My First Post: Silent Treatment - Protective or Passive Aggressive?

[Caticorn]

Hello! 

It's great to be here!  I have been married for almost 12 years to uBPDh.  Before that, we were in a relationship for about 6 years.  We have two children, 10 and 7.

I've gotten a lot better over the years with separating what are "my issues" and what are "his issues" and with not JADEing.  I'm generally better at keeping boundaries.  I've also closed off emotionally from him quite a bit, which serves to protect me pretty well but doesn't do much good for our relationship.  He does still hit my triggers, and I've been struggling not to strike back, particularly in the last few years.  Though I've closed off, I have so much repressed anger against him that I have trouble containing myself when he's lashing out at me.

In the past few months, H has decided that he's probably BPD and wants to get help.  He says it's not for me, because he considers me to be "a lost cause."  He says it's for our children, because he has issues with lashing out in anger against them.  Whatever the reason, I'm glad he's open to pursuing it.  He even contacted a Ph.D. who does personality testing and he picked up the preliminary paperwork from the office.  He planned to get tested, then get started in therapy for whatever the testing revealed.  Then... .we had a bit of a blow up, and now it appears to be on hold.

Currently, I'm in Day 13 of hostile silent treatment by H.  He leaves rooms when I walk in, and generally acts as if I'm not there.  He comes and goes as he pleases and I am taking care of the kids mostly on my own, except on days he normally picks them up from school.  When I did get out on my own to go to the store, I called him to ask what kind of granola bars my son wanted, and he hung up on me, then texted a picture of the box. 

Before this started, there was a build up of hostility for a few days, then a verbal fight in which he said "if it wasn't for the kids, I wouldn't be here."  (He says this quite frequently.)  I've been having some issues at work and I was not in a good place emotionally.  I told him (for the first time) that I wouldn't be here either if it weren't for the kids.  He said "What?  Say that again and see what happens."  I said it again, and that prompted him to say he wants a divorce, then that he wants to separate himself from me financially, that he's "done with" me. 

The next day, I felt I needed to apologize for my role, not because I wanted some result from him, but because I felt I was out of line and I wanted to take responsibility for my part.  I texted him that I was sorry for things I said that weren't true.  He wrote back: "I hate you."  We have barely spoken since then.  Yesterday I asked him if we could talk.  He said "what about?"  I said about "what we're doing here."  He said angrily that he doesn't want to talk.  I said "when might you want to talk?"  He said "I'll let you know."  That's when I should have backed off, but I didn't.  I said "Are you really going to want to talk at some point, or are you just putting me off right now?"  He said, "Actually, I never want to talk to you again."

We've gone through periods like this before, but something about this one feels different.  I don't think he really wants to get divorced, as he has consistently said that he will never get divorced because he blames his parents' divorce on everything that's gone wrong in his life.

I've read the posts about silent treatment, and I have the same question I have had for years - I don't ever know how to balance the concept that this is a disease and that they can't help their emotional reactions, and the idea that the behavior is abusive and seems aggressive.  Take the silent treatment, for example.  I think that some part of this is him trying to manage his anger against me by retreating until he's able to handle it better.  But at the same time, it feels very punitive, particularly when it's accompanied by passive aggressive behavior, like going out to expensive dinners by himself almost every night.  From past experience, he's stewing in everything he's ever perceived I've done wrong to him, and operating on all sorts of misconceptions and falsehoods (feelings create facts).  I witnessed him doing this same thing (silent treatment) to his mother when she lived with us, and he told me that he just hated her so much that he didn't want to be around her.  She eventually moved out because his behavior was so hurtful.  They're still not speaking, and that was about a year ago.
 
I'm trying to just give him space and do my own thing, but I'm not sure how to reconcile this in my mind in terms of whether it's deliberate cruelty or just self-protection.  Or maybe a little of both.  Thoughts?

Thanks.  I'm so glad to be here on this forum with you.

Caticorn

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[Ozzie101]

Welcome Caticorn! While I'm so sorry for the circumstances that bring you here, I'm very glad you found us!

This is a supportive community of people who can understand where you're coming from and can have lots of tips and advice to offer, no matter what course you decide you want your future to take.

It sounds like there's a lot of hostility and emotion flowing around right now. It's very difficult to be the vessel into which a loved one "pours" his anger, frustration and blame. Painful and unfair. I've been there (and am still there). It's so hard to know if it's on purpose or not. Sometimes with my uBPDh, it seems just like a symptom of the disease. At other times, it seems like a deliberately sharpened arrow aimed for maximum cruelty. I haven't been able to figure out which is which.

What I have come to a realization of is that I'm not sure it ultimately matters. The result is the same. It's still painful. It still leads to my walking on eggshells and doing things that are against my feelings and my basic nature.

Is there a particular part of your relationship or your current situation that really stands out to you as something you'd like some advice or help with? We're here for that. Or if you just want a willing ear and a supportive (virtual) shoulder, we're good at that, too.  

[Caticorn]

Thanks, Ozzie!  

I think I want it not to be deliberate and cruel, because I don't want to be any more angry or hateful than I already am.  I want to feel empathy for him, and it would be easier to do that if I knew that this is not something that he's doing intentionally to hurt me.   But I see your point about it not really mattering why.  Whatever the reason, it's still abusive and it still hurts.

I suppose I should continue to do my own thing and give him space to process this and calm down.  Agree?  

Also, I'm not sure how to address the issue of his spending since he's started the silent treatment.  Before we had our blowup, he wanted to go to the mountains to go skiing.  I manage the finances, and we're not doing so well this month, so I told him I didn't think we could do it.  While in this "funk," he laid out all of his ski clothes in the master bedroom and has now spent $140 at sporting goods stores, and I'm not sure he's done spending.  He's also been going out to nice dinners ($30-$50) by himself almost every night.  We just simply don't have the money to sustain this.  If he actually goes on vacation by himself, we won't be able to pay our bills.  I'm also concerned that he will try to take the kids with him.  (Before the argument that started this, he told my daughter that we were all going skiing and now she's really excited about it.)  Ideas on how to stop the spending or address the issue of the kids?

Thanks.

[Ozzie101]

I would think continuing to give him space is the best policy. It's usually better to let a pwBPD self-soothe in dysregulations, rather than trying to run in and fix things.

I wish I had a good idea regarding the money. A practical solution would be to cancel his cards  and cut off his access, but that's easier said than done and would probably lead to bigger, more severe problems. Perhaps someone else here has some good advice? I know overspending and financial problems are very common in pwBPD (though, thankfully, that's one my husband is missing).

[once removed]

what was the fight that led up to this about?

[Caticorn]

Ozzie, I'm worried about bigger problems if I were to cut him off.  Control is a trigger for him.  He normally is a very conservative spender, which makes me believe that this pattern of spending is passive aggressive and/or taking control over something that he normally feels powerless over.  One of his main issues is that he believes that he does not have enough control in our lives and that he doesn't get to have or do what he wants. 

Once removed, the fight was over several days, with several topics.  It started out with talking about our money situation.  My compensation structure is changing and I no longer have a set salary.  I am really worried about my ability to support the family.  I feel so much pressure about it that I'm crying almost every day.  I make a lot more than he does, so he already feels inadequate, I think.  He said that the only way he would know how to make a lot more money would be to open a restaurant.  (This has been something that has come up multiple times over the years.  He is a very good cook, so he thinks he could have a restaurant that would make it big.  In the past, I have tried to be supportive of him, and we even looked into a food truck option-less expensive, and frankly, less money to lose if it fails.  This fell by the wayside because generally speaking he has a pattern of really big ideas that he doesn't follow through on.)  The recent argument started when I was concerned about the cost to open a restaurant and the risk that we'd be taking at a time when I'm already really worried about our financial stability.  He said that he could walk into the bank right then and get a loan for $100K, and that's what he was planning to do, whether or not I agree.  I told him that I did not agree, and that I would not cosign on the loan.  (Without my income, there was no way he could qualify.)  Things escalated, and they were really rocky for a few days after that.  Then, the "final fight" happened over who was going to feed my son dinner.  I got home late from work, and H had picked up the kids from school.  I assumed the kids had eaten dinner.  Apparently they had, but my son wanted more to eat right before bedtime.  I guess he didn't like what H had fed him earlier and he didn't eat much of it.  I took the position with my son that he had his chance to eat dinner and he didn't eat it, and now it's bedtime.  I told him he could go downstairs and get a quick snack before bed if he wanted one.  My son went to H and told him that I would not feed him dinner.  H shouted loudly that I was "lazy" and I "don't even feed my kids" then stomped downstairs to make my son a second dinner.  I came down (I know, an example of what I shouldn't have done).  Now that I think back, I'm realizing I was JADEing.   My trigger is when he hints at or calls me a bad mom.  I explained why I was not feeding him and told him we should put on a united front.  He continued to berate me as a mom, and I got really triggered and told him that feeding them dinner once in awhile is ALL he does as a dad.  (This was one of the things I was apologizing for the next day.)  All of that led up to him saying that he would not be married to me if it wasn't for the kids.  (See my first post.)

[once removed]

Now that I think back, I'm realizing I was JADEing.   My trigger is when he hints at or calls me a bad mom.  I explained why I was not feeding him and told him we should put on a united front.

i think this was not the wrong move. dont JADE doesnt mean literally never explain yourself. it means dont over explain yourself or continually restate your point. suggesting a united front is modeling the kind of healthy relationship you want to have. he wasnt having it, you wont have a cooperative partner at all times.

He continued to berate me as a mom, and I got really triggered and told him that feeding them dinner once in awhile is ALL he does as a dad.

that probably cut. he said something that cut, so you said something that cut, so he said something that cut more. you apologized, and there isnt a lot of room to do more. there may be in the future.

it sounds like theres a whole lot going on in his life, and hes unhappy with it, and feels powerless against the circumstances. arguments about money are probably the number one conflict in households, and for a reason. it may be bigger than that, he may be wanting to stretch his wings. i dont say this to monday morning quarterback, rather, to give you a sense of where hes coming from: the suggestion that feeding dinner is all he does as a dad very likely fed into everything else hes feeling about himself.

so part of it may have to do with you, part of it may be general unhappiness, and this is his way of dealing with it.

in general, you do want to give him space, and live your life. dont go overboard or out of your way, but if the opportunity presents itself to say or do something loving, id do it; even if he reacts badly, it can thaw the ice. i would respect that space, but still be polite... .i wouldnt do something like speak as if hes not in the room, for example.

make sense?

[Ozzie101]

I second what once removed said. Good advice there.

Also, when it comes to the silent treatment, this article might be helpful:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=70004.0

[Tsultan]

Caticorn,  Welcome to the board! 

I am sorry you are experiencing the pain caused by the silent treatment. 

I don't have any advice to give you but I will share my experience with the silent treatment.

This was what most of my 24 year marriage was like.  He would withhold love and act very aloof towards me.  I tried everything I could do to cope with the pain but could not master how to not let his behavior roll off me like water on a duck's back.  In my case, I do believe it was passive aggressive behavior.  I just think he never learned the tools to discuss his needs or perhaps didn't even know what his needs were.  I am sure he didn't know what his needs were.  He was a very unhappy man and was unable to define what could make him happy.  He did not have a strong sense of self.  So, stuff came out all sorts of sideways for him. 

As was mentioned in other responses, it doesn't matter if it's intentional or not.  What matters is how it's making you feel. It's painful. I understand what you are saying is that if you knew that it isn't intentional that you could understand better and that would enable you to let go of your hurt. 

I didn't know that the silent treatment was a form of emotional abuse. I used to believe that abuse could only be called abuse if it was intentionally aimed at hurting another person.  From what I have learned, most abusers do not realize that they are acting in abusive ways.  Boy was that eye opener for me. 

I guess I do have one piece of advice for you.  Build up a support network for yourself.  Here is a great place to start.  If you can nurture a few good friendships so you are not so dependent on your H for companionship that will help you.  Maybe you already have some great friends?  I did not at the time we were married until the kids were grown.  I was too busy taking care of them and their needs and running a household.  I was also going to school because I was preparing to depend on supporting myself if I ever needed to.  I started to see the writing on the wall and wanted to be able to take care of myself.  Today I have a great support network.  Many good friends who support me that I can go have dinner or coffee with and we talk and laugh and are there for each other. 

Take care,
  Tsultan

[Caticorn]

Thank you, once removed, Ozzie and Tsultan for your insight and support! 

Once removed, your perspective on how my comments might have affected him is helpful.  I sometimes feel like I'm so angry at him and I've been burned by his emotions so many times that I don't pay attention (or sometimes even care) how what I say affects him.  That's the part I'm really trying to change.  It's just so hard not to be angry and detached given the consistent emotional abuse for years. 

As you have suggested, I've tried to be respectful to him since he's been in "silent mode."  On the nights when he doesn't go out for a nice dinner by himself, I offer to pick up dinner for him when I'm getting something for the kids.  (He doesn't take me up on it, or do the same for me, but I'm still doing it.)  I'm also thanking him when he tells me that he's leaving to go somewhere. (For awhile he wasn't even telling me, he'd just leave.  I asked him via text message to please tell me when he's leaving, and he didn't respond, but he's actually been doing it.) 

His emotions are still running really high tonight. (I think that's what feels different about this time - normally during "silent treatment" he seems to be more depressed than hateful.  The intensity of anger/hatred is different this time, and though the silent treatment isn't necessarily lasting longer than it has in the past, the hate is lasting longer.)  Tonight I went in the garage to get something for my car, and he came running down the stairs and met me at the door.  He stared at me with dagger eyes and asked with this awful voice, "What are you doing?"  I think he thought I was messing with his stuff in the garage?   Or maybe there's something in there he doesn't want me to see?  The level of disdain and sheer hatred was obvious in his eyes and his tone of voice.  It shook me to the core.  He can be really scary.  I don't think he would ever physically hurt me, but the way he looks at me sometimes gives me chills, and not in a good way.

Ozzie, thank you for linking that article.  I did read some posts and articles here on silent treatment, but I hadn't read that one.  It was helpful. 

Tsultan, that's so amazing that you focused on yourself, went to school and built a support system!  It is so easy to believe the awful things that are being said to you, and to be the victim of abuse and control, when you don't have your own successes to be proud of and others to go to who will make sure you understand how special you are. 

I really liked your comment on abusive behavior and how most abusers don't even know they're doing it.  That is true, and I never thought about it that way.  My H and I have discussed many times that he comes across a certain way when he communicates that appears to be confrontational and mean, even though he's not intending to do that.  He is at least open some of the time to working on that.  But he also acknowledges that he has a problem with needing revenge when he feels that someone has hurt him.  He needs to hurt them back three times worse than they hurt him. This happens whether they intended to hurt him or not.  My silent treatment and the excessive spending is probably linked to that.  I am being punished.  I am wondering if there is an element of antisocial personality disorder? 

Thanks again everyone for your help and your warm welcomes!

Caticorn