong, and I am less overwhelmed when the next round of toxic family behaviors surface. Keep doing all that you are doing, and feel those feelings. As time goes on, you will feel more joy and be at peace with yourself, though being abused in childhood is something we need to take time to grieve on a regular basis, because there is always going to be sadness and anger about being mistreated by our parents who are supposed to love and cherish us. I am sorry this is such a long post. Did I answer your question?
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JNChell
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« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2018, 05:08:56 PM »

zachira, I am so sorry. Yes, you answered my question. I’m really feeling for you right now. My parents died about 9 years ago. I’m not dealing with the issues that you have to deal with. When they died they were both so sick so all of the attention was on them.

I held my abusers hand as she died. I put headphones on my dads ears on the last night that he lived.

They were both monsters. For whatever reason I wanted them to pass in peace.
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« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2018, 07:41:37 PM »

You wanted them to pass in peace because of the kind of person you are. We are just like our abusers if we take on their mean behaviors. Compassion is the opposite of cruelty.
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« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2018, 11:54:16 PM »

Excerpt
The hard questions, z.  Being cool (click to insert in post) My sister, with whom I have a close relationship with, was the golden child. She was a gifted kid and it was nurtured by our mom. She was shown off by my mom. I didn’t get that kind of admiration. When I did, it was related to sports and she got so loud. It was embarrassing at games. Maybe she was doing the best that she could. I get that. But I also have to throw on the on the table my shaking and fluttering heart. My parents screwed me up. I’m good with it, but I’m not happy about having to clean up the mess.

I'm curious about this post... .mostly the last half.  It's not a great feeling like being less than another sibling... .it's not healthy to come from any parent... .which I think you understand. 

And yes, the part about acknowledging this in your 40's... .I get that, because that's where I was when I began to understand. 
Feeling bad for my ex were feelings I  certainly had to navigate, but I ultimately came to understand her illness was not my cross to bear.  I couldn't fix it, and it would kill me if I continued to try.   

It's not your cross to bear either, simply navigating it to the best of your ability for you and your child seems the way from what I have taken from your situation.     
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JNChell
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« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2018, 09:35:32 PM »

drained1996. I see what you’re saying. I understand that it’s not my cross to bare. It’s simply where I’m at with everything. We share a child. I comforted her the best that I could while she was in labor. A bond was formed for me. Love.

I feel for my ex for what she went through. I can truly empathize with her and her childhood. The anger and resentment are beginning to check out. It’s running it’s course. I appreciate your input, but I’m confident in the path that I’m on. I don’t wear her feelings anymore, but I feel no shame in feeling sympathy and empathy for the mother of my child as my anger and resentment towards her melts away. I was no angel in our situation.

I’m processing things as they arrive. Right now, I feel for my ex.
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« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2018, 07:15:22 AM »

JNChell, you certainly seem like you are on the right path and doing it very mindfully. 
I empathize with the fact you're having to dig through your FOO in order to move forward, learn and heal yourself.  That's not an easy task, but a necessity in understanding why we are where we are in life.   
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JNChell
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« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2018, 08:42:20 AM »

Hey drained1996. You make a solid point.

a necessity in understanding why we are where we are in life.   

I spend a lot of time on the PSI (parent, sibling, inlaw) board these days. I’ve been exploring and processing a lot of what you’ve spoken about here. I think that your insight would be helpful on that board. Care to explore?
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« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2018, 10:45:57 PM »

drained1996. I see what you’re saying. I understand that it’s not my cross to bare. It’s simply where I’m at with everything. We share a child. I comforted her the best that I could while she was in labor. A bond was formed for me. Love.

I did that.  Twice.  Yet she went off the rails when D6 was 1, S8 was 3, and left me for another guy.  I heard no end of she growing up in a violent household with a father who was a serial cheater. 

When D had just turned 3, she confessed to our former couples' counselor that she was molested by her maternal grandfather.  I had always suspected this. 

When we got back to her home after the session,  because I was picking up the kids from her,  I told her that I was sorry that he did that.  She said, "that's what I like about you,  that you always protect me," as we went upstairs to get my kids from her fiancee, the young stud she left me for. 

I felt both validated and resentful.  And I was also sincere.

I felt that it was ok to feel both,  but such feelings didn't distract me from doing what was necessary for my kids.  I focus on those who really need me,  and my ex doesn't, even if she telegraphs that she still does sometimes. 
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JNChell
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« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2018, 12:31:11 AM »

Resentment and validation. I’ve never tied the two together before, but it fits. I’m watching a show called Impratical Jokers at my buddy’s house. I’ve been laughing all night. My kiddo is asleep beside me. It’s been a good Christmas.

Turkish, I haven’t really slept in a few days. Thanks for pointing out what you have. The kids come first.

I focus on those that really need me.

I need to shift my focus.
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« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2018, 12:44:12 AM »

You,  your son and his mom were your primary family.  Now it's just you and your son with she in obit.  Focus on your primary family. 
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« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2018, 01:43:37 AM »

*I feel so badly for my ex. This feeling has come on suddenly, so I brought the feeling here instead of to her. She went through so much as a child.

*I’m feeling sad about things and I’m questioning. I’m angry at her parents.

*My ex is closer with her neglectors (abusers) than she ever was with me. I could never grasp why.

This how I felt for many years, during my first marriage, my first wife was a CSA victim,  age five-seven to about twelve.

I grew to absolutely hate her mother for "allowing it to happen"... .

And my ex wife always wanted to be "close to home", I never understood this, why did she want to be so close to those that allowed her to be so grievously harmed as a child.

All ancient history now, we divorced in 2006, and I became a single Dad... .she (exwife) split from the whole f'ing program, she dropped off the radar for two solid years before she resurfaced... .and it was another two years downrange after that before our kids would even talk to her... .they were seventeen and eighteen by then... .

Now, in my current marriage which is all but on hold, ie' over, we are now separated... .due to her suspected BPD... .now what causes W#2 to be the way she is now... .I think I know enough to know it was childhood trauma, yes... .and guess what, .I'm mad at the current MIL all over again, FIL is dead, so is her younger brother, she has two older sisters remaining, WHAT happened in that house when they were all growing up, I've been told lots of stories, maybe too many stories... .I think that is why she left without a fight three weeks back, I told her either you or me, but somebody's leaving... .no more punching the boy... .yeah, I know too much, and now I'm dangerous... .I might "expose" it all... .I offered to, ie' suggested we go to family therapy (last ditch?)... .but uBPDw flatly refused... .whatever is locked away in her little head, she isn't going it give it up in therapy... .I suspect many things... .to explain why she left home at sixteen to marry a soldier who was seven years older than her... .I bet its the same reason my first wife wanted to "runaway" with me... .there was abuse in the home, and she was escaping it... .same scenario, undeniable... .I've played the same role both times now... .

So in my mind, she hit my Son, no remorse, no attempt to "get help"... .then we cant live together anymore... .I learned something new tonight too... .and in light of, .I know there is no chance for us, she is across that bar, the spectrum, to the right, against the stops... .ie' malignant... .no hope. 

Mom (MIL) knows enough about me now... .she knows what I'm thinking, not placing blame, but I'd like some answers !

// crazy... .

Red5

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« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2018, 12:38:52 AM »

JNChell, I come and go here... .mostly gone though because of a busy life.  That may or may not change. I felt connected with your plight thus I posted.  The PSI board is special... .as we all probably need to be there at some point in time of our process since our past is part of why we are where we are with our xBPD partners... .at least the majority of us I would presume.  Keep the path of working on yourself and you will be rewarded. 
   
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« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2018, 03:43:59 AM »

Thanks for putting this in perspective, Turkish.
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« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2018, 03:50:22 AM »

Hey, Red5. I’m glad to read your post and that we can relate to each other on this. How’ve you been holding up with everything? How’s S32 adjusting?
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« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2018, 03:51:56 AM »

drained1996, thanks for the encouragement. I hope that you’re not too awful busy during the holidays.
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