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Author Topic: Guidance please Setting boundaries without guilt  (Read 834 times)
yepitsme
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« on: April 16, 2019, 11:21:56 AM »

New to this support family.  Thanks for being here. 

Why I'm here:  My mother exhibits BPD, never been diagnosed.  Now has Parkinson's and the "FOG" (fear, obligation, guilt) is overwhelming. 

Nothing I do (along with my sisters) is enough.  She swings from being incredibly grateful to manipulation/anger/guilt within 1 visit. 

I blew up at her, which is something I've never done.  It's been a month.  I'm afraid to visit her, because I can't set appropriate boundaries.  I'm so easily manipulated by her and feel mean if I leave and she still needs something.  But I have a life - I'm married, 2 kids, work full-time, 2 dogs. 

I feel like she wants me to give up my life to save hers.

Any guidance, feedback, stories on setting boundaries welcome!
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« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2019, 01:40:59 PM »

hi yepitsme and Welcome

im sorry to hear about your mothers turn for the worse with parkinsons. its hard to take care of our parents as they get older.

what in particular does she want from you? time? attention?

what was the blowup over?
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Harri
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« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2019, 02:20:06 PM »

Hi and welcome to the board!  I am glad you are reaching out to us.

Can you tell us a bit more about the attempts you have made with setting boundaries?  Often times when we start to set boundaries, there can be some push back.  It is called an extinction burst and while frustrating, sticking to the boundary is important.
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CautiousHopeful

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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2019, 05:41:22 AM »

Hi yesitsme  Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

My father had Parkinson's but he was my non-BPD parent, so if anything we had the reverse of neediness, where he completely wanted to do everything himself without help. But eventually he, and my mother caring for him, needed some outside help.

From things we put in place for dad, there's a few things I can think of that may help in your situation, in terms of taking some pressure off you. I don't know what stage your mother is at with her Parkinson's, but after a certain point my parents had meals delivered by a delivery service. Depending where you live, there may be companies or services that will deliver meals. Your mother possibly won't like this, but if one of the tasks you are doing is preparing meals and it is getting too much, this may be an option and a boundary you can enforce on the basis of needing to care for your own family. It could just be a couple of meals a week to start with, and more later if it works out.

Again, depending where you are, there may be help available for house cleaning. My parents had someone come once a fortnight. My mother developed cancer so it was increasingly difficult for her to care for him, the house and everything. If you are regularly cleaning at your mother's place, this may possibly help.

There may be a carer support service where you live as well. These can sometimes be a good resource, just giving you an idea about what options are available to you if you are increasingly in a care role.

As far as FOG goes, I've recently learned about the extinction bursts that Harri mentions, where initially the other person will push back against boundaries you try to establish, especially if they are new boundaries and change the way boundary dynamics may have operated previously. However, it's like their energy around this push back sooner or later exhausts itself, and they start to adjust to the new boundary. I recently went through this with a couple of friendships and I did get the initial push back, but it feels so much better that I've done it, and I feel no FOG whatsoever.

However, I also realise it is more challenging doing this with first degree relatives than it is with friends, especially a parent living with an illness or medical condition. Do you think you can explain to her how full on it is, caring for your family, working full-time etc, and explain how it is impacting you? Sometimes it is finding the right balance between being firm and kind at the same time,
 being both clear and calm, which can be challenging, especially if they are emotionally reactive. But I'm generally learning that maintaining a kind of adult composure, whatever their behaviour is presenting as, does seem to help, and it can make them lift their game a bit. It sounds that if your mother is manipulative and she thinks she can keep doing it she will, so it might be a case of being firmly assertive but also ensuring her that you care and want to help her within reason in terms of what is possible for you with your family, work, and dogs.

I imagine there may be some fear in the mix for her as well. She is likely worried about the future in terms of how she is going to go with the Parkinson's, and may be feeling extra vulnerable and therefore might be extra emotionally reactive. I know this is so hard being there for them without being overburdened. When both my parents were unwell, both my health and the rest of my life suffered, so I would definitely say remember to take care of your self and your own needs, and ask for other outside help from various sources if necessary. I tried to do so much on my own (not great at asking for help myself) and it did take its toll. I was glad I could help, but I pushed myself too hard and should have sought more outside help sooner and delegated more tasks to other family members.

Perhaps you and your sisters could have a conference meeting to work out a care plan as to how to move forward into the future? Ideally you would want to do this with your mother as well, but if her behaviours are particularly challenging, you might want to initially meet just with your sisters to figure out how best to proceed, in terms of what you can each offer and what things might help her, including outside forms of help if necessary. You could put a range of options on the table for her in terms of a care plan, and provide her with some ideas and choices, or perhaps work out a roster with your sisters for when you can help.

I don't know if any of that helps, but I know how challenging that situation is and I send you lots of moral support   As once removed and Harri suggested, if you want to provide some specific examples of the kinds of things she is wanting from you, or specific scenarios that have happened with her, there may be some of us here who can provide some ideas on handling those situations.

Take care 
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Notwendy
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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2019, 06:43:30 AM »

I think the guilt is on our part- it is something we need to learn to accept as part of who we are. My BPD mother is not an empathetic person, but I am, and so when I set boundaries- I'm the one who feels the discomfort. It's because- I don't want to have to act like this with my mother. But that's because of my own ideas about how I want to relate to a mother. However, I don't think my mother relates to the relationship of mother-daughter in the same way.

Like you, I have seen my mother behave in such cold hearted ways, I don't have much sense that she has "motherly" feelings towards me and I don't feel the same way as people I know who have a loving mother. I think I have a bit of PTSD from her. I don't feel comfortable around her or even talking to her. I don't hate her, in fact, I feel sorry for her. I wish things were different, but they aren't. My mother's relationship to me is need based- her needs. If I meet her needs, she's happy. Sometimes she paints me black when I don't. She even disowned me at one point.

However, she realized that she made a calculated error when she did that. I am the mother of her grandchildren. She wants the "benefits" of being perceived as a loving grandmother and likes the attention- so she's realized that she needs to be in contact with me. She's now syrupy sweet to me but I know it's an act.

Still, when mother calls, I struggle between my own ethics of how to treat a parent with the reality- her behavior is self seeking. She wants to hear all about the grandkids so she can talk to her friends about them. That's pretty normal for a grandparent. If all her friends are talking about their grandkids, it's natural she'd want to say something too. So I struggle with not being rude and calling her back, knowing she's just using me.

If she could, she'd have me waiting on her 24/7.  I was mainly "useful" to her growing up as someone who could do household chores and run errands for her. This is still the nature of our visits, she tells me what to do and I would do them for her. There isn't affection or warmth on her part towards me. She'll take as much as I am willing to give.

My way of reconciling this is that, it would be worse for me to not have boundaries than to struggle with guilt feelings. It's not a position I want to be in. I imagine a loving mother would care enough about her child to not use her, but this isn't my mother. I have a mother who doesn't respect boundaries and so, I have to respect mine. We are not NC, but I need to have limits on my privacy and time that is shared with her.

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« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2019, 01:56:41 PM »

Hi Notwendy,
Your statement about not having a typical 'motherly' relationship with your mother certainly resonates. I struggle with that same feeling it is as if some integral element is missing and I can't quite put my finger on what it is. I think that I have determined that it is because my mother lives only for herself, her children she would live vicariously through, she has only superficial relationships with others (typically it is only friends of her children), she never fully listens to what we (her children say/feel/have experienced) she judges our input and then moves on. She is also a compliment hoarder...seriously...it's weird. There is not ONE conversation I have with her where she doesn't mention how many people have complimented her on her looks, how she doesn't look her age etc. etc. etc. Then she will ask me "Can you believe that, I hate it when people shine me on like that! I mean what do you think? How old do you think I look or how attractive am I? I find this beyond 'off-putting' and it reeks of superficiality. Isn't this more narcissistic than borderline, maybe both? I can't have a real relationship with her because she is so shallow and as much as I believe that to be true, I still hate to say it.
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Harri
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« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2019, 05:24:55 PM »

Hows it going yepitsme?

Done, what you describe with the compliments about appearance speaks to me of insecurity.  I can't say if it is BPD or NPD or maybe something else though.   My mother was quite attractive and would say similar things.  It was sad.

Excerpt
I can't have a real relationship with her because she is so shallow and as much as I believe that to be true, I still hate to say it.
Not having a more healthy/typical relationship with our parents is difficult and can hurt a lot.  I am sorry you are experiencing this.  Are there times when you can connect?
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Done211

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« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2019, 05:37:23 PM »

Hi Harri,
Yes; there are times when I can connect with her. That is what makes the 'other' times so much harder.
I appreciate the support, input and suggestions...I have waited too long to join something like this!
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