Round three: Rough times ahead and looking for advice to prepare

[PurpleFlower]

Hi all, previous topic (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=331417) was closed because it reached the positing limit.

Anyway, so far so good. Haven't admitted I'm abusive and she calmed down about that. I'm still looking to meet up with her to figure out a better way to handle things but things are getting better. I'm just trying to be more patient while we can figure out how she could get some help as well.

I'm seeing a movie today and she hates when I do, saying things like I always see movies for the pretty girls, etc. I don't, by the way. I'm a major cinephile, saw a movie every week when moviepass was a thing. Slowed down recently because my movie going friend has been busy and I've been preoccupied myself but it's starting back up now that better movies are back. So I'm expecting more meltdowns from her on that front, mainly because I always put my phone on Do Not Disturb during movies so I don't respond or even get notifications. Hard boundary that.

Anyway, come first weekend of January I'll be going out to audition for this show that runs during the Summer. Can't say what it is because it'll give away where I am. This show has been a problem in our relationship before. See my first post: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327928.

I want to know how to approach this with her. This is likely the last time I can do this show in a while (5 years? Depends on if special accommodations can be made... .not important right now). I would like to do this show again next year. I would actually like it if she'd come audition with me but I can foresee that being a problem if she doesn't get in ("I knew they only took pretty people. You should quit because you got in and I didn't." etc.)

I'm worried she's going to try tell me that I told her I would never do the show again like she said when I went back to do a special Halloween event they put on. I am certain, 100% certain I never told her I wouldn't do the show again. I'm sure of this. But I feel like she's going to try tell me that I said I wouldn't. I'm also afraid she's going to try make it a choice. "If you do the show I'm breaking up with you." Which she tried to do while I was in the show last year. "Quit or I'm breaking up with you." Etc. Anyway I don't want to ramble too much I'm just looking for some advice on how to approach this with her. I'll provide more details if asked for.

I should mention that last summer she said she'd like it if her and I could next summer go on a trip somewhere like Norway or Iceland, which I would love to. And if we did this I would just have to inform the show ahead of time if it's a week I was scheduled to be on and swap with my alternate. Not a huge deal, just something I'd have to prepare in March. But which she could bring up. "You promised we were going on vacation!" Which is like, we still would. This wouldn't get in the way of that but she would probably see it that way.

Thank you all!

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[anon28]

I have read through your posts. I definitely relate to how you feel. I can sense when my gf is about to get triggered. She starts asking me questions in a casual tone of voice, you know the tone of voice when you can tell someone is just trying to sound as nonchalant as possible while they are all toxic and sickly on the inside. It's so tiresome. Inside I'm just like oh great, we were planning on having a nice fun evening but nope, of course not. Maybe tomorrow then, if I'm lucky.

If she asks me do I like -insert female celeb- I have to word my answer like "Yes I think her music is awesome" to avoid setting her off. I'm in a near constant state of anxiety. If I want to be alone I worry that she's just going to talk to other dudes because she can't handle being alone with her own thoughts, so I can't even really just go and relax and do my own thing. She has intense jealousy issues coupled with a blatant disregard for normal relationship boundaries. She will bring up things that I had done prior to our relationship, while completely ignoring things she has done during the relationship.

Why do we love these people when they treat us so bad? I get talked down to more and more every day. As soon as I can't quite manage to do something exactly as she wants, she snaps at me. I don't feel any warmth from the person that is supposed to be there for me and I'm supposed to be happy with.

I guess I love her for what I know she can be, on her good days. I love her for what she was when we first met. I love her for what I hope we can be. If I think of leaving her, I feel bad for her. I know she will be heartbroken if she woke up and I was just gone from her life. It makes me sad to think of how it would be for her without me.

I wouldn't advise her to come to audition with you. Imagine it. She would start to loathe the show even more, and it's probably good to have something you do just by yourself.

Honestly, I don't have much advice for you really. My girlfriend is different. If I'm going to do something by myself, she will never ask me to not do it. What she will do is make me feel horrible for about 3 days after it by being extremely passive aggressive and distant. She will do this even if I just go to stay over at my male best friends house to chill and play games for the night (which is pretty much the only thing I have ever gone out overnight for since we met). I hardly bother going out anymore as I know I would just end up being punished for it for the next three days. I'm in the same boat. Just posting to let you know you're not the only struggling with this.

[PurpleFlower]

Thank you anon28, I appreciate hearing from someone in a similar situation.

She preempted me telling her by asking yesterday if I was doing it and I gave her an honest answer that I would like to spend my summer with her, and I don't know if I'm doing it. (I genuinely don't. I have no idea if they'll have a role for me.) And ever since it's been a ___ show. She's been puking from anxiety and didn't talk to me yesterday. And last night she told me if I did the show she'd become a stripper and work every night I was away. But that we'd be broken up. That this is a deal breaker and it's the show or her.

This is so screwball. It shouldn't be a choice. I don't even know how to broach this with her but I didn't do anything to deserve this. I hate when she suggests being a stripper and she knows that and specifically said that because she knew it would upset me. That's so not ok. This whole situation is so much worse than I could have imagined. I'm not even being mean or angry to her and she's just being a manipulative b... .What do I do? I'm not gonna just not do the show just because she's manipulating me into choosing between the show and her.

She's holding seeing her over my head too. We were supposed to go out tonight and have a nice time but she told me she's too sick to go out and if I would just say I'm not doing the show she'll be fine and we can hang out. :/ She claims it's just the show and not the time commitment required but I don't buy it and I know if I did anything else for the same time commitment she'd be just as upset.

[PurpleFlower]

My bad about the swear word slipping through in my last post. I didn't mean for that, I usually stay away I'm just so upset about this whole thing.

[Yellowpearl]

Hey Purpleflower,

I'd say do the show but let her know in advance. Try asking validating questions may be helpful here. If you do the show, asking how does it make her feel, what does she suggest you do, if you do the show what does she think the outcome will be, etc. You may want to look at some of these, https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0.

Along with getting a rhythm for why she feels the way she does, and validating her concerns (not agree, but validate), I would also use the SET technique (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143695.0)

Using SET, I would have a conversation about this while setting a boundary, because right now it seems like she is using the show as a tool to make you fear she will leave you (whether or not she will is uncertain). When in reality, the situation should be (using empathy and assertive tools of communication) conveying to her that if she makes you choose between something like a show, you will not accept that. You draw the line there. Which could also mean leaving her. You can validate her feelings of course by showing understanding for the time commitment while still addressing this show as something you will/must do and won't be backed out of it.

[PurpleFlower]

Hey Purpleflower,

I'd say do the show but let her know in advance. Try asking validating questions may be helpful here. If you do the show, asking how does it make her feel, what does she suggest you do, if you do the show what does she think the outcome will be, etc. You may want to look at some of these, https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0.

Along with getting a rhythm for why she feels the way she does, and validating her concerns (not agree, but validate), I would also use the SET technique (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143695.0)

Using SET, I would have a conversation about this while setting a boundary, because right now it seems like she is using the show as a tool to make you fear she will leave you (whether or not she will is uncertain). When in reality, the situation should be (using empathy and assertive tools of communication) conveying to her that if she makes you choose between something like a show, you will not accept that. You draw the line there. Which could also mean leaving her. You can validate her feelings of course by showing understanding for the time commitment while still addressing this show as something you will/must do and won't be backed out of it.

Thank you Yellowpearl for your kind words and advice. In regards to what she'd say I do if I asked, she'd say quit the show (), is there a way I can ask that question, still be validating, but kind of exclude the 'quit the show' response?

I wish that I could actually talk and communicate with her right now but she blocked me this morning after getting really bad and vomiting again. I've sent her a few emails but save one response going on for multiple paragraphs about how I'm continuing to do a show "even though its a detriment to her physical and metal health" and how I'm "clearly not fazed by her puking so why should she care that I don't want her to be a stripper" I've gotten nothing. She also said something along the lines of how "stripping will be the validation she'd need to survive after that kind of rejection (me doing the show)." I've sent an email apologizing for a somewhat heated remark I made this morning and another asking if the plans we had for tonight were canceled and I've got no response.

I would really like to do this show especially since for the conceivable future it's the last time I can. I get why she's upset, beyond the time commitment there's tasteful nudity in the show which she detests because she apparently thinks I love someone at this show or that I'll fall in love. She also calls the show disgusting because of the nudity. Completely absurd claims but it's not like I can say that to her. As a side note, there's really no reason why she can't come to the show and sit backstage with me :/. Which I only bring up because she wants to spend literally all summer with me and like, she can come sit backstage and spend time with me and it wouldn't even be a problem? She said she'd rather be a stripper though. God I really hate when she says that.

I don't know how to proceed. She's clearly ignoring my messages, probably trying to get me to acquiesce to her demand to not do the show. She even went as far to offer me $1000 or to pay for couple's therapy for the entire summer if I didn't do the show. I perhaps rudely but I tried to ask really kindly if she had the money, and if she did why she didn't use it for therapy for herself right now instead and she kind of just ignored that question. I'm not really sure how to use validating questions or SET when she's not even responding... .Maybe this really is the end, as I've always feared? Ignoring me for a whole day is not entirely unprecedented but is somewhat new. You were remarkably prescient picking up on that fear that she's going to leave me, Yellowpearl.

I'm trying to stay positive, waiting somewhat anxiously for her to message me back. Been trying to do mindfulness exercises today to keep myself calm. The fact that she hasn't replied at all which is different behavior is what stresses me out the most. I'm trying my best to make this work and maintain a boundary and build a good relationship and I feel like I'm losing it trying to keep it all together :/

[Yellowpearl]

In regards to what she'd say I do if I asked, she'd say quit the show (Laugh out loud (click to insert in post), is there a way I can ask that question, still be validating, but kind of exclude the 'quit the show' response?

I see what you mean there. She wants you to quit the show as the resolution no matter what. You could ask her why she feels that way and show you are hearing her side. You could also ask "Are there other options you would be happy with?" At this point it wouldn't matter she says "no" or not, the fact that you asked that, will show her, you aren't okay with her answers and making her think about other options.

I don't know how to proceed. She's clearly ignoring my messages, probably trying to get me to acquiesce to her demand to not do the show. She even went as far to offer me $1000 or to pay for couple's therapy for the entire summer if I didn't do the show. I perhaps rudely but I tried to ask really kindly if she had the money, and if she did why she didn't use it for therapy for herself right now instead and she kind of just ignored that question. I'm not really sure how to use validating questions or SET when she's not even responding... .Maybe this really is the end, as I've always feared?

Yeah the SET/validating questions can be put aside from now. They are good to keep in mind as things come up you might be able to use these technique and deescalate the situation around you going to the show!

I'm sorry to hear that she has blocked/stopped responding to you. It sounds like her feelings are out of control and she is trying to manage them by avoiding you. Her way of trying to get control over the situation.

Maybe this really is the end, as I've always feared? Ignoring me for a whole day is not entirely unprecedented but is somewhat new

Can she really ignore you that long? We can't be sure but it sounds like likely not though right? At this point if you think about it, she was trying to seek attention by calling you out and making accusations. Eventually she may want to hear from you again but you may have to approach things differently. You could wait until you are unblocked and try to do calming things you like to do in the meantime. What is your next steps here you'd like to take?

[PurpleFlower]

I see what you mean there. She wants you to quit the show as the resolution no matter what. You could ask her why she feels that way and show you are hearing her side. You could also ask "Are there other options you would be happy with?" At this point it wouldn't matter she says "no" or not, the fact that you asked that, will show her, you aren't okay with her answers and making her think about other options.

Thank you for this advice! I'll keep it in mind for the future, when I try to approach this situation again. If I even have to? As I said, there's a possibility, unlikely it may be, that I don't even get a role in the show, although SO seems to take it as fact that I've already got a role... .Facts follow feelings I guess.

I'm sorry to hear that she has blocked/stopped responding to you. It sounds like her feelings are out of control and she is trying to manage them by avoiding you. Her way of trying to get control over the situation.

Can she really ignore you that long? We can't be sure but it sounds like likely not though right? At this point if you think about it, she was trying to seek attention by calling you out and making accusations. Eventually she may want to hear from you again but you may have to approach things differently. You could wait until you are unblocked and try to do calming things you like to do in the meantime. What is your next steps here you'd like to take?

I think this is accurate, I think she's trying to take control back by blocking me and avoiding me/the triggering situation. She did mention this morning she was afraid of our plans tonight (which were for half an hour from now so I'm fairly sure they're off) because she was scared she'd get more mad than she already is. She seemed to indicate she was really upset at herself for being mad, and she wished that "she could just be normal."

I don't know how long she can ignore me for. She went two days with only a few emails about two months back. She could do it if she really tried or wanted to.

Thank you Yellowpearl for your kind words, I appreciate it a lot. I'm not sure what to do right now. I'm really anxious waiting for her reply, and whether it's going to be positive or negative or angry or happy etc. I'm going hiking tomorrow which should help calm me down but I'm not sure what steps to take with SO besides just wait it out, which is by far the hardest thing to do :/

[Yellowpearl]

Hiking sounds like a great distraction and good way to spend your time while you are waiting. She could reply tomorrow or the next day.

You mentioned she was also upset at herself to being mad and wished she can be more rational. So she has some awareness of how she’s doing so much that she gets unsure about those plans with you. Maybe blocking is even a way for her to protect her from having upset feelings toward you because she cares. It’s just a way to look at it because with those who have BPD,
Sometimes they struggle with toxic shame and they don’t want anyone to see that side of them.

Sounds like she may just need time to cool off.and trying to keep your mind with doing things you enjoy, even small things may really help in the meantime.

[PurpleFlower]

Hiking sounds like a great distraction and good way to spend your time while you are waiting. She could reply tomorrow or the next day.

You mentioned she was also upset at herself to being mad and wished she can be more rational. So she has some awareness of how she’s doing so much that she gets unsure about those plans with you. Maybe blocking is even a way for her to protect her from having upset feelings toward you because she cares. It’s just a way to look at it because with those who have BPD,
Sometimes they struggle with toxic shame and they don’t want anyone to see that side of them.

Sounds like she may just need time to cool off.and trying to keep your mind with doing things you enjoy, even small things may really help in the meantime.

Thank you very much Yellowpearl. I hope that it is just that she needs time to cool off and that we can start to rebuild when she has, and not that she's seriously considering ending this relationship. :/ I sent her a short email this morning just saying good morning and that I hope she has a good day, before heading out to hike, which I'm going to do in a few minutes.

Waiting for a reply is really hard to do honestly. It's making me tremendously anxious not knowing what's going on inside her head. It's really hard to drop from communicating so much straight down to nothing in a single day, but I'm trying to just give her space and wait it out. If we can't come to a resolution to this problem, and she never gets over me doing the show, we probably will have to end the relationship and that makes me incredibly sad because I really do love this girl.

[Yellowpearl]

You did good by sending a calm message which can be really hard to do in such a position. I hope that you get a reply from her soon. Keep us updated!

[PurpleFlower]

You did good by sending a calm message which can be really hard to do in such a position. I hope that you get a reply from her soon. Keep us updated!

Thank you Yellowpearl, I hope so too.

As of now or so it's been about 35 hours since I last received a message from her. I'm getting increasingly more anxious and concerned. I keep anxiously checking my email for a message. I haven't reached out since this morning but I might send a good night message. I definitely intend to reach out tomorrow morning just to see how she's doing and what she's thinking but... .This is really stressing me out. Not knowing what's happening is incredibly distracting and disheartening. I don't even know what to say to her. I thought I had been through everything with SO in the past year or so but this is entirely new to me. Gah I wish I wasn't so stressed about it but I'm really worried and I care about her a lot and thinking about not hearing from her and then also the stripping and just. It all makes me so sad and upset and stressed and anxious and I just wish I knew what to do. I just needed to get my feelings out there since all my friends are out of town for the holidays. Thank you all.

[Manifest32f]

Hi: I am sorry to hear that you are going through rough times and I hope and pray for your strength and endurance. I go through difficult times almost on a daily basis with my adult daughter who doesn’t think twice about hurting my feelings at any point but expects that I apologize profusely all the time repeatedly until I can turn blue! However since I joined this group, I have learned to stop with ‘validating her feelings’ and leave it at that. It aggravates her and I get a barrage of hurtful texts for not apologizing but I am learning to stay firm and not respond whenever I can, although I have to hone in on that skill. I want to thank you all for giving me the support & guidance in this matter.

Today she started with how I broke her dreams and imagination by saying there was no Santa when she was 7yrs old. I immediately said I am sorry but she would not stop blaming me for not pursuing her dreams to write, to explore her creative side and support her with achieving her dreams. By that she means not pursuing a career but just stay home, lazy around and have access to any amount of money so she could do only what she wants when and how she wants! We are very moderate family where my husband and I worked until 77 & 69 respectively and depend on limited income to sustain ourselves. We put her through professional education and made sure she didn’t have any loans, nor any other financial burden. She has just started bearing the rent expenses and we still cater to everything else and she is never satisfied with anything we do and it’s getting very tiresome and exhausting. I just cannot see myself doing it for long but don’t know what to do. Life is very tough and testing. Thanks for letting me share this with you all. Have a Happy Holiday season everyone!

[PurpleFlower]

Hi Manifest32f I'm really sorry to hear you're going through that. Times can be rough, especially when it's something you have to deal with every day like that. Doubly so if it's someone you deeply care about. I understand.

It can be really frustrating when our pwBPD brings up something from a long time ago. It seems they have almost perfect recall for things that would hurt or upset us. I completely understand what it feels like when she brings up something from when she was 7 (that's a really long time ago!). My SO brings up things that happened almost a year ago, if not longer for no readily apparent reason except that it would make me upset and hurt me. Sometimes you just have to work through it, take a deep breath and try (hard as it may be) to stay calm and in a good frame of mind. That's one of the hardest things to do. And yet we try to do it because we love this person so much.  Thank you for sharing.

[Manifest32f]

Thank you for the encouraging words. It has not been any better this morning although I said I am sorry once again for hurting her feelings when she was 7 to which she replied, ‘there are many more things you should be apologizing for and please don’t bother me ‘. I certainly believe that people with BPD traits have distorted recall of events and always find reasons to be very upset and angry so they can justify their actions. I have tried to reason with her very calmly as to how certain logic she comes up with doesn’t make sense and when she knows she is wrong, she changes the subject or gets up and leaves! I am dreading the next couple of days if not weeks/months/years. I already feel very weak due to lack of sleep and constant worry, coupled with some health problems and it is only getting worse. Being a fatalist, I think it is because of karma, which helps me cope better. I want to wish everyone in our BPD family ‘an emotionally healthy and strong New Year’ and in years to come! Thank you for all the support. It has been a great cathartic experience. Love you all.

[Yellowpearl]

Not knowing what's happening is incredibly distracting and disheartening. I don't even know what to say to her. I thought I had been through everything with SO in the past year or so but this is entirely new to me.

It sounds like she is still sulking about this. I am sorry you are dealing with a lot of anxiety and stress. Not knowing what's going on is the worst. Is there anything you can think of to do in the meantime that may help reduce the anxiety? Any updates?

[PurpleFlower]

Mainfest32f I hope that you're able to find some peace soon. I know the feeling when you try to reason with them and then when they start to realize they're wrong they storm off. It's a side effect of not being able to reason with them at all. They just shut down or get worse. An unfortunate lesson I've had to learn.

It sounds like she is still sulking about this. I am sorry you are dealing with a lot of anxiety and stress. Not knowing what's going on is the worst. Is there anything you can think of to do in the meantime that may help reduce the anxiety? Any updates?

I think she is but I can't tell. I sent another email about an hour ago but still nothing. I know she's at least been on instagram since even though I'm blocked there and her profile is private I can tell she's changed her profile picture some time in the last two days.

I can't really think of anything to do in the mean time because I have difficult concentrating. I was able to have an alright morning but I've started to lose steam again and it's falling apart. I have to keep fighting the urge to drive over and see her because I know that that's a bad idea. I wish she'd just reply. I've been trying to keep  myself occupied but it hasn't been working very well. Thank you Yellowpearl. I'll be sure to keep everyone updated on what happens next. Hopefully good news.

I do wonder if maybe she's waiting until after Christmas to end it. It would be unlikely but not outside the realm of possibility.

[PurpleFlower]

Short update, I sent her an email asking if she was ignoring me, and got a short reply back saying "I, too, am hurting. But I cannot talk." And that was it.

On one hand I'm relieved to at least hear from her in some aspect. It did brighten my mood at least a little but the brevity of the message worries me. I'm glad to have heard back from her at least, so I'm savoring the moment. I'm not sure if I'm going to respond.

On the other hand I am a little worried about it. She seems to clearly want space as I had assumed so I'm going to try give it to her for now. I'm going to see if I can try and distract myself through Christmas.

If I do reply, which I likely will, I'll probably wish her Merry Christmas and Christmas Eve and the like. It is the holiday season. I'm not sure what else, if anything, to say besides that. I might throw in something about how I understand and will try to give her space? It might be good for her to at least hear that little bit of validation, I think. As always, suggestions welcome.

[Yellowpearl]

I’m glad of your relief that she at least replied. She at least acknowledged she’s hurting and expressed an emotion. It was very brief indeed. I see this is tricky in replying or not.

Your idea of reaching out during Christmas time could be good to try out actually... Maybe you could wish her a merry christmas and let her know you’re here when she’s ready to talk.
Or let her know you understand she may need time and will be available when she’s ready. I’d keep it light.

What do you think?

[PurpleFlower]

I’m glad of your relief that she at least replied. She at least acknowledged she’s hurting and expressed an emotion. It was very brief indeed. I see this is tricky in replying or not.

Your idea of reaching out during Christmas time could be good to try out actually... Maybe you could wish her a merry christmas and let her know you’re here when she’s ready to talk.
Or let her know you understand she may need time and will be available when she’s ready. I’d keep it light.

What do you think?

Keeping it light was what I was hoping to do, and I agree with your suggestion to let her know I was here when she was ready to talk. Thank you Yellowpearl.

Unfortunately things got complicated an hour or two after I made my post. She emailed me three more times, letting me in on some more details about what she's feeling. I'm glad I understand a bit more but at the same time what she's thinking is... .absurd, from my point of view.

I'm not going to paste the entirety of the emails here, of course, but the gist of it is that she started by saying to message her when I decide not to do the show, and if I do it to message her at the end of summer (like, 7 months away :/). She apologized and said she had to look out for herself. She then went on to say she feels worthless, and believes that I didn't find just her beautiful while we were together. I'm really bothered that she used the word "were" here as it seems to imply she doesn't consider us together right now but anyway. She seems to have convinced herself somehow that I do this show because I'm attracted to someone there. She says the "timeline was warped" and that I "knew too many details at the time for it not to be an active Interest." She said that "that makes sense because I'm ugly and I'm trying to be ok with that but I'm not." And she just is feeling numb and miserable and is trying to find her worth again because she's "never felt this worthless." Additionally she thanked me for my emails, saying that they were kind.

She finished it out by saying she was enjoying the Christmas gifts I got her, and that she hates not talking. That she misses me and she misses her best friend and that she wants to be okay but that she's *expletive* far from it. I didn't respond to these emails last night as I could feel myself getting really upset and I didn't want to say something unhelpful, unproductive or hurtful.

Frankly I have no idea what she's talking about in regards to the "timeline" as well as me having an "active interest." I think she's somehow convinced herself I like this girl I mentioned way back in my first post (I can't remember the pseudonym I gave her but she can be X). X is just someone at the show who I became friendly with but I have never had any attraction to her at all. SO is convinced I'm doing the show for X. X was someone involved in tasteful nudity last year, which of course set SO off even more. I can't reason with her (it becomes JADEing) and also I'm pretty sure X can't even do the show this year because she moved away. I think SO believes that last year I had an interest in X, or someone else in the show, and that therefore I'm returning to the show this year because of that.

I'm really kind of frustrated that she took two days to actually tell me this, but I don't know how to respond. It's a really delicate situation. I don't want to ruin her holiday by saying something that's going to trip her off, I don't want to indicate that I'm going to do the show today. At the same time, she's got the reasoning for me doing the show all twisted. I want to do the show because I enjoy it, I enjoy giving back to the community, and because it's a good community to be a part of. If I even hint at any of this she complains she's "not enough, why aren't I enough" etc.

If I had to psychoanalyze for a bit it seems that she's convinced herself of this outcome because she feels worthless. Facts follow feelings, so she feels worthless and not enough, so then in her mind she believes that therefore I must be looking for a way to "get away from" her. That I'm looking for someone else that's not her. Does this seem like a reasonable understanding?

That couldn't be further from the truth. I want to be closer to her, but to help her realize how to respect healthy boundaries like not making me choose between her and a show especially when there's no legitimate reason why we can't work out having both.

I just genuinely don't know how to respond to this. I want to validate but not agree to her feelings of course, and to wish her a happy holidays. I'd like to try and talk to her about this because I really do think she's got it all twisted. Like I'd ideally like to tell her that I understand what she's feeling and I hear what she's saying, but maybe indicate that I'm confused by her verbiage and would appreciate it if she elaborated more on what she means by timeline and active interest? That way I can let her talk about it and hear what else she has to say and feel about it. It's just kind of difficult because I don't want her to get triggered and shut down on me again because frankly I don't think that's productive for anyone.

[Yellowpearl]

If I had to psychoanalyze for a bit it seems that she's convinced herself of this outcome because she feels worthless. Facts follow feelings, so she feels worthless and not enough, so then in her mind she believes that therefore I must be looking for a way to "get away from" her. That I'm looking for someone else that's not her. Does this seem like a reasonable understanding?

I understand this was unexpected and a lot to take in! She does indeed sound like she is letting her feelings rule her actions and thoughts. For BPD, feelings = facts, you are right about this. She sounds she is being very low on herself and thus pushing you away. Regardless of your reasons for doing the show, such as giving back to the community, her black and white thinking gets in the way. It sounds to like she automatically thinks she isn't good enough or it's about her.

just genuinely don't know how to respond to this. I want to validate but not agree to her feelings of course, and to wish her a happy holidays. I'd like to try and talk to her about this because I really do think she's got it all twisted. Like I'd ideally like to tell her that I understand what she's feeling and I hear what she's saying, but maybe indicate that I'm confused by her verbiage and would appreciate it if she elaborated more on what she means by timeline and active interest? That way I can let her talk about it and hear what else she has to say and feel about it. It's just kind of difficult because I don't want her to get triggered and shut down on me again because frankly I don't think that's productive for anyone.

With her being very emotional and possibly easily triggered, i'd go with something understanding but somehow maybe not directly ask about the timeline or active interest, kind of leave it more open, in what you say, so she can engage without feeling shut down. Unless you think it will be helpful. I don't want to tell you the wrong thing, or make you feel you shouldn't say this or that, you should go with what you feel is right. I know you are trying to be as sensitive as possible with this, very understandably. Are you still thinking of telling her Merry Christmas? When were you thinking of replying?

[PurpleFlower]

I understand this was unexpected and a lot to take in! She does indeed sound like she is letting her feelings rule her actions and thoughts. For BPD, feelings = facts, you are right about this. She sounds she is being very low on herself and thus pushing you away. Regardless of your reasons for doing the show, such as giving back to the community, her black and white thinking gets in the way. It sounds to like she automatically thinks she isn't good enough or it's about her.

With her being very emotional and possibly easily triggered, i'd go with something understanding but somehow maybe not directly ask about the timeline or active interest, kind of leave it more open, in what you say, so she can engage without feeling shut down. Unless you think it will be helpful. I don't want to tell you the wrong thing, or make you feel you shouldn't say this or that, you should go with what you feel is right. I know you are trying to be as sensitive as possible with this, very understandably. Are you still thinking of telling her Merry Christmas? When were you thinking of replying?

Thank you as always Yellowpearl for responding and talking with me and helping me work through this complicated and tumultuous time.

It was extremely unexpected, and I almost feel like it was a call for help, her reaching out and giving details that I didn't necessarily ask for to elaborate on how she's feeling. I haven't responded yet, although I plan to respond today. Her family celebrates Wigilia, which is today, so I would like to send an email wishing her a happy Wigilia. I do agree that I think I should try maybe not be so specific. I've been drafting a few different versions of the email this morning, and originally I was super specific asking what she meant but I don't want to sound too forward to accusatory, and I appreciate you pointing out that it might be better to leave it a bit open.

I think I will try to go for something akin to what you mentioned in your first response, saying I'm here to talk when she's ready and to wish her a happy holidays. I think I'll indicate that I understand how she's feeling, validate her feelings and validate that I hear and listen by using her descriptions (i.e. broken, miserable, upset, empty) so that she knows I've read her email and truly do comprehend. I'll say some things about how I'm glad she's enjoying her gifts and that I hope she has a good holiday, without needling in on specifically what she's saying about timelines and active interests. I'll just kind of allude to the fact that I'm a little confused and would appreciate if she'd explain more, leaving it open to when and how she does that.

This is a little more of a gentle approach than I think I'd normally take, but I think its for the better. Sometimes I don't really consider how my words might come off as abrasive so I really do appreciate that you've pointed out how it might  make her feel shut down. If she doesn't respond in a way I expect or wants me to explain what I'm confused about then I'll go back and indicate specifically what she said that I would like to hear more about.

In some ways I'm concerned taking too long to reply will also trigger her as she'll see it as confirmation I'm doing the show, but I'd rather get this right so I'm taking my time in crafting the email.

I'm glad I was still able to modify this instead of double posting, but I just received another unexpected email from her asking about F from my previous post, and if I hang out or have been talking with her and what I'll do if she wishes me Happy Christmas. Then she apologizes for not being special like F. This is the old SO I kind of expected to hear on Saturday. Woah now she unblocked me texted me what the heck. Things are getting complicated and confusing. And she asked if I hate her. Oh my goodness how plans fall apart. I'm feeling really stressed now.

[PurpleFlower]

She called and I picked up and answered her questions truthfully but with brevity. Do I talk to her? No, have I seen her or will I see her this break? No. And then she said thanks and hung up and now she just asked if I'm doing the show. Then she called again and I tried to ask if there was another option she'd consider and she said no. that she offered to pay for couple's therapy. And then she said I'm clearly making the show out to be special and that "I thought not having me for a few days would make it easier to choose but I guess I really have no worth to you. But the show does. Can’t even choose me. I’ll choose for you. I deserve someone who would choose me without hesitation. But I guess X is special."

I'm really hurt that it seems like she confirms that she tried to use the silent treatment to bend me to her will. That's really hurtful and makes me feel used.

I have no words. I tried so hard. She said not to even bother messaging her at the end of summer. That it's just over. Now I really don't know what to do anymore.

[Yellowpearl]

I'm very sorry for this reaction that you got. I see this is so tough and confusing for you!

Your email ideas about giving her time  and wishing her a good holiday were thoughtful and brilliant. I'm sorry to hear that things turning out this way and that she called and had such a conversation.

She is basing this all of of feeling rejected or not good enough. She sounds dysregulated and stressed out. Even though it is hurtful, with a grain of salt, you can know it's not about you but her difficulty in seeing you really care despite the show stuff and her fears.

Has she ever ended it before? Is this the first time she said it's just over? I hope you will enjoy your holiday despite this coming up, best you can. You deserve that.

[PurpleFlower]

I'm very sorry for this reaction that you got. I see this is so tough and confusing for you!

Your email ideas about giving her time  and wishing her a good holiday were thoughtful and brilliant. I'm sorry to hear that things turning out this way and that she called and had such a conversation.

She is basing this all of of feeling rejected or not good enough. She sounds dysregulated and stressed out. Even though it is hurtful, with a grain of salt, you can know it's not about you but her difficulty in seeing you really care despite the show stuff and her fears.

Has she ever ended it before? Is this the first time she said it's just over? I hope you will enjoy your holiday despite this coming up, best you can. You deserve that.

This isn't the first time she's done it. I think it's over for good anyway. I went over and told her I'd like a book I leant her back if she's ending it and she sounded disgusted and told me it's over, for good. We texted for a bit after and she kept telling me to choose, right now, her or the show and I tried to understand why she hated the show so much and I was able to get her to explain a bit more about what she's upset about but eventually she said I must really love making her feel worthless because I succeeded. She kept telling me to *expletive* choose right now. The show or her. And I just tried to stay calm and ask why now anyway since the show isn't for 7 months. Eventually she just blocked me and told me to go "*expletive* the show in the *expletive*." She said multiple times if I just didn't do the show we'd be ok. I don't believe it but anyway.

I sent her a final email telling her I love her and that this wasn't what I expected, that I'll always be her biggest supporter. And that given the circumstances that she ended it (allegedly for good) that I wouldn't be emailing her for a while while I try and be ok. She sent a few emails after with pictures of herself saying "I'm too pretty for my life to be like this." Probably trying to drive home that other statement she made "you should choose me because I'm hot and you're lucky I'm with you." Nice.

I don't know what will happen right now. Thank you for your support Yellowpearl. I'm going to try and enjoy Christmas tomorrow. I'm not gonna reach out to her for now. Probably won't for at least the week I said I would in my email. If she comes to realize how foolhardy an ultimatum like that was maybe we can work something out but for now... .it looks like this might be the end. Unfortunately, and much to my displeasure.

[Yellowpearl]

I'm very sorry for your day being so tough. I went through something similar 2 months ago, and it was over, he said the whole "never talk again!" I reached back out after a long time, several weeks later, and he was interested in talking again, he stopped again, and things are up in the air again, so you aren't alone there. PwBPD can be quite impulsive with their moods and actions, it makes a person's head spin. She may or may not come to realize how silly the ultimatum was, hopefully she does. You are right its good to just give it a week. Sounds like a smart idea.

You never know what can happen, that's for sure. I know what you mean, in it feels over and its just a lot. That's a great idea, to just focus on enjoying Christmas tomorrow and just having a good time for yourself that day. Like doing something relaxing. I'm going to probably watch a bunch of Netflix and reading books/articles at my family's house. Doing something normal like that usually helps me calm during these turbulent times.

[PurpleFlower]

I'm very sorry for your day being so tough. I went through something similar 2 months ago, and it was over, he said the whole "never talk again!" I reached back out after a long time, several weeks later, and he was interested in talking again, he stopped again, and things are up in the air again, so you aren't alone there. PwBPD can be quite impulsive with their moods and actions, it makes a person's head spin. She may or may not come to realize how silly the ultimatum was, hopefully she does. You are right its good to just give it a week. Sounds like a smart idea.

You never know what can happen, that's for sure. I know what you mean, in it feels over and its just a lot. That's a great idea, to just focus on enjoying Christmas tomorrow and just having a good time for yourself that day. Like doing something relaxing. I'm going to probably watch a bunch of Netflix and reading books/articles at my family's house. Doing something normal like that usually helps me calm during these turbulent times.

Thank you as always for the kind words Yellowpearl. It's always nice to hear that there's someone else in a similar situation to mine. I hope that your situation resolves itself with peace and prosperity for both of you. She spent much of the evening on Christmas Eve sending me messages asking why I'm ignoring her and I eventually told her she ended it and I was hurt and to please leave me alone. She said "we're not broken up" and I said that wasn't how it works, but I wanted to make sure she was ok.

She said she prayed at mass that we'd be ok. I just kind of shrugged it off. She's dropped talking about the show, I think she's starting to realize that the ultimatum was a bit daft. Christmas was good until the end when she finally told me what the nonsense about the timeline was about (without me asking).

Apparently this celebrity I said was beautiful (back in March... .like I told Manifest32f, pwBPD seem to have brilliant memories for what you said that hurt them the most) I had indicated that she had "recently" dyed her hair blonde, and that there was no way I could know that without actively following her. Now, I honestly don't know when the heck she dyed her hair. No clue. You could tell me it was 2016 and I'd say that was recent. And I can tell you with certainty I didn't know when she dyed her hair when I said it back in March. But that's irrelevant according to SO. Or at least, she doesn't believe it. And so because I had this "active interest" in March she's done.

And then she apologized yesterday, she called me a lot of names and said she was looking for a therapist right now. I told her she ended it and if she wanted a chance at reconciliation right now she'd have to find a therapist. Anyway now she's blocked me (for the fourth time in four days) because now she's upset I'll be watching some of the TV show that the celebrity is in. And because I don't say I don't want to watch it, she assumes I want to watch it.

Classic black and white thinking. Really I'm just indifferent towards it. I'm not looking forward to it nor am I averse to watching it. To avoid giving too many personal details, I'll be watching it because I've been watching through this television show in order with a friend and we have a bit of a (a very small one at that) fan base. Since those episodes are coming up we're obviously going to watch it. She said I should just skip the episodes and I asked if there's any other course of action she'd prefer. Of course the answer is no but... .I tried to ask validating questions at least?

Honestly this back and forth "I'm done" to "no please don't leave me please please" is so so bad this week and it's wearing me out. I've messaged her twice today and said I won't be messaging her anymore today. I want to rekindle and rebuild this but again, I'm so worn down due to the events of the past week (since it was a week ago today when she brought up the show... .) that right now I just, you know, really want a break? Like I just wanna... .rest. I love her with all of my heart, I truly do but this is immensely taxing. Last night I tried to get her to leave me a lone for a bit and used specifically "I" language, I feel bad, I don't feel emotionally ready to face this right now, I feel like I would be more capable if I could step away from the phone for a bit. I just can't seem to stay away from the phone and commit, I would appreciate anyone's tips for how to say this, that I need the space, and then to commit. It's by far my biggest weakness.

In regards to this TV show, I'm just going to maintain my stance that I'm indifferent towards it, because I am. She goes on and on about how can I do this to her, this celebrity ruined us, all the progress we've made since march down the drain (I don't buy it, she's being dramatic). But frankly, I have no feelings about this celebrity or this upcoming episodes at all. I just have to do it so I will. I feel it might be best for her recovery in the long term if I maintain this shade of gray opinion as best I can. I'm not going to give in to her demands to skip those episodes, but I'm not gonna tell her I want to or don't want to watch the episodes. I think it would be better for her to learn there's more shades than black and gray. Advice always welcome.

[once removed]

She spent much of the evening on Christmas Eve sending me messages asking why I'm ignoring her and I eventually told her she ended it and I was hurt and to please leave me alone. She said "we're not broken up" and I said that wasn't how it works, but I wanted to make sure she was ok.
... .
She said she prayed at mass that we'd be ok. I just kind of shrugged it off. She's dropped talking about the show, I think she's starting to realize that the ultimatum was a bit daft.
I told her she ended it and if she wanted a chance at reconciliation right now she'd have to find a therapist.

be careful, PF.

if the shoe were on the other foot, this might look like returning an ultimatum with an ultimatum. the ignoring might look like silent treatment. and this battle between the two of you might look like power plays for either of you to get your way.

you were very anxious before today, about the prospect of a breakup. you are understandably on guard right now that shes changed her tune. youre burned out. some (healthily communicated) need for space may be wise to tend. its a fine line to walk.

if her seeing a therapist is a hill you want to die on, be sure it is a hill you are prepared for the relationship to die on. in other words, dont set yourself up to fail, dont reject her and hope that she sustains this tune.

[PurpleFlower]

be careful, PF.

if the shoe were on the other foot, this might look like returning an ultimatum with an ultimatum. the ignoring might look like silent treatment. and this battle between the two of you might look like power plays for either of you to get your way.

you were very anxious before today, about the prospect of a breakup. you are understandably on guard right now that shes changed her tune. youre burned out. some (healthily communicated) need for space may be wise to tend. its a fine line to walk.

if her seeing a therapist is a hill you want to die on, be sure it is a hill you are prepared for the relationship to die on. in other words, dont set yourself up to fail, dont reject her and hope that she sustains this tune.

Thank you once removed. It's good to hear from an outside perspective how this looks. I did consider when I said it that it was an ultimatum, and frankly I was in an emotionally out of wack state myself when I said it. My nerves were thin and I was frustrated. She does need to see a therapist, and it's something that I do think is vital if not necessary to her recovery. And I think it important that I communicate (respectfully) that I can't really do or handle this alone, not right now at the very least. But I really feel kind of bad about making it out like an ultimatum like that and so I haven't brought it up again. It was more of a heat of the moment snap rather than a legitimate ultimatum, if you understand what I'm saying. Not that that makes it ok, and I appreciate you telling me how it looks if the shoe were on the other foot!

I haven't contacted her after I messaged her earlier today about hoping she was ok and wanting to take today off. She responded back with a dysregulated response but I've honestly been keeping myself busy today to try and reset.

I haven't really been ignoring her. I do message her when she messages me and I have been reaching out to talk but today especially I specifically told her I wasn't feeling like I could handle it right now, that I needed the time. Again I tried very hard to only use I statements, and to never talk about her with a "you" statement (i.e. I never said "you're tiring me out." Just "I don't feel emotionally 100% right now, I would appreciate it if I could step away from the phone for a bit to reset and try and be ok.")

I would like to reach out again tomorrow when I feel back up to speed, with something noncomittal and non pressuring. I was thinking something along the lines of "I would like to talk sometime." Which I feel communicates my desire to talk without giving her any set timeframe to panic or be anxious about. I also raised my voice a bit yesterday (not yelling, just a little louder than normal) and I would like to apologize as well. I think that's a good starting point to try and rebuild things, I think she's upset about this whole watching the show thing. Any advice on reaching out again, in a respectful way? Or perhaps I should take a few days more space :/ I'm feeling good again right now, although I'm not sure if I'm "good enough" so to speak to handle everything. Especially since she's again "done" since I'm watching this show. And she "doesn't give a s... .t anymore." Ah woe is me.

[once removed]

It was more of a heat of the moment snap rather than a legitimate ultimatum, if you understand what I'm saying.

ultimatums can be legitimate, and at times necessary, but if theyre to be made, we have to be prepared to stand by them and live with the consequences. when theyre bargaining chips, they dont work so well.

I haven't really been ignoring her. I do message her when she messages me and I have been reaching out to talk but today especially I specifically told her I wasn't feeling like I could handle it right now, that I needed the time. Again I tried very hard to only use I statements, and to never talk about her with a "you" statement (i.e. I never said "you're tiring me out." Just "I don't feel emotionally 100% right now, I would appreciate it if I could step away from the phone for a bit to reset and try and be ok.")

this is also legitimate and at times necessary, but again, we have to be prepared to stand by it, and to live with the consequences. people with BPD traits dont always take "i need space" well.

Any advice on reaching out again, in a respectful way? Or perhaps I should take a few days more space

i think your approach is fine. would you maybe want to shoot for talking in person again?

youre in a real rock and a hard place with the show:

on one hand, we have to pick our battles and our hills to die on. it would seem reasonable to skip a show, but obviously, this is bigger than the show, and she is likely to take the same steps again over something else. theyre tests to see if youll choose her. by not playing, in her eyes, you certainly arent choosing her.

its calling her bluff by and large, but the problem is that it still does damage over time. she feels like shes not a priority, she feels hurt and resentment, and it can erode trust.

on the other hand, we arent solving problems when its about being right (go to the show because you want to and shes being unreasonable). on the other hand, you cant reward threats (its over if you go) like that, and you dont want to go too far in sacrificing your hobbies and passions (compromising them is another thing).

its something to work on trying to nip in the bud over time, together. it will require a whole lot of listening and making her feel heard, showing that you genuinely understand that it feels to her like youre choosing something over her. it will also require, once she feels heard, is a little less on guard and more able to listen, stating your position, and your need to enjoy your hobbies and passions (compromising where you can). one thing the two of you probably agree on is that breakup threats damage the relationship, damage trust, build resentment, and should be phased out of your relationship... .that the two of you are better than that, and can work out your problems.

whether you will have a cooperative partner in that remains to be seen. this is very difficult.