Anybody else facing non contact with a teenager? (My daughter)

[Parents! Get help here!]

Good Evening from the UK

I have had a rocky 2 and a half years with my 16 an a half year old daughter (she has a twin brother) and 2 older siblings (young adults living away from home). Issues have included: truancy, exclusion from school, running away repeatedly, stealing, self-harm, risky behaviours (drinking and drugs), bullying (her and a group of friends targeting others) arrests, assault, criminal damage, older men grooming her for criminal/sexual exploitation purposes, lying, twisting everything I say and do etc etc. In her view, I am the sole and only source of all the above as I have "scarred her for life".   We are finally receiving support - from social services and Child and Adult Mental Health Services
.
For the past 6 weeks, she has been staying at my mum and stepdads. I am trying to rebuild my life and am slowly making positive changes for myself and her brother. She is choosing to be NC with me and I am respecting that as when I tell her I love her she perceives that as me controlling and manipulating her so I have stepped out of the circus because my own mental health was becoming poor.

However... .am I doing more damage by not contacting her to reassure her? Am I being selfish having a break at my mum and stepdad's expense ? Am I triangulating her by having a nice calm time with her brother?  She accuses me of loving him more. I don't - he's just easier to have a positive relationship with. Is that a mean thing to say? I feel confused.

Can anyone relate? Advise? x  

[Hopeful456]

Good Evening from the UK

I have had a rocky 2 and a half years with my 16 an a half year old daughter (she has a twin brother) and 2 older siblings (young adults living away from home). Issues have included: truancy, exclusion from school, running away repeatedly, stealing, self-harm, risky behaviours (drinking and drugs), bullying (her and a group of friends targeting others) arrests, assault, criminal damage, older men grooming her for criminal/sexual exploitation purposes, lying, twisting everything I say and do etc etc. In her view, I am the sole and only source of all the above as I have "scarred her for life".   We are finally receiving support - from social services and Child and Adult Mental Health Services
.
For the past 6 weeks, she has been staying at my mum and stepdads. I am trying to rebuild my life and am slowly making positive changes for myself and her brother. She is choosing to be NC with me and I am respecting that as when I tell her I love her she perceives that as me controlling and manipulating her so I have stepped out of the circus because my own mental health was becoming poor.

However... .am I doing more damage by not contacting her to reassure her? Am I being selfish having a break at my mum and stepdad's expense ? Am I triangulating her by having a nice calm time with her brother?  She accuses me of loving him more. I don't - he's just easier to have a positive relationship with. Is that a mean thing to say? I feel confused.

Can anyone relate? Advise? x  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Music Ace]

Hopeful456 - although I don't have twins, I totally identify with your need for reassurance to know that YES ... .it IS easier to parent, enjoy the company of, essentially LIKE a person who is pleasant, not verbally abusive, and not making morally challenging decisions.

You have every right in the world to find it easier to be with one person over another.

As for the guilt it sounds that you are feeling with the break and serenity you are experiencing with your youngest daughter staying with your mum.  I IMPLORE YOU ... .please PLEASE take this opportunity to to rebuild yourself, find support for you and your son, and please enjoy this serenity. 

I am a rookie here. I know others will be able to reassure you with their wisdom too.

Until then, enjoy EVERY second of serenity that comes your way.

Ace

[Only Human]

I'm here to say I can relate, Hopeful, you are not alone. My DS28 is a joy to be around at all times, I look forward to his calls, texts, spending time with him. DD25, not so much , though it's getting better since I found BPD Family.

Enjoying the break, rebuilding your life, bonding with your son, taking care of you - It's not only not wrong, it's right! 

How does she express to you that she perceives, "I love you," as you controlling and manipulating her? What does she say? Has she explicitly said, "Don't contact me"?

As Music Ace said, "enjoy every second of serenity that comes your way."

~ OH

[Hopeful456]

Thank you. I absolutely did need reassurance and I cried with relief when I read your responses.

My daughter gives mixed messages and very clear direct ones. She used to absolutely love that I could anticipate what her "true" need/mood was (at that precise point anyway = it could all turn on a sixpence in minutes). I have wondered if I fed the best doing that. Only in hindsight though. At the time I was able to do that my sole intention was to make her feel validated and understood.

She has completely turned on me and is attempting to convince both family members and professionals that I am her issue. I'm a big one, but not exclusively so.


She last contacted me to say I was dead to her and that she know longer wanted contact with someone who had "deliberately permanently scarred" her and told me not to communicate with her". When I responded to say I respected her choice but wanted to let her know I loved her and always would, she called me a dumb bitch and asked me if I was "thick".  Yet, 2 days later when she sobbed at the Child Protection Conference, I instinctively when to hug her and she leant into and wept while I kissed her head. Then during the meeting blamed me for all her issues again. I sent her a message after she walked out of the same conference - when she saw the police file listing all her dad's criminal history. She knew a tiny fraction of it. I knew he had committed crimes as a teenager but has continued to do so post our break up. It devastated her - as it would any child.


I sent her a message I love you and I always will minutes after she had walked out. She ignored it, blocked me, her sister and her twin on all forms of social media and I have stopped trying (temporarily) as I have focussed on my other 3 kids who I have neglected during the past 2 and a half years.

Do you think I should reach out? I sometimes wonder whether it's emotional self-flagellation to keep putting myself above the parapet for more abuse. 

[Hopeful456]

And to answer the question - she has told her mental health nurse that she believes I manipulate her by being nice to her. She has also said on occasions after I have said I love her - "Don't manipulate me!"

[Feeling Better]

Hi Hopeful456 

First off, I want to let you know that I can relate to what you have written 

I am so pleased for you that you are finally receiving support, I know how difficult that can sometimes be here in the UK.

For the past 6 weeks, she has been staying at my mum and stepdads. I am trying to rebuild my life and am slowly making positive changes for myself and her brother. She is choosing to be NC with me and I am respecting that as when I tell her I love her she perceives that as me controlling and manipulating her so I have stepped out of the circus because my own mental health was becoming poor.

Presumably your daughter is safe while she is staying with your mum and stepdad, so hopefully that brings you some comfort. I know how hard it is when a child rejects his/her parent and decides to go NC, I have had to deal with this myself, although my uBPD son is much older than your daughter, and the pain at times can seem almost unbearable.
You recognise that your own mental health is suffering and you know that you have to make changes in your life, both for yourself and your son, her twin brother. You may find counselling very helpful. I underwent a twelve week counselling course through the NHS in January last year and am so glad that I decided to take that step. I saw it as an important part of my own self care

However... .am I doing more damage by not contacting her to reassure her? Am I being selfish having a break at my mum and stepdad's expense ? Am I triangulating her by having a nice calm time with her brother?  She accuses me of loving him more. I don't - he's just easier to have a positive relationship with. Is that a mean thing to say? I feel confused.

It’s difficult to say whether you may or may not be doing more damage by contacting your daughter. I had the same confusion over contacting my son, when he asked me to leave him alone. Although feeling broken-hearted because of his request, I did leave it 4-5 months before I contacted him again. I’m not suggesting that is what you should do, however, your daughter might be needing time for processing her thoughts. I always say “go with your gut”.

I don’t think that you are being selfish at your mum and stepdad’s expense unless you have reason to think otherwise.

You are not triangulating by enjoying your time with your son. Are you possibly feeling some guilt?

No, it’s not mean to say that it’s easier to have a positive relationship with your son. It’s the truth.

She last contacted me to say I was dead to her and that she know longer wanted contact with someone who had "deliberately permanently scarred" her and told me not to communicate with her". When I responded to say I respected her choice but wanted to let her know I loved her and always would, she called me a dumb bitch and asked me if I was "thick".  Yet, 2 days later when she sobbed at the Child Protection Conference, I instinctively when to hug her and she leant into and wept while I kissed her head. Then during the meeting blamed me for all her issues again.

I have experienced this too, my son once told me that I was dead to him, it’s heartbreaking.
My son would constantly do what you have described here, one minute let me in and the next revert back to the blaming again. So confusing. And frustrating.

And to answer the question - she has told her mental health nurse that she believes I manipulate her by being nice to her. She has also said on occasions after I have said I love her - "Don't manipulate me!"

I may be wrong but to me it sounds like your daughter has issues with trust, my son has the same issues.

FB x

[Hopeful456]

Hi Feeling Better

Long complicated history aside; if my daughter does have trust issues, I can see why and how I have contributed to them. It's actually helpful to see the constant push me, pull you as a by-product of trust/lack thereof.

I am feeling guilty because I'm responsible for some of her unhappy memories. Maybe lots of them - to her.

I feel shame because, right now, I really really don't like her.

I am also feeling guilty and because I am so sick of feeling guilty; I have zero energy to play the blame, blame, guilt, shame game.   

I love spending time with my son and the house is so calm. He has been so unhappy and stressed and his college tutor has been concerned. We both became very isolated and lonely as there was so much drama it consumed everything. I have begun to go out occasionally and it has been so so lovely. Her brother has friends round and spends time downstairs- instead of constantly staying in his bedroom.

We have a planning meeting next week with Children's Services, Camhs and Youth Offending Team so I can focus on that. I will carry on as I am till then. x   

[Music Ace]

Hopeful456 - may I offer something my therapist said to me after a particularly hard run with my daughter and my considering that I was truly the reason my child was suffering and she had every right to point out all the awful things I had done and how I was worth nothing ... .to anyone!

She said ... .ask your other daughter, ask your coworkers, (for me - ask your students as I am teacher) ... .ask ANYONE and see if they validate that you are the awful human (hmm a waste of space or oxygen) or worthy of being offered a slow lonely painful death. 

Now, if the majority agree - perhaps some self reflection is in order ... .but, if it is only the opinion of ONE mentally unstable (in my case, drug addicted), very ill individual - then, perhaps it is THEIR interpretation and view that is warped or jaded.

The fact that you are already working to right things and admitting you have made mistakes shows you are on a path to improvement.

Your son may well be breathing a big sigh of relief because his sister is draining him at this moment.  From what I gather, he has NOT asked you not to contact him or to stay out of his life ... .but he is questioning his relationship with his twin (his TWIN!)  Is there any other connection quite so intertwined and deep as twins? Yet he is not defending her actions, he is not siding with her against you, but I expect he is some ticked with her, frustrated, crushed, disappointed ... .all those things that you are ... .but he KNOWS he's not responsible for her behaviour. You're her mum, you feel responsible.

Now I want to challenge you.

Do you also own all his choices? All those great fun mature responsible choices he is making at 16 ... .is every single thing he does, your responsibility? ORRRRR (as I suspect is the case), do you give him the credit he so rightly deserves?

I'm often considered a black or white thinker  ... .taking that into consideration  ... .If I'm going to own/take responsibility for all the bad behavior and choices of my eldest, I therefore must take credit for my younger child's amazing successes too. She doesn't get to have any credit for those either.

Obviously, this is an over the top way to approach ... .but that's TRULY what I have to remind myself of when I get sucked back into questioning my contributions to my childrens' lives and choices.Thank goodness my therapist was willing to challenge me like that (I call it my kick in the pants).

I hope that you, too, can find a way to see that you are not, nor ever will be, completely responsible for the actions of another human being (beyond an infant in your care). I pray that in time, you will be able to hear and truly accept the positives you have offered in other people's lives.

We are here for that pick me up when you're knocked down.

Ace

[Hopeful456]

Hi Music Ace

That was such a great response - and so thought -provoking.

I have always been a reflective thinker - sadly mostly after the event. It's difficult not to go down the rabbit hole with binge thinking!

I will read and reread all these replies when I am feeling self-doubt - which I have been prone to since childhood anyway.

Thank you everyone x

[Mirsa]

Hi,
I thought I would share bc I am going through something similar with my DD17.   According to her, I was the "world's best mother" for 3 years, while she engaged in every behavior in the book:  drinking, drugging, shoplifting, promiscuity, you name it!  I was her advocate, ally, got her support at school, therapy, in patient, out-of-patient programs, etc.  She refused to speak to her father for 18 months, requested NC with him.  With all the support, we finally turned it around for her and she started to do better in school, kept a part-time job, etc. 

A few months ago, she started dated a young man she said was 20 (turns out he's actually 21) and she wanted to bring him into her bedroom, go to his apt., etc.  I said no, and kept to that boundary.  After a week of her relentless bullying on the topic, she comes home and says that she is going to move in with her dad, "because she just needs a break from all the drama with me and her sister." (projecting)  Her dad allowed her to have the man in her bedroom, and he saved $1500/month in child support by doing so.  Within two weeks, I became an awful mother, and this is called 'splitting.'  It's when the BPD makes a person either 100% wonderful, or 100% awful.  There is no grey, only black and white.

My experience is the same as your:  the house has magically become a peaceful oasis of calmness ever since she moved out!   The younger sister and I are amazed by this and beginning to heal.  I honestly had no idea her BPD drama was affecting us both so much until it was gone!   Now that I've had this epiphany, I am seizing on this opportunity for her to stay out of the house with both fists.  Like you, I also feel guilty about it.  However, it was her choice to leave and then to badmouth me, and then to stop talking to me. 

So, three thoughts:  #1--I've realized that my younger daughter is watching me.  I am modeling for her how to set limits and healthy boundaries.  So now when I feel those twinges of guilt at enjoying this 'time off,' I think about how important it is that I parent my younger daughter in this way.   I think, "I don't want her to let people treat her like a dishrag.  I don't want her to get into a relationship with a significant other where she doesn't respect herself enough to demand decent treatment."   

Sometimes it's easier to think, 'what type of treatment from others would I want my child to insist upon?'   For me, it's easier to allow myself to be treated poorly, than to allow someone to treat my child poorly.  But why on earth should that be the case?  I didn't sign up for decades of emotional abuse the day I got pregnant.  Which leads me to #2--It's perfectly okay for me to want to be treated well by others. And that includes by my adult children.  Thus, here is my newest mantra:  I deserve to be treated with love & kindness.     

Lastly, #3:   I don't think it helps my BPD daughter to learn that her awful treatment of me  (or others) is in any way productive or acceptable.  Quite the opposite in fact.  So, the best gift I can give to myself, my younger daughter, and my BPD daughter is to insist on being treated well by everyone in my life, including BPD DD. 

I would say, enjoy the break.  During the time and space you've been granted, heal, find peace, and think about what limits are right for you when (not if) the BPD wants back into your life.  In my case, I've decided that she will not live in my home again.  I will love and support her in other ways, but my home is now a sacrosanct place of refuge for both myself and my younger DD.   We deserve peace, and so do you.

[Hopeful456]

Hey Mirsa x

I have only this morning read your response and wanted to say thank you very much. I have long stopped sharing with many (if any) people in my real life world as 2 of her siblings - her twin included- are completely sick of her - while her eldest brother who lives with his fiancée 250 miles away is detached from it all and tends to minimise my concerns.  Plus my uBPD daughter has launched a charm offensive on him which he is a sucker for. People tend not to get MH or PD issues unless they have experienced them at close quarters so I choose not to expose my daughter or myself to other people's ignorance or well-meaning but judgemental commentary.

It has been quite busy here and we had a really great 2 weeks where she came back home (unannounced ) and stayed for 2 weeks. We went with it but her twin was really resentful that she got to just come home with no discussion of the events which led her to my mum's. He felt that I had put her need to be included and loved over his need for peace and stability. Tricky one that - over the past 3 years I have found that if I help one, I hurt the other. Oh the joys of single parenting twins!


 She went back to my mum's when I challenged her around smoking weed in the house. The upstairs stank so she wasn't even discrete about it. My main concern was that while she feels it helps, our experience is that it makes her so much worse and I gently shared with her that she won't know if her prescribed medication (Risperidone) is working if she also self-medicates. She screamed "so what? " It was her choice and her life. She then started with her mantra that no one is helping her and I've never done anything other than abuse her and let her down. Ad infinitum. Her usual - it's not me it's everyone else, I've been abused, nothing is ever my fault etc etc.

I also challenged this while still validating that while I could see she felt let down - people had tried to help on many occasions and she actually has a team (trying to)
work with her at the moment. (Social Worker, mental health nurse etc). She said that she doesn't need their help and they make her worse. Thing is she has very little tolerance or resilience so if things implemented don't work fairly instantly then she disengages and says no one is helping her. It's an exhausting cycle. I was relieved when she decided to go back to my mum's and felt that I had at least given my mum and stepdad a break from her.

It has now been like this for a while. She shuttles between me and my mum. If mum says or does something she doesn't like, she comes here and vice versa. Sometimes it lasts 2 weeks, sometimes 2 days. Mum and I have agreed that we are in a holding pattern and it's better this way - as the alternatives have included her going out and staying out without contact or even at one stage her running away to London and staying with a criminal gang who attempted to groom her. It's not ideal but in the absence of a formal diagnosis or more specialist intervention it's all we have. We are reliant on the NHS and Social Services and both are chronically underfunded. My daughter will frequently not engage with her appointments and there is a very real risk they will do the legal minimum but then sign her off her Child Protection Plan on the basis that she hasn't run away for 6 weeks and has met with them the legal bare minimum - so job done.

My concern is that she isn't not running away because she recognises the very real dangers but because she has burnt her bridges with people in London as she brought the police to their door (by virtue of her being reported missing by me) so she's too risky to have there. Plus many of her friends/frenemies who accompanied her are now either pregnant, trying to turn their life around or on her "list" of evil people she never wants to talk to again.

That isn't progress; that's a lack of opportunity. Her underlying issues are still a ticking time bomb in my opinion. She's not at college, not working, stays up till 4/5am and sleeps till 3pm, and is seeing a mental health nurse and a social worker once a week each if that. She will frequently cancel on them and then lie and say they've rescheduled. Plus she will play the game really well when with them and say enough things which they can tick off on their recording sheets. I work in Adult Social Services so I know that if a case can be closed and resources allocated elsewhere they will be. There isn't the time or money to think of the big picture.

I have gone off tangent big time but I have to say thank you. My home is (right now) an oasis of calm. It's lovely. I find it very telling that when she does choose to go back up to my mum's, I breathe properly and feel, physically and emotionally, very different than I do when she's here. As does her twin. 


This weekend my son is visiting my eldest son and daughter and my UBPD daughter is at my mum's. I have invited her to come out with me today to a Chinese Lantern Parade and then go and have waffles. She may ignore me. She may agree. I want to make an effort with her but I am not tolerating the abuse and I will not keep defending myself or continually apologising for mistakes. I have owned the mistakes I have made and wholly acknowledged I got things badly wrong at points to her, her siblings and the professionals involved. I have apologised for the real mistakes and validated her feelings around mistakes I didn't even know I had made. I have worked hard to respond in calmer, more positive ways. I have researched and read up on how I can be more supportive and put things in place. I will continue to do that, but I have my limits. And after many years of tolerating similar behaviours and abuse from
her father and his mother (despite being separated from him since she was a baby) I no longer have the wherewithal to ride the rollercoaster.

 I have asked for forgiveness and said I will work to put things right - as I have been doing for many years. It's just ridiculously difficult to move forward with someone who seems to want to stay stuck as it gives her a warped kind of power to repeatedly blame and shame me and I battle with low self-esteem and guilt so need to protect myself with clear limits. And it's even more difficult when many of her accusations are frankly, crazy-making and change daily/according to her whims.

This is a long haul journey so need to preserve my energies as I feel we are only at the beginning of it all. I will take all the pockets of peace I can get and enjoy them! They help my son and I enormously xx

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Mirsa]

I'm so glad to hear you are enjoying the peace and serenity to be found in your home in her absence.   For my part, I've committed to my 15yo DD that I will not allow the older BPD DD to return to the home.  It does upset my younger daughter, who has started to thrive in her absence.  I had loyalty to both children until the older BPD DD rejected my parenting.  Now I feel that my loyalty is appropriately with my younger DD.  And to myself.  There's no rule on the planet that says we have to live in chaos of another's making, even if it's an adult child. 
Best wishes to you in maintaining the equanimity of your home.  Again I say, you deserve it!