Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 29, 2024, 01:14:37 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Books members most read
105
The High
Conflict Couple
Loving Someone with
Borderline Personality Disorder
Loving the
Self-Absorbed
Borderline Personality
Disorder Demystified

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Thinking of reaching out  (Read 1087 times)
steelwork
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1259


« on: February 23, 2019, 01:11:48 PM »

My ex and I both had a lot of childhood trauma. It was one of the things that bonded us so intensely, and ultimately, it pulled us apart.

I read about childhood trauma, and how pernicious and persistent it is, and I wonder if I will ever be okay. I bet he feels the same. I think most people with our background do.

All these years that we've been out of contact, I've been waiting for some kind of healing to happen. It's not happening. Staying away from him has gone from being difficult--a matter of will power--to something more like phobia. Longing for him transformed over time into terror at the thought of seeing him. Probably this is what he felt about me during those last few months of semi-contact, when he kept promising meetings and then renegging.

It's been four years. I need to conquer this. I am again thinking of reaching out. This is what I wrote just now, just to see how it felt to write it:

"Do you think it would be possible now for us to talk? The last time we were in touch was almost four years ago. We were going to meet and talk, but you said you were waiting for things to settle down. Then you became angry, and disappeared, and that's where it got left. It's been such a long time, and I'm hoping you aren't still angry.

This is not an attempt to restart things. I understand that you are likely settled in a new life, and you deserve that. But I am haunted by what happened, and it has occurred to me that maybe you are, too--and maybe we could help each other understand and heal. We went through this thing together, after all."
Logged
Insom
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 680



« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2019, 07:33:58 PM »

Hi, steelwork.  I can relate with wanting to reach out!  I found this site a couple of years ago after feeling plagued by a spate of intense dreams about my ex that left me craving contact.  But because the relationship was an abusive one, reaching out didn't feel safe, so I paused and reached out here instead.

How did it feel to write what you wrote?




Logged

steelwork
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1259


« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2019, 08:27:56 AM »

Thanks for responding, Insom. You are a reliable responder, and I appreciate that!

I guess he was abusive at the end. While it was happening, maybe more like just manipulative and shaming--sometimes.

How it felt to write that: clarifying. The noise stripped away. But I'm wondering if, finally, I should just send it. I have a conversation scheduled with my therapist for tomorrow. (I'm out of town and haven't seen her for over a month.)

Not sure what I'm asking for here. Maybe I'm just waiting for someone to tell me it might not be the worst idea in the world.
Logged
Insom
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 680



« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2019, 10:00:31 AM »

You're welcome.  I relate a lot with what you're saying so it feels helpful to me to respond.  In addition, it's a pleasure to connect with you.

Do you understand what you're craving from him other than relief from the urge to reach out?

Excerpt
Not sure what I'm asking for here. Maybe I'm just waiting for someone to tell me it might not be the worst idea in the world.

What do you think?  If not the worst idea, what if it's just unsatisfying?  Have you thought about the different scenarios that could play out?  What if he ignores you?  What does that do to the urge?  Resolve or intensify?  How about if he does respond, but things devolve into manipulation and shame?  What happens then?  Resolve or intensify?


FWIW, a bit more about me.  I have been in therapy for almost a year, have not reached out, and those feeling are resolving (have resolved?  It is a process) on their own.  The key for me, I think, has been turning my focus inward, understanding what I need emotionally, where my needs have been met and where they haven't, learning to identify what I want, and taking positive steps in that direction.  While my ex still interests me I don't crave reaching out anymore.  I no longer believe he holds the key to something I want.  My answers are in me.
Logged

steelwork
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1259


« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2019, 10:21:15 AM »

I would not call it an urge or a craving so much. It was that for a long time. Now it's something more like a need to confront my fear.

I too have been in therapy--in my case, on and off for about 25 years. And in the four years since this all came to a head I've been going 2-3 times a week, out-of-town trips notwithstanding. So there has been a lot of inward focusing. For all the years of therapy, I didn't really get how scarred I was by my childhood until this happened. (A few other things happened at the same time--in fact, there was a lot going on in my life that caused me to pull away from him while we were together, with disastrous results, since he had "abandonment issues.")

As for time passing and solving this, it's been four years. I don't know. That seems like a long time. We have unfinished business.
Logged
steelwork
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1259


« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2019, 10:38:57 AM »

Have you thought about the different scenarios that could play out?  What if he ignores you? 

Oh yeah, I've definitely played out all the scenarios ad nauseam!
Logged
Nuitari
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 240


« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2019, 11:02:03 AM »

Hi Steelwork,

Just make sure you're 100% on board with it before doing it.  

I can relate in a big way because I've also spent the past four years going through something similiar.  I can especially identify with this... .

Excerpt
Staying away from him has gone from being difficult--a matter of will power--to something more like phobia. Longing for him transformed over time into terror at the thought of seeing him.

I went through a period of wanting to reconnect with her in some way, only to go to the other extreme.  Now, I can't bear the thought of seeing her or talking with her.  I've ignored her attempts to reach out.  Haven't heard from her now in three years, so I guess she's finally given up.  It really is like a phobia.  I'll go far out of my way to avoid places where I think I might run into her.  That being said, I do still struggle with reaching out sometimes.  Sometimes its just for the purpose of ending things the right way.  I reached a breaking point and hung up on her, and that was it.  I haven't been able to talk to her sense.  But that last conversation will always haunt me.  Most of the time, though, I just want to unload all of the hatefull and angry things that's left inside me that I never got to say.  So I'm left wanting two contradictory things.  I've written a lot of things, but have never sent them because I know I'll immediately regret it and I'll be in a much worse place than I am now.  And yet, I can't imagine not following up with her on what happened.  So I wait and tell myself someday, if and when I get my head straight and know exactly what I want to say and can accept the consequences, then I'll do it.  Until then I wait, and for now anyway, that's enough for me.  


So I guess my advice is to keep in mind that there is no deadline for reaching out to him.  Even if you decide to do it, it doesn't mean you have to do it today or tomorrow.  It's ok to wait until you're comfortable with it.  Personally, I don't know if I'll ever get there.  But maybe you're already there.  I guess only you can know that.  
Logged
steelwork
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1259


« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2019, 01:17:41 PM »

Thanks, Nuitari. No deadline. That's right. That's why it's been four years and I still haven't acted. I think what it is is that I've tried so hard to feel better, to process things, to get through all my feelings, and instead they just seem to be getting scarier.

So, you understand the phobia. If you don't mind saying, what would be your reaction if you got a message like the one I quoted in the OP?
Logged
Nuitari
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 240


« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2019, 01:58:18 PM »

That's a really tough question.  In one way, it would be so nice to get a message like that from my ex, just to know that she's sorry and that she's hung up on the past too.  I wouldn't feel so alone, and it would make me feel more comfortable contacting her if and when the time comes where I am ready to do that.  But in another way, it would be kind of scary because it would stir up so many conflicting things inside me and I don't want to be back on that roller-coaster.  I've been avoiding my ex like the plague these past four years for that reason.  I do know that I wouldn't be able to reply, even though on some level I might appreciate the message.  I'm no longer in a place where I can interact with her in any way, shape, or form, and to reply would feel like a step backward for me.  So I guess the short answer is that it would feel good and bad at the same time.  I still feel so many contradictory things when it comes to my ex, and this is one of them.  I don't know if any of this was helpful, and I wish I had a more concrete answer to your question (its actually something I've been wondering myself for a long time), but this is the best I can do. 
Logged
steelwork
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1259


« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2019, 02:08:14 PM »

That's very helpful. Thank you.
Logged
JNChell
a.k.a. "WTL"
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Dissolved
Posts: 3520



« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2019, 01:56:40 AM »

Hey there, steelwork. Welcome new member (click to insert in post) Your opening statement really stands out to me.

My ex and I both had a lot of childhood trauma. It was one of the things that bonded us so intensely, and ultimately, it pulled us apart.

Trauma bonds can create some very intense feelings and situations. The initial passion is almost indescribable. It’s easy to get wrapped up in it and, for me personally, lost in it in a way. I’m happy to read that you’re in therapy. How’s that going for you? Is your therapist a childhood trauma specialist?

I relate to wanting to reach out. In fact I have before. I share a young son with my ex, so some contact is necessary. When I have reached out for closure it’s been met with either silence or hostility and gaslighting/blame shifting. Basically, it’s caused me more anguish. You know your ex the best. How do you think an interaction like that would play out for you?

Excerpt
I read about childhood trauma, and how pernicious and persistent it is, and I wonder if I will ever be okay. I bet he feels the same. I think most people with our background do.

I read about childhood trauma a lot as well. My research started out with obsessive reading about personality disorders and abusive/manipulative people, and is transitioning into more of a looking inward approach which has me looking face to face with my childhood, and other, traumas. Tough stuff, isn’t it?

You and your ex share this commonality, unfortunately. I’m sorry for that. I understand. To your knowledge, has your ex ever attempted therapy? If so, did you see your ex benefitting from it?

Excerpt
All these years that we've been out of contact, I've been waiting for some kind of healing to happen. It's not happening.

It will happen. Stay with it. Do you feel like you need closure for your healing to move forward? If so, do you think your ex is capable of sincerely providing that for you?

In my own situation, I’m realizing that my desire for closure from S4’s mom is really seeded deeper. I never got closure from my parents on what they did to me. I even confronted them about it when I was in my early 20’s. I was gaslighted and left the exchange feeling quite unsure about my reality. I think, perhaps, I may have gotten stuck in that moment in a sense. Unfinished business. Don’t get me wrong, my ex and I had real problems. It was toxic, but I can’t ignore the fact that my childhood was present in our relationship. My wounded inner child was doing a lot of the reacting instead of the present day JNChell.

Excerpt
when he kept promising meetings and then renegging.

Keep this in mind while contemplating whether or not you really want to reach out to your ex. Also, the part of your letter that states that your ex is likely settled into a new life is something to take into consideration.

Kudos for bringing your thoughts and feelings here to the board. Sit with your thoughts for a while before making a decision. Do you have a trusted friend or family member that you can talk about this with as well?

I understand your feelings, steelwork.  Nice to chat with you.
Logged

“Adversity can destroy you, or become your best seller.”
-a new friend
once removed
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 12608



« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2019, 08:59:17 AM »

a light touch will usually yield the greatest likelihood of success.

regarding the message youve composed specifically, read it through his eyes. its going to sound a lot like "are you done being angry yet? can you respond to me now?"

it also signals a heavy conversation to follow if he does.

if youre wanting to get it over with and out there, i dont think the specifics matter much. if you want a greater likelihood that he will respond, i would use a different approach.
Logged

     and I think it's gonna be all right; yeah; the worst is over now; the mornin' sun is shinin' like a red rubber ball…
steelwork
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1259


« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2019, 09:33:38 AM »

Wow, this discussion has been super helpful in so many ways. I'm really glad I came here with it.

My thinking was: my ex and I had this exciting and deeply affecting but also very painful experience with each other, and it reactivated a lot of childhood trauma for each of us. This is something he was more aware of at the time; I remember him saying to me once that being in love with me had returned him to his childhood, the trauma and dissociation, and that he was glad for that. That sounds weird, but I think he meant that he'd been plastering over it for a very long time before we met. He was good at bonhomie, superficial charm, being a fun guy. For me the awakening came more fully after the relationship ended.

(JNChell: to answer your questions: My current therapist is not a childhood trauma specialist. I'm beginning to feel this might be why I'm stuck in place. But it's so hard to tell, since this work can take an awfully long time in the best circumstances. But as I said... .25 years of therapy, sometimes as many as three times a week. As for my ex: he too was in therapy when we were last in touch, and he was also doing some sort of online CBT. He was diagnosed with ADHD, and I'm thinking that since then a PTSD diagnosis may have come up. A few years after we parted ways, he wrote and published a story based quite obviously on what happened between us, and the protagonist was a war veteran with PTSD. )

Anyhow, I know (and he knew better) that we brought past traumas into the relationship. Circumstances were such that I could not give him what he needed from the relationship, and he did what he had to do. There was collateral damage. I'm pretty sure he was feeling some shame about that, or he would not have acted the way he did. Maybe he still his. You don't just ghost someone you had that experience with, in the angry and contemptuous way he did, and move on.

My trauma symptoms have not improved. Maybe he's struggling, too. Trauma work involves re-exposure. So you see where I was going with that.

So that's where my thoughts were going.

Nuitari, your response was a wake-up call. It reminded me that he might not be emotionally ready--might not ever be ready--to hear from me. But of course this is not all about him. It's about me, too.

Once Removed, your response was just good old fashioned common sense.

I'm going to speak with my therapist about this later today. I'll report back, in case anyone's following along.
Logged
JNChell
a.k.a. "WTL"
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Dissolved
Posts: 3520



« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2019, 09:38:57 AM »

How do you feel about seeking out a childhood trauma specialist?

Logged

“Adversity can destroy you, or become your best seller.”
-a new friend
steelwork
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1259


« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2019, 09:47:55 AM »

I feel... .like I can't afford it, mainly. The therapist I have now is covered by my insurance, which is a medicaid program.

Also, I feel like it's a monumental task to find any medical provider. A dentist, even. For me it is. So I put it off and put it off.

There are two areas I have been exploring, in terms of finding a specialist. One is emdr treatment, and the other is complicated grief. I believe I have an ongoing issue with complicated grief, which is a qualitatively different mode of grieving. There have been studies showing that, for certain people, grief activates the reward center of their brains, believe it or not. It's like a chemical addiction, and it doesn't respond to the usual therapies.
Logged
JNChell
a.k.a. "WTL"
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Dissolved
Posts: 3520



« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2019, 09:59:43 AM »

Most therapists, at least in my area, accept Medicaid. I wasn’t trying to paint the idea of trauma therapy into a corner. I apologize if I did. Most therapists are knowledgeable in several areas of psychology. From what I’ve been reading for a while, the biggest reason for seeking out therapy usually takes us back to childhood. Hence the saying by The Board Parrot, ”All boards lead to PSI”. (parent, sibling, inlaw). Do you feel like your current therapist is meeting the needs that you need met?
Logged

“Adversity can destroy you, or become your best seller.”
-a new friend
Insom
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 680



« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2019, 11:39:23 AM »

Excerpt
As for time passing and solving this, it's been four years. I don't know. That seems like a long time.

Hang in there, steelwork.  These things can take time.  You're asking great questions.

Excerpt
I'm going to speak with my therapist about this later today. I'll report back, in case anyone's following along.

Yes, please do check in.  I'd love to hear how that goes.

Logged

steelwork
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1259


« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2019, 01:36:11 PM »

Most therapists, at least in my area, accept Medicaid.

Definitely not the case in my area. Not to bore you with details, but we are required to get on an HMO-type plan, and it's really hard to find providers that take it.

Excerpt
I wasn’t trying to paint the idea of trauma therapy into a corner. I apologize if I did. Most therapists are knowledgeable in several areas of psychology.

Then I guess I didn't understand your question. Let's just say that my therapist came highly recommended through a prestigious training institute in a large city.

Excerpt
From what I’ve been reading for a while, the biggest reason for seeking out therapy usually takes us back to childhood. Hence the saying by The Board Parrot, ”All boards lead to PSI”. (parent, sibling, inlaw). Do you feel like your current therapist is meeting the needs that you need met?

I guess I can only repeat what I said before: I am feeling stuck, and exploring options of more targeted treatment such as emdr and complex grief disorder treatment.
Logged
JNChell
a.k.a. "WTL"
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Dissolved
Posts: 3520



« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2019, 01:42:04 PM »

Visit the PSI board. When you’re on the board page, second from the top. This is where child abuse and struggling with parents is at.
Logged

“Adversity can destroy you, or become your best seller.”
-a new friend
steelwork
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1259


« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2019, 01:46:17 PM »

I've been on that board in the past, prob. will be again.

Are you suggesting I'm on the wrong board now?

To be clear: My therapist, and previous therapists, have explored with me every nook and cranny of my FOO experience.

What I was asking was: can you clarify your line of questioning?
Logged
JNChell
a.k.a. "WTL"
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Dissolved
Posts: 3520



« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2019, 01:51:18 PM »

I’m sorry. I should’ve given you a link to the reading. You’re not on the wrong board. Lord, I guess that I need to collect myself. I’m sorry. You are perfectly fine. I’m sorry for getting away from that.
Logged

“Adversity can destroy you, or become your best seller.”
-a new friend
JNChell
a.k.a. "WTL"
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Dissolved
Posts: 3520



« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2019, 02:01:43 PM »

Do you still feel like taking?
Logged

“Adversity can destroy you, or become your best seller.”
-a new friend
steelwork
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1259


« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2019, 02:09:38 PM »

JNChell—sorry—I’m in the middle of something now but will return to this. What would you like to talk about?
Logged
JNChell
a.k.a. "WTL"
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Dissolved
Posts: 3520



« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2019, 02:14:29 PM »

You.

I’m sorry. I sent you a bunch of messages. Anyway, when you have time, let’s talk about you.
Logged

“Adversity can destroy you, or become your best seller.”
-a new friend
steelwork
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1259


« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2019, 04:00:07 PM »

A quick update.

I talked to my T about this. We've talked about it before, but this time it was a more serious conversation.

We talked about possible outcomes, and in a nutshell: there are serious risks, which might be mitigated by my going into it as prepared as possible, but they are not pointless risks. There's the potential for real therapeutic benefit. So I want to work toward the possibility of writing to him, with her guidance.

We also talked again about emdr. She has discussed it with a few people, and her worry is about emotional flooding. That's something else we're going to keep talking about, and maybe I will have some preliminary sessions with a practitioner.

I also need to get settled with a better psychiatrist, because medication has been an issue. The idea would be to get me on more solid ground before moving forward.



Logged
JNChell
a.k.a. "WTL"
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Dissolved
Posts: 3520



« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2019, 04:11:13 PM »

Does moving forward include sending that letter?
Logged

“Adversity can destroy you, or become your best seller.”
-a new friend
steelwork
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1259


« Reply #26 on: February 25, 2019, 04:11:56 PM »

A letter.
Logged
JNChell
a.k.a. "WTL"
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Dissolved
Posts: 3520



« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2019, 04:13:57 PM »

A letter. What does that letter say?
Logged

“Adversity can destroy you, or become your best seller.”
-a new friend
steelwork
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 1259


« Reply #28 on: February 25, 2019, 04:17:00 PM »

JNChell, there is no letter yet and may never be. Any letter I sent would be come about as a result of a process that I sort of described above.
Logged
Insom
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 680



« Reply #29 on: February 25, 2019, 04:20:15 PM »

Thanks for the update, steelwork.  Getting yourself grounded before moving forward sounds like a solid plan.  I also like what Nuitari said about the fact that there's no deadline on this.

I chose my therapist because trauma is one of her specialities.  While she performs EMDR, she hasn't yet with me because I'm finding success with another modality (which is a specific type of yoga practice that I won't go into here).  Point being, it sounds like a trauma specialist can help and there are multiple paths.  The goal is to feel/unlock frozen emotional responses connected with the trauma and move on.
Logged

Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!