What if it was me all along, that won’t let her fall in love with me?

[Red5]

Star date 43+15,

The intermittent... .semi constant ruminations continue.

As I continue to deconstruct, and think ever deeper, and what am I uncovering... .from this fresh grave.

Is it, was it me all along?

Was I far too damaged, from my first marriage, is uBPDw right, in that I projected onto her, all my anger and mistrust from the failure of my first marriage.

Am I really codependent... .

But what about her, she also has over two decades of a previous marriage... .

Am I paying “his” diner bill at the same time, as he’s paying mine... .in her head?

This post projection rumination... .it’s driving me mad!

Was I really what she claims me to be... .or is it a “faction” maybe “radical” of her suspected BPD?

As fast as “I think it”... .I write it down, for the next session with ‘Major Tom’... .

This guy is pretty salty... .told me a story of a BPD woman, he said, and I quote... .“Red, she could quote line and verse from every DBT work book right there in that book shelf where you coat is hanging... .but she said she didn’t need any of it... .last I heard, she was living in her car, at the Walmart in Wilson”... .I asked “how old was she Major”, .he said at the time, she was fortyish... .and she was married to a doctor here in town”... .

High functioning, low functioning, .spectrum... .

Wow, .

This is an endless universe... .

Red5

[GaGrl]

Hitting the mason jar tonight, my friend?

... .you are doubting yourself and your exprinces, not staying in touch with your values.

She struck your adult, disabled child.

[Red5]

Hitting the mason jar tonight, my friend?

... .you are doubting yourself and your exprinces, not staying in touch with your values.

She struck your adult, disabled child.

Hot Toddy in a Campbell soup cup... .it’s 30’ish here in the fisherman’s paradise tonight... .

I’m in “ I coulda saved everybody mode “

I hear you Georgia Girl !

My son will say to me, “Q” moved out daddy” ... .and I will,respond... .“ yes ‘J’ she did” ... .and I will say, .”if she gets better, do you want her to come home”... .he will respond every time (Echolalia)... .”no daddy, she’ll stay in “new port”... .

... .“ does she love me daddy”... .he will say,

My heart breaks... .Jesus... .Lord and Savoir... .

Sobering... .

Red5

[Red5]

She struck your adult, disabled child.

Thank you Gagrl,

I need to print this out, laminate it, and carry it round with me.

This sux so bad, how could I have not known, .

I should have seen this clear back in 2009/10, before we married in 2011.

I’ve enabled this... .

I need to push her away,

So heartrending... .

Red5

[JNChell]

I’ll echo Gagrl and you by saying that she hit your autistic son. I understand how you’re feeling, but in your own words, that’s a deal breaker. Nobody hits our children, Red. Imagine how enraged you might become if you ever witnessed her doing that again.

The ruminations are really hard, man. They will ease after more time passes. Rely on your T and us. Both are here for you. When you ruminate, type. What is on your mind right now?

[Red5]

What is on your mind right now?

Me and the boy are sitting in Church, left side, five pews back from the front : )

Pastor is going to preach on Proverbs 3, verses 5-6.

It’s the part of the service... .“prayers for concerns and victories”.

I silently pray for my wife, among all the others mentioned... .

It’s a rainy day outside... .kind of dark and dreary... .

I am very thankful for my Church family,

Hope all is well with you JNChell,

Red5

 

[GaGrl]

The violence is often the point the person with BPD is viewed differently, that is the "crossing the line" point.

My DH's ex-wife (my reason for joining this forum) was never violent with her bio children or with DH... .not sure the reason there, because she was violent in other situations. Her first arrest was when DH was posted in Germany - she refused to go, and during one of her affairs, she took a tire iron to the boyfriend's windshield. That resulted in a peace bond. The arrest that resulted in an orange jumpsuit was when she argued with another boyfriend over an unpaid debt and chased him with a gun. DH knows of other gun incidents or threats that did not result in arrests.

But the incident that caused DH to know she could no longer be trusted with the children without his close supervision happened with their adopted daughter. She is actually the ex's niece from Thailand, and she was adopted and brought to the U.S. at age 13. The grandmother told Ex to raise her in the traditional Thai manner, which was then warped by Ex into overly strict and controlling rules. D was required to wear her long hair up, no loose hair. Well, you know what a teen is going to do... .as soon as she got on the school bus, the hair came down, and it went back up before coming home each day.    

Ex found out what D16 was doing, confronted her, then HELD HER DOWN AND CHOPPED OFF HER HAIR WITH SEWING SHEARS.

That crossed the line. The school counselor got involved, which got CPS involved. DH was posted 100 miles away and was commuting on weekends (Ex refused to go with him to most assignments), so he had to show up for a series of meetings and interviews. He was furious at Ex's actions (he is a gentle man but has a temper).

Result -- No more physical discipline was tolerated, but D moved out the day she turned 18. Ex moved out to live with her latest BF, leaving DH with the three children. DH went from active to reserve, turning down an XO assignment in Central America that would have sent him next to the Pentagon.

Messing with the children trumps all else.

[Mutt]

Hi Red5,

As I continue to deconstruct, and think ever deeper, and what am I uncovering ... .from this fresh grave.

Is it, was it me all along?

Was I far too damaged, from my first marriage, is uBPDw right, in that I projected onto her, all my anger and mistrust from the failure of my first marriage.

Am I really codependent... .

These ruminations are you having thoughts about how you could have saved the r/s?  Are you thinking that your projections  are the catalyst for the failure of the r/s?  Are you thinking maybe if I had done X and Y then we probably wouldn’t have broken up?

[Red5]

Hi Red5,

These ruminations are you having thoughts about how you could have saved the r/s?  Are you thinking that your projections  are the catalyst for the failure of the r/s?  Are you thinking maybe if I had done X and Y then we probably wouldn’t have broken up?

Evening Mutt,

Yes, I am... .I wrote here a while back, .what if I'd had the perceived knowledge I have now, when we first starting having problems, ie' her anger issues, after we married in 2011.

I am speaking to the "tools" we learn/ed here.

But I think that by the time I tried to use these new found tools, the relationship was already too far gone.

I did a whole lot wrong for years, as in I fought back, and tried to make her see the error of her ways... ."why are you so ANGRY all the time Q"... .God, I can still hear myself trying to reason with her... .

Even her own foo told her to "chill out"... .yeah ; (

I messed things up pretty good for a long time... .I've gone back and read my first posts here... .wow, sobering how bad things were even back then.

She told me, "you did not scream at your ex-wife the way you scream at me".

That's not entirely true... .I never had to "scream" at my ex to "leave him alone"... .as in my autistic son.

She would tell me that also, ."you let your ex wife get away with all that she did to you... .but you don't let me step out of line even a little".

Another point of historical factoid rewritten... .my ex never verbally, or physically abused my (our) children... .I was the indirect collateral damage of her "acting out"... .ie' stepping out, to see other men... .leaving us, abandoning us, me and the three children... .she didn't mean any harm by it, she was just trying to escape her inner demons... .unleashed on her by sexual abuse at the hands of her brother, and uncle, and a step dad, age 5-12... .she was severely damaged, but at eighteen, when I married her (she was barely seventeen), I was clueless.

Back to the present... .uBPDw also obviously has a lot of inner child core damage, "mommy and daddy issues"... .then she comes after me, (manipulative anger) my son, my other two kids (grown) her son, her own daughter, her sisters, her mom... .whoever... .

She was also a child bride, marrying a soldier and leaving the foo home for Germany... .at sixteen... .that is a  ... .her exH was seven years older than her, so add seven to sixteen, and they dated for about two years... .do that math... .

So she came after us all... .for whatever reasons... .and I told her to "stop"... .when she didn't, I used my "male voice"... .she calls this screaming,  I don't... .she was the one that screamed... .I used the same voice I used to use when I was "correcting" young Marines... .which was not the right thing to do.

I was extremely invalidating, I JADE'ed... .like my life depended on it (marriage)... .as I said, I did everything wrong.

See, it was far too late for tools... .I had already unwittingly let the concrete cure with impurities in it... .our marriage took a lot of damage, we were extremely toxic together, .even her own foo mum described us together as "explosive"... .

I look back, how many times did I tell myself, "not again"... .no more abuse, this has to stop, who is she, .why is she acting like this... .-> fear of abandonment / engulfment <-... .she was fighting for her emotional life I guess... .the more I tried to pull her in, the more she fought me off... .

I understood too late, and then I enabled her... .resulting in the end... .in her striking my Son.

Are you thinking maybe if I had done X and Y then we probably wouldn’t have broken up?

Yes, I am struggling with this right now... .even after all of it... .I still think I could (can) save her... .

I spoke of the possibility of marriage counseling, therapy, .to identify, learn to x-y-z... .put us back together, .marriage vows... .she flatly refused... .a resounding NO!

As Gagrl and JNChell wrote... .

Messing with the children trumps all else... .She struck your adult, disabled child.

The difference is... .she is not helpless, she has the capacity to take care of herself... .whereas my Son, he does not, he will always depend on me for his daily supportive care... .and I think that she is in some way jealous of this (BPD)... .he can in no way whatsoever take care of himself, he is a forever toddler, in a grown mans body.

... .now add, she is st-age iv r-c-c... .the stats say, there is an 8% survival rate of five years, after dx, for st-age iv... .she was dx in the summer of 2016.

... .FOG,

... .tough stuff Mutt... .

Thanks for listening,

Red5


 

[Mutt]

I’m sorry to hear that she has cancer and that you’re recovery from the break up at the same time. That’s tough.

what if I'd had the perceived knowledge I have now, when we first starting having problems, ie' her anger issues, after we married in 2011.

I am speaking to the "tools" we learn/ed here.

But I think that by the time I tried to use these new found tools, the relationship was already too far gone.

Let’s say that you had the tools and more knowledge and awareness would you have still stayed in the r/s? Would you initially get involved at the onset of you knew what you knew now?

I’m going to quote Skip here a r/s is hundreds of thousands of transactions that go back and forth between two people. Usually it’s not one event that was the cause of the break up unless something happened early in the r/s like cheating that may go against your core values.

Its an accumulation of all of these transactions over time that eventually leads to the breakdown of the r/s. You’ve probably heard this before a r/s takes two people two equal parts, of an ex is too emotionally immature to own their part of the r/s it still belongs to them. Just own your side which is what you are doing from I can hear but don’t put all of the blame on yourself.

The tools that you’ve learned here and the experiences that you’ve learned from this r/s are tools that you can utilize going forward. We can’t back and change things, I can relate with thinking about different memories and scenarios and replaying them “What if I had done this instead” as I said earlier there is not one event that was the reason there were many many transactions from both of you.

I did a whole lot wrong for years, as in I fought back, and tried to make her see the error of her ways ... ."why are you so ANGRY all the time Q" ... .God, I can still hear myself trying to reason with her ...

You didn’t know what the problem was at the time mental illness is difficult to spot maybe you weren’t in the space at the time or aware enough to detect it.

I’m not saying that were doctors but you probably enough now that there’s something wrong which is enough. If you have boundaries and limits then you’re probably not going to make the same choices.

It depends on someone’s emotional state or if they’re mentally illness there’s a whole other inner dialogue that’s playing out that doesn’t have to do with what’s going on in the present it could from experiences and trauma from the past. If the person is not aware that they’re caught up in transference or cognitive distortions or dysfunctions etc it’s going to go around in circles as you know now.

my ex never verbally, or physically abused my (our) children ... .I was the indirect collateral damage of her "acting out"... .ie' stepping out, to see other men ... .leaving us, abandoning us, me and the three children ... .she didn't mean any harm by it, she was just trying to escape her inner demons ... .unleashed on her by sexual abuse at the hands of her brother, and uncle, and a step dad, age 5-12 ... .she was severely damaged, but at eighteen, when I married her (she was barely seventeen), I was clueless

You could be 28, 38, 48 this is complicated stuff. That being said her actions not only affect her in this case it affects the whole family I think that it’s selfish. It’s something different if she decides that she can’t continue and wants to divorce and the marriage is winding down.

look back, how many times did I tell myself, "not again" ... .no more abuse, this has to stop, who is she, ... .why is she acting like this ... .-> fear of abandonment / engulfment <- ... .she was fighting for her emotional life I guess ... .the more I tried to pull her in, the more she fought me off ... .

Maybe you were outgrowing her it certainly sounds like you were tired of the conflict.

Yes, I am struggling with this right now ... .even after all of it ... .I still think I could (can) save her ... .

That’s fine a lot of us have had similar thoughts. You’re not alone.

The difference is ... .she is not helpless, she has the capacity to take care of herself ... .whereas my Son, he does not, he will always depend on me for his daily supportive care ... .and I think that she is in some way jealous of this (BPD) ... .he can in no way whatsoever take care of himself, he is a forever toddler, in a grown mans body.

He’s your kid she shouldn’t interfere with this r/s this is separate. She has a responsibility to take care of herself even if you have her all of the attention of the world unless she takes care of her demons by getting help for herself and being committed to doing that work whatever attention that you give to her it would never be enough until she gets better - she owns this.

[Red5]

Let’s say that you had the tools and more knowledge and awareness... .would you have still stayed in the r/s?... .Would you initially get involved at the onset of you knew what you knew now?

I certainly wouldn't have married her Mutt. We "dated" for almost four years... .which were also tumultuous... .I chalked all that up to "we've both been married before, and then single for years, we are both hardheaded, and fiercely independent"... .that is why we were also somewhat "toxic" during the dating phase... .we had some really great fights... ."don't call me anymore, I hate you" she used to say... .   

He’s your kid she shouldn’t interfere with this r/s this is separate. She has a responsibility to take care of herself even if you have her all of the attention of the world unless she takes care of her demons by getting help for herself and being committed to doing that work whatever attention that you give to her it would never be enough until she gets better - she owns this.

 We married in January 2011... .and promptly separated about five months later, due to never-ending, and escalating anger/fights... .we were separated for six months, and during this time we went to three MC sessions.

The main issue forefront was... .all my children were still at home, and I was not supporting her, "united front" she used to call it... .ALL our fights have been over MY children... .at that time, my two other ones, S21, and D19, along with Son(autistic)... .were all still living at home... .

She did not approve of my "parenting"... .id been a single dad since 2006... .it was just me and those kids, after their mom (ex) "took flight"... .

I remember the M/C telling us, "I too married into a blended family"... ."its very challenging", (she went on)... ."I don't try to mother, as they are / were at that time teenagers, which is very different than grade school or younger, .I (she) instead left the parenting to H, I (she) was more of another roommate to them, even a friend, as there was no taking mums place, and I (she) knew that"... ."you (Q), need to do the same".

Of course, uBPDw would have none of that... .nope!

To this day, she says, "yeah we went, but YOU didn't listen to what she said to do"... .yeah ; (

She moved back in, and went right back to her previous behaviors... .S21, and D19 moved out to be on their own over the next eighteen months... .and she then zeroed in on Son(autistic)... .

He’s your kid she shouldn’t interfere with this r/s this is separate.

... .rings true,

... .unless she takes care of her demons by getting help for herself and being committed to doing that work... .until she gets better - she owns this.

Thats about the "size" of it.

I have to say, I've noted a 'marked' decline in her cognitive state over the last year, leading up to that incident with my son, which was triggered by her dog dying... .that was a huge blow to her, .and she was unable to process it... .so resultant in her severe maladaptive behaviors/outburst the next day.

... .boom, deal breaker... .physical abuse, a hard nogo... .no hitting, she crossed a red line there, yeah, she owns that... .

She owns this, .it came outa nowhere... .I was making coffee that morning for goodness sake ; (

Thanks for your input here Mutt, I do appreciate it, thank you!

Red5