Mom's birthday, message from enabler dad, deciding on what to do next

[Vanilla Sky]

It's been 3 months since I last spoke to my uNPD/uBPD and tomorrow is her birthday.
She has been giving me the silent treatment since mid-December when she started a fight with my husband and left my house crying and slamming doors. As soon as she left my house she started calling my in-laws to tell them how horrible my husband is. She, of course, expects me to apologize for not taking sides with her. She is used to giving me and my brother the silent treatment, for years at times. I could only recognize how severely NPD she is when my T asked me: do you think your mother would call you if she knew you are pregnant or have a serious illness? I don't think she would.

Yesterday I invited my father to come and have a coffee with me, to spend some time together and also because I wanted to give him the gift I bought her for her birthday. He replied that they were going to spend the weekend at their beach house and he would come some other time.

This morning he sends me the following message:

"Hi vanilla sky. No need to give her a gift because she won't accept it. She did not open the gift you gave her for Christmas. This is a good opportunity for you to give her the gift yourself and give her a hug. Your husband is not obligated to accept her behaviours, but you are her daughter and she gave you life. Her iPad doesn't work anymore so it would be good if you could help. Tomorrow after you leave work, come here, I will have a cake for her. She will be happy."

My husband thinks it could be a good idea for me to go there tomorrow, give her the gift, stay a few minutes and leave.
He says that if my mother rages at me and reject my gift, that is on her, and that my father will see that and might stop trying to force me to go back be her emotional caretaker as I did what he asked and she rejected me.
If things "go well", I can work on my healing process without the large discomfort that is to be on the ending receiving of the SL.

I don't want to validate her in this "power" position she puts herself in when she gives me the SL. I don't want to let my father believe that my mother can be abusive and I will continue to surrender to the pressure of obligation. I also think it would be easier for me to have some contact with her, although very minimal, as it takes away the discomfort of the SL, which I obviously will have to learn how to deal with at some point. And I also know that will be very hard on me if she rages at me, I have been avoiding making any contact with her because I wanted to be NC while I work on myself but also, and maybe foremost, because of fear of that happening.

I appreciate any advice on what to do next and how to respond to my father if I do decide to break the SL and go there, or I decide to not make contact with her.

[Kwamina]

H Vanilla Sky

Your husband is not obligated to accept her behaviours, but you are her daughter and she gave you life.

To me this pretty much sounds like your father saying that your husband isn't obligated to accept your mother's extreme behaviours, but you in fact are obligated to because you are her daughter. How does this make you feel? Do you believe it's acceptable for you to accept your mother's abusive behaviors just because you are her daughter?

Tomorrow after you leave work, come here, I will have a cake for her. She will be happy."

Here your father is telling you what to do, not even asking, he is commanding you. His focus is on your mother's happiness, yet no mention of your happiness. Perhaps the question is what is it that you want to do? Not what others want you to do or what you or they think you should do, but what is it that you want to do?

Your father assuming this role is an example of the Karpman Drama Triangle. Your mother has cast herself as your victim, you are being cast in the role of persecutor of your mother and your father has assumed the role of rescuer, that is the rescuer of your mother. Can you see the dynamics and triangulation at play here?

The Board Parrot

[Notwendy]

This is reminiscent of how my parent acted with me. My father expected me to tolerate my mother's abusive behavior. I was commanded, not asked how I felt about it.

When I started having boundaries, my father sent me an e mail where he said" I just want us to be a happy family again".

Happy family meant I tolerated my mother's treatment of me and didn't say anything about it. How is that a "happy family"? It means happy family for them, I guess.

I do however, have some contact with my mother for the reason that she is my mother. I also did it because I didn't want to lose the relationship with my father- but that relationship depended on me doing what he wanted when it came to her.

If you still want to do this, I would say tolerate her in small sections of time, and yet, do not tolerate something extremely abusive to you. Although her dysregulations feel like abuse, they are really more about her than you. Staying detached from this emotional drama helps.

Gifts are more for you than her. If you feel better giving her a gift, then do it for you. She can do what she wants with it. I have had a few of mine tossed out by BPD mom- but if I still felt I did the right thing- then that's what matters. ( I also wouldn't buy something expensive so I don't feel it was wasteful)

[Vanilla Sky]

Hi Kwamina.

How does this make you feel? Do you believe it's acceptable for you to accept your mother's abusive behaviours just because you are her daughter?

My father saying that doesn't make me feel obligated to accept my mother's abusive behaviour towards me anymore. It makes me see how, consciously or not, he is trying to push the obligation button on me.

Here your father is telling you what to do, not even asking, he is commanding you. His focus is on your mother's happiness, yet no mention of your happiness.

It really breaks my heart. He came to visit me twice in a short time after my mother's outburst. In both visits, he tried to make feel bad about not reaching out to her to apologize. The same thing as always.. "you are her daughter, she gave you life, we have to be the bigger person because she is like a child, you are being immature, she will never talk to you again if you don't apologize, etc."

I told him that I needed time to work on myself because I was feeling that my relationship with her would put me into depression. That I was distancing myself from my mother not because of her latest outburst, but because of a lifetime of abuses, and I told some of the abuses that he didn't know of. His response after hearing about the abuses was "I know she was never easy on you, but I also have been through so much with her, we have to learn how to deal with her".

After that conversation, he didn't initiate any contact with me anymore. I sent a few messages to him, he responded, but he never actually reached out to me or asked how I am doing after all I have told him.

Recognizing my mother's illness and knowing that she will never change is not an easy thing to process, but my father's behaviour is what is killing me. We were good friends, I would like to have a relationship with him, but it seems that it will depend on how much he will be able to differentiate from her.

Perhaps the question is what is it that you want to do? Not what others want you to do or what you or they think you should do, but what is it that you want to do?

My gut feeling tells me I am not ready to re-establish contact with her yet. My fear of how my father will act if I don't do what he is asking will distance himself from me even more. And the thought that when the time comes to make contact with my mother, this is one more thing to handle with her: you ignored me on my birthday.
What I want to do is what is best in the long run to have a LC relationship with her and good  relashionship with my father.

Your father assuming this role is an example of the Karpman Drama Triangle. Your mother has cast herself as your victim, you are being cast in the role of persecutor of your mother and your father has assumed the role of rescuer, that is the rescuer of your mother. Can you see the dynamics and triangulation at play here?

Yes, I can see the dynamic and you described it so well. I don't know how to get out of the triangle when the victim is giving me the silent treatment.

[Vanilla Sky]

Hi Notwendy, thank you for sharing your history with me, it's helpful to hear from people that have been through this although I feel sorry knowing you have been there too. I relate a lot to what you wrote.

If you still want to do this, I would say tolerate her in small sections of time, and yet, do not tolerate something extremely abusive to you. Although her dysregulations feel like abuse, they are really more about her than you. Staying detached from this emotional drama helps.

I still want to have a relationship with her, and I am coming to terms that the only possibility is a low contact relationship. I don't know if my father will be able to have a relationship with me if I go NC with my mother. My brother went NC with her for a few years, and my father had very little contact with him until my brother had a son, so he wanted to be in contact with his grandson.

Gifts are more for you than her. If you feel better giving her a gift, then do it for you. She can do what she wants with it. I have had a few of mine tossed out by BPD mom- but if I still felt I did the right thing- then that's what matters. ( I also wouldn't buy something expensive so I don't feel it was wasteful)

I totally agree with you. I bought a gift for her because it makes me feel good to do that, but being honest, I also do that so it's one less thing for her to complain when the time comes to re-initiate some contact with her. Going with my gut feeling on this...

[JNChell]

Hi, Vanilla Sky. I’m glad that you spoke of your “”gut”. Some people say that it’s real, some say it isn’t. What’s your take on gut feelings? My T tells me to trust mine. She’s been pretty accurate on things. I like your screen name BTW. I haven’t seen that movie in years.

[Kwamina]

Recognizing my mother's illness and knowing that she will never change is not an easy thing to process, but my father's behaviour is what is killing me.

Your mother is disordered, yet it is indeed important to recognize the role your father plays. Your father's own behavior and how he chooses to cope with your mother's behavior, is also quite unhealthy and in this case damaging to his own child (you). Why do you think it is your father chooses to be in this relationship with your mother and chooses to act the way he does?

My gut feeling tells me I am not ready to re-establish contact with her yet.
…….
What I want to do is what is best in the long run to have a LC relationship with her and good  relashionship with my father.

Balancing these two can be tricky. Boundaries are primarily about protecting our own well-being and if you currently have serious concerns about how your mother's behavior will affect you, it's indeed wise to really consider if re-establishing contact is the right move for you right now. You've been dealing with this for years and since her birthday is tomorrow, I can see how that would add extra stress now, yet in the long run her birthday tomorrow likely won't be the deciding factor in whether you're able to have any kind of relationship with her in the long run.

I don't know how to get out of the triangle when the victim is giving me the silent treatment.

Do you perhaps feel a burden or guilt that you are supposed to do something to make her stop giving you the silent treatment? Is that burden or guilt perhaps what's keeping you stuck on the Karpman Triangle?

[Vanilla Sky]

Hi JNChell, thanks for posting here.

What’s your take on gut feelings? My T tells me to trust mine. She’s been pretty accurate on things. I like your screen name BTW. I haven’t seen that movie in years.

This morning I was thinking about the idea of going to her house tomorrow, as my father asked, and let her rage at me so my father sees that, or if she doesn't rage at all I would be "free" from the discomfort of the silent treatment. But it somehow didn't feel right. I think I was only reacting to my father's message and going for the "easiest" thing to do at the moment - temporarily less guilt and less shame. My gut feeling tells me: if your mother rages at you, you will be very affected. If she does not rage and things "go well", how is that going to make things better after her birthday, will I want to be in contact with her? My answer is no, I am not there yet.

[Vanilla Sky]

Great observations and questions, Kwamina. The help from you and others is beyond words  

Why do you think it is your father chooses to be in this relationship with your mother and chooses to act the way he does?

I think he feels good being her hero, plus some convenient religious beliefs. He believes that he, my mother and I are a family from past lives. He said that he has seen us together in a past life regression session. He says that he didn't see my brother with us in those visions, and that is why my brother is not close to us. I never believed in that. I see that my father found in religion what he needed to stay married with my mother and to not feel guilty about the relationship with his son.

You've been dealing with this for years and since her birthday is tomorrow, I can see how that would add extra stress now, yet in the long run her birthday tomorrow likely won't be the deciding factor in whether you're able to have any kind of relationship with her in the long run.

I have been giving a lot of thought on it since posting here this morning. I can see that I was probably just reacting to my father's message and that if I go there tomorrow or call her is more likely to make things worse in the long run. I do need the distance from her to heal and learn to have boundaries and low expectations. She raging at me would affect me in a bad way. If she does not rage and things "go well", that won't make things better or resolve anything, it may even make it worse because I don't want to be in contact with her for now.

Do you perhaps feel a burden or guilt that you are supposed to do something to make her stop giving you the silent treatment? Is that burden or guilt perhaps what's keeping you stuck on the Karpman Triangle?

Yes, I do feel the burden. I don't feel guilty for the discussion between her and my husband and don't feel guilty for not taking sides with her or not apologizing. I feel guilty for not "trying enough", or just "getting over it" to have a relationship with her, and that is potentialized 100x when my father steps in.

So now I am thinking about the message I will respond to my father. I don't want to point out what he is doing as he will feel blamed and criticized. I want to be careful with the words because the decision to not be there tomorrow will already make him unhappy and could somehow "confirm" in his mind that I am the bad daughter that my mother says I am. I do appreciate any suggestions.

[JNChell]

Are you familiar with triangulation? I’ll be blunt. Your father is an enabler for your mother. Do you agree? I’m sorry, but I’m seething while reading your post: https://www.bing.com/search?cp=1252&FORM=FREESS&q=Karpman&q1=site%3Abpdfamily.com

Are you worried at all about what your dad is saying? Talk like that seems a bit concerning.

Stepping outside of the situation, I mean you looking at you. What do you see when you see yourself interacting with your parents? Is It comfy? Is it safe?

[yamada]

Last year my endad confessed that he let my PDsister and NPDmother get away with everything, because he cannot handle conflict. He is more fearful of them than me. He went the full "Oh how awful all this conflict, I never wanted this, I just want you and your sister to be family." He put his avoidance of conflict and therefore himself before everything else and this is the consequences. As my daughter says he made his choices.  I accept it. I cant change it and I will not own his decision and make it easier for him. I say thats sad Dad but this is what happens. Best stay out of things and just leave it to me and mum and sister.
Maybe your dad needs to butt out and leave you to work it out yourself. Your mother didn't have to have you and she did. Parents do what parents do because that is the job. You don't parent your kids because you can use it for emotional credit later on.
So do what you want. and see  a therapist and get help with the conversation you need to have with your Dad in order to do whats best for you. Choose you.

[Maya L]

 “Your husband is not obligated to accept her behaviours, but you are her daughter and she gave you life. “

- This makes me angry.

I think people can feel different about this, but my opinion is that we might have some obligations to an abusive ill parent, like making sure they have a roof over their head etc. But are we obligated to spend time with them or accept their behavior when they abuse us?

You are her daughter, SHE should treat YOU better. Mothers are supposed to be nice and gentle to their daughters, they have no right to be abusive just because they gave you life. Abuse is never right, even if someone gave you a lot of material things or saved your life, right?

Something you might think about is if she would really be happier with you around or not. What would your father say if you asked him this? Sometimes I feel like my mother has decided that whatever I do is wrong. Like she decides after my action if it is right or not. If I turn left I should have turned right, if I turn right then I should have turned left etc. Do you feel the same? If nothing is approved by her than we might as well do what makes us happy.

Remember that if your relationship with your father weakens, it is not your fault, even if it happens because you choose to spend less time with your mother. He has a choice to make and he could do it differently. Can you build a closer relationship with your brother? Can you find common feelings about your family and grow stronger together? 

[Vanilla Sky]

Are you familiar with triangulation? I’ll be blunt. Your father is an enabler for your mother. Do you agree?

Are you worried at all about what your dad is saying? Talk like that seems a bit concerning.
Stepping outside of the situation, I mean you looking at you. What do you see when you see yourself interacting with your parents? Is It comfy? Is it safe?

Hi WL, I agree 100% that my father is an enabler for my mother, and it's been that way since I can remember.
It's been eye-opening and heartbreaking to see the pattern in his behaviours. It is definitely nothing like comfy and safe and my mother is around. I am hypervigilant. When only my father is around it is nice, we are good friends, we can talk for hours and have a beer together. It feels safe with him, and that's probably one of the reasons that took me so long to see his role in the family.

[Vanilla Sky]

Hi yamada, thank you for sharing your history with me.

He put his avoidance of conflict and therefore himself before everything else and this is the consequences.

I relate so much to this. My father is known for avoiding conflict, even in his professional career. He used to tell people that my mother "doesn't just slap the kids, she beats them until she gets calm". My father had put his avoidance of conflict before his children physical safety, and there is no excuse for that, only consequences.

Maybe your dad needs to butt out and leave you to work it out yourself.

This makes a lot of sense. And looks like I need to set some boundaries with my father too, not only with my uNPD mother.

Choose you.

Thank you for this! It feels so validating and right to read "choose you".

[Vanilla Sky]

Mothers are supposed to be nice and gentle to their daughters, they have no right to be abusive just because they gave you life. Abuse is never right, even if someone gave you a lot of material things or saved your life, right?

Abuse is never right, even if the abuser was once abused. I keep telling that to myself.
And I am not even asking for love or kindness or support from her. I am just not accepting the abuse anymore.

Something you might think about is if she would really be happier with you around or not. What would your father say if you asked him this?

That's a good question. She can be temporarily "happy" (don't know if I can call it happiness) when she is getting the attention she wants from me. I think that gave me the wrong idea that I can make her happy. If I take all her phone calls, if I let her dump in me everything that is bothering her, if I don't go to my in-laws more often that I go to her house, if I take sides with her when she thinks my father is cheating on her, if I.. if I... that's a never-ending taking and not giving anything back.

Remember that if your relationship with your father weakens, it is not your fault, even if it happens because you choose to spend less time with your mother. He has a choice to make and he could do it differently.

Thank you so much for this. I feel very validated. I am going to meet him sometime this week, and I will let him know that I love him and want him in my life, that he and I can have a good relationship as we always had. It is not "us against her", it is a father and daughter having a good relationship. I have that right, he has that right. He has options.

Can you build a closer relationship with your brother? Can you find common feelings about your family and grow stronger together?  

I think so. He left home when I was 12yo when he went NC with my mother for a few years, which ended including me. I recently tried to talk to him about how dysfunctional things are in our family, but he changes the subject. He lives in another country and we talk every other month, and it's usually about what is going on in his life. Getting closer to him is something I am going to try when I have some energy to work on that.

Thank you Maya.

[chronsweet]

Hi Vanilla,

Just wanted to let you know that I am currently NC with my mom too.  The reason is really ridiculous.  Just like yours is ridiculous, right?  Do you ever feel like she wants to pick fights with you to be mad at you so she can dump her miseries on someone else? 

I have been no contact since a couple days before the New Year.  I keep thinking in my head, 'WOW, chronsweet, it has been a long time since you talked to your mom."  I ask myself, 'do you miss the communication?'  My answer is absolutely not.  It is so quiet and peaceful.  I am not obligated to literally take at least one and as many as 10 phone calls in one day listening to the same rhetoric over and over and over.  How do you feel not speaking to her? 

I also am not doing this to 'get back at my mom'.  I really do love her and I want the best for her.  I just personally cannot handle being emotionally abused by her anymore.  I have had my step-dad come over to my house and speak to my boyfriend.  He asks when we are going to start talking again.  He sounds like your dad, basically wanting me to apologize because she won't and everyone knows it.  I am tired of apologizing and being untrue to myself for things I don't want and things I don't do.  How about you?

[Vanilla Sky]

Hi chronsweet

I am sorry to hear that you had to go NC with your mother. I have read your posts and I relate a lot with your story.

The reason that initiated the NC with my mother (silent treatment from her side) is ridiculous indeed.
But the reason for me not reaching out to her, let the silence be the silence, is not because of that recent fight, it is because I have reached my limit. I have no emotional and physical health to put up with it anymore. For my parents, it is all about the fight that happened 3 months ago and me being immature. For me, it's more than 30 years of a dysfunctional family relationship that got us to this point.

How do you feel not speaking to her? 

I feel sad, but I feel I am making progress somehow. Once a week I have one of those days of hopelessness, I cry a lot, I don't want to leave my house. That voice inside me saying that what I am doing is wrong, that I will regret, that I am going to lose my parents, that I should "just try one more time", that I am not strong enough to deal with people judging me for doing this. In those days, I am just sitting with it. I cry everything out. I talk to my husband. I come here and read and sometimes post and that has been doing for me what therapy could not do yet.

He sounds like your dad, basically wanting me to apologize because she won't and everyone knows it.  I am tired of apologizing and being untrue to myself for things I don't want and things I don't do.  How about you?

I reached my limit on doing that, so the NC was going to happen sooner or later. I don't know how long it is going to last. It's been decades of dysfunction and denial, so I have to accept that this process won't be easy nor quick.

[Panda39]

He came to visit me twice in a short time after my mother's outburst. In both visits, he tried to make feel bad about not reaching out to her to apologize. The same thing as always.. "you are her daughter, she gave you life, we have to be the bigger person because she is like a child, you are being immature, she will never talk to you again if you don't apologize, etc."

Um no, you don't have to be the "bigger person" and go back for more abuse no you don't. And simply because someone gave birth to you does not mean you owe them something.

The above is FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) more on FOG...
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=82926.0

Panda39

[chronsweet]

I totally on on the same page as you.  You seem to know where you want to be.  In terms of emotional health.  It is very hard and painful indeed.

I did a Youtube search and found this crazy video that was titled something like 'Voicemail from my Borderline Mother'  It sounded so similar to my own mother, nit the exact words of course but the overall theme and tone was just the same.  Your story and what you going thru is the same too.  And countless others. 

I think there is light for you on your journey.  I have been looking at it as a time to dethaw, let my inhibitions down, relax, and focus on myself.  The farther I get down the road, the more it feels like I just need some more time, alone.  It is so very stressful what it does to the mind and soul. 

Good luck in finding health and peace away from  the craziness.

[Vanilla Sky]

I wanted to thank you all for listening and helping me through these hard days   

I was lucky to make an appointment my T yesterday. I told her what was going on and showed her the message from my father. I will try to summarize how she wrapped up our session, perhaps this can be helpful to others here.

- All the emotions that you felt were expected to happen. You are tuned with yourself. There is nothing wrong going on with how you felt.
- Putting your emotions into words and sharing with other people made your fears and guilty thoughts come to a place of consciousness and not "assumptions" anymore.
- When the night came on the day of your mom's birthday, you said you wanted to call her late night. You felt you have made the wrong decision for not calling or going to see her. You felt crushing guilt and you were keeping that to yourself until your husband saw you were too quiet. He asked you to talk to him. When you told him how guilty you were feeling, you brought it to a consciousness place again. The guilt feeling was not overwhelming anymore.
- Emotions are emotions and not facts. You are learning that, and with time and work these emotions will not be so overwhelming.
- This is probably one of the first times you have chosen you in your entire life.
- I support you on your decision for staying NC with your uNPD mother on her birthday. Your father can think that he is doing the right thing and being well-meaning, but what he is doing here is outsourcing his discomfort to you again. I am proud that you have chosen you. This is a huge step in your healing process.

[JNChell]

Hey there, VS.  I’m glad that you’re finding help from other members here.

I am proud that you have chosen you.

How did you receive this and how did it feel to be validated on it? It sounds like your T is on board with you.

[Vanilla Sky]

I am proud that you have chosen you.

 thank you JNChell. I am at peace with my choice and I think this internal peace comes from having what I choose to do and how I feel about it aligned.

How did you receive this and how did it feel to be validated on it? It sounds like your T is on board with you.

Being validated on this was fundamental to me. I struggle a lot with the "bad person/ungrateful daughter" label from my uNPD/uBPD mother. In this process, as I grow and get to feel my feelings, understand my reactions, and own my decisions, I am more conscious about my behaviours and more confident that I am not a bad person nor an ungrateful daughter.

[JNChell]

This is really great to read. Is it safe to say that you’re grabbing yourself and moving forward into healing?

[Harri]

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The continuation can be found here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=335614.0