Trust and Therapy?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello All,

Like I imagine for many of you, growing up with a parent with BPD traits, and the other parent with unpredictable anger as well, has been confusing and made it difficult for me to know who I can trust and not trust.

Back when I was 30 I went to therapy for the first time. The therapist told me to think of her as a kind of mother. This felt a bit weird but I tried to follow it. She said to me, 'trust me, not your mother'. I saw her intermittently over three years. She was trying to get me to separate from my mother as an independent person, which indeed I needed to do. I did make significant progress, but at the same time I would leave some sessions feeling quite unsettled. The therapist also sometimes seemed to take things I said personally, much like my mother, and I would be trying to figure out why she was offended. For example, on one occasion she called to reschedule an appointment because of something she was doing for her daughter, and ended by saying, 'at least she appreciates it'. It was like she was saying I didn't appreciate her efforts as a therapist. I was trying to recall everything from the last session to figure out what I had said that may have offended her. She also told me a lot about her family members during therapy, and I felt like I shouldn't be privy to that information.

She went on leave for a couple of years and contacted me when she was back to say she was available if I wanted to see her. I was struggling with some boundary issues in my life and decided I would try to work through these. However, this ended up not going well with the therapist. She was increasingly telling me about her personal issues with boundaries and kind of collapsing in on herself. She seemed vulnerable and basically said she is not good at boundaries. I was confused as to how to respond. She had become a bit like an alternate mother figure to me in that I'd thought she was someone I could trust and was different to my own mother, and she had encouraged me to relate to her that way. I'd been getting into photography and at the end of a session I gave her a CD with images I'd taken on it, as a way of trying to cheer her up but also let her know I was doing well and engaging in creative things that were helping me. I realise now this was not the right thing to do, and I was being sucked into her emotional dynamic and also returning to the caretaker dynamic I had with my own mother. When I gave the CD to her she said, 'oh that's my problem, I'm not creative.' I thought that's not a usual thing for a therapist to say, and I was trying to say something like, 'I'm sure you are creative'.

I saw her again about 6 weeks later and she was angry as hell. She had previously told me she wore colours based on what she was feeling. Well this time she was all in black and just glared at me, and bit my head off in response to anything I said in the session. She was volatile and severe in her manner, and clearly was punishing me and blaming me for her bad feelings. I left totally shocked and confused. I tried going to the gym to feel better. It usually helped me but this time it didn't. The same with meditation. I then severely dissociated, though I didn't know what dissociation was at the time. I left my body and had no bearings like I was floating in outer space. I no longer had a sense of an 'I' or 'me' as it was really like I no longer existed. The person I had thought of as a safe person relative to my mother turned out to act just like her and repeated my childhood trauma. I called her a couple of days later to try and explain I was out of my body, and she just said, 'see this is what happens to you when you try to rescue people'.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, my sense of trust was obliterated. A few years later she came in to my workplace several times. I was in a customer service role, and when she approached me I almost had a panic attack. She continued on several occasions to try to talk to me while I was at work, sometimes getting between me and a customer, and I would have to advise her that I was helping someone and she would have to wait. She would ask me things like 'what's the goss?', wanting me to tell her about my personal life. I felt very uncomfortable and engaged as little as possible.

The reason I am telling this is that I am trying to work out whether I go through more therapy, but have huge trust issues. I am now a student and can get six sessions a year at my university, which I did last year, and have had four more sessions with the same counsellor this year. It took quite a lot for me to trust going into a counselling situation again. She is pretty normal and balanced compared to the earlier therapist and has been helpful, but I only have two sessions left and I'm wanting to make future wise decisions about therapy.

I did recently see another therapist who is a bodyworker but not a psychologist, but her manner slightly reminded me of the first therapist I saw, which made me feel uneasy. I'm trying to discern whether I am projecting fears based on past experience into the situation, or whether the edgy feeling I get in her presence is something to worry about. I don't get this feeling from the one at university.

What I am wondering is, of those of you who have been in therapy, what has helped you find the right therapist for you? Have you had to shop around to find the right person? I put so much emotional effort, time and money into my earlier therapy, that it is scary to invest again in therapy unless I know for sure I am safe.

I have done a huge amount of work on my own. I think the main thing about therapy is that the engagement with another human being helps to accelerate the healing process. I am just very cautious about who I trust now. I'm interested what signs/things others have found that made them know their therapist is a safe person?

[CautiousHopeful]

Hello All,

Like I imagine for many of you, growing up with a parent with BPD traits, and the other parent with unpredictable anger as well, has been confusing and made it difficult for me to know who I can trust and not trust.

Back when I was 30 I went to therapy for the first time. The therapist told me to think of her as a kind of mother. This felt a bit weird but I tried to follow it. She said to me, 'trust me, not your mother'. I saw her intermittently over three years. She was trying to get me to separate from my mother as an independent person, which indeed I needed to do. I did make significant progress, but at the same time I would leave some sessions feeling quite unsettled. The therapist also sometimes seemed to take things I said personally, much like my mother, and I would be trying to figure out why she was offended. For example, on one occasion she called to reschedule an appointment because of something she was doing for her daughter, and ended by saying, 'at least she appreciates it'. It was like she was saying I didn't appreciate her efforts as a therapist. I was trying to recall everything from the last session to figure out what I had said that may have offended her. She also told me a lot about her family members during therapy, and I felt like I shouldn't be privy to that information.

She went on leave for a couple of years and contacted me when she was back to say she was available if I wanted to see her. I was struggling with some boundary issues in my life and decided I would try to work through these. However, this ended up not going well with the therapist. She was increasingly telling me about her personal issues with boundaries and kind of collapsing in on herself. She seemed vulnerable and basically said she is not good at boundaries. I was confused as to how to respond. She had become a bit like an alternate mother figure to me in that I'd thought she was someone I could trust and was different to my own mother, and she had encouraged me to relate to her that way. I'd been getting into photography and at the end of a session I gave her a CD with images I'd taken on it, as a way of trying to cheer her up but also let her know I was doing well and engaging in creative things that were helping me. I realise now this was not the right thing to do, and I was being sucked into her emotional dynamic and also returning to the caretaker dynamic I had with my own mother. When I gave the CD to her she said, 'oh that's my problem, I'm not creative.' I thought that's not a usual thing for a therapist to say, and I was trying to say something like, 'I'm sure you are creative'.

I saw her again about 6 weeks later and she was angry as hell. She had previously told me she wore colours based on what she was feeling. Well this time she was all in black and just glared at me, and bit my head off in response to anything I said in the session. She was volatile and severe in her manner, and clearly was punishing me and blaming me for her bad feelings. I left totally shocked and confused. I tried going to the gym to feel better. It usually helped me but this time it didn't. The same with meditation. I then severely dissociated, though I didn't know what dissociation was at the time. I left my body and had no bearings like I was floating in outer space. I no longer had a sense of an 'I' or 'me' as it was really like I no longer existed. The person I had thought of as a safe person relative to my mother turned out to act just like her and repeated my childhood trauma. I called her a couple of days later to try and explain I was out of my body, and she just said, 'see this is what happens to you when you try to rescue people'.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, my sense of trust was obliterated. A few years later she came in to my workplace several times. I was in a customer service role, and when she approached me I almost had a panic attack. She continued on several occasions to try to talk to me while I was at work, sometimes getting between me and a customer, and I would have to advise her that I was helping someone and she would have to wait. She would ask me things like 'what's the goss?', wanting me to tell her about my personal life. I felt very uncomfortable and engaged as little as possible.

The reason I am telling this is that I am trying to work out whether I go through more therapy, but have huge trust issues. I am now a student and can get six sessions a year at my university, which I did last year, and have had four more sessions with the same counsellor this year. It took quite a lot for me to trust going into a counselling situation again. She is pretty normal and balanced compared to the earlier therapist and has been helpful, but I only have two sessions left and I'm wanting to make future wise decisions about therapy.

I did recently see another therapist who is a bodyworker but not a psychologist, but her manner slightly reminded me of the first therapist I saw, which made me feel uneasy. I'm trying to discern whether I am projecting fears based on past experience into the situation, or whether the edgy feeling I get in her presence is something to worry about. I don't get this feeling from the one at university.

What I am wondering is, of those of you who have been in therapy, what has helped you find the right therapist for you? Have you had to shop around to find the right person? I put so much emotional effort, time and money into my earlier therapy, that it is scary to invest again in therapy unless I know for sure I am safe.

I have done a huge amount of work on my own. I think the main thing about therapy is that the engagement with another human being helps to accelerate the healing process. I am just very cautious about who I trust now. I'm interested what signs/things others have found that made them know their therapist is a safe person?

[Harri]

Wow.  I am so sorry you had such a negative experience with a counselor.  Her projections and intrusiveness (going to your place of work?)  are extremely inappropriate and unprofessional. 

What I am wondering is, of those of you who have been in therapy, what has helped you find the right therapist for you? Have you had to shop around to find the right person? I put so much emotional effort, time and money into my earlier therapy, that it is scary to invest again in therapy unless I know for sure I am safe.

I have had several T's over the years, having changed them for one reason or another.  A couple were inappropriate and unable to take my history with mother daughter sexual abuse in a non-personal way so they were out.  another sounds like a light version of your first T but it was only in hindsight that I can see it.  The others I had were great though.

It is not uncommon to have to shop around for a T that fits.  I would say you can get a feel for whether things would go well in the first couple of sessions.  Plus you can end the therapeutic relationship at any time. 

Ask yourself how comfortable you felt with them.  Tone of voice, smile, how comfortable they appear to be sitting with you.
For me, a sense of humor is important.
Watching how well they control the session time wise also lets me know how good they are with boundaries.
If I get off track can they help me get back to where I was?  (I tend to ramble)
An ability to remember details, even if they have to read their notes, tells me they care and that was important to me as I am very aware of time passing
How they handle cancellations is important to me (I am disabled so stuff can happen suddenly)

One thing I will say is that you are not the same person you were with your other T so I doubt you will allow the same boundary violations to happen, or if the T messes up, you now have tools that can help you. 

[CautiousHopeful]

Thanks Harri,

Those are all helpful suggestions. The bodywork-based therapist I just saw felt a bit uncomfortable to me. If I am not feeling at ease with the person I think that's probably not a good sign. Her tone of voice didn't feel right and a lot of the time she looked at me for ages with this intense gaze without speaking which felt uncomfortable, and I looked out the window in order to feel safer. She just might not be a good fit for me. I felt like she was not completely at ease, and was looking to me to make her feel more comfortable. As that first therapist I saw seemed to put me in a kind of parent role, I really, really do not want to have that happen again.

And you are right, I am much better positioned now to pick up red flags that might indicate potential problems. I used to be far less aware of boundary violations until they became really intrusive. My gut feeling tells me this recent person is not going to feel right, and that is essential for a good working relationship with a therapist, so I think it is back to the drawing board to find someone who fits.

Yes I agree a sense of humour is important   And I am a rambler too, a lateral thinker who goes off on tangents  Though sometimes I think that lateral thinking helps a bit when problem solving 

Thanks again!

[mutemonkey8]

Hi, CautiousHopeful,
Ugh, I'm so sorry you had that experience. I had what I now characterize as an abusive therapist years ago. He crossed boundaries with abandon...repeatedly told me he loved me...commented on how attractive I was, etc. I found out later he had a bunch of other clients he was doing similar things to (with many of them he encouraged them to think of him as their father. Sounds familiar!) It was a deeply painful, disorienting, traumatic experience. I've had probably a dozen therapists over the years. He was the worst, but I've certainly run across my share of less-than-helpful ones. Unfortunately, it does take some time and experience to nail down exactly what you need in a therapist.

For me, I know I work best with LCSWs (versus MDs or PhDs). I tend to find that the ones who have some background in eating disorders work best with me. (I did have an eating disorder in the past, but now I just find that those clinicians tend to click better with me. I dunno why!) I need someone who can keep up with me, intellectually and emotionally. I used to prefer therapists who were significantly older than me, but now I prefer ones that are closer to my own age. I agree with Harri that a sense of humor is a must! But honestly, it's usually a gut feeling based on their photo and their statement. Guts don't lie!

It can be so, so frustrating (not to mention it seems like a huge waste of time and money) to hop around to new clinicians, but sometimes that's just how it works out. I would say at most it takes me two sessions to know if it's going to work or not (and if I was totally honest with myself, probably only one.) I'm glad you at least have the student rate! I wish you all the best in finding a new therapist.

[once removed]

i dont normally side against a therapist, but yikes!

you know, i grew up with a dad with unpredictable, kinda BPDish anger. i wouldnt say i regularly walked on eggshells, but it could be pretty anxiety inducing when it occurred. today, i think i have a lot of negative associations with anger. it makes me anxious when its coming from others, and i never quite feel like i express mine "properly".

im wondering if you can relate to any of that, and if that might have anything to do with difficulty trusting.

[CautiousHopeful]

Hi mutemonkey8 and once removed.

Thanks for sharing your experiences mutemonkey8. The therapist you mentioned there seems to have crossed boundaries on a number of levels. Thanks for relating to how disorienting it is. I think I just needed to tell that story about what actually happened to me, as I had no one to discuss it with at the time, and I really was quite traumatised as my sense of safety was destroyed. I think the therapist in this case was projecting stuff from within herself into my situation and therefore was highly reactive including misreading my intentions and where I was coming from.

Thanks for mentioning the LCSW option (I had to google the letters to find out it was licensed clinical social worker!). I can look into that as another possibility. Thanks for the support!

And thanks for your thoughts once removed. What you say about negative associations with anger does resonate with me. I grew up with anger outbursts from both my parents so I do have anxiety around that. I also very much relate to what you say about expressing your own anger. After that situation with the therapist I was initially stunned and disoriented, so it took a while to even identify anger in myself which kind emerged out of the confusion and disorientation, by which time I started to think of ways I could have been able to defend myself at the time if I had had my wits about me and not been so confused.

I think what I've gradually learned from the experience is the most important thing is to be able to trust myself, and if grounded in myself I am better positioned to be able to read my own gut feelings about a situation. Many thanks!