Hello.

My SO hasn't been clinically diagnosed with borderline but the symptoms align very well, and she thinks herself that she has it. Abandonment issues, instability in her self image, lots of splitting behavior, emotional instability. Unstable interpersonal relationships (she says I'm her only true friend, yikes), recurrent suicidal behavior (although she was clinically diagnosed with depression), feelings of emptiness. Those are all there.

Frankly I'm kind of at the end of my rope here, I feel beyond helpless. Let me provide some background and then I'll hit some of the finer details of what's really bothering me right now. We've been together nearly 9 months (a few days shy) and I frankly love her to bits. We clicked almost instantly, everything is great when she's not bad or upset. I should mention that this is my first relationship (I'm over twenty though), she is the first girl I've kissed or done anything sexual with. I feel like that may be important information. When she is bad I can usually handle it. Usually she moves past it after a little while and I can handle whatever she throws my way without getting frustrated or upset. Or I used to. And the good times used to far outweigh the bad. I don't know anymore. Here's my problem.

Her self esteem is practically nonexistent a lot of the times and this leads to a lot of problems. I have to try keep this vague, largely because I don't want to give away my location, but I volunteer each summer for a very specific kind of stage show. It requires a somewhat large time commitment, every night about 2 and a half hours for a week straight, and then a week off. I go 28 days this summer (14 of which I've already completed). Last year I met a girl there, her name will be A. We were friends, not exceptionally close but she was one of the few people I talked to. We lost touch when the show ended at the end of August. My SO found out about A when A commented on a graduation picture of myself and SO on Instagram, but did not like the picture (Instagram is a whole other problem). To SO this meant that A liked me. And wanted to sleep with me. I honestly don't find A attractive and was never involved with her in anyway. But I digress. So even before this summer's season started SO already didn't like this show.

Once the show started things got worse. SO would break down every night when I went because I'm not allowed to use my phone backstage. To her this meant I was "choosing the show over her" or "choosing A over her" or just generally leaving her. The usual abandonment snafu. Then last week (a few days ago) she came to see the show because I substituted for the other cast (who is on the weeks I'm off). I think she legitimately hates me now. She wants me to quit. Says it's a waste of time. That it's disgusting because (she only discovered this when she saw the show) there's nude people in the show and every night now she "knows" I'm choosing to go see "those naked skanks." And I try to explain why I do the show but she "doesn't get it." But I can't get her to just accept that our views on this are different because she apparently desperately wants us to "see this the same way. That the show is stupid and dumb and worthless and I could be doing better things with my time (like talking to her)"

I'm horrified and I feel honestly worthless. She has never been so openly hostile towards me. She's been saying this show ruined her, that this has ruined her and her summer and she wanted to spend time with me (we see each other every few days, we saw each other yesterday for 14 hours in fact, and this is only two and a half hours in the evening) and we barely hang out. That I should quit because she doesn't know if she can do this if I stay in the show. She keeps saying things like the show ruined her, or it ruined us (as a relationship, because I get really frustrated now, and I didn't before).

But I won't quit. This show soothes me, yes it gets me away from her and frankly I need that break. But at the same time I get so incredibly frustrated at her because she breaks down every night and says so many mean things now. It's like I have to decide if the two and a half hours away make up for the disgusting accusations she's going to throw around during it. I won't quit. That's non-negotiable. And my therapist wouldn't let me quit, as she constantly tells me I need to keep my life alive while I'm with my SO to avoid getting sucked into her life completely. To try and keep the relationship healthy. And I enjoy it too much.

I'm just really frustrated and hopeless and I feel very very bad. She keeps blaming the show but I said, in my anger the other day, that she caused this. I've started to lash out more in anger and it really scares me because it's not who I am or who I used to be. And she told me I need to stop saying abusive things when I'm angry and that just really ruined me. Now I think I'm abusive. I've tried so hard to be good and patient and my nerves are so frayed and she just straight up berates my hobby now and it hurts so much because I just want to be supported :/ Honestly I just want to know how to deal with this. How do I, stay calm, and try and work with her on this so we can try get past it? What do I do to better center myself to get through this? The show ends in three weeks for me. Two more weeks of shows plus a week off. I don't know if I can last that long like this.

I also just feel really alone. I don't feel like I can talk with anyone about this anymore because they keep telling me to just leave. But I don't want to, and when things are good, they're GOOD. And I frankly don't know what to do. I feel lost, and this situation has really exacerbated those feelings because she is directly berating a hobby of mine. She has never done that before. Ever. I've tried to do things like SET but I think I just need advice on how to stay calm and centered and how to approach this specific problem. Because I've been getting very frustrated recently, and I have lashed out at her a bit (nothing major, just a sentence or two, things like "you caused this" which really isn't ok and I beat myself up a lot for it. I don't want to do it anymore.)

Thanks for reading, I appreciate it. I get a little verbose sometimes so I'm sorry this ended up so long. Just getting it on paper has made me feel a little better.

Thank you very much for the advice pearl.

I have been looking up meditation and have actually been considering starting for some time. I am generally just trying to find a way to be a little more centered and grounded.

I find it very hard not to JADE honestly, I'm a very logical person and to see someone so ruled by emotions makes it difficult for me to understand sometimes. Just now she started on about the show again, right after suggesting we go back to vapid surface level conversation like we did at the start of our relationship as kind of a "reset." I've been trying to stay calmer, and shift the choice to her. I.e. She tells me I choose the show or I quit but if I stay in she'll break up with me, and I've been trying to gently tell her I know it hurts but if I keep doing the show, it is her choice to leave me, not mine. It's hard.

It is also hard because I used to ask her if she wanted me to quit, and she would say no, until she saw the show a few days ago. And now she wants me to quit because she says seeing it was a mistake (because of said nudes I guess). And she is saying I am going back on my word for saying I would quit.

I feel very lost still, but I hope with time clarity will come. Thank you for the advice!

Hey PurpleFlower I am sorry that you are going through this with you SO. 

Looks like trial on fire, sort of. It can get better.

pearlsw has a good point, being conscious of JADEing and avoiding doing it is a very good thing to work on for when we are getting into these situations. It's not that easy to apply. It's a bit counter intuitive at the beginning.

And for me it has been that I did need to have something to fall back on instead of JADEing. I like to use SET.   Support, Empathy, Truth.  Sometimes, a bit like pearlsw describes with her SO, for me it can go S-E-S-E-E S-E T!... S-E!. But it's worth the effort.

With pwBPD, as you have experienced, their feelings are very real to them, so if we start to explain ourselves, or argue, or debate, or justify something, we end up adding fuel to the fire because it comes at them like we are discrediting their reality. Best to keep our interaction aiming to their feelings, and not put too much emphasis to our version of the facts.

They tend to see their feelings = facts.

Chances are that if you do approach this carefully and address the feelings your SO is expressing, you will find a way to de-escalate the intensity to the situation.


Interesting. Do I understand that she is saying that she said the mistake was for her to see that show?

How did it come up to her concluding that you are going back on your word? Can you share a bit of she said/he said in the conversation that took place, so we can understand better the feeling issue?


Brave

Thank you all for the advice.  I am definitely taking it to heart, and trying to keep myself calm and find the emotions and feelings at the root of this tumultuous time. :/ I am a very logical person, and always have been. It's hard not to JADE (now that I know the acronym), when I have always operated on logic like that. If I justify myself she should understand right? It's hard to remember that I'm dealing with someone rather unlike myself in that aspect. So I need to adjust, get better at trying to use tools and techniques that get to the heart of the feelings at play. Which is I think the hardest part, staying calm under pressure and trying to defuse the situation enough so that we can talk through it. Doubly so because most of our interactions like this are through text, where so much nuance is lost.


This is the gist of it. In essence, she would be greatly upset that I would leave for two and a half hours each night I was performing. They take my phone away at security back stage, and as an example she would sometimes hurl insults at security for "treating us like babies." Often times I would get my phone back to a hundred or more messages, angry, about various things she is insecure about. But I would always ask if she was in a mood about the show, and this is as close to the wording I used as I can remember, "It seems like this show really upsets you, would you like me to quit?" And she would always say no, that I enjoy it and I should do things I enjoy. It's not something I want to (or would) quit, but I was trying to get the lay of the land, to understand how exactly she felt about it.

In a moment of clarity earlier, she said that seeing the show herself was a mistake, because she never wanted me to quit until she saw it, and now she gets so triggered when she thinks about it that she wants me to quit. That's why she says it was a mistake to see the show herself.

OK. Than she sees herself being triggered. There is a nuance there.
I would not want to miss the opportunity to explore her feelings there.

Thus the potential to having a conversation where you apply yourself to validate her feelings. Take the pressure off the show itself.

Since we are most likely in BPD land, you might want to reach out with full knowledge of your under_standing. pwBPD tend to have a big extra need for validation. Possibly beyond what we nons can conceive as 'reasonable need'. But I want to make sure I get this right.

Am I right to think that this is not so much about you and your enjoyment of the show, but rather about her feelings regarding the potential instability of your relationship?

Trying to see better in your dynamic.

Brave

Hi PurpleFlower,

I wish I had some advice on this. For me, it just comes from having good self-esteem. I've experienced a bit of anxiety over the years, people called it "shyness" when I was a kid, but I think it was really anxiety. But I just started training myself as a little kid to overcome all the obstacles in front of me, by simply choosing to believe in myself. I simply was clear in my head about "right" and "wrong", for myself and I held to that. Having lost my parents at a young age I learned to take care of and believe in myself and my abilities to get myself through life, no matter what, though sometimes I have to wait for my head and heart to sync up. I choose to have patience with myself and acceptance and love for myself. If I feel bad about myself or something I did, I just work on it and improve it. That's all you can do. I don't linger and wallow in self-hatred. If I feel low I let myself be low for a bit, knowing I will rise back up again. I like me. 

I have to say being in this relationship has turned the world upside down entirely for me and I have never felt my principles and values challenged more than ever before. It is amazing the power of this illness to override, or try to override, reality even. I had no idea this even existed or... .how to face such challenges.

But from what I read you have a pretty strong sense of self and boundaries, from what I can see. You want to do this show, and it sounds really interesting/entertaining by the way, and you do it! Is it a feminist and/or queer thing?

I can give a spot of advice, for what is worth, on the jealousy stuff, which is also pretty difficult to deal with. I'd try to say a few more things to keep my partner more aware of their attractiveness to me. A bit of daily flirting, sexiness, extra attention could help, if nothing else, to keep those thoughts in her head - that you find her attractive versus obsessing over the idea of you being interested in other people. Jealousy is a tough one though. Hearing about it, and feeling the urge to respond. This is definitely a place to work on not JADE-ing.

It also takes a lot of depersonalization when you hear a lot of this negative messaging from your partner I think. I am personally on my last nerve with extreme jealousy and being overly sexualized (at times) by my SO.

But back to the original question. You will make mistakes. I remember once, last year I think, I had a pretty good run and the relationship seemed to be running smoothly. I got a little lulled into thinking this was all over, because that is how my non/logical brain works. Problem solved. But it wasn't! This is a process. I did not stick to my communication tools one day and things started to go off the rails and things got a bit strained. I wanted to kick myself for not using the tools, for having been half-hearted and not trying enough, but you know what? I'm not perfect and all I could do was learn and let myself be re-inspired to do it better the next time. I think the other thing I didn't realize back then was that the tools aren't just for crisis times. I had so many crises I could not see that.

To do a relationship like this though I think you have to take it on as a practice, the way you might take on a yoga practice or something. It takes dedication, commitment, awareness, and flexibility. Just my two cents!

take care, pearl.

Oh boy, guys, I failed big time and I'm really down on myself. I screamed at her which is so far beyond not ok, and I'm really not ok right now.

The gist of how it went down was she kept asking about this girl, from four years ago, who I will call B. She wanted her name, all she would say all day is "I need a name." I stepped away multiple times and I think I did a really good job of remaining calm all day, right up until the end, when I had to go to the show. I basically made her a deal, that I'd tell her the name if she agreed to a few terms: She wasn't allowed to bring B up again, she wouldn't tell me to quit the show, she wouldn't harass me during the show, and that she'd talk to her parents about seeing a more specialized therapist (this is a complex subject but the two line explanation is her parents are extremely critical and unsupportive of mental health, and it was a big deal for them to even let her see a therapist. She's currently seeing a therapist who only specializes in anxiety though, rather than one that specializes with borderline).

She agreed to the terms and I gave her the name and went to the show. Afterwards she said that having the name did help, that she confirmed this person was ugly and not a threat and there were a lot of very mean messages about her in my chat log when I looked at my phone. But then she found-out that I had followed B on instagram briefly at the start of this year. My time with B is very upsetting to me, because I was not a good person, and I completely ruined the friendship I had with B because I became extremely clingy and creepy/ I have since re read the chat longs, I am exceptionally creepy and I was very very sad when our friendship ended. She ended it, my therapist has said that it seems like I was in a depressive esque state based on what I've told her about my mental health after I firebombed my friendship with B. Suffice to say it's a painful period that I've tried very hard to put behind me and make up for.

But SO started to go on and on about following B, how I must have thought she was pretty and not ugly like Is aid she was. That even tho "she can see B is ugly maybe you [meaning me] don't see it." And "How can you follow your abuser on instagram? You wanted her, when you had me! What the F... .?" (She never abused me? She just kind of ruined my mental health, because I became creepy and clingy. I say she ruined me but it was my fault in the end). I tried really hard to keep my calm and kept asking for a day of space, since I told her if she broke the terms we'd take a day off. And she kept berating me, "how can you leave me when I'm like this?" And I eventually kind of just... .broke. Completely. I screamed for her to stop and give me at least a few minutes to step away and she just hung up and said "I will give you what you want. A day off. Let me know if you want more."

I can't believe I screamed. I'm legitimately scared of myself. This isn't who I am, this isn't who I want to be. I tried really hard to step away if things got heated yesterday. I'm really just ashamed and disappointed and upset and disgusted and so many other things. This isn't me. It's not who I want to be. There's no excuse for what I did. I said some really mean things too, said she was being an ass, told her to "shut the f... .up" for a minute so I could finish talking before she replied (I should note that while I was on the phone, she was texting replies because she couldn't talk on the phone or make any noise). Just generally mean things. I really kind of hate myself right now. I can provide some more details on request but I'm kind of reeling right now and am just trying to process and tell myself that I'm not a bad person, getting it out on paper was good.

Hi PurpleFlower,

You are not a bad person. One bad incident you instantly regret and are clear with yourself you don't want repeat does not make you a bad person.   It makes you a good person facing some obstacles with humility and compassion. And we are here to help you overcome those obstacles.

I got angry with my SO last week. He would not stop bringing up an old story of some jealous idea he had about me and someone looking at me. He was dysregulated and just would not stop. He goes on and on and it's like all and including the kitchen sink is being thrown at you. You were being harangued and pressured to give a name. A lot of us have been there.

So, you just sit right back down and remember who you are. Recommit to self-control and practice with us about other things to say and do so this does not happen, from your side, again. No need to beat yourself up.

I feel your pain! When I started my current relationship I hadn't gotten angry, raised my voice, or sworn in years. Years. Many years. It's been devastating to be with someone who finds your buttons and then bounces on them like a kid on a trampoline and then you lose your cool. But it happens.

Regularly using these two tools can help:

SET

Validation

I must admit, SET is not easy for me. I probably don't do it perfectly, but I do the best I can and it works well enough when things haven't reached a too far gone point. I don't worry about perfect wording, I just try to say "I hear what you are saying, I care about your feelings, etc., etc." That alone can make a difference. People repeat themselves and escalate (often get louder) when they don't feel heard.

There are times you will just have to walk away, but when you do it is good to let them know you'll be back later so they don't feel abandoned.

take care, pearl.

p.s.   Anyone reading feel like they are good at SET and want to offer some ways to have responded to the above situation? I may take another go at this later, I really need the practice and to internalize this better, but for now I hope a "SET whiz" may come by and make this clear!

I legitimately think this is unsalvageable.

She is making me choose between taking the job and her. I said if she was better I would take it because I would be confident I would not have to worry she is going to die. She said now she doesn't want to get better because she knows I'll leave if she gets better. I just can't do this, I don't know what to say anymore. The split is too deep I think. I don't even know if I can whether this storm.

Thank you for the kind words Wentworth! I'm trying my best.

Updates on the situations at hand: She saw my therapist with me, it was a one time thing, because my therapist had a few resources she wanted to share and wanted to get a bit more of the lay of the land with SO. It went well in my opinion but of course SO has a different agenda. Says she was mean and judge-mental and made her feel worthless. She won't be calling any of the people my therapist gave her. So on and so forth. Now she wants me to stop seeing my therapist, but then she said "don't worry about me I'll be fine." So. I don't know on that front, I can't see my therapist for another two weeks anyway. I'll cross that bridge later.

In regards to the show, I was able to negotiate with the security to keep my phone on me while backstage, cutting down no contact time from 2.5 hours to half an hour. I think this is a reasonable compromise for SO, as I get to keep doing the show and interacting with everyone, and she will not feel lonely. She, however, instead decided that, since I hadn't asked before that calling me a "p... .y" was a good method to go about this. How could I do this? How could I not have asked before? I tried to apply some validation here. I said that I understood how she felt hurt that for three weeks I didn't ask, that I'd probably feel hurt too. That I knew that she was upset because it makes it look like I was doing this to get away from her and that her life didn't matter to me. And I tried to tell her I understood and that I'd be hurt too. But she kept then pushing, calling me unassertive (I'm not really assertive it's something I'm working on) and a p... .y and insulting me as "good boy PurpleFlower, always following the rules! Even if his girlfriend might kill herself." The metaphor about finding buttons and just trampolining on them was a good one pearl. When I said she was hurting me she said "I don't care anymore." God. She doesn't even care if she hurts me anymore. "A lot of stuff isn't looking good for you today, doing the show to escape me, your therapist was a b... .h to me."


I would love if we could walk though this. This specific job, I may turn down. I don't have a set timeline right now as I'm waiting on an email from one of my references, but this job I've realized isn't a great stepping stone and I may be looking for one more coherently related to the degree I have just earned recently. So for other future jobs I feel like this would be a good tool to learn.

PurpleFlower, how is it going? I like what WW is bringing up. It's a good start. How would it sound like, if you were thinking of expressing how you care about her feelings and safety?

A good start for support.

Brave

It sounds like things are really rough right now; I'm sorry to hear that.  Let's set SET aside for the moment and focus on boundaries to reduce the wear and tear on you. 

Let's start with texting.  It's a horrible way to solve problems.  Dysregulated texts from our pwBPD can also do a lot of damage to us.

The first step is to essentially apply mindfulness, and breathe and pause before responding.  Don't get sucked into a conflict.  At the same time, running for the hills and ignoring her could make things worse.  One approach is to text back, "You've said a lot I need to think about, and I want to make sure to give the problems all the care and attention they deserve.  Let's talk about this face-to-face tonight."  After that, you may need to apply a boundary and not respond to more dysregulated texts.  You may even need to put your phone down and walk away from it for a while to get some peace.  Do not just read the texts and feel each one hit you like a bullet.

How do these thoughts seem to you?  Can you give us more background on where you are and what is happening when her texting flares up, and how you've responded?

WW

We got heated, or rather, she did. Said "honestly this is probably the end." And I Was so fed up with trying to depersonalize this I just went "Fine, never contact me again." And she started to block me on everything. I tried my best guys but I think it's over. I think this is it. I think she's split too far on me and it f... .n hurts like hell right now. I just lost the love of my life.

We all make mistakes.  You have a very challenging situation.  This is messy business.  All we can do is do our best and keep on learning.

Can you remind us how hold each of you is?

WW

Yes, younger than most -- I am glad you've found us early.  You are far, far ahead of where I was at your age in understanding about BPD.

The thing that stimulated me to ask about age was you saying that her mom was not "letting" her do things.  She's technically an adult, though is likely enmeshed with her mother quite a bit.  Here mother controlling her indicated boundary trouble, which may be a contributing factor to her having difficulty with your boundaries.

How have things been going in the last day or so?

WW