Part 3: Recently broke up from my BPD and a bit vulnerable

[Supertrouper]

MOD NOTE  Part 2 of this thread is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=334532.0

While i was writing i got a text from him:

‘Sorry i didnt reply earlier, was a bit busy. Im stuck for words. Give it a couple of days and we’ll talk, if you’d like’

Response is good. At least he is willing to talk.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

"id like that"

[Supertrouper]

Sent it.

How do i approach the chat?

[Supertrouper]

Ok, so we will talk in a couple of days, hes just texted.

[once removed]

approach it/speak authentically.

do a lot of listening. use the tools here.

[Supertrouper]

I sm reading through the tools and trying empathic listening.

Any ideas on how the chat should start. What to avoid. Obviously im sorry that ive hurt his feelings and that will be a main topic but should i mention why i felt i had to do what i did.

[once removed]

should i mention why i felt i had to do what i did.

i think that that would fall into the category of JADEing, and not listening.

if you want to build trust, i would actively listen. i would summarize what he is saying (repeat it back). i would then take some time to just reflect on it. once i had done that, i might revisit it, share my perspective.

certainly if he asks for your perspective, give it...dont insist on it, just share. the most important thing is that this conversation is not just another argument and extension of the old relationship issues. it will end badly.

[Supertrouper]

Thanks. Im just concerned that as he is ‘stuck for words’. Well hes just called and no he wasnt stuck for words.

He called early, should have been tomorrow but at least i was just in. Anyway, he called, he was drunk. He said he needed to talk to a friend and knew that i would talk to him.

I listened, said ok, um, the usual agreeing sounds, validated some points, tried SET, not sure i got it right, he never answered when i said anything. Gave my perspective when asked or prompted. All in all a good conversation.

The gist of it:
1/ He has not passed his medical for work. Maybe this was the trigger? He did not let me know.

2/ I dont compromise or give 50%. He had one or two points, i could agree on but he gives way less compromise and effort, he just thinks he gives it.

3/ He hates the friends who i went out with on sat, remember they were his previous friends. That may need to be addressed as they are also my friends, i think he is trying to stop me seeing them.

4/ He felt ignored when he used to say something about me, to me, and i never said anything. When i said that was usually because i didnt agree with what he was saying. Well he just said ‘well just say that then’.

5/ He wants me to take a bit more charge of the relationship.

6/ He says we all need rules to live by and a talking to when our behaviours are not good. He mentioned that i said he cycles, not a mention that i called him borderline,  but he said that i did to. I did ask him to explain but he couldn’t. I will ask him another time.

That was the main points. He is coming round tomorrow evening, alcohol free, as he knows this is an issue, and we can chat some more.

Behaviour guidelines for both of us could be a good thing.

[Supertrouper]

Thrre was obviously a lot more he said, but the main part i got from all of it, was that he felt ignored. He wasnt ignored, he just felt that.

Now, i am seeing one of the friends again on sat, to discuss a girlie weekend away. BPDbf was supposed to be away to work remember, but he is obviously at home. I have a feeling he will not be happy about this but i will have to mention it as he will at some point find out. How do I approach the your not gonna stop me seeing my friends talk. Which communication tool do i use for that.

[once removed]

How do I approach the your not gonna stop me seeing my friends talk. Which communication tool do i use for that.

i think approaching this as a "youre not gonna stop me" is a tool you would use if you want your relationship to break down, Supertrouper.

rehabilitative approaches are solutions oriented.

He wasnt ignored, he just felt that.

essentially then, he is saying he doesnt feel like he/the relationship are a priority to you. i think "youre not gonna stop me from seeing my friends" is a great way to confirm that. 

i would recommend that you not be so quick to dismiss his concerns and feelings about the relationship. theyre very real to him, and a big piece of why your relationship has gotten to this point.

a Reversing a Breakup situation is a delicate one. if we dont go into it with a radically different plan, its likely to fall apart quickly.

there are a host of ways to approach this. i would start though, by putting yourself in his shoes. if suddenly, your friends were against you, and now his friends, how would you feel? how would you want him to approach it?

[Supertrouper]

I get it and i can understand how he feels. I wont go in saying anything like that really. However, i dont want to lie about it either. I will only be going to discuss the girlie weekend anyway and then i will leave and we can do something as well.

He has just asked if i would like to go out rather than him drive over, which means he has drunk too much.

We have a lot to sort out.

[once removed]

dont try to solve everything in one, two, or even three sessions. play the longer game.

you need ground rules you can both agree to, keep to, and keep each other accountable toward, sure. its also good though, in a Reversing a Breakup situation, to keep things upbeat and positive. to have fun.

its also easier to get on the same page about where the relationship is, and where its going, in times of calm.

[Supertrouper]

That is the point of our meeting tonight, to set ground rules for both of us.

I will only discuss things while calm, there is no discussion otherwise.

I am apprehensive of his mood, i cant lie.  Just called him to see where we are meeting and he was snipy again, i just said ok.

[Supertrouper]

He has a lot of hate for my friends, which is a shame, becsuse they are his friends too. So i will just have to keep them separate. He says i prioritise my friends above him, ok i can see where he is coming from, its not true, when he is home i prioritise my time with him, and when he is away, thats when i usually catch up with friends.

He has accepted that seeing a relationship counsellor could be a good idea. However, I accepted that it may be unsalvageable as I (me) would need to be the one that changed and he cant see me doing it. I said i would be willing if he was. He doesn’t think he needs to.

We are meeeting again this evening and we will take it ffom there.

[Supertrouper]

I accepted his feelings that it may be unsalvagesble, that was meant to say.

[Supertrouper]

Hi, just writing some more things down.

He is stressed understandably about his medical at work. Seems like his heart rate is too high and in his line of work, he needs to be above a certain heslth standard. With his unhealthy diet, drinking habit and anxiety, im not surprised his heart rate is high,  but yes a worrying time for him. Im assuming he will have to take something for it. However, his anxiety has already pushed him to thinking he could be a goner anyday. Im hoping his medical on monday will be better, as he is thinking the worst, as we all would, but hopefully they will come up with a solution.

To rriterate, it was himself who mentioned the counsellor. However, from his words, i think he thinks its me who needs it as i am the issue, and i wont change my behaviour, in his mind. He didnt mention he might have to change as well but  he does admit its difficult to change.

Im glad he suggested the counsellor and i hope he goes through with it. I will keep trying yo bring it up at some point but i think for now, he needs a bit of support with his work, however that turns out.

So for now, we will keep it light. It will slso give me time to keep practising the communication tools.

[Supertrouper]

The evening went ok. We met up at the pub and there were some people that we knew in there, so we chatted with them. We were chatting all together and he took a couple of chances to put me down, by saying id done certain things and how id behaved towards him and other people. It wasnt really the time to say anything to him because we were in a conversation with others, so i said nothing. However, i could tell that who we were talking too felt uncomfortable about how he was speaking to me. It wasnt abusive but it was snipy. Does anyone have any suggestions in these circumstances when he is being snipy in front of others, because i have to try so hard not to say anything back that would start an argument or put him in a mood, so i say nothing at all, but i want to, so that he stops being like that in company.

What was nice was that one of the people who we were talking to said to me her deceased husband was lovely but he had a little child in him, and then her eyes moved to my BPDbf which indicated to me she knew what he is like and what i have to deal with. I think most of the people we know, knows he is difficult and cannot understand the relationship we have, but this lady knew.

Anyway, we went for a meal which wasnt great to be honest, food and service wise. So we went back to the pub for some more chat which was good. We stayed together for the evening and hed booked a hotel for the night. I asked him are we not going to his which is not far away, then i realised it must be messy, so i asked him that and he said yes, very messy. So he didnt want me to see it, so it must be really bad. I just asked if he wanted help to tidy it, which he accepted. Not sure he will let me though as he seems a bit ashamed its untidy.

Anyway, we had a nice evening, he was relaxed. This morning, he was quiet. I didn’t push anything, just let him relax as he seemed peaceful and not talkative. I drove him home and he asked what i was doing today. Now i have actually learnt that that means, i need you to spend some time with me. So i will meet him later. I will have to try and think of other activities to do together, because he just goes to his default position of the pub.

[Supertrouper]

Had a quiet meet up this afternoon, he is very stressed about his medical tomorrow, but i was understanding and just asked questions about it.

We just had a chat also on the phone and he is still a bit stressed. Said that whatever happens tomorrow, we should be doing it together, not him on his own.  He became a bit judgemental of me then, i didnt jade, although i so wanted to. He even said that i made him feel unintelligent, i think this is more likely projection. I just said, i didnt know that i was doing that. Im not sure i really was because he isnt unintelligent and i never judge anyone on their intelligence, that i am aware of. So thats why i think it is projection.

Anyway, he said we need to get the basis right, compromise and then we can go forward. He said it felt to him like i didnt have two feet in. That is true, i didnt, i wanted to, but i always felt like he would leave at any moment, so i was protecting myself. I am aware of that. I never said anything today but that does need to be addressed. I am hoping that my reading of dbt and radical acceptance will help me.

He ended the conversation by saying that he is fond of me, at the moment. I asked him to text me about what happens tomorrow and we can chat about it.

[SunandMoon]

It sounds like a lot of tip-toeing on eggshells, Supertrouper.

We were chatting all together and he took a couple of chances to put me down, by saying id done certain things and how id behaved towards him and other people. It wasnt really the time to say anything to him because we were in a conversation with others, so i said nothing. However, i could tell that who we were talking too felt uncomfortable about how he was speaking to me. 

Can you give us a couple of examples of what exactly he said? Perhaps there's a way to address this...

He has a lot of hate for my friends, which is a shame, becsuse they are his friends too 

Is this the group of his friends that went off him after he verbally abused you and called you a c%#t at the pub?

As once removed said, I wouldn't approach going for the girly weekend with these friends yet. It's a tricky situation and I'd be getting the relationship on a better footing before bringing it up.

[Supertrouper]

Hi, yes i feel like i am walking on eggshells.

Some of the things he said. Apparently he had to apoligise on my behalf to one of his friends because if a conversation we had had in the past. She was stood with us on sat and she is very pleasant and we actually get on. It wasnt anything bad, i was just she had said she was a very bright girl, good qualifications and i was just surprised she hadnt done much with them. It was an opinion and when she explained why she had a good opinion. Apparently he took it that i was being rude but i wasnt.

Other bits about how rude i had been to him snd how unkind i had been to him. I cant remember the exact words but when he is saying it in front of others, its difgicult to know what to say.

Yes that was thise friends. I havent mentioned the girlie weekend to him.

[Supertrouper]

Also I remember one point, myself, that other lady and another one, who are not my friends, they are his, we were just talking because we just get on. I remember the another lady said something and to be fair, it didnt really make sense, but it did to her, but he just jumped on it. He said, why do i have these three women in my life who are crazy, shot to pieces. Nobody knew then what to say, they all just laughed.

[Supertrouper]

Also, sorry keep remembering things. When we were tslking about where we were going to dinner with the people in the bar, he said he hadnt been there before. We have, a long time ago, when we were first together. When i told him that, he never said i cant remember that, he just said hed never been in there and that i must have been in with someone else. I know it was him, ive been in three times, one with my friend years ago, one time with my exh and sisters and partners years ago and one time eith my BPD. I remember. I know they cant always remember but there was no recognition he may not have remembered, just a complete no he hadnt been in there. Of course then im then doubting my own memory, but then i know that we had been. So i just left that discussion as well.

[Supertrouper]

Well he passed his medical, only just though. So hes just got to hear about work now. He has quite high blood pressure for his age, but im not surprised. So he is going to make an appointment with the doctor, so he will probably get bp tablets and cholesterol lowering tablets. Not sure with his super anxiety whether they will make a great difference, so hopefully the doctor may give him antidepressants as well. If he gets that lot, he will more anxious, he hates taking medication.

Anyway, we had a chat. He mentioned sarcastically that i hadnt given him support this morning. To be fair, it was a difficult one to call, which i did tell him. Either i called him and made him more anxious reminding him of it, or call him later and find out what happened and let him deal with the anxiety. I think i would have been put in a no-win situation here, so i had to make a decision and then tell him why i had made it.

He will have to make some lifestyle changes now anyway, because these medicals are yearly, so he will have the same problems next year, if he doesnt. I will support him in that but he does have to do it himself. Ive told him i can help with anxiety relief with breathing and exercises, do some other form of activity, other than drinking, i suggested yoga, but he has to stop drinking so much and help himself, i can only support what he does.

[Supertrouper]

Well hes back to work on weds. Hes coming round tomorrow to talk about what HE has decided about our relationship, nothing negative. Do i get a say, we will see. He does realise he does need to change his lifestyle.

Anyway, hes been talking relationships with his two friends tonight as one has just broken up with her boyfriend and one has a s!£&&y one with his fiancee (the friends words). So im sure i was part of they conversation. I wont take it personally. Ive also been asked to text him goodnight like i used to, as he liked it. I will need to see how much contact he wants when he goes away as I remember him saying once a week, is not enough for him. He does change his mind though.

[Supertrouper]

Well hes not coming round. Yesterday I said i would text him when i was leaving work, so he has had all day to tell me. I texted him when i had left work to say i was on my way home. He rang and said he wasnt coming because he had had an upset stomach all day, and that he just wanted to go home yo bed and that if he came round to mine, that he would keep me awake all night. He said he was sorry. He would be home in six days and i should book somewhere to stay the weekend he came back, so we could then have a chat.

Do i believe him? 50% of me does. The other 50%, has mixed feelings. He is probably anxious which could explain the upset stomach, but why not tell me earlier. He said he was in the pub drinking orange squash, that could be true, as he cant be on his own and he would have company and he probably couldn’t stomach anything else, but a part of me thinks he has already had too much to drink to be able to drive.

Im sorry but i dont know the truth, and thats how our relationship has got for me, i dont know what to believe anymore from him. Its not a biggie, and i just have to accept i just dont know, other than the fact that he is not coming round.

So we will go again not having had any talks about the relationship AGAIN, this happens everytime, and he will try and brush it under the carpet AGAIN and not address anything and i think that is always because he doesnt want to hear anything i might want to say. He has done this before and thinks time will just shift the discussions away. I agree he may be too anxious to talk but i dont want to keep going in circles with it, something has to change.

He hasnt called the doctor to get an appointment, that is up to him, he knows he has to. Also, why do we have to go away somewhere to chat, neutral territory?

Im not worrying about it, just need some advice for going forward please.

[Supertrouper]

Ok so i texted him to see if he was ok and got home ok as he was unwell. He called back and he was still in the pub. Guess my gut instincts were right to be 50/50. Not impressed.

[once removed]

Im not worrying about it, just need some advice for going forward please.

i would focus more on enjoying time together. keeping things fun, light, upbeat. i would also focus on connecting emotionally.

if things are too heavy, too much talk about ground rules etc, the relationship can feel more like a chore, and you really dont want that when youre reconciling.

enjoy your time together and have fun for now. build progress, and then, in times of calm, do a "check in" about your relationship, how you both feel its going, what could be better, etc.

[Supertrouper]

Hi, thanks. I can do that and focus on my own emotional health and the communication tools.

I would like to ask though because he will do the push- pull behaviour, how is it best to respond to that. I recognise when it happens, he hardly initiates contact when pulling away/pushing me away and initiates contact when he is pulling me in and he feels i am pushing him away, im not, he just feels it. I usually initiate contact when he is pulling away and just give him space till he initiates contact first and then when he pulls me in, i actually dont do any different to what i would normally do, i just behave normally. Any ideas of improving this behaviour on both sides, well my side mainly to ease it a bit.

[Supertrouper]

He went away to work again yesterday. We texted and i admed him to call when he got into his hotel.

He called just before he got on the plane and although stressed because of the journey, we had a good catch up.

He then called me when he got to the hotel, more stressed.  Well that was a different story. Hed still got an upset stomach, so i was just asking questions about why he might have an upset stomach because he said it might need looking at and he then said, ‘you might have two degrees but i know what i know’. I was just asking questions about symptoms, not making any judgements or diagnoses, im not a doctor. Then of course, he had to rush off to the loo. Then i got a text back saying ‘i barely made it to the loo’. That was obviously my fault, because when i didnt validate him about anything and said hoped hed have a good sleep anyway, he just texted one word ‘night x’. So then i knew he was in a mood.

So i will call him today and no doubt i will get about the loo incident, so i will have to validate about his frustration then.

[once removed]

you dont have to validate everything 

why not either switch gears to light, upbeat, fun, romantic, or just give him some space?