Is this a breakthrough ?

[Our abuse recovery guide]

I would value your input bpdfamily.
My biggest fear is to be falsely imprisoned, I now realise this was because I was scapegoated as a child and repeatedly falsely accused. My sisters was the “lost child” in the triangulation, so her approach has been denial.
 
Historically I have done a lot for my sister, so the first time she could have helped me was when I fell ill with CPTSD. But she found it “too painful” to go there. No help, she is quiet selfish.
Having watched the Michael Jackson Neverland documentary, it was the first time I saw strangers on a mainstream program accurately describe how I was made to feel as a child. What it made me realise was the worst of my physical abuse ended when my sister became old enough to notice things. So I guess, there's no chance anyone in my family will ever acknowledge all the fractured ribs and black eyes, were anything but me being clumsy ? That's my first question.

I do remember a friend once saying “Why on earth do they call you clumsy. It took me months to learn to juggle and you did it in weeks.”  In truth, I’m not at all clumsy. This brings me to my recent trigger. I went NC with my BPD because my son was being knocked about and scapegoated. Again, only I rescued him, everyone else (including his mother) saw no evil, did no evil. So my BPD is pushing hard at that trigger, i.e. penalising my son. She copied me into a e-mail describing what presents his cousins got, then didn’t send him anything on his birthday. My trigger made me want to talk about this, but I know that’s what my BPD wants. She wants to see evidence that he’s upset and my sister is worried her kids will lose out. So my question is simple. Even though I have this almighty want to validate my childhood – is it true that will never come from my FOO (I assume so , just need confirmation) ?

When my BPD triggers me, I must do medium chill and prove it never works, no matter how unfair. I must except and forgive my sister for being week as all she knows is avoidance. I have to forgive my BPD mother, because she can't change. Trouble with all this, is it looks again like walking on egg shells around these inflexible people. But I guess the difference this time is I'm doing it for me rather than them ?

But never forgive my psycho bro, because he’s got a history of trying to destroy people, he realy goes to town. The best defence is No Contact and starve him of information, so he can't use it to con ? As Hannibal said "We covet what we see every day Clorisa." meaning he will be getting jealous and sabotaging people he sees often.

I also notice if I ever try to speak the truth, my NPD and BPD get very, very aggressive. When my BPD called to see if her scapegoat had got the message, all I said was why not try being nice to him and then he may come around.  My goodness, she exploded with "How dare you" and "I never done anything wrong." She says it with such conviction, they must believe their own hype. As for the Neverland documentary, it's very well put together and looks authentic, but I warn you its very triggering and yet wonderful to see people talking openly about this. It builds much needed awareness.

[HappyChappy]

I would value your input bpdfamily.
My biggest fear is to be falsely imprisoned, I now realise this was because I was scapegoated as a child and repeatedly falsely accused. My sisters was the “lost child” in the triangulation, so her approach has been denial.
 
Historically I have done a lot for my sister, so the first time she could have helped me was when I fell ill with CPTSD. But she found it “too painful” to go there. No help, she is quiet selfish.
Having watched the Michael Jackson Neverland documentary, it was the first time I saw strangers on a mainstream program accurately describe how I was made to feel as a child. What it made me realise was the worst of my physical abuse ended when my sister became old enough to notice things. So I guess, there's no chance anyone in my family will ever acknowledge all the fractured ribs and black eyes, were anything but me being clumsy ? That's my first question.

I do remember a friend once saying “Why on earth do they call you clumsy. It took me months to learn to juggle and you did it in weeks.”  In truth, I’m not at all clumsy. This brings me to my recent trigger. I went NC with my BPD because my son was being knocked about and scapegoated. Again, only I rescued him, everyone else (including his mother) saw no evil, did no evil. So my BPD is pushing hard at that trigger, i.e. penalising my son. She copied me into a e-mail describing what presents his cousins got, then didn’t send him anything on his birthday. My trigger made me want to talk about this, but I know that’s what my BPD wants. She wants to see evidence that he’s upset and my sister is worried her kids will lose out. So my question is simple. Even though I have this almighty want to validate my childhood – is it true that will never come from my FOO (I assume so , just need confirmation) ?

When my BPD triggers me, I must do medium chill and prove it never works, no matter how unfair. I must except and forgive my sister for being week as all she knows is avoidance. I have to forgive my BPD mother, because she can't change. Trouble with all this, is it looks again like walking on egg shells around these inflexible people. But I guess the difference this time is I'm doing it for me rather than them ?

But never forgive my psycho bro, because he’s got a history of trying to destroy people, he realy goes to town. The best defence is No Contact and starve him of information, so he can't use it to con ? As Hannibal said "We covet what we see every day Clorisa." meaning he will be getting jealous and sabotaging people he sees often.

I also notice if I ever try to speak the truth, my NPD and BPD get very, very aggressive. When my BPD called to see if her scapegoat had got the message, all I said was why not try being nice to him and then he may come around.  My goodness, she exploded with "How dare you" and "I never done anything wrong." She says it with such conviction, they must believe their own hype. As for the Neverland documentary, it's very well put together and looks authentic, but I warn you its very triggering and yet wonderful to see people talking openly about this. It builds much needed awareness.

[Turkish]

Clarice.

By "knocked about" do you mean that your mum physically assaulted him?

[HappyChappy]

This is the thing, even on this forum, we don’t seem to discuss the physical abuse. I can’t believe I’m the only one to have experienced it.  They start by slapping , to get you use to physical contact, to check others don’t complain and then escalate it and bring it behind closed doors. So when you complain, people are thinking, but she only slapped him, he is over reacting.

My brother hit me with a cricket bat and an iron rod. He kicked me out of a moving car. He use to burn me with a cigarette in the same place, so when I complained I only had one burn mark  to show. So on the day with my son, we’d had reports he and my BPDm had been slapping and punched very badly (he had a brus) behind closed doors.  This brock the trust, i.e. my bro should never have been alone with them, and somehow he’d engineered it.

So on the day we went NC, he started slapping him on the hand and escalated this until he had slapped so hard behind his head he fell forwards and almost hit the plate, then he pushed his head into his plate of gravy just to make sure. The excuse for this was my son touched his food with his hand. My BPD use to rub my head in things, it’s humiliating.

Any hoo, my BPD has everyone convinced I was over reacting as always, but my fear was that it was escalating and it needed stopping at that point. Yet my dad and others sat with their head in their plates , hoping this wasn’t turned on them. My wife and dad agree with me, but kept quiet on the day. Would you have sat by if that happened to your son ? Oh and I forgot, when I did complain I got a torrent of shouting and finger poking  whilst my bro insulted me and my family for 10 minutes which included a lesson on how to parent properly. My bro has never had a partner, only ever had one friend and has lived alone his whole life. Psycho. I read a report that stated 50% of all violent crime in America was committed by Psychopaths. This is because they plan it, as a tool of F.O.G. and use it over and over and over. Where are I guess the other 50% is spur of the moment one off stuff.

But why don’t we discuss the physical abuse ? It can’t just be me.

[Kwamina]

Hi HappyChappy

You experienced some horrible abuse. I am very sorry your own family treated you this way.

I think you definitely did the right thing by taking action to protect your son. The way your brother treated your son is absolutely unacceptable and most definitely classifies as child abuse. I can imagine that this experience quite affected your son.

I don't believe you are the only one who experienced physical abuse, in fact I've seen several posts from members who have talked about the physical abuse, in some cases extreme physical abuse even.

My own uBPD mother was never physically violent towards me and I know why. Not because she was fearful of leaving marks, but because in her mind directly physically hurting your kids is the only thing she considers as actual abuse. Her emotional and psychological abuse of her own children in her mind isn't abuse though, she considers that normal behavior. My mother has a very narrow definition of abuse when it comes to her own behavior and in her mind she never was abusive because she never directly physically hurt her children.

These are some tough memories to process and having seen that particular documentary, clearly brought everything to the forefront of your mind again. Do you perhaps feel like watching this triggered your cPTSD? If so, I would advise you to take it easy and be extra kind to yourself

The Board Parrot

[HappyChappy]

Thanks Kwamina bravely answering the questions, others fear to answer. I took your advise of being good to myself and it worked.    I'm going to be good to myself a week next Tuesday as well.

[Harri]

Hi Happy C.   

Even though I have this almighty want to validate my childhood – is it true that will never come from my FOO (I assume so , just need confirmation) ?

I agree that it won't ever come from your FOO but (!) you are validated here and by your friends who love you and in time you will come to be able to validate your abusive past for yourself.  Trust what you know happened; your experiences and the physical, emotional and verbal abuse.  You were abused Happy C.   

There have been posts that talk about physical abuse.  Why not start a thread?  I am sure there are plenty of people who can relate.  They may not post in it though I think some will and it will do you and the lurkers good to talk about it.  It is important and so are you.  It would be a step towards validating your own experience.

You can talk about it here.  We've got you.   

[HappyChappy]

Thanks Harri, you really are a sweetheart. And thank you Turk and Kwamina (in a manly way).

You may regret encouraging me to talk about this but here goes:
OK my Psychopathic brother:
He beat me up using a cricket bat, despite being 5 inches taller and 8 stone heavier than me, he always used an unfair advantage. His excuse was we were playing cricket. Thats all he needed to say  

He cracked my rib by beating me with a metal bar, other members of the gang pulled him off and gave him a talking too – but our BPD mum had told us both he’s the golden child, so he felt  totally entitled and argued with them all. I still remember members of the gang saying “What is wrong with your brother ?” so many times, they asked me. The gang protected me from him, I owe them a lot.

He gave me 7 black eyes, he would slam my head against the bed post. Apparently this was me being clumsy - but only the bedpost was eye hight (when I was young) - so again logically this excuses didn't work, but our BPD always convinced. Same when he kicked me out of a moving car - my Dad said he's seen it, but my BPD mum was the passenger and convinced him he hadn't seen right.

He then blamed the cracked rib on the eldest member of the gang, and his BPD believed him over the entire gang and the victim.  It was this level of denial that was quiet scary. Those two could do whatever they wanted.

My BPD mum left me age 6 or 7 in a foreign city, saying she’d forgotten to pick me up. I walked all day, out of the city and into the countryside. I remember getting worried because it was falling dark. A policeman picked me up and somehow figured who the English family was. This was somehow my fault and I got the belt. My BPD was very, very keen on corporal punishment.

She left me again a year later in a city in the UK. My Dad somehow found me when he got back from work. I had waited next to where the car had been parked. This did lead to my BPD having to go to the Drs, but she came back saying it was terribly behaved children, that’s the problem. .

Then there was the time I ran away, was out for 2 weeks (it was soo cold) and my BPD had convinced everyone to not go to the police or tell anyone. Otherwise it would just encourage me. My friend said “Isn’t it funny I found you in one hour, and your parents couldn’t find you in two weeks. My friends and others were forever pointing out how odd my BPD and NPD  where, and yet  my BPD had total and utter control over everyones perceptions. That was the scariest thing of it all, how she made you feel totally helpless. I’m beginning to understand why many on here have an element of fondness towards their BPD, whereas I have none. She was a total and utter evil, manipulated sh*t.   She never worked a day in her life and was ignorant as they come. She use to spit in my face and rub my head in things (when I was young).

Thing is , at the time I assumed no one would believe me, because my BPD could always swing it her way. But when I told my friends they were "We told you your bro was weird and mum is scary." They say I'm very congenial and easy to get on with, but they say my bro makes you skin creap. We could not be more different.

Still its over now, time to adjust , time to heal.

[Harri]

 

I have no regrets asking you to share these experiences here.  You are strong and courageous and so very precious to us all Happy C.  sharing your story, with as many details as you did is a step forward for you and a great example for all of us.  Speaking out, letting out the shame that may still be attached is vital.  I forget how he words it but Skip often says daylight is the best disinfectant. 

I am so sorry for what you experienced.  Reading about the physical abuse, the mocking and the abandonment is stunning.  Reading that you were left in a town all by yourself and your mom played dumb is horrifying Happy C.  You did not deserve any of that and I hope you know that.  It is heartbreaking to me that you experienced that but at the same time I am not at all surprised that you survived and overcame.

I don't think your family will ever be able to validate that.  Maybe not even your sister.  She has her own history and her own pain and her not seeing what happened to you is not a reflection of you or your value or does it negate your experience.   Ignorance is like a disease when it comes to this sort of stuff.  No excuse though.  It just is.  People I think don't want to see of acknowledge it.   In some cases the choice to remain ignorant is criminal... as is your mom and brothers behaviors.      

Still its over now, time to adjust , time to heal.

Yes, it is over.  It is in the past but it still affects the present.  That is okay and that is actually healthy that it does so.  The memories can hurt but they can also heal as you take on a newer and more healthy perspective about them.  Acknowledging and embracing what your friends told you as truth about you.  Taking what I say here as truth too.  It is okay to hurt and it is okay to say I'm not okay right now. 

Sharing the details is so hard HappyC.  Is it too much?  Is it too little and will people scoff at me?  Can others relate?  I want to take it all back and delete my post!  It is a horrid feeling isn't it?  But it is freeing.  Remember... daylight disinfects.  Daylight combined with friends who care is like a never empty can of scrubbing bubbles!  (do you have that cleaner in the UK?) 

Kep sharing.  Even if we don't all respond, we can read and relate in other ways.  You are paving the path for others to do the same here.

Much love to you.     

[Turkish]

Manly bro-hug back.

I read through your first posts to the board and you mentioned your brother hitting your son for licking his plate.  You might have started posting here before I did and/or I just missed it. 

What you describe above are basically felonies committed against you by your brother, and even your mother.  Spitting on someone is,  at least in the USA,  misdemeanor assault. I don't blame you in the least for wanting to have nothing to do with them.

What does healing look like to you? Detailing the abuse is a good first step... get this  out.

[Cat Familiar]

HappyChappy,
It's really painful acknowledging all the horrible abuse that you suffered, but even more painful in the long run keeping it a secret. Detailing all the horrible things my first husband did to me allowed me to be free from the pain from that history. It's a brave thing to share those stories with others.   

Cat

[Kwamina]

Still its over now, time to adjust , time to heal.

It is and it isn't. These memories are still something you carry around with you wherever you go and in that sense the past is still part of our present. In the present as an adult with some distance from your disordered family-members you now indeed have an opportunity to heal from all of these difficult experiences.

I agree with what has been said by others that what your brother and mother did, constitutes criminal behavior towards you. They were very wrong to treat you this way, plain and simple  I know your dad is sadly no longer with you, but his apparent denial of certain aspects of what was being done to you is also an important factor to consider I think.

It's tough indeed, but we can walk along with you every step of the way...…



Okay okay, you'll do the actual walking but I'll be sitting there every step of the way

[once removed]

ideally, its our parents who protect us from the world when we are too young to protect ourselves. and failing that, our siblings.

what happened to you is extraordinarily hard. sharing it can be as well. im glad that you did.

[Irish1477]

I am one who experienced physical abuse. Not at the hands of my BPD, but the people she brought into our lives, and allowed to abuse us.

You are not overreacting by what happened to your son. As you stated above, you have experienced this yourself, and know it is abuse, and not right. The difference is, you are now an adult, not a helpless child that can no longer stand up for himself. You are the adult who stood up for his son, in the face of his own abusers, and said NOT MY CHILD.

I have had to do that myself. I am no contact with my parents because of this, and it was the most difficult thing I have ever had to do, but I was determined not to let this be my child's story. When I struggle, I realize I don't have the strength as a daughter to say no to my parents...but I have the strength as a mother to say no for my child. And that's how I get through it.

This is not easy. I am sorry your father, sister, and wife are not being supportive and standing beside you & your son. But, your son is able to look next to him & see you standing there in support. And that is everything. Much love & strength to you, and your son.

[HappyChappy]

Irish, you may relate to this, but I find singing Irish folks songs very soothing. Mostly Pogues songs. Especially when  your mates joined in, it’s almost like shared grief.

I wondered why the poet laureate lush that is Shane MacGowan wrote Army song, yet he’d never been near a war zone or even joined up. I now realise that it was the common imagery necessary to get that level of sentiment he was feeling. Having CPTSD I often relate to others with PTSD regardless of how it came about.

Shane was also an alcoholic that turned the anger inwards, rather than outwards as your step Dad did and our BPDs did.  Thank you for admitting you hated you mother, something we still can’t do during the light of day, but its important to know some women can not, should not, be mothers. There must be a point at which a mother can no longer claim she is part of the “fairer sex”, where "honour thy mother" no longer holds, were blood is irrelevant. My BPD crossed that line, I realise even for a BPD she was aggressive, she had zero compromise like the love child of Margaret Thatcher and Trump.  Did yours cross all those lines ?

[HappyChappy]

Once removed, Cat Familiar, Harri,Turk and Kwamina thanks so much for your kind replies. Sometimes just knowing someone will respond it soothing enough. They say you get PTSD from experiencing a near death experience. So it would probably be helpful to recount one of mine.

I was asthmatic yet athletic as a child. But before I’d built my lungs up I was reliant on medication. One night I had an asthma attack, it feels like you’re suffocating only slowly. I couldn’t find my inhalers, so I went to my (sadistic) bros bedside table and there they all were. As I tried to take one he woke and instantly wrestled me to prevent me from using one. “They’re mine” he screamed and yet he didn’t have asthma !

My BPD woke and as usual sided with my bro, I was panicking now because I was already exhausted from gasping for breath for way too long. Thankful my Dad woke and they both dropped the pretence.  But the next time this happened Dad was at work, and I never found the inhalers. Your skin turns a different colour when you’ve not had enough oxygen, my lungs hurt so much as if they’d finished a marathon but still couldn’t rest. It was agony. It would have been obvious for all to see. That was the scary bit, those two completely nonchalant over my pain, peering at me as if I were an experiment of theirs. My bro has since shown me a movie of where controlling husband hid the inhalers as a way of murdering his wife, anyone remember what that movie ?

I honestly though I was going to die and I had to hold that thought for what felt like hours upon hours. I would taken a whipping with a cat of nine tails over this. When my Dad got in, he unflinchingly picked me up and ran to the car. He never ran, and my BPD was howling at him, he rarely ignored her but he did this time. When we got to the Emergency room, he was given a serious telling off by the Dr. Seeing medical staff getting angry at someone normally involved my BPD.

To add insult to injury one of the stories my BPD recounted over and over, to install the fear, was how an auntie of hers died from an asthmatic attacked “because they didn’t have medication in the war.” I later asked her sister – they’d never hear of this auntie. I am fairly certain the only concern my NPD and BPD had on these days, was to ensure they could not be blamed. I forgive them. But I have no love for either of them, none whatsoever. Got lots of love for friends and my normal family members, but not for those Bonnie and Clyed wanna bees.

[Kwamina]

Hi again HappyChappy

I am very sorry and saddened that your own mother and brother did these things to you  I am glad you are getting these parts of your story out now.

Reading your last post only reinforces my belief that you were and are absolutely right to take the necessary actions to keep you and your children safe from your mother's and brother's destructive behaviors.

Withholding your medication from you was again just plain wrong. I am very glad you made it through, but even then just experiences that panic and feeling like you can't breathe is already quite traumatic.

It is sad that things are the way they are, but based on what you've shared in this thread, it becomes very clear that your mother and brother are very dangerous people.

You have forgiven them and that is good because it sets you free. You've also set firm boundaries with them which is also good because that keeps you free, while they remain stuck in their self-created prison of dysfunction.

The Board Parrot

[Cat Familiar]

I’m so sorry, HC. I had asthma, and still get glimmers of it in spring, even after going through years of allergy desentization shots.

I understand completely how terrifying that was.   

Cat

[Irish1477]

  Thank you for admitting you hated you mother, something we still can’t do during the light of day, but its important to know some women can not, should not, be mothers. There must be a point at which a mother can no longer claim she is part of the “fairer sex”, where "honour thy mother" no longer holds, were blood is irrelevant. My BPD crossed that line, I realise even for a BPD she was aggressive, she had zero compromise like the love child of Margaret Thatcher and Trump.  Did yours cross all those lines ?

Even friends/family who know what my brother & I have been through would flinch at my declaration of hating my mother. I don't think you can fully understand how someone can hate someone, yet love them at the same time until you have been at the receiving end of their malice & full on war to destroy you. Even now, I question whether my love for her is real, or a biological impulse to love her for no other reason than the fact that she gave me life. The longer I go with no contact, the more my hate turns to pity for her, and as much as it turns my stomach, some compassion. Ugh.

My mother is more of a waif BPD, she never lifted a (physical) hand against us, nor unleashed her verbal tirades to our faces. So, I struggle to say she crossed all of the lines...she allowed others to do this for her, while she was able to claim the role as victim herself, or ignorance. If asked, I would guess she would say she never abused her children, nor played a role in our abuse.

She ignored my pleas as a teenager for help when I was suicidal, left town for the weekend, thus leaving me alone with ample opportunity to end my life. And so someone else could find my body. I've never shared this with anyone other than this group, because I am still trying to protect her. I don't know why.

She was in the room 'feigning' sleep when I was assaulted as a child many times over. Again, a detail I would leave out when telling the story to my therapist.

I still try to protect her sometimes. I have no idea why. Even now I am struggling to post this. My mom as such an amazing puppet master that her role did not completely come to light until I was an adult, and could look back from an adult's perspective. I think I do not want to recognize my mom for the true monster she is, and relaying these events to others would be me doing so.

She should never have been a mother. I struggle to overcome society's pressure to honor thy mother, especially when extended family involve themselves. For now, it is easier, however, as she gets older & death slowly comes knocking on her door, I do not know how I will handle those days. At my core, I am compassionate & tend to give myself even at my own detriment, but I am learning to set boundaries.

How are you setting boundaries? It must be more difficult since your parents are still together, and it sounds like your father has been a trusting relationship in your life? Or, at least someone you could count on to protect you?

[Harri]

Hi HappyC.  To this day I can't stand feeling smothered or feeling like I can't breathe.  It is a truly terrifying feeling for me.  I have asthma as well and I can't imagine not having access to my meds.  I can't imagine a family member taking them away from me or a parent condoning it.    

I forgive them. But I have no love for either of them, none whatsoever. Got lots of love for friends and my normal family members, but not for those Bonnie and Clyed wanna bees.

Fortunately love is not a requirement for forgiveness.  The fact that you do have love in your life for others is not a surprise to me at all.  You are capable of love and are lovable. 

[Irish1477]

I, too, cannot imagine what it must have felt like going that long not being able to breathe. As an adult I had surgery around my throat that caused swelling & restricted my breathing at times, and even knowing it would happen set off every alarm & panic in my body. Do you find you still struggle with anything that naturally restricts your breathing...working out, swimming underwater, etc? I'm learning with C-PTSD that these triggers can come even when we are not consciously aware of them.

[Harri]

HappyC:

Thank you for admitting you hated you mother, something we still can’t do during the light of day, but its important to know some women can not, should not, be mothers. There must be a point at which a mother can no longer claim she is part of the “fairer sex”, where "honour thy mother" no longer holds, were blood is irrelevant.

I missed this earlier and thank Irish for highlighting it.  I think many of us here, on this board at least, have reached that point of knowing being a mother does not grant automatic rights and some mythical being who is all good and all giving.  I find the concept of Motherhood as promoted by society limited and condescending.  Women are capable of abuse, violence, horrible acts and they are being talked about more and more and not just within the context of being tied to a male abuser.

Irish: 

Even now, I question whether my love for her is real, or a biological impulse to love her for no other reason than the fact that she gave me life.

I had the same question about my love being left over survival instinct or real.  I finally decided the love I feel for my mother just is.  My love, or any feeling for that matter, has more to do with me than anyone else, certainly more than who my mother was. 

The longer I go with no contact, the more my hate turns to pity for her, and as much as it turns my stomach, some compassion. Ugh.

So true!  Ugh!  Yep, I get it.  I sometimes feel like I should hate her more than I did.  My current T even asked me at one point if I celebrated when she died, as if expecting me to say yes.  I did not though I felt a great deal of relief.  Again though, my compassion says more about me than my mom.  I think yours does as well and if we never get to that point, that is okay too.  We define and determine our path to recovery not some expectations of others or even of our therapist. 


Irish, the fact that your mom ignored your cries for help just hurts.  I have no idea what might have been going on for her other than extreme selfishness and lack of compassion.  Certainly nothing Motherly about her.  If I were there I would have held you and listened and gotten you some help.   

I still try to protect her sometimes. I have no idea why.

I can relate to this as well.  When my mom was alive I used to want to protect her as well.  I never wanted her to know the true impact and meaning of what she did to us.  I still struggle with that a bit to be honest. 

HappyC, thank you for opening up here and sharing and giving both me and Irish a place to open up as well.

  

[HappyChappy]

 

Even friends/family who know what my brother & I have been through would flinch at my declaration of hating my mother.

So true. Love for me includes loyalty.empathy and respect. Something our BPDs didn’t have.

She ignored my pleas as a teenager for help when I was suicidal.

That’s inhuman, right there. How isolated you must have felt. She has no empathy . Irish most of us have empathy, you can always PM me or many others on here . You just had the wrong phone number (your mum) as a kid, that’s all. [/quote]

She was in the room 'feigning' sleep when I was assaulted as a child many times over. Again, a detail I would leave out when telling the story to my therapist.
My mom as such an amazing puppet master ...She should never have been a mother.
How are you setting boundaries? It must be more difficult since your parents are still together, and it sounds like your father has been a trusting relationship in your life? Or, at least someone you could count on to protect you?

You could be talking about my BPD. She encourage all the violence and rather than feigning sleep, she would leave the room, and tell me off for making him jealous.

I do remember the escalation of the violence, each step brought false hope, I was convinced if mum saw, then if Dad saw, then if the Dr saw the bruises. But the puppet master talked it all away.

OK here’s a synopsis of some of the other crap: he used the date rape drug on me and my sister ; My bro would either con or put the fighters on people, so he got me sacked once; he got me evicted;  put broken glass in my left over food, loosened the main bolt on my motorcycle so it collapsed whilst I was driving it.   I once took an employer to court only to find my bro was behind it all and the guy he conned lost his job. Had to go to ridiculous lengths to uncover some of this stuff. His motive ? Apparently jealousy, at least that's what his diagnosis states. I have always been far more successful than he, but so have a lot of people. According to his diagnosis, he would be permanently jealous of whomever is close by. Sabotage elevates him, being a Sadist he enjoys others pain.

It does appear that some BPD are more menacing than others. I think it’s the Sadistic slant in my family. I’ve often read that people with PD are more devastating once they couple up. Women in particular. Does that explain your scenario Irish ? And Harri, an uSchizophrenic mom, I’ve read a bit about this and I would imagine she must have been among the most challenging. Well done you for not only surviving it but become a big cheese on these boards, we mini cheddars salute you. Feel free to jump in with your own examples of challenging behavior, I would be genuinely interested if you feel ready to share.

Thanks again everyone, this does feel like progress, being able to talk more frankly than before about what happened. As my close friends all said, they believe me, but just don’t know what to say. You guys know what to say.  

[Irish1477]

I do remember the escalation of the violence, each step brought false hope, I was convinced if mum saw, then if Dad saw, then if the Dr saw the bruises. But the puppet master talked it all away.

Ah, that false hope. The belief that THIS TIME was so bad surely someone would stand up & say enough, and intervene. Unfortunately, puppet masters are steps ahead of everyone.

It does appear that some BPD are more menacing than others. I think it’s the Sadistic slant in my family. I’ve often read that people with PD are more devastating once they couple up. Women in particular. Does that explain your scenario Irish ?

Mine had less of a sadistic lean, and more of a victimization role in which the added drama of the children being involved heightened the experience for her, and we were mere collateral damage. Then again, I guess she was just better at hiding her sadistic tendencies than yours? It horrifies me to think how worse my brother & I's life would have been had my step-father had a PD, and not merely an abusive alcoholic. To his credit, he has a smidgen of moral thoughts/actions when sober, and only resorted to emotional abuse.

Your brother must have been the validation your mom had craved her entire life. I wonder if his actions reinforced beliefs/thoughts/actions she already had in her head, but was hesitant to carry out herself? I could be completely off base, but it seems like they potentially fed off of one another?

Thanks again everyone, this does feel like progress, being able to talk more frankly than before about what happened. As my close friends all said, they believe me, but just don’t know what to say. You guys know what to say.  

Thank you for opening up this space in which I felt comfortable sharing. I'm at the stage in therapy in which I am addressing the traumas, and it makes it easier to share here first, before opening up one on one.

[Irish1477]

OK here’s a synopsis of some of the other crap: he used the date rape drug on me and my sister ; My bro would either con or put the fighters on people, so he got me sacked once; he got me evicted;  put broken glass in my left over food, loosened the main bolt on my motorcycle so it collapsed whilst I was driving it.   I once took an employer to court only to find my bro was behind it all and the guy he conned lost his job. Had to go to ridiculous lengths to uncover some of this stuff. His motive ? Apparently jealousy, at least that's what his diagnosis states. I have always been far more successful than he, but so have a lot of people. According to his diagnosis, he would be permanently jealous of whomever is close by. Sabotage elevates him, being a Sadist he enjoys others pain.

If you don't mind my asking, what has your brother been diagnosed with?

[HappyChappy]

If you don't mind my asking, what has your brother been diagnosed with?

My diagnosis is feckin eejit.  But technically he’s a Covert Narcissist with very strong sadistic traits. I’ve often read they are the most dangerous, because they are dysfunctional. A psychopath for example uses charm and only resorts to violence as the last resort. A Covert Narcissist struggles to communicate has not charm, so goes straight for violence. When I learn’t judo and the violence stopped, his covert attacks began.

He also puts a lot into the planning. For example when I went to court, the level of intricacy he used was quiet impressive. He was just trying to get me sacked, but he planned it over 6 months. He’s extremely good at the con and also the Mafioso scaring people into doing stuff. Because of his sadism he clearly gets his kicks out of this sort of thing. It's his narcisstic supply. Putting others down to elevate himself. I've only seen him smile as an adult when someone is in pain or being humiliated. As a child he was fascinated with torturing insects, he killed 3 household pet.

There was one time when he became addicted to a drug (as an adult) and this lead to him being a bit impulsive and sloppy. He even shared a few secrets with me. But it also amplified the violence, he bit the end of someone’s finger off, apparently.  But its also when he did more dangerous attacks on me like mucking about with my motorcycle. I’ve been No Contact (NC) with him since I left home, but as he’s my BPD's golden child, she kept levering him in on any meeting we use to have, so it was more Low Contact (LC).  So I went NC with them both for 5 years, started back with LC with my BPD because my Dad died last year. But might even stop that.

My first girlfriend had a drunken Irish father, but he wasn't violent at all. Still more than a child should have to deal with. It's those that externalise their pain (e.g. BPD/NPD) that do the most damage. Those that internalise it are hurting themselves, saving us in a way.

[Panda39]

Happy Chappy...sending Panda love your way...is that like jungle love? I should stop before I get too inappropriate    Seriously though this mom on the other side of the world sends her love particularly to Little Happy Chappy.

I'm really happy to hear that you are protecting yourself and son, you are doing what your parents were unable to do.  You could have easily gone another way but you didn't.  Among the horrific and I mean horrific abuse perpetrated on you, I am also getting glimpses of others that have been there for you, who validated you, and cared. 

I'm sorry about the C-PTSD my SO's daughter has been diagnosed with PTSD it's not easy to deal with this stuff, but here you are working on you and facing some tough memories.  I think in a lot of ways you have a good understanding of the past...you were abused, you're not in denial, you have a cruel brother and at best enabling mother at worst a co-participant mother and what sounds like an enabling/passive dad.  Although it isn't validating your sister may be telling you "her truth" when she says she doesn't want to talk about it.  Everyone has their own journey and you are way further down the road than any of them. I actually picture your brother going the opposite way with your mom hanging on to his ankle being dragged along behind him and your sister at the starting block deciding when to take her first step seeing you ahead in the distance who knows maybe she's taken a few step that you don't know about...there's some Panda imagery for you    One day your sister may come to you when she's ready (or not) you have opened the door for her to have that difficult discussion some day if she wants to.

It sucks to not get the validation of your experience from your family but frankly they simply are not capable of it. That's just sad all the way around.

I have found in my life with my mommy issues that I have created my own family of people in my life that are supportive of me and who love me the way I am. (Things that my mother isn't capable of)  I hope you have some of those family members...family of your own choosing in the real world.  You definitely have some here. 

"Ease on down the road" 

Panda39

[Woolspinner2000]

Oh HC,

I have been slow to post to anybody of late, but I read your postings and must respond with the same kindness and care that you have shown me as I have been "gathering wool." Please know that you are cared for and loved by us all, including me. 

I, too, was physically abused by my mom and also my dad. Mostly by my uBPDm though, and dad supported her and would step in and do the job when she called him and told him how bad my brother and I had been. Really we were just being kids and had done something that she didn't like and decided we deserved punishment for. Those memories never go away, but thankfully for myself, with all the T I have been in, they are much less potent memories now. I also have a vague shadowy memory that I have not been able to put clarity too, but I remember the feeling of my face being pushed into my plate of mashed potatoes and peas and everyone laughing. That one still causes me to cringe in shame. I do not know why it happened, only that it was my uBPDm, and she was very angry. Like you, there wasn't much fighting it. No one would have ever believed me either. JNChell posted about his mouth being taped shut; mine was too, many times. The list for so many of us can go on and on.

I am so very glad to know that you protected your son! Kudos!   How awful and how wrong for anyone to do that, and it is much worse coming from those who are supposed to love you and protect you and to protect him. Well you showed them up, and the best thing is this: you are breaking the cycle!

Keep going. Keep sharing.
  
Woolsie

[HappyChappy]

Panda you are such a lovely warm person, its shame Pandas are so rare. By the way what do the red shoes symbolise in BPD terms ?
Wools, thanks for you kind words during what must be a very difficult time for you. I have to say, now I’m settled I realy enjoy the benefits of being single. Now you’re not having to focus on supporting hubby, you can focus on yourself.

Thanks again for the kind responce. I though I had got through this, but I now realise much of this I would write in e-mails to my sister or Dad but never send. Both preferred avoidance as a way of dealing with it. When I read about Frizal and that American bus driver, both of whom imprisoned their victums in some of the worst abuse I could imagine. It struck me they must be dysfunctional Narcassist, because most people with a PD can imprison us without using bars. Then I realised, my bro and probably most NPD, have no guilt and are therefore all capable of this. Its only consequences and the watchful eyes of others that protects us.

If my bro was a single parent, for sure his kids wouldn’t stand a chance. And yet his human rights, would trump those of a child’s. Why do we still wait for evidence of the abuse, we had an inkling with Michael Jackson. Jimmy Savil went undetected to his grave with over 300 case, he even looked like a paedophile. Why ?  

When it became undeniable that my bro was continually sabotaging me, the period where he also had the drug issue, I lost all fear. Has anyone here lost all fear ? And now I have heightened fear with CPTSD – bizzar.

When do you know you talked enough about all this stuff ? I appreciate rumination is no good, but this isn’t rumination, its being triggered and talking though the trigger.

[Harri]

When it became undeniable that my bro was continually sabotaging me, the period where he also had the drug issue, I lost all fear. Has anyone here lost all fear ? And now I have heightened fear with CPTSD – bizzar.

Yes.  I have been there with my mom, with my family.  I think it was a combination of things, some related to healing and some defiance.  I no longer saw them as all powerful.  Rather I saw my mother as the small, weak and scared human she was and I saw how she let all of that drive her behaviors.  He mind was seriously twisted and broken too.  I was also tired of giving up bits of me.  It was a slow death caused by a million of infractions, some big, most small and many self-inflicted as I allowed my own fear and inability to let go of my own defenses. 

Yes, it is bizarre to see how fear now cripples me.  It is different than my old fear but the same as well, at least in terms of my way of coping with it.  Withdrawal, isolation, depression, avoidance...

When do you know you talked enough about all this stuff ? I appreciate rumination is no good, but this isn’t rumination, its being triggered and talking though the trigger.

For me it is when I begin to say "okay, so yeah, that happened and it sucked but now what?"  When I no longer feel better after talking things out and am left with that question is when I know it is time for me to focus on what I can do.  I can't change the past.  It happened.  It shaped me.  It damaged me.  It is a part of me.  Now what?  It happens bits at a time for me, sometimes after each memory and sometimes after a cluster of related memories.

How does it work for you HappyC?

[HappyChappy]

When I no longer feel better after talking things out and am left with that question is when I know it is time for me to focus on what I can do...
How does it work for you HappyC?

You are very wise Harri. I need to focus on what I can do. You're right.  I think it works a similar way for me, as it does for you.

The losing fear thing lead to me going berserk with two muggers once, the look they gave me, complete confusion; worry even. One had gone through my pockets and taken $20, they gave it me back and disappeared down the subway. I was lucky. I think I knew they were like me, none violent. Most people don't want to hurt us, they might want our money, but... It's a shame we weren't brought up by most people.