I was walking away from picking up our child, she came up to me and kissed me

[Sweetpea18]

Well, I just had my first holiday without my ex-wife (Untreated with BPD).  I thought it was going to be much harder than it was.  It's been about two and a half months, and it feels like maybe the worst is behind us.  I have limited contact with her, other than child exchanges, but that will be less now that exchanges will happen at school as opposed to in person.  She is in the midst of a new relationship, and thus has not been charming or really contacting me much at all.  Mostly, via text message and in regards to our child.  I pushed for the schedule change as I wanted to see her less and less, and she was against it for some reason.  I think the trauma bond is getting weaker and weaker, however, something happened at Christmas, that was different.  For the first time in several weeks, as I was walking away from picking up our child, she came up to me and kissed me and told me that she "missed" me.  I didn't say anything to her, but I did tell her, that I think she is feeling that way due to this being our first holiday season alone after getting divorced.  She denied it and left, and nothing else has come of it.  My question is, will there a come a point where the charming will stop all together?  I mean I have gotten very good at "gray-rocking" her and not reacting to her drama and up and down moods/text messages.  I can honestly say that is everyday is getting easier, but there days where I still ruminate and miss "the life/woman I thought I was marrying"  (I now know, that woman did not and no longer exists), and I'm certain those feelings of love were based on enmeshment and trauma, but my hope is that she will eventually just leave me be, and at times, she seems to want to just "mess" with me.  I was the one who left, but we both filed for divorce together, and yes she told me I abandoned her, but she has also been telling me how amazing the new guy is, how happy she is and how they have this great relationship, which stings a bit inside, but I don't let her see that, and stings a lot less now than it did before.  So I guess my question, desire for understanding is, when can I expect for her to totally move on with her new guy and leave me be?  I don't engage her in any hostile way, even though she does and has at times, I don't have any contact with her on a personal level, only in regards to our child.  I don't bother her, text her , call her, involve myself in her life in any way, yet it seems she is not able to do that for me, and I'm unsure why, especially now that she is the happiest she has ever been... .

[Mutt]

Hi Sweetpea18,

I pushed for the schedule change as I wanted to see her less and less, and she was against it for some reason.

It could be because she's not aware of how her behaviours and actions impact those around her or you asking to not see her could be a reminder of her dysfunction and it could be shameful for her. You could say that BPD is a shamed based disorder and it's also an attachment disorder where the pwBPD doesn't completely detach, you said that she is in a r/s with another person how long have they been in a r/s for ? Maybe she's not sure of the r/s yet and she's created an exit plan for herself in case that it doesn't work out.

For the first time in several weeks, as I was walking away from picking up our child, she came up to me and kissed me and told me that she "missed" me.  I didn't say anything to her, but I did tell her, that I think she is feeling that way due to this being our first holiday season alone after getting divorced.  She denied it and left, and nothing else has come of it.

I think that she was probably testing your attachment if she kissed and you responded back affectionately it would tell her that you still have something for her?

My question is, will there a come a point where the charming will stop all together?  

I mean I have gotten very good at "gray-rocking" her and So I guess my question, desire for understanding is, when can I expect for her to totally move on with her new guy and leave me be?

It's not an easy spot that you're in, it's not thoughtful of her at all to tell you about this other guy, you have a history together and it takes time to process everything - you don't hear that and I would want to know to when she shifts focus away from you and completely focuses on the other person. Were you split black? Is she hostile towards you? I'll share a little bit of my experience my ex had an affair with a man and left me for him and she was extremely angry towards me because that's how she processes grief, I'm completely split black and she can't see any good parts in me, she's triggered by shame for another failed r/s and a failed marriage her first and mine too.

I'm like you I act indifferent and I don't give her attention and she came up to me and asked me to be friends for the sake of the kids because she was starting to see the imperfections in the new r/s and was creating an exit plan. I got angry because of all of the hurt and pain that she put me through and she wants to be friends. I've read different stories from members where their pwBPD are still chasing them after the r/s is over, everyone is different but when she starts to split him black and treat him the same way that she was treating you'll be out of the fire and he'll be in the fire. It's tough I know especially when you're knee deep in pain and you're show very little if any empathy, keep doing what you're doing with being indifferent and don't engage in conflict because it will be a source of soothing for her and it shows her that you're attached to her. Hang in there.

[Tsultan]

Sweetpea18,  I think it's great that you are able to detach.  I am not even 100% sure after 8 mos of our split that if my exBPDbf started engaging with me that I wouldn't turn to puddy.  He has that kind of power over me still I think.  Even though I know it's not a healthy relationship.  Some day I will get there. :/  You are a strong person.

Mutt,  I really enjoy reading your insights.  I learn so much from them.  It's interesting that you say "don't engage in conflict because it will be a source of soothing for her".  I noticed my exBPDbf created all sorts of drama. But then projected that onto others saying they were the ones creating the drama.  (boy I don't miss that!)  Anyway, what do you think it is about the conflict that is soothing to them?  I'm curious.  Is it because when we react that they might get some sort of relief from it because they are controlling us?  Because I noticed towards the end of our relationship when I understood more of why he did certain things that I was able to detach and not take his behavior personally.  He was unable to get that rise out of me.  Maybe it got boring for him and that's why he moved on.  Anyway,  I don't want to hijack this thread any longer I could go on.

Keep on doing what you are doing Sweetpea18!  That is very inspiring. 

Thanks.

Tsultan

[Turkish]

Two years  after we split, my ex hugged me around Christmas. Agree left me for another guy and married him.  I later learned that she had issues with him. A year later she asked to come back.

These things are confusing to say the least... .

How do you feel?

I felt validated but also angry. 

[Mutt]

Hi Tsultan,

Mutt,  I really enjoy reading your insights.  I learn so much from them.  It's interesting that you say "don't engage in conflict because it will be a source of soothing for her".  I noticed my exBPDbf created all sorts of drama. But then projected that onto others saying they were the ones creating the drama.  (boy I don't miss that!)  Anyway, what do you think it is about the conflict that is soothing to them?

I'm glad that you enjoy reading my posts   A pwBPD can't self regulate or self sooth, have low tolerance for stress they take it out on the people that are closest to them because we're tempered for it.

For example I've been out of the r/s with my exuBPDw for almost 6 years now and still from time to time she'll try to bait because she's trying to sooth herself. I'm her exH I'm not the closest person to her, I don't have an obligation and I don't want to send her the message that when she's emotionally dysregulated, feels anxiety or stress that I'm a source of soothing for her. A pwBPD will test your boundaries and that's why every so often she'll keep testing them.

Back to Sweetpea18 you have the right idea don't let her come to you for soothing she's your STBx let her turn to her go to the new guy.

[Tsultan]

Wow!  That makes so much sense Mutt. 

Thank you!

[Sweetpea18]

Thanks everyone, it’s good to hear the differing perspectives. Fortunately, she seems to be super involved with the new guy and only had contact with me when she is at work or not with him. I was able to detach myself with understanding of time. It’s hard I still ruminate on things, but it gets easier with time. She tries to engage under the guise of our child, but I know it’s to soothe whatever issue she has elsewhere. I honestly felt like she was my 3rd child, so I don’t miss having to take care of her like a child. I guess I need to presume her charming maybe something I’ll have to deal with on occasion in the future. Mutt, I wasn’t split black per se, but I was the one who left her, left the marriage, sold the house and But I let her finalize the divorce. I could tell it would be better for her to think she decided the end of the whole thing and not me. She blames me for abandoning her, but her abuse, addiction, violence toward my child (not hers) was the straw for me, and as hard as it has been for me and apparently easy for her, I didnt want my kids to live in that life any more. She calls once a week to ask me to pray for her or with her on some issue, medical condition, or drama she manifests, and depending on the tone of the conversation, I will, but I really limit the discussion to child issues and NEVER ask her about her or her life. She likes to rub her happiness in my face, but I don’t engage her and care less and less with each passing day. A positive with the idealizing she is doing with the new guy is that I’m spending more time with our child and building that bond stronger, so hopefully that will help when she realizes her mom has issues, she will have me to fall back on. The hardest part of her moving on was the notion in my head that she was and would be the wife/partner to the new guy that she wasn’t for me, despite all I did for her in the 7 years we were together... .that she would take the mistakes with me and apply them to Him. As I have found here and in reading and learning about untreated BPD, I can see, that most likely won’t be the case, which brings a small comfort for me... .

[once removed]

I really limit the discussion to child issues and NEVER ask her about her or her life.

i think this is a good idea, especially in the detaching process.

how is co-parenting going? how are the kids doing?

[Sweetpea18]

Co parenting is very difficult at times with her.  I still find myself walking on egg shells with her, for which I cant explain.  She wants to get along with me, but I think struggles how to separate her anger and frustration with our divorce and just getting along with me for our child.  We had a fight last night as I asked her to watch our child on a day I was due to a medical procedure, she said no, despite me watching our child for 7 straight days for her medical procedure.  I was frustrated, and had a rare relapse where I engaged her and made a comment about how she has been lacking as a mother (it's true, since she got with new guy, she is fixated on him and sees our child less and hands her off to family while they travel and do stuff, I know this, but hadn't said anything, cause there is nothing I can do, and I'm trying to focus on things I can control).  Well then she tried to silent tx me, which was fine, I didn't respond and actually preferred the silent tx.  Well then she called my work, my phone until I finally answered.  I did a mea culpa and apologized for the side comment, because it wasn't necessary, and in a way I poked the bear to so to speak, and she was pleasant, but then all of a sudden she started talking about our divorce and how she didn't want to have surgery "hating" me in case she "died".  And I asked, why would you hate me?  I didn't do her dirty, she was cheating, not me, our divorce was fairly amicable (A rare accomplishment with an untreated BPD I hear).  We exchange the kid without issues, I don't call or text her or bother her, I have to listen to her tell me how new supply is better, makes her happy, takes on trips, puts her first, etc, and despite all that, I still no longer engage (we used to fight a lot and I would always "defend" myself, but realized after it was over, the fighting is what she liked/needed, and now I really try hard not to engage.  So I told her that is good, I'm glad she is happy and see everything works out in the end, but then she went off on something in my past again and the same anger and vitriol came back out.  She said I dont want to hate you in case I die, and I said, Ok, I dont hate you, not sure why you would hate me (She didn't give me an answer why she "hates"), and I hung up... .

[once removed]

She wants to get along with me, but I think struggles how to separate her anger and frustration with our divorce and just getting along with me for our child.

its hard... .there is almost always a lot of hurt and anger after a divorce... .a person blames their partner... .they blame themselves and that doesnt feel good so in turn they blame their partner. it may get better, it may not, or it may rear its head from time to time, its hard to say.

have you worked at learning any of the co-parenting tools here?

[Sweetpea18]

Not as much, we have very limited contact, and it has been a couple months since the last "issues".  I understand that she is not going to be logical about things the way I am.  I guess I really thought when she got serious with him, which it appears to be from all she has told me, things would improve with us as she would not be so angry.  I was hurt and angry too, but I have worked hard on me with exercise, counseling, friends, and purposely, have tried to treat her well with respect.  I didn't let her see how bad it was for me, but it was brutal.  The trauma bond was very strong, and some days I still struggle with it, but it's better cause I don't have to see her.  But my counselor told me that since I left her, and she is untreated, that she will try to charm, interrupt and cause problems for years to come, and it took the wind out of my sails that is for sure... .