Continuing badgering and manipulation from NPD/BPD ex

[chillamom]

I've been around these parts a while, although I haven't posted in some time because I am actively in the process of detaching from a completely untenable relationship with my diagnosed NPD/BPD ex.  I would like to put this in past tense, and I do indeed feel emotionally detached for the most part, but the guilt is the most tenacious thing.  Still.  I left him in December of 2016 after a nearly 8 year long relationship that was characterized by, well, pretty much the same things many of us have experienced (minus,  thankfully, the physical abuse).  Our relationship had been characterized by many attempts on my part to break away, several hospitalizations on his part, and my unrelenting co-dependency which brought me back for several very short recycles over the few years.

Long story short, I have seen him maybe twice in the past year, the last time being several months ago when I gave into his incessant begging and pleading to come see him in his apartment because he had never been on his own before and wanted me to see that.  Mistake.  I won't go into details, but it was a nightmare of coercion and manipulation, which didn't really surprise me.

I have not blocked him but my only contact with him now is his NONSTOP texting, begging me to help him, help him, help him.  He has lost every job he has ever held (the longest he's ever worked was about 3 months) and is about to lose another job now because he's " so depressed" from me not being with him that his depression is "bleeding out" at work and making him ineffective and insubordinate.  He lost his license yesterday (for driving 115 in a 55 mile zone) because he was late to therapy (that he has to go to because of me).  He has no friends, is back living at home at 33, and is begging me for hours a day to come "be a friend" and "get along" and of course, "HELP HIM."  As you can see, I am blamed for EVERYTHING that happens to him, and his life is and always has been a never-ending series of crises.

The guilt daggers are killing me, but I am holding strong to NOT seeing him and have utterly no desire to.  I don't reach out to him, and sometimes I respond to his texts, sometimes not.  I never say anything other than I am sorry for your misfortune, I can't help you, and I wish you well - or some variation thereof.  I feel nothing but pity for him anymore, because his life will ALWAYS be this way, but I still feel the pull of guilt that I should DO something.

I am emotionally unable to go complete NC because I would feel that I cut off his last source of ANY "supportive" contact.  I would be happy to be a friend if he was willing to do that, but every time I have extended an offer of friendship he was unable to stop badgering me for a sexual encounter or "FWB" relationship which I don't want!

I have not dated at all since I left him, have been self-isolating for the most part, and have been diagnosed with Major depressive disorder and C-PTSD from the years spent in an abusive relationship.  I am proud of myself for being able to grow boundaries, but do you think there is any way I can stop him contacting me in a KIND manner?  My T thinks that if I go completely NC he will get desperate and show up at my home, which would be quite awful.  He has had severe psychotic breaks before, and I don't want to risk being around if that happens again.

Any suggestions on how to get this, um, remarkably persistent person to stop contacting me, other than complete NC?  Any magic words?  It's taken me YEARS to get to the point where I truly don't care about him anymore (other than the empathy one naturally feels for a person in distress) but I would love to not have the guilt poking at me every day as well.

Thanks - it took me long enough to get this far in detaching and the guilt is like the last lingering element that I can't seem to cope with.

[Lucky Jim]

Any suggestions on how to get this, um, remarkably persistent person to stop contacting me, other than complete NC?  Any magic words?

Hey Chillamom, In my view, it's not about getting your Ex to stop contacting you ; instead, it's about you determining how much contact you want and then enforcing it with boundaries.  Although you left him in 2016, there is presumably some reason why you are unable to let go.  What do you think that reason is?  Presumably you still get something out of the r/s.  What do you think that is?  These are hard questions, I know, but might help you to find your way forward.

LJ-

[chillamom]

Thanks, LJ, and I hope things are well with you.  Very good question, and I think what I get out of continuing to respond is the opportunity to NOT feel like a horrible person.  I don't like to "abandon" someone in pain, and I think that by completely cutting off contact with him I would feel positively miserable about myself, as I do pride myself on being kind as much as possible.  I would also frankly feel scared, because both my T and my friends think that a total severing of communication would potentially cause him to escalate his behavior.  I guess I'm just going to wait for him to tire of it…although that doesn't seem to be happening.

[drained1996]

And my T would ask...how has that worked out for you?  
What you need to realize is that you are a great person.  You allow him to make you feel otherwise.  You are not responsible for how he feels.  You are responsible for your own well being.  I would love to give you a hug...so here is one in cyber space.  Get out, it's well past time.  You are  not responsible for him, just you...time to see that.  Your blunt friend.
You are a wonderful and loving person.  You need to !earn to love youself!

[Lucky Jim]

I think what I get out of continuing to respond is the opportunity to NOT feel like a horrible person.  I don't like to "abandon" someone in pain

Hello again, chillamom, Thanks for asking about me!  Yup, I'm doing a lot better these days.  As to your situation, I think it's one thing to be in contact from time to time, but another to be responding to constant texting, begging and pleading.  Maybe you could consider setting a limit, i.e., a boundary, on how much you want to hear from him.  Maybe it's once a week?  What are you comfortable with?  I think it's unwise to encourage him to manipulate you, which leads to what you describe as a "nightmare of coercion."  Suggest you set a limit and stick to it.  He'll get the picture.

LJ

[GaGrl]

Chillamom, what comes to me in how you describe the situation now is the phrase "lovingly detach."

[Mutt]

Hi Chillamom,

It sounds like if he’s escalating and you’re maintaining your boundaries - he’s having extinction bursts which is a phenomenon that happens when you don’t give a pwBPD a desired result.

Plus if you have minimal contact that will assuage anxiety on both sides.

I was going to suggest what Gagrl is suggesting - be emotionally detached, boring in your communiques. Mention that you’re not feeling yourself you’re depressed.

That being said a pwBPD wants an emotional caretaker to take care of them - that is a part of the disorder. He’s responsible for taking care of himself even if he has a mental illness. If a pwBPD find themselves at rock bottom that might be a catalyst for him them to seriously get help for himself.

Id feeling guilt too with those types of communications if you put boundaries where someone else was used to having it a different way they’ll lash out - it’s to be expected.

The same goes for extinction bursts if he knows that if he keeps up with a certain behaviour that eventually you’ll give in. He’ll keep pushing to get that desired result but if you’re holding firm and not giving in then his behavior will escalate until it reaches its peek - an extinction burst. The escalation, pushing and trying to get his way stops.

Extinction Burst - The term extinction burst describes the phenomena of behavior temporarily getting worse, not better, when the reinforcement stops. Spontaneous Recovery - Behavior affected by extinction is apt to recur in the future when the trigger is presented again.

BEHAVIORS: Extinction Bursts

[flourdust]

Hi, Chilla. If I recall correctly, haven't there been several cycles of this -- you break up, he harasses you constantly, you search for a way to minimize this, you give in to him ... you break up, rinse and repeat.

What will make this time different from all the others?

[chillamom]

Thanks, drained, and I hope things are going well with you!  I am trying this whole "love yourself" thing to the best of my ability, but that fixer mentality has been deeply installed/instilled by my FOO, so it's a bit of a battle.  Doesn't help that my kids are graduating college in a few weeks, so the proverbial empty nest is looming.  I realize this is making me a bit more emotionally vulnerable, so I'm definitely reinforcing the moat!

[chillamom]

Gagirl, "lovingly detach" is a wonderful concept, but enacting it with this person is difficult.  I have told him repeatedly that I wish him all the best, and I sincerely do, but he is NOT interested in detaching one bit.

[chillamom]

Hi, Mutt, thanks for your comments, and my ex is the Master of the Universe when it comes to extinction bursts - although my understanding is that they wouldn't  go on and on for months.  I have thought that he hit "rock bottom" several times in the past and might seek help, but he remains perpetually unwilling to do so no matter how dire his circumstances get.  As you say, I am not responsible, and I certainly am not going back to being his emotional caretaker under any circumstances. 

[chillamom]

Flourdust, that's a very fair question, and I guess the answer is that for the first time probably ever I feel that I truly don't much care about him.  Of course, I feel compassion for his multiple self-inflicted plights, but I think I finally, fully and completely understand that anything I did in terms of extending "friendship" would just yield the same results as before.  I still feel plenty o' guilt, absolutely, and he is quite skilled at wielding it.  I see what he is doing as basically being emotional blackmail, and I'm just exhausted and done with being manipulated.  So at the risk of sounding like the cold-hearted, horrible person that he has perpetually told me I am, the difference this time is that I just don't give a rat's butt anymore.

[flourdust]

Fthe answer is that for the first time probably ever I feel that I truly don't much care about him.  Of course, I feel compassion for his multiple self-inflicted plights, but I think I finally, fully and completely understand that anything I did in terms of extending "friendship" would just yield the same results as before.  I still feel plenty o' guilt, absolutely, and he is quite skilled at wielding it.  I see what he is doing as basically being emotional blackmail, and I'm just exhausted and done with being manipulated.  So at the risk of sounding like the cold-hearted, horrible person that he has perpetually told me I am, the difference this time is that I just don't give a rat's butt anymore.

Is it that you don't care, or that you feel compassion and plenty of guilt? You can't be both.

[chillamom]

Flourdust, tough one.  I feel compassion, as I would toward any person struggling with this diagnosis and the various problems it has brought about.  I feel guilty that I wasn't able to help him - but not the kind of guilt I used to feel that would drive me back to him to assuage me and placate him.  So I guess that's progress - I don't think he will ever NOT tug at my heartstrings, but I'm far better at saying no than in the past.  I'll take it!

[GaGrl]

Perhaps by "not care" you mean "not compelled to do anything about it."

[chillamom]

Yes, Gagrl, that's far more eloquent and precise.  For years, even when I knew it was enabling, I would be at his beck and call to do whatever needed to be done, often to the point of missing meetings at work, skipping my classes, and losing out on opportunities to spend time with my children. I'm ashamed to admit that I was so enmeshed.  He still hasn't gotten the message however….he's been texting me all night begging me to pick him up from the bus stop (his license has been temporarily suspended) and telling me what an altogether awful woman I am because I won't bend my schedule around to "be a friend" and "help him".  It's utterly ludicrous, and I have not responded.  In the past I would be been miserable from the guilt of saying "no" now I'm like figure it out yourself!

[Lucky Jim]

he's been texting me all night begging me to pick him up from the bus stop (his license has been temporarily suspended) and telling me what an altogether awful woman I am because I won't bend my schedule around to "be a friend" and "help him".  It's utterly ludicrous, and I have not responded.  In the past I would be been miserable from the guilt of saying "no" now I'm like figure it out yourself!

Hey chilla, I would say that your awareness of his efforts to manipulate you makes all the difference.  That you can ignore him without guilt seems like progress to me.  Keep it up!  Right, let him figure it out.

LJ