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Author Topic: 'the brighter you shine the more destructive the Borderline gets'  (Read 376 times)
PretentiousBread

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« on: May 14, 2019, 11:44:11 PM »

In my limited experience, the upwBPD I was with had a strange collection of ex boyfriends, most of whom were slightly punching above their weight, but not much. I noticed a thing where the more obviously physically attractive they were, the shorter the relationship lasted. Perhaps that's typical of a fling, but I think with the pwBPD it's that they don't settle down with someone who they think they can't control, and the more in demand their partner is from the opposite sex, the harder that person would be to control (on paper).

Another aspect of BPD mate selection that I've come across is that 'the brighter you shine the more destructive the Borderline gets' or words to that effect, I've seen this said numerous times from BPD individuals. In other words, the more they're into you, the less able they are to keep a hold of their emotional dysregulation. Makes total sense - if you're a worthless doormat, it'd hardly spike their abandonment anxiety would it?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 12:09:50 AM by once removed » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2019, 07:54:25 PM »

which of these sorts of partners were you? how did it effect your relationship?
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PretentiousBread

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« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2019, 09:10:42 PM »

Starting with the physical side of things, the moment we first laid eyes on each other and held that gaze, even though it was at a large distance, it was apparent we were immediately heavily physically attracted to one another. She later told me I was one of the most attractive men she'd ever met, which at the time I knew was obscene, disingenuous flattery anyway, but can see now even more so that it was part of the idealization hyperbole as a whole.

She said she thought I looked like an 'interesting person', I've a style that's casual-fashionable but not too mainstream. I work out but am more of the modest, lean muscular type rather than big, burly and intimidating type.

We worked together, she was actually my line manager. I put out an advert on our intranet about needing band members (I drum in a band) - she was the sole respondent to the advert and talked all about how she loved the same bands, that she'd sang in a band before etc.etc. Her ex (and father of her two children) was also the muso, festival going type. She showed a lot of interest in my drumming, and often made remarks that hinted at being envious of me. She thought I had an amazing writing style, she loved how 'deep' I was (which of course later became how 'serious and negative' I was during the devalue/discard). She described me as distinguished.

She was, and is, absolutely gorgeous- and that's not a subjective statement - if she wanted, there wouldn't be a single man in the building who wouldn't go with her. Big, stunning, beautiful eyes, full lips, button nose, long dark hair and voluptuous body. However, she had serious self esteem issues (which she later brought up herself), insecurities and shyness that all seemed at odds with her outward appearance, and I picked up on this within moments of meeting her based purely off of her body language. She was a Waif, or at least that's the role she presented to me in the idealization phase.

She mentioned several times through the course of the relationship that she acted differently around me to almost everyone else, that I made her feel shy, nervous, self conscious, excited, whereas with her other 'male friends' she was more 'one of the lads'.

The reason I picked up so quickly on her insecure nature was because I was looking at someone who reminded me of me - I've always had self esteem issues and am known generally for being hard on myself and very self deprecating. I instinctively sensed we were alike, and I believe she did too, but being an INFP male, I've learned to adapt my sensitive nature to appearing more robust in public, and that wasn't immediately apparent to her.

Nonetheless, I believe I was 'selected' by her because I was non-threatening, intriguing to her, attractive, atypical, nice, reserved and therefore a challenge.

I read that pwBPD tend to avoid the 'alphas' because they'd feel powerless to control them, but they also avoid overt doormats, because that's like playing a game on the easiest difficulty and is completely boring to them. They are particularly attracted to people who have worked on and overcome insecurities. I.e. they sense there are insecurities and vulnerability to be exploited in that person unlike the stoic DGAF alphas, but also unlike the doormats who are an open book and therefore no fun. Well I fit the model for overcoming insecurities in that I used to be very overweight with zero female attention, to very attractive with lots of female attention - yet the overweight, low confidence psyche remains in me, and she picked up on that. She once told me "if you could see yourself as I see you, you would feel much better about yourself".

What they're wired for I believe, is to attain the highest 'value' mate possible that still has the potential to be subjugated, so has to be a sensitive type, often creative. In the case of her, this fits 100% with her taste in men - she goes for quirky, attractive, nice guys who have something going for them. She could have the chiseled 6ft2" jock if she wanted, but she runs away from that person. In fact, despite her beauty, she didn't kiss anyone until she was 19. She hid in her bathroom having a panic attack when a friend tried to set her up with guy when she was 20.

Problem was, each time she felt she'd conquered me, her interest level dipped, yet paradoxically she remained insecure about my desire to be with her. She had this thing about texting me "all ok?", did that numerous times if I was delayed in replying for whatever reason. Twice this led to her sabotaging the relationship, literally on the basis of that.

I do like to believe her when she says she'd never had this level of feeling for anyone before, I do genuinely believe that. If I was a lesser person, a late text here or there would not have spiked her abandonment anxiety. She stayed with her ex for 7 years who was apparently a walkover, she stayed with me for 2 months, then 2 weeks on the first recycle. All tallies with "the brighter you shine, the more destructive the borderline gets". It's an inferiority complex, and the devaluation and discard is a defensive mechanism in part against these feelings of inferiority. Remember, behind anger always lies fear.

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« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 09:24:02 PM by PretentiousBread » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2019, 08:01:35 PM »

hey, im a drummer too!

Excerpt
Nonetheless, I believe I was 'selected' by her because I was non-threatening, intriguing to her, attractive, atypical, nice, reserved and therefore a challenge.
...
What they're wired for I believe, is to attain the highest 'value' mate possible that still has the potential to be subjugated
...
Problem was, each time she felt she'd conquered me, her interest level dipped, yet paradoxically she remained insecure about my desire to be with her.

so are you saying that she liked the challenge, but that ultimately your level of attractiveness made her insecure, and that you werent quite enough of a push over for her?

Excerpt
Twice this led to her sabotaging the relationship, literally on the basis of that.

what happened?
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PretentiousBread

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« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2019, 05:17:55 PM »

hey, im a drummer too!

so are you saying that she liked the challenge, but that ultimately your level of attractiveness made her insecure, and that you werent quite enough of a push over for her?

what happened?


Haha, both INFP drummers reeling from BPD abuse, if you were a girl I'd ask you out we've so much in common!

Yes, I believe I sent her anxiety through the roof. She'd a couple of nights where she couldn't sleep and said she was lying awake thinking about me, would be sending me love songs and messages in the middle of the night, one time deleting a series of messages that I never got to read. She later admitted it was some really full on, intense stuff that she felt embarrassed about.

Usually in the immediate aftermath of a particularly good date she'd say that she was feeling uneasy about something, without ever specifying what it was exactly.

The month we made it official, she had a lot of ups and downs and was complaining of chest pains, ended up going on anti depressants for the first time since she was a teenager because she felt so anxious.

So the first time she sabotaged things was Halloween night. She'd been sort of distant the last week and I was a bit concerned, then she came into work dressed provocatively as Lara Croft and was heading out for the night. She smiled walking past me but I was busy with something so didn't get to reciprocate, then she walked past again later and had a concerned look. I was very busy this day and didn't get replying to her last message (it didn't even need a reply), and she messaged 'Hey, all ok?'. In truth I was uneasy about things, I was on a come down from my ADHD meds and probably worried her too much with my reply that we should grab a coffee soon for a catch up. With hindsight, I think she took this as indication that I was going to break up with her, which was insanity to me, but then I knew nothing of BPD and didn't know just how insecure she was. She texted back "Oh no, are you worried about us?", then she went out, got wasted, and ended up kissing a guy we worked with (he was an Aspie, dressed up as a granny and was very overweight, yeah I know...). She confessed to it all in the morning, we had a bit of a showdown over it where she had an anxiety attack in front of me (it was in the wake of this that she got on the anti depressants.)

Naturally, this ruined everything between us, we broke up officially a month later. Then on valentines she charmed me. We met up for a coffee, had a good catch up, then not long after had a date which went great and she seemed nuts about me again (re-idealizing). She was pushing to be exclusive, even wanted to be FB official already. Was saying she'd never had these feelings for anyone before, said she didn't know what love is (huge red flag) but that she thinks she loves me. Wanted me to meet her kids, was gonna tell her ex about me, told her overbearing hypercritical mother about me who apparently was all impressed, she booked a trip to Dublin months away for us, even hinted at moving in with her...Yeah, talk about taking it slow. This all within the space of a couple of days of that date.

Then within a week it all went to shyt with her trying to make me jealous, completely needlessly triangulating me with this "tall, dark, handsome Italian guy" in her work who had been messaging her (and she'd mentioned him before). I won't go into all the details, but an argument ensued where I called her out on her manipulation. Of course, we had crazy make up sex, but the next day we both felt something was off.

Then during the week I'd been lying in, getting up late, and she'd two days in a row texted 'all ok?'. Again, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but I think she took this as distancing from me and feared the old abandonment annihilation as 2010 would put it. This in combination with me resisting her manipulation, I think she started entertaining the advances from that Italian guy in response to this, and by our next date she dumped me in the middle of that restaurant barely 30 minutes in, listing everything supposedly wrong with me (literally every single fault mentioned was a projection, it was an incredible display of mental gymnastics).

I was fairly traumatized by the sudden and vicious way she turned on me, friends and family were especially concerned and puzzled by her crazy swings in behaviour, reassuring me this was not normal, that's how I came across BPD and realised she fit the model of a high functioning BPD:

Single mother of two unplanned pregnancies with 'abusive' ex
Parents split when she was young, absent father
Emotionally unavailable, domineering mother who never let go of her, they had lengthy phone calls most nights even still.
Only child
Bullied at school, transferred to a boarding school.
Admitted on one of our first dates that she doesn't fully understand her emotions, and has difficulty opening up to people.
Told me she "always felt she was different"

There's a book I could list of behavioral quirks that are indicative of BPD, but I don't want to labour the point.

Thanks so much for listening. Would be keen to hear your own story?







« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 05:31:40 PM by PretentiousBread » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2019, 10:27:24 PM »

People with BPD feel core shame, like:  "in worthless and undeserving of love." Hence, the constant search for validation and being easily triggered by invalidation,  real or perceived.  When it borders on being pathological, they can have trouble regulating their emotions,  and can be thus tossed into the wind,  searching for whoever can provide that which can soothe and comfort,  like that kissing incident.
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PretentiousBread

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« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2019, 10:45:09 PM »

People with BPD feel core shame, like:  "in worthless and undeserving of love." Hence, the constant search for validation and being easily triggered by invalidation,  real or perceived.  When it borders on being pathological, they can have trouble regulating their emotions,  and can be thus tossed into the wind,  searching for whoever can provide that which can soothe and comfort,  like that kissing incident.

Yup, she said as much herself, when she rang me to confess it she said "I don't know, I think it's to do with self esteem issues".
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« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2019, 10:56:13 PM »

How did you feel when she said that? My ex said similarly:

My parents' marriage!

I think i have an attachment disorder.

I'm sorry,  but I think i have a "sickness!"
This after her beau was texting her when we were sitting down to dinner with our 1 and 3 year old children.
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PretentiousBread

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« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2019, 11:16:40 AM »

How did you feel when she said that? My ex said similarly:

My parents' marriage!

I think i have an attachment disorder.

I'm sorry,  but I think i have a "sickness!"
This after her beau was texting her when we were sitting down to dinner with our 1 and 3 year old children.

At least she had the self awareness to know something was up and even go so far as to name it an attachment disorder. I think we all suffer though from a cognitive dissonance after these relationships, in that you intellectually understand what's happened, and can reassure yourself that the person is disordered and it wasn't your fault, and yet that's not how you feel day to day in the aftermath of the devaluation/discard, you've been made to feel less than, the rejection still kills, it's a knot in your stomach and it hurts in your chest. I don't know when I'll get to a point of true acceptance. Every time I think I've reached a point of emotional clarity and acceptance, I still wake up the next day with the feeling of rejection, and have to think myself out of that, again and again.

If you're anything like me, you rationalised much of their behaviour because you're a non-judgmental, understanding person and just interpreted these things as another layer of 'them' as a personality. So even the knowledge that they're disordered, that they were the problem and you weren't, it just goes against our understanding and accomodating nature, we still feel like we caused them to split us black.

When she told me about her low self esteem, to be honest it didn't fully register what was going on, I hadn't yet connected the dots as I have now. I knew it was significant, I knew she was revealing something there and it wasn't an excuse but a genuine reason that had nothing to do any fault of my own. But again, when you're that deep in the mire you struggle to see the wood for the trees. At that point I was still thinking of her as a non, so interpreted her actions as that of one, which meant I thought she cheated because she'd just got bored of me, fundamentally lost attraction and wanted to break up. I never considered the possibility that she's got that much insecurity that she'd catastrophised that I wanted to break up with her based off of the feeling she got from me that day, and she went out to self soothe and escape this miss perceived feeling of rejection and imminent abandonment.

The slightest hint of any discontent whatsoever from me about anything and she always catastrophised it, and interpreted it as me saying "You're not good enough, this relationship isn't working out", when in fact, I'd never wanted to be with someone as much as her in my entire life and had zero intentions of breaking up. But she couldn't communicate, she must've said a dozen times that she can't handle confrontation, and of course she interpreted any attempt at an adult conversation as a confrontation. Again, with hindsight I would've made extra allowances for her nature knowing what I do now and would've approached things differently, but I know that ultimately it wouldn't have mattered, would only have prolonged the eventual break up.





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« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2019, 07:36:24 PM »

Excerpt
She was pushing to be exclusive

did this ever happen? were the two of you ever exclusive?

Excerpt
Would be keen to hear your own story?

its been 80 years...

no, but it has been a bit over 8 and its a long one. we were friends for about three years...we hadnt actually "met", we met online through a mutual friend, and talked and flirted a lot on instant messenger or by phone. we liked each other, but the timing was always off, until it wasnt, and we just went for it hard. i drove to her place and the rest was history. we were together for just shy of three years...each of us 21 when we got together, and 24 when we broke up. we were young and dumb, and for each of us it was our first real adult relationship...a lotta firsts, a lot of memories. we brought out each others best and worst. we fought nearly every day, sometimes multiple times a day, and often for hours on end. we fought hard and ugly, a lot of the time. spent about 90% of those three years in each others presence. the two of us had blurry and shifting boundaries, and some serious values differences that we couldnt overcome, a lot of things about her that i couldnt deal with, and a lot of things about me that she couldnt deal with. i think around half way into the relationship i sent an inappropriate message to a gal friend and she found out. i dunno that that killed the relationship, but it was a start. its kind of blurry, but in either the last year or 6 months things deteriorated really badly. our fights got much nastier...and we each said some things i dont think we could recover from. i didnt have the guts to end it, so i emotionally withdrew from the relationship. she didnt have the guts to end it, so she started looking elsewhere. by the time i had come around and wanted to reinvest, she was done. the whole thing really rocked my psyche, and might have been, in a lot of ways, the most emotionally challenging thing ill ever face; partly because it forced me to become a more emotionally resilient, stronger person.

anywho, the juicy details are scattered throughout my posts  

Excerpt
the rejection still kills

it does. i know id never felt more understood, more accepted. to have a person love the things about you that deep down, you want to be loved for. that subsequent rejection can create a really deep ego wound, that feels like a rejection of who you are as a person.

Excerpt
So even the knowledge that they're disordered, that they were the problem and you weren't, it just goes against our understanding and accomodating nature, we still feel like we caused them to split us black.

i can tell you that it was a serious life line to learn about BPD. to gain some understanding about what id been through, was going through.

i can also tell you that no matter how many times i told myself, on a daily basis, that she was the problem and i wasnt, to mentally try to reject her every day, it wouldnt quite sink in. it wouldnt heal me.

what if its not about who was the problem and who wasnt...who was to blame and who wasnt...who was wrong and who was right?
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