Should I involve her family (sister) ? Need some help

[suisse_chilipep]

I am brand-spanking new to this group, and need some guidance / constructive criticism regarding the benefits and potential risk factors involving her family. Her sister in particular.

Situation: my W has uBPD (high-functioning, most like the "petulant subtype," and situationally competent - behaviours displayed only at home, and occasionally splitting in front of her parents, her sister, and my brother-in-law. We have 2 young children (2.5 years and 7 months). I am American, she is Swiss. We recently moved to Switzerland, and for residency reasons, I'm going to have to stick it out for another 4 years, but I definitely want out! The physical abuse toward me "flared up" these last 6 months, but seems to have died down now that I understand better what's been going on. I found out about BPD just 2 weeks ago. But the emotional and verbal abuse can still flare up when she splits.

I am getting out of the FOG, reading a lot, I'm getting a personal therapist soon, and making sure our young children stay safe in the meantime. I am developing a thorough exit plan, and making sure I am documenting everything ... .I am unwilling to settle for anything less than 50/50 physical custody.

Here's my question: Do you see any benefit in letting her sister know what I know? Even if I'm able to get her sister into the psychiatrist's / therapist's office with me, show her evidence of the physical abuse (I have pictures and recordings), and have the psychiatrist "do the talking?" Here's the thing: her sister is a PhD psychologist herself, doing post-doc work on "emotions" at a nameless prestigious university over here in Europe. I am confident she would object to the abuse as a clinician in the field herself, and since we have children and she has a child of her own. But I don't know where it could go from there? Collaborating for an intervention? Or simply having the peace of mind she understands the gravity of our situation, and her sister's behaviours.

I feel compelled to tell someone in her family, but certainly not her parents as I am not on good terms with her parents right now, and I am very confident they wouldn't take me seriously, and are too fearful of "shame" associated with a mental health disorder in their family. I already showed them one of the scars on my left arm (this is when they came to visit us on New Year's Eve), and explained to them that their daughter is attacking me, and they brushed it off as no big deal, with essentially a nonverbal response of "she must have been justified, or you must have done something really stupid to piss her off like that." I was half-drunk, but still coherent enough to articulate the seriousness of my concerns, and then shocked and devastated they were not taking it seriously. I think the shame of it is too hard for them.

My uBPD W's mom has demonised me especially for being unemployed coming to Switzerland, when the reality is that we've had a surplus of savings to cover our resettlement costs, and I am actively looking and confident something will line up relatively soon in my field. I am treated, however, like trash from her mother.

There are obvious unhealthy relationship dynamics between her mom and her daughters. Her mom is very controlling, can be emotionally abusive at times, and can give people the silent treatment. I think there are major codependence issues of lack of boundaries between my mother-in-law and my wife. i I do not think she is full-blown BPD herself, but can have certain BPD traits in certain situations. I think her issues have more to do with depression, and having a hard life coming to Switzerland as war refugees.

But here's the thing with her sister: I once recently confided in her sister about the physical and emotional abuse (by email), and got no response. Crickets. Instead, she emailed her sister (my wife) and asked a general "what's going on? Is everything okay? I was drunk that night (and hurting); I have been so desperate for some sympathy and understanding of my situation (especially putting our family in physical danger in the car, and her intensifying erratic behaviours). I have had no one to understand me, or to confide in, with most of my friends and family all back in the States.

This happened all before knowing about BPD. So about her sister, I know I am not obligated to share this with her (that her sister has uBPD), but there's still something compelling me to consider sharing this with her, even though I don't even know exactly why, or what the clear objective would be in this? Just out of curtesy, and brainstorm together? Or in case things were to get crazy again (physically and verbally), and her sister could intervene (I could rely on her for support) and she could effectively shame my wife not to act this way ever again, especially in front of our children? I do not know for sure what good can come from it, and I am also aware of the potential dangers in telling her sister as well (even though she is a trained psychologist and probably deep-down already knows her sister has issues - at least certain problem behaviours). I know how deep shame can run in families, and loyalty to family, regardless of doing the right / ethical thing. But still, I am mulling over any potential benefits in telling her sister. My uBPD W is not terribly close to her sister, but close enough to skype once or twice a week, and go on family vacations together. She treats her sister in very "black and white" terms, the same as she does with most people.

The reality is that my uBPD W is HIGHLY UNLIKELY to get the help she needs, even if this is coming from her own family (her sister). She is so stubborn. In fact, I mentioned the other day that she most likely has BPD (when she split on me and was trying to make sense of her emotions), and it went right over her head. I was then accused of being the person with a mental health disorder (projection), and there's been no follow-up on the topic since then. In fact, because she was most liking dissociating at the time, she probably doesn't even remember I told her she maybe is a pwBPD.

Any thoughts / guidance on this with her sister? Especially since I'm gearing up for eventually leaving the relationship?

[Ozzie101]

Hi suisse!

You're in a tough spot, no doubt about it.  And I understand the urge to tell your sister-in-law. I would urge you to be very, very cautious about that, though.

For one thing, as you noted, family bonds are strong. Despite your SIL's education and history with your wife, her primary bond will be to her, not you. Throw in what sounds like a complicated and dysfunctional family dynamic and the results could be unpredictable, messy and ultimately unhelpful (even harmful) for you.

When you reached out before, she went straight to your wife instead of to you. That's likely to happen again.

Even if your SIL did support you and confront your W with you, pwBPD generally don't respond well to guilt or shaming. And, as you've discovered, they tend to not respond well to being told about BPD either. You could end up with an even worse situation than you have now.

It might be a better idea to have a more concrete plan in mind. WHY do you want to tell her? What do you really want to get out of it? Until you can answer those questions, I wouldn't share. Instead, I'd focus on getting your own therapist, ideally someone with some experience in this area, who can help you develop tools and skills to get your relationship on healthier ground.

And I hope you'll use this board as a support system and resource. Check out the Tools bar at the top of the page. Read and post in other members' threads. Ask lots of questions. The other members here are all in a similar boat and some have a lot of wisdom and experience. There's no cure for BPD, but there are tools you can use to make your life better -- or at least not make it worse.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey suisse, I can understand your urge to share what you know with your SIL, yet I doubt the information will be well received, coming from you.  In my view, it's better to leave that type of discussion to the professionals, who are not emotionally invested in the situation.  It might be a little different if your SIL initiated the discussion and asked your opinion, yet even in that situation I would tread very carefully.

LuckyJim

[Red5]

Hello suisse_chilipep,

For what its worth, .my undiagnosed (suspected) BPD wife (uBPDw) has two adult children, both of whom have been aware for years now, that "mom" is a pain in the @ss, to quote her son (S31), and her daughter has used the phrase, "welcome to my 'f'ing' childhood"... .several times.

That said, and a little background, uBPDw and I separated about two months ago, .about a week ago, uBPDw's daughter (D33) called me, and asked, ."Red5, what do you think it would take to get mom into therapy?"... .so I bounced this off my "T"... .and he said "best for her (D33) to just call me directly", .so relayed the message.

It will be interesting to see what happens, and or transpires.

As far as I have read... .the "non" should never tell, or else say to the person with BPD, ."you need therapy because x-y-z"... .but, .a "family intervention" might work... .ie' son(s), daughter(s), foo sister(s) or brother(s), all together... .not solo, .that's the only scenario, beside the "rock bottom" scenario, that I've read that would bring a person with "disorders" of any kind to self help/therapy... .

A long shot maybe... .of course uBPDw's D33, and S31 are very concerned about their mother, and both have even told me, ."Red5, you are a 'saint'   for putting up with her, and we are both very surprised that you've stuck in this relationship/marriage for the last elven years"... .yeah... .wow ; (

"T" says to think of this like a person who is substance addicted, they wont get help unless they want to be helped, no one else can lead them, make them, ."drink from the fountain"... .they got to want to themselves.

... .for what its worth,

Red5

[suisse_chilipep]

And, as you've discovered, they tend to not respond well to being told about BPD either. You could end up with an even worse situation than you have now.

Ozzie101,

Thanks. I need to hear this. It's as if I already know this deep in my gut, and logically, but hearing this from others familiar with intricate complications of BPD helps tremendously. I fundamentally know what I want for myself and my children long-term--this is never changing. There is little hope, unless there is a full-blown intervention, and even then this could go very badly. I know my best bet is to learn communication techniques to deescalate as much as possible these next several years, bite the bullet and get my ducks in a row.

[suisse_chilipep]

Hey suisse, I can understand your urge to share what you know with your SIL, yet I doubt the information will be well received, coming from you.  In my view, it's better to leave that type of discussion to the professionals, who are not emotionally invested in the situation.  It might be a little different if your SIL initiated the discussion and asked your opinion, yet even in that situation I would tread very carefully.

LuckyJim

Thanks! The "fixer" part of me wants to fix this, but I can't. It has to come from her, and it may never.

[suisse_chilipep]

 ... .that's the only scenario, beside the "rock bottom" scenario, that I've read that would bring a person with "disorders" of any kind to self help/therapy ... .

Thanks Red5. It sounds like your kids are smart, and largely unscathed from having an uBPDm. Not always the case. I've been reading "Understanding the Borderline Mother" and it's been very insightful, especially for understanding certain risk factors of perpetuating the BPD cycle from generation to generation. Good luck with your situation ahead.

And thanks, yes ... .I do think it would take "rock bottom," if there's any chance, and the odds of this are pretty slim right now, or in the near future. I think the smartest tack for me (what others have been saying) is to take care of my kids these coming years (develop a loving, trusting bond with them as much as possible), and get my ducks in a row. I already know what I want for myself long-term, which means ending the relationship at a later point. Thanks again!