Was it that bad?

[Depression = 72% of members]

As I've been posting here the memories of my childhood have been resurfacing fast and furious.  I struggle with knowing what was 'nornal'  my therapist tells me it was abuse but part of me thinks I am exaggerating.  I witnessed violence and was sometimes slapped, punched and kicked.  Often threatened with beating and sworn at...But times were different (I was a kid in the 70s and 80s) wasn't this the norm?

[Zabava]

As I've been posting here the memories of my childhood have been resurfacing fast and furious.  I struggle with knowing what was 'nornal'  my therapist tells me it was abuse but part of me thinks I am exaggerating.  I witnessed violence and was sometimes slapped, punched and kicked.  Often threatened with beating and sworn at...But times were different (I was a kid in the 70s and 80s) wasn't this the norm?

[Harri]

Yes, it was that bad.   

part of me thinks I am exaggerating.

Were you allowed to have feelings without your parent(s) minimizing or shaming you for them?  Are you hearing the inner critic almost all of us have in our heads, making a running commentary on every word, thought, feeling action we have or take?

Check out pete walker at pete-walker.com   He writes about complex PTSD and a lot of us get a great deal of help from his writing on his website and from his books.  He has an article on the inner critic.

I also have the urge to link you to an article we have here on untwisting our thoughts.  I am not saying you are twisted but sometimes our thoughts get twisted and minimization can be a part of that.  so can taking responsibility for stuff that is not ours.

Check it out:  Ten Forms of Twisted Thinking - Burns MD

[Turkish]

Punching and kicking are battery,  crimes. Point blank.

I don't know about in the 80s, but exposing children to domestic abuse is also a crime in most cases,  and reportable by a mandatory reporter. 

You were the victim of criminal acts.  Period. 

[Zabava]

Thanks Turkish and Harri,

Yes Harri, my feelings were definitely invalidated.  The violence in our house was a secret, even though I believe the extended family must have known.  I remember feeling crazy because my parents would have these horrible screaming violent fights at night and then the next morning it was as if it never happened. 

My therapist recently asked me why the Children's Aid was never involved and it kind of shocked me.   I always think of child abuse as being extreme in its violence.  I still don't have clear memories of exactly what happened.  I do remember my mother threatening to "beat the living tar" out of us and actually believing she would kill us.  I wonder if the depth of my fear is just a reflection of a child's imagination or a result of daily emotional abuse. 

[Harri]

I wonder if the depth of my fear is just a reflection of a child's imagination or a result of daily emotional abuse.

Good question.  I think the answer could be that it is both. 

The abuse happened daily when you were a child, with a childs thoughts, feelings and perceptions.   None of that changes the facts of what happened though.   To have a caretaker/mother threaten you like that is a huge threat and it is abuse.  Your fear of her was not an exaggeration of your child's mind, it was real to her. 

So many times we look back with our adult mind and judge what happened to us as a child, how we responded, what choices we made, what else we could have done, how significant something was... it is not fair and it is not healthy to do that.  You were abused.

What is healthy to do now is recognize and honor what your child self did to survive the threats to you life and safety and recognize that as an adult your mom no longer has the same hold on you.  She has no real power over you anymore. 

Keep working on you.  You are doing a great job of digging deep and asking questions.

[Zabava]

Harri,

Thanks for the Pete Walker link.  I read about emotional flashbacks and the 4fs.  I definitely became a Fawn and tried desperately to keep my mum happy.  Inevitably though , I would have ideas and feelings that threatened her and that has shaped my life.   I really relate to what Pete Walker says about how overwhelming strong emotions can be.  I realize that I have behaved in a lot of BPD ways in the past and then shut it down by numbing out emotionally.

You asked me if my mum shamed for my feelings and she certainly did.  I was constantly taking the pulse of the house so I wouldn"t misstep.  She would get angry if my sister and I were too happy when she was in a bad mood.  If I was too sad she was offended.  I learned early on to mirror her feelings or maintain calm neutrality. 

When I became a teenager and tried to become my own person my emotions were overwhelming.  I really was BPD for a while and was very self destructive.  It scared me so much I just shut it all down, emotions, dreams, identity.  My current journey I think began with emotional flashbacks to that tumultuous time of my life.  I attended my cousin's 50th and saw some people I hadnt seen since I was 17.  It started an unravelling that forced me to face my childhood.  It helps to know that there is a reason I felt so desperate and raw after that.  I really thought I was insane at the time. 

[Harri]

I realize that I have behaved in a lot of BPD ways in the past and then shut it down by numbing out emotionally.

A lot of us here have BPD traits and behaviors.  How could we not?  Remember too that a lot of PTSD behaviors overlap with BPD behaviors as well.  Even so. what is in a label?  All it does is provide us with a framework and a sort of roadmap to getting healthier. 

I had a mentor of sorts about 15 years or so ago and she told me something that I latched onto for dear life.  She said that it would be more abnormal for us to *not* have problems with behaviors and coping skills after all of the abuse we experienced.

We are not crazy.  We were not crazy.  Our surroundings were and so were the circumstances we were in, but we are not and were not crazy.  Having difficulties is actually a normal reaction given all of that.  How would you learn how to manage emotions and conflict if it was never demonstrated PLUS you had to shut down to survive?  think about it.  We did not stand a chance in certain areas and the fact that we survived says a lot about us. 

I also want to remind you to think of what happened to you with your mom happening to your own child.  What would you do and say?

[Zabava]

One of my reality checks in therapy recently was to imagine my youngest child (12) witnessing what I saw at that age.  I was telling my T.  about my mother punching my dad in the head while he was driving on a busy highway and screaming obscenities at him.  I screamed at them to stop because I was scared we would get in accident.  My dad pulled over and my mum told me to stop the effing dramatics.

Why was she doing this?  Because we had just visited my 15 year old sister at her friends house and my  mum thought my dad was flirting with the friends mum.  Why was my sister living at her friends house?  Because she attempted suicide and didn't want to come home.  I was't allowed to visit my sister in hospital because...?My mother expressed no  concern for her and called an effing bitch for "doing this to her"

I can't imagine putting my children through that.

[Zabava]

So sorry to unload and overshare.  Again part of my brain feels like this was bad and part of me feeks like an ungrateful oversensitive whiner. 

[Harri]

That voice that is calling you an oversensitive whiner is your inner critic.     Tell it to shut up.     

Here is another article from pete Walker this time on shrinking the inner critic.  Shrinking the Inner Critic in Complex PTSD  Read it over and over.  You may need to re-read this and the first article on the inner critic I linked to you over and over again.   Part of what I struggled with when I first started my recovery work was a haziness (I hesitate to use the word FOG here but maybe that is right) in my mind.  I would forget and have to almost re-learn things I had learned before... over and over again.  There was a war going on in my mind and my heart and it was confusing and exhausting.  Keep at it.   

Would you say the inner critic is what prompted your last post where you apologized?   

[Zabava]

Yes my inner critic is very strong.  Pete Walker's description of the inner critic and all the attendent fear makes sense.  I have been reading about emotional abuse and one thing that rings true for me is terrorizing.  The physical abuse did happen and it was bad but the emotional abuse lives in my brain.  One of the things my mum used to say when she was angry was "get out of my sight, it makes me sick to look at you."

It felt devastating.  As an adult it just seems mean but as a kid it felt horrible.  Also being sworn at and called a bitch and an effing ingrate and a tart  (old fashioned I know)  were very wounding.  Why does name calling have such an impact?  The swearing always felt like violence.

[Harri]

Name calling is horribly damaging.   I leaves a child with a negative message about who they are and it gets incorporated into how a child defines herself.

Coming from a parent, it is even worse because we look to our parents to be a healthy mirror for us, to show us who we are and that we are lovable and have value and are worthy.  When that mirror lies to us, like your mom did to you, we do not recognize the lie, the cruelty or the damage it can cause and we internalize it.

I am sorry your mom called you those names and I am so very sorry she could not see you as you were.

What thoughts come to your mind when you remember these things?

[Turkish]

I wish I'd quoted the whole article before it was behind a payroll (when it used to be nymag), but this might be the whole article,  I don't remember.  Verbal and emotional abuse cuts to the core of who we are as people,  even more so for a child navigating how to define his or her identity as a person.  A parent or caregiver is the primary adult who mirrors a child as an individual person. Children draw from that relationship first,  their core identities. 

https://www.thecut.com/2014/10/emotional-abuse-can-be-as-damaging-as-sex-abuse.html

Some depressing news for your afternoon: Kids who are emotionally abused suffer the same mental-health consequences as those who are physically or sexually abused — and in some cases, psychologically abused kids may actually fare worse. That’s the takeaway of a sobering new report from the American Psychological Association that was just published in the journal Psychological Trauma: Theory, Research, Practice, and Policy.

“Psychological abuse” covers a wide variety of mistreatment, including parents bullying kids, exerting excess control over them, or insulting or threatening them; at the other end of the spectrum, isolating or ignoring kids is also considered to be psychological abuse.

Researchers used the National Child Traumatic Stress Network Core Data Set to examine the mental-health histories of 5,616 children who’d suffered some form of abuse. Here’s what they found, according to the press release:


Children who had been psychologically abused suffered from anxiety, depression, low self-esteem, symptoms of post-traumatic stress and suicidality at the same rate and, in some cases, at a greater rate than children who were physically or sexually abused. Among the three types of abuse, psychological maltreatment was most strongly associated with depression, general anxiety disorder, social anxiety disorder, attachment problems and substance abuse.

While physical abuse often brings telltale markers, psychological abuse is often harder to detect. “Also, psychological abuse isn’t considered a serious social taboo like physical and sexual child abuse,” said lead study author Joseph Spinazzola, a clinician at the Trauma Center at Justice Resource Institute in Brookline, Massachusetts. But the invisible toll of emotional torment is damaging, too, and Spinazzola and the APA make the case that it’s time we paid them more     

     

[Zabava]

It was that bad.   It is finally sinking in and  I'm having a hard time absorbing the time lost to depression and self hatred.  It is very upsetting to think about how my life could have been.  I guess this is grieving.  It feels self indulgent and melodramatic, but perhaps that is  the inner critic talking.  Either way it hurts and I fear being swallowed up by it.

[Harri]

How are you doing?

I agree that you are probably feeling grief.  It is a tough realization when thinking about the damage, the time lost, etc.  I still feel it sometimes.  I am 53 and missed out on so much.   On top of that we have the damage to heal and that is a lot of really hard work as you are seeing.

I don't have any words of wisdom really.  I just know for me I had to find a balance between allowing myself to grieve and making sure I did not allow myself to get too bogged down in it.  I tend to be an optimist but even with that it was/is a challenge.  I found self talk was the best.  Working on acceptance of what is and knowing that as hard as it is to work on this stuff, it will get better.

What can you use as an anchor for yourself?

[Zabava]

Harri,

You asked what I use to anchor myself.  I don't know.  My husband is a good person but I can't talk to him about intense feelings and he has only the vaguest understanding of my childhood experiences.  I don't have any friends that I feel I can talk to about this.  I feel ashamed.  I have my therapist and this board.

One thing that has helped alot was Pete Walker's description of the inner critic.  I try to tell it to shut up   Also, I keep telling myself that despite everything, I survived and I have raised three great kids.  And for the most part I raised them without acting like my mother.  Accepting that I was abused has been a profound shift in my thinking and it has been liberating and at the same time deeply painful.

I just worry of the delusions I experienced while depressed.  Psychosis is very scary and I never want to go through it again.  So I am trying to heal slowly and in tiny steps  Routine and sleep are very important.  I feel like a crazy person trying to act normal a lot of the time, but each day is a little better.

[Harri]

I have my therapist and this board.

   
Yes!  We can help you and over time you will build your own inner resources.

I feel ashamed.

What's going on here?  Can you find the source of the shame?

I just worry of the delusions I experienced while depressed.  Psychosis is very scary and I never want to go through it again.

Have you discussed your fear with your T?  I do not know enough about delusions to know how likely it is they will come back. 

So I am trying to heal slowly and in tiny steps  Routine and sleep are very important.  I feel like a crazy person trying to act normal a lot of the time, but each day is a little better.

Good.  These things are so vital. 

As for feeling like a crazy person, remember, feelings do not equal facts!    If feeling crazy made a person crazy.. well, then the the whole world is full of crazy folks.  I am not trying to invalidate you here or make light of things.  I get it. 

but each day is a little better

 

[Zabava]

The source of the shame is my deeply rooted belief that I am unworthy of love or compassion.  As a child I felt shame for continually angering, disappointing and embarrasing my mother. 

She told me she felt sorry for me that I was the ugly duckling of the family and the crazy one.  I guess I have carried this with me and every mental health crisis I have just confirms her judgement. 

[Turkish]

Do you feel that logically,  to start, that those messages aren't true?

To say it another way,  if you witnessed another mother saying such things to her child, how would you feel about that?

[Zabava]

I think I have been shifting my thinking and starting to remember clearly what hapened to me. In my best moments I feel relief to know my crazy is not my fault.  I have felt some compassion for my younger self.

Then the shame kicks in.  I feel like a weak person.  I feel like I'm exagerrating.  I feel disloyal for telling family secrets.  I have dreams where I rage at my mother and I wake up feeling guilty. I want out of my head. 

[Turkish]

If someones desires you to keep a secret (because they are doing something they shouldn't be doing), implicitly or explicitly,  is that their to their shame or yours?

[Harri]

Turkish asked some good questions here Z.  How would you feel if you saw a mom saying that to a child?  Or would you say those things to your own kids?  I you witnessed someone talking to a child like that what would you say to the kid?  Take your answer and say it to Little Z.  Let little z know you think she is a great kid and that you love her and will protect her.     What else can you say to her?

As a child I felt shame for continually angering, disappointing and embarrasing my mother.

You were trained to feel that way Z.  Children are not emotional regulators for their parent nor are they supposed to act as their anger management teacher.  It is supposed to be the other way around right?  A mother/parent teaches the child how to cope and deal with their emotions.  Your mom had BPD.  BPD is a disorder of emotional regulation.  She could not control her emotions and projected them onto you.  It was her way of defending herself from stuff she could not handle.  Not intentional lies but lies all the same.

She told me she felt sorry for me that I was the ugly duckling of the family and the crazy one.

Projections.  Have we talked about that before? 

I guess I have carried this with me and every mental health crisis I have just confirms her judgement.

You are carrying this with you and it is a heavy burden.  i carried my own as well.  You can put it down any time you choose and you can fight that inner critic and you can fight the fear of saying no to the lies and take a chance and reach for new beliefs about yourself.  hell, you are already doing that! 

Then the shame kicks in.  I feel like a weak person.  I feel like I'm exagerrating.  I feel disloyal for telling family secrets.  I have dreams where I rage at my mother and I wake up feeling guilty. I want out of my head.

You are in a battle with the inner critic and all the false beliefs you have about yourself.  It is okay to take a break but do not give up the fight.  Do not abandon yourself and l;et your moms lies take over.

Keep shining the light on these false beliefs and keep bringing your shame into the light.  Light will shrink it to a more manageable size and then you can just smash it all to pieces.  That shame does not belong to you.  It belongs to your mother. 

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Zabava, 

I just wanted to pop in and encourage you to keep going forward. I'd tell you to take your time, but sometimes when the memories are loosened, well, there's no stopping them. Let yourself rest though, as much as you can. You are processing a whole lot, and it is really important to do some brain relaxing things in between. I recommend such things as a funny movie, some kind of exercise, music...what do you find enjoyable? Those are the things that will allow you to have energy to keep going forward. I'm interested in hearing your ideas!

FYI, it took me some time to wrap my head around the fact that I was abused at all. I figured I deserved it. After all, that's what I was told. I was a few months in processing what abuse even was. In fact I asked a lot of my close friends and my T how they would define it. Then I slowly began to allow myself to accept the truth. Part of that struggle was that if I accepted that I was abused, then it was my abuser who was at fault, not me. It was easier to believe that I was bad and the problem than that someone would willingly do those things to me.

 
Wools

[Turkish]

FYI, it took me some time to wrap my head around the fact that I was abused at all. I figured I deserved it

No one deserves to be abused, even if they deserved discipline.  Discipline isn't and shouldn't be abuse.