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Frankee
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« on: April 10, 2019, 03:44:25 PM »

I have been reading other people's posts.  I feel empathetic and compassionate for so many troubles we all face.  I want to be able to move forward, but I feel drained.  Has anyone else experienced severe physical abuse and stayed with their SO that has BPD?

The SO BPD has shown signs of getting better with medication and some counseling.  The physical abuse declined for awhile, but came back a few times this year. 

I think I need input of others that dealt with bad physical abuse.  I am at the end of my ropes, but not able to do anything until at least end of May.
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« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2019, 09:51:20 PM »

Well I did deal with bad physical abuse and I finally drew a line in the sand and told myself if it ever happened again, I was done.

My divorce lawyer said something to the effect of "Once it's excusable. If it happens again, then it's not."

I don't even think one time is excusable, but with repeated instances, it certainly colors our perception of our partner and we can never think of them in the same way as how we did before they inflicted physical violence upon us.
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« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2019, 10:49:53 PM »

I know you know it's no secret that I experienced severe abuse. Broken bones, bruises, choking, hitting, sexual assault. I actually just tried the other day to count all the assaults I can remember. The total was over fifty, in about seven and a half years.

I'm guessing you are hoping to hear from someone who experienced severe abuse that ceased when the abuser sought treatment. I searched for that, too. So far, I have come up empty.

Something that opened my eyes was reading the book "Should I Stay Or Should I Go?" It's by Lundy Bancroft. Radcliff recommended it to me. I realized through reading it that mental illness, domestic violence, and substance abuse (meth user uBPDh) are three separate issues that all require intensive treatment. The success of the treatment for all three issues depends on the person having the ability to be honest when facing the issues and root causes and belief systems that the issues originate from.

I realized that my stbx was probably never, ever going to reach that level of honesty. And so far, he hasn't.
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« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2019, 11:41:57 PM »

Many years ago, I was in a relationship with a man who was alcoholic and who I later realized also was uNPD/BPD. It finally reached a level of DV. The first incident was the morning we were scheduled to go to pre-marital counseling -- he told me he wasn't going, we argued, and it resulted in his kicking me in the stomach. Somehow, I continued the relationship. A couple months later, we argued, I left his house, and he caught me in the driveway and pulled me out of my car by my hair.

I write this now and am appalled that it happened, that I allowed it, and that it happened twice.

So yes...so many of us understand.

Everyone has their limit -- I found mine, but not without pain.
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« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2019, 01:13:10 AM »

Abuse of any kind--emotional or physical--forever changes our views of our partners.

It is soul-harming and painful to experience these dysregulations. 

My uBPD H had rages (they seem to have calmed down a bit due to medication for a health issue unrelated to BPD) that terrified me:  I was called the worst names (C-word and B-word), furniture overturned and broken, holes punched in walls and doors (this is called symbolic violence), frequent threats of divorce.

My H has never slapped or hit me, but he has slammed doors, broken objects (symbolic violence) and hollered at me within inches of my face.  These were horrifying to me.

Anyone facing emotional or physical violence (or both) needs read Lundy Bancroft's, "Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men."  Bancroft is an expert on domestic violence and has worked with abusers of all kinds.  Some abusers change while others do not.

That said, his companion book, "Should I Stay Or Should I Go?" is a workbook to help victims of abusers assess their questions on the R/S.  I found myself in so many of those pages, with the book high lighted and marked.

Both can be bought online and I think are in e-format.

If you have time on your hands, I recommend these resources highly.

In the meantime, many hugs coming your way.     
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« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2019, 08:51:14 AM »


Everyone has their limit -- I found mine, but not without pain.

This rings true with me for a lot of things, including physical abuse.  I certainly used to have trouble "realizing" or "sticking to" my limit.  I would start rationalizing or trying to see things from someone else's point of view.

A large part of my journey has been learning to "listen" to my "intuition" or my "inner voice" and to honor that voice...vice figure out ways to make that voice subservient to other things.

Shifting gears to some things Frankee said and appears to be struggling with.

The notion that "it" (dv) got better but came back (albeit apparently not as bad).  I'm going to be bold here and suggest that perhaps Frankee is thinking that means the DV "was the result" of NOT having medicine or NOT having something else figured out.  Perhaps in some way giving a pass or "explanation for" the DV.

There is a balance here that is important.  On the one hand it's important to acknowledge that things have an can get better because there is hope there.

On the other hand it's important to acknowledge your truth AND if you have a partner that "contributed" to that truth in a negative way...that they own that.  The past can't be fixed but it's important to realize that the future is unlikely to be better if the lessons of the past are ignored (or heaven forbid they are "denied")

So...I'm really curious about how Frankee see's her pwBPD "owning" issues of the past (DV and other things)

FF
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« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2019, 09:01:42 AM »

That's a really good point, ff, and I'd second that question to Frankee.

My H's behavior never developed into direct physical violence, but there were a couple of incidents of the breaking things, throwing things. Plenty of emotional and verbal abuse.

During that period, I did a LOT of reading, including the two books AskingWhy and Redeemed mentioned and I, too, did a lot of underlining and circling in both.

One thing I learned from that and from working with my DV counselor is that there are different kinds of change. It is possible for a DV situation to improve. Definitely. It's not terribly common, but it happens. The key, though, is that the abuser has to completely own what they did. They have to acknowledge it, genuinely regret it, and fully and totally commit to putting in the work to change. Apologies and promises never to do it again without accepting responsibility are unlikely to fix the problem long-term. Things may get better -- even for months or years -- but unless they own the role they played, the behavior will, more than likely, resurface.
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« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2019, 10:01:20 AM »

The key, though, is that the abuser has to completely own what they did. They have to acknowledge it, genuinely regret it, and fully and totally commit to putting in the work to change.

Apologies and promises never to do it again without accepting responsibility are unlikely to fix the problem long-term.

Things may get better -- even for months or years -- but unless they own the role they played, the behavior will, more than likely, resurface.

only "timed served" will prove that.

A pattern of 'observed' conduct, day in, day out … weeks, months, years … "time served".

Trust must be earned … it takes time for this to occur.

One slip up anywhere along this path, and its back to square one … any and all trust that was built up, will be swept away in a moment.

What we used to call in the service, "hero to zero" in a split second.

...the abuser has to completely own what they did ... they have to acknowledge it, genuinely regret it, and fully and totally commit to putting in the work to change ...

… mike drop'

Hang in there Frankee, keep posting!

Kind Regards, Red5
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« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2019, 09:00:00 PM »

There are times I really believe that he has owned up to his mistakes.  He talked to me about being so angry before that he was in a haze.  He felt like everything was clouded.  After the medication and counseling, he told me he looks back at everything he did and knows he has a lot of forgiveness and trust to get back.  I feel like he really wants to be the man he knows I deserve.  Then that insidious voice is my head says He's manipulating you, He's trying to bid his time, He's waiting until he knows you will let your guard down.

I am torn.  I have spent so long being manipulated, gas lighted, led to believe that maybe something was seriously wrong with me.  Called such horrid names, asked if I had some social development problems.  The problem is, when I go about my day, I'm a fine.  When I start thinking about what has happened and even typing it out here, brings about feelings/emotions that are mixed with sadness, hurt, rage, heartbreak.

I know I do not feel the same way about him.  Even last night when he had a disregulation, I didn't fight him.  I was taken off guard.  That's what I hate.  Feeling like I can finally relax and be myself again and then he cr@ps all over it.

My biggest issue I am mentally battling currently is the same questions that were plaguing me.  Will he ever truly be happy with me and me alone?  Will he ever truly be happy with just two kids (1 bio, 1 adopted)?  I hate feeling in the back of my mind that he is waiting for me to return to my "normal self" where I am "better" and he can return to trying to reintroduce that lifestyle.  I am not saying he will (he currently said he doesn't want that anymore), but that feeling has taken up hiding in the back of my mind.
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« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2019, 09:48:55 PM »

It’s confusing, isn’t it? He can see his behavior has hurt you, but does he remember that in real time, so that he doesn’t do it again?

Awareness is a step in a good direction. But is it enough to change his habits?

It sounds like you’ve got a bottom line: fidelity and no more pregnancies.
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« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2019, 08:35:31 AM »

  The problem is, when I go about my day, I'm a fine.  When I start thinking about what has happened and even typing it out here, brings about feelings/emotions that are mixed with sadness, hurt, rage, heartbreak.

   Will he ever truly be happy with just two kids (1 bio, 1 adopted)?  


I see a lot of introspection here.

I have had similar struggles when I get in a "loop" of replaying things in the past.  I certainly don't try to "forget" the past, because I don't want to repeat mistakes and I want "motivation" to hold firm to boundaries and decisions I've made for now.  That being said, there certainly have been times when I've replayed so much it's not helpful or actually becomes "hurtful" to what I'm trying to do "right now".

When I catch myself in a bad loop I'll try to change an activity.  Go for a walk, swim or something else.  That works for me.  Let's say I try to have a good 30 minute lap swim.  Usually about the first 10 minutes I'm really still focused in on the loop and as things start loosening up my "thinking" improves between 10-20 min.  Sometimes I'm like a different person when I leave the pool.

Do you have anything you do that breaks the " stinkin' thinkin' " loop.  I've found that doing something is much better than trying to "not think about it".

Switching gears.

The comment about "truly happy" really seemed to stick out to me.  Why on earth are you worrying about him..vice if you will be "truly happy".

Big picture:  Doing things like having a child or not having a child to "make" someone truly happy..isn't good.

FF
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« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2019, 09:42:29 PM »

Key: Awarness to someone with BPD does not go hand in hand with real time.  My BPH exhibited such things when I came home from class and he jumped down my throat. 

He was getting really mad because our living space was being trashy.  I get the very distinct impression he wants it clean like nobody is living here.  Apparently he had been stewing about how he was supporting me with my dreams of school and other life major choices that everyone else is having to accommodate and I have made completely on my own that affects everyone for the next 30 years.  I looked at him with a puzzled look and was like, what life changing choices are you talking about? I thought something I had done recently offended him.  He was vague and said he didn't want to get into, which is even more frustrating since it could be any number of things and probably somethinf we had already fought over numerous times.

Back to the key.  He made it very clear that he was sick of everyone's attitude, that no matter how nice he was, people were still being jerks, how he was going to stop taking his medicine so everyone could see how much attitude he can have.  I didn't react or say a word about it. 

I talked with him and my counselor about how I have depressive feelings.  My H was sympathetic for maybe a could days.  It's obvious that he doesn't have the capacity for long term recovery.  It's obvious that he has no real concept of long some people need to get better which is back to the basic narcissistic mannerism that he obviously has.

I am so sick of him and his emotional rollercoaster.  I have a little less than a month left a school and I am trying hard to find a full time job.  When I think of why I am with him, there is no love towards him.  I am with him because I currently have to be stuck with him.
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« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2019, 03:33:50 AM »

Update:  after telling me how school is just one big fat excuse to avoid doing stuff with the family, how just because I am emotionless doesn't mean anyone else is, how I won't tell him what is bothering me and I won't ask him what is bothering him, I just won't talk, how he was so sick of it, how he was so sick of telling me to be "more", he quietly gathered up him things and went to sleep in the car.  I watched him leave.. mumbled to myself, don't let the door hit you where the good Lord split you and bye bye.  Rolled over and went to sleep.  Hour and a half later, woke up and messaged him.. it is silly to sleep out there, why don't you come to bed.  No response.  Shrugged and fell back asleep.  Currently awake because those @ssholes didn't walk the dog and he cr@pped everywhere and it stunk.
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« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2019, 06:53:09 AM »


   

When you get to a place where you can think about this more, I would hope you would reflect on why you messaged him to come back in?

How do these things usually play out?  How long until he gets back to "neutral"?  What do you do in the meantime?

FF
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« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2019, 09:11:14 AM »

Not really sure why I did message him.  It made sense at the time,  now it really doesn't.  Maybe trying to avoid too big of a fight. *shrug*

Not sure how long this will take.  I am not doing my normal trying to make it "righy.  I have no incentive too.  Told my counselor I don't kmow if I want to work on this anymore.  It has become insane trying to work on this.
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« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2019, 09:29:34 AM »

  Told my counselor I don't kmow if I want to work on this anymore.  It has become insane trying to work on this.

Frankee,

I actually think this is very healthy for you.  I also suspect I may not be taking it in the context that you mean it.

Let's clarify.

What is "working on this" (focus on "this").  I suspect "this" is something outside your control that you really shouldn't be working on, because it's actually someone else's to "own" or "work on".

I'm hopefully that in talks with your counselor you can get to a place of working on "YOU"..putting energy into "YOU" and let "this"...take care of itself.

Perhaps come back to "this" in a few months and take a hard look of what parts you can "can" or "should" work on in "this".

Thoughts?

FF


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« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2019, 10:47:03 AM »

Told my counselor I don't kmow if I want to work on this anymore.  It has become insane trying to work on this.

In 1981 Narcotics Anonymous used an insanity metaphor as a way of helping its members understand their addiction.

'Insanity is repeating the same mistakes, expecting different results.'
Of course this is not a real clinical definition of insanity, and I am not for one minute suggesting you are insane, but in terms of co-dependency and addiction by way of a relationship with a pwBPD this definition makes a lot of sense to me.

I understand that this is not what you posted, but it stood out for me.


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« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2019, 10:01:43 AM »

Pretty much.  Doing the same BS over and over and expecting different results.

I am calling the doctors tomorrow.  I think that whatever I have, depression, anxiety is getting worse.  Today I didn't get out of bed until 9:30.  I kept thinking, I need to get up and do this or that.  I need to get up because It's getting late and I have to clean.  There is an explosion of chips on my kids floor, plate and cup from my Bph's snack last night, pile of blankets covered in pee to be washed.  All of this and I just don't care. 

I got into a fight with my H and screamed  at him I didn't love him, I wanted him to leave, told him him the sight of his face is pi$$ing me off.  He threatened to take the kids to his mom's and part of me wanted him too.  Friday I was home with the kids and it was a horrible day.  A few times I thought of calling me H and telling him I really did want him to take the kids and leave.

I don't feel well and what I normally do to feel better, isn't working at all.
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« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2019, 10:22:02 AM »

Pretty much.  Doing the same BS over and over and expecting different results.

I am calling the doctors tomorrow.  I think that whatever I have, depression, anxiety is getting worse.  Today I didn't get out of bed until 9:30.  I kept thinking, I need to get up and do this or that.  I need to get up because It's getting late and I have to clean.  There is an explosion of chips on my kids floor, plate and cup from my Bph's snack last night, pile of blankets covered in pee to be washed.  All of this and I just don't care. 

I got into a fight with my H and screamed  at him I didn't love him, I wanted him to leave, told him him the sight of his face is pi$$ing me off.  He threatened to take the kids to his mom's and part of me wanted him too.  Friday I was home with the kids and it was a horrible day.  A few times I thought of calling me H and telling him I really did want him to take the kids and leave.

I don't feel well and what I normally do to feel better, isn't working at all.
Dear Frankie,
I’m so sorry you are going through a lot, I want to talk to you about few things I have gathered from your post. It seems that even us, non BPDs have a mental health issues that aren’t identical, but complimentary to BPD traits. When our BPDs dysregulate it leaves a little time and resources to process and deal with our own issues. We are in a survival mode most of the time. When things seem to calm down slightly, all the unprocessed trauma is coming to a surface. As a nursing student I’m sure you would appreciate the analogy-  keloid scar tissue is formed in the place of your early emotional trauma  that has been exacerbated by your relationships with BPDh. When we aren’t we’ll, we have little resources to give to our children and regular day to day chores and duties, hence you wanting your husband to take the kids. I encourage you to see your family doctor to see if you can be diagnosed and treated through your student insurance/work benefits. If you aren’t well, you can not do right by your children. I say it because I lived it. When I loose my touch with reality I seek help from a doctor. Short term anxiety medication had helped for a few days to calm down. Not making things worse had helped to regulate my own emotions. Frankie, there will be no one who can come and rescue you from this situation other then you. Your kids need you, for the sake of their well being try to figure “this” out
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« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2019, 10:43:48 AM »

There is an explosion of chips on my kids floor, plate and cup from my Bph's snack last night, pile of blankets covered in pee to be washed.  All of this and I just don't care. 

I say this as a fellow homemaker...

How is it that other people toss chips in the floor...your floor...and you clean them up?

We all draw the "line" at different places, yet I've found that when I hold the people responsible for making a mess...responsible for cleaning up the mess, I have much less resentment in my life.

I still vaccum, do laundry, run dishwasher, wipe things down and all that.  For me, there is a difference between "normal" dirt and stuff that accumulates due to people living their lives and people being irresponsible and leaving a disaster for someone else.

   

Best,

FF
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