How are we to respond to projection?

[*Popeye*]

What is the "proper" response to projection?  I am trying to learn to break the cycle of conflict and use "S.E.T." response.  My initial response though is a knee jerk reaction and strike back: "How dare you, who do you think you are"!  Obviously, it takes a while for my mind to realize that the BPD is Projecting.

Needless to say, the Projection is usually very hurtful and I want an apology, which never comes.  I Forgive and move on, which seems like a license to continue the behavior?  Trying to set Boundaries is more difficult when Projection is usually a result of not letting the BPD have their way. 

I honestly would like an answer to these questions as well. I don't know what S.E.T. is, but I'd like to. I, too, am in a place where forgiving and moving on without an apology feels to me like a license to continue behaving that way. I don't know how to deal with unprovoked attacks, and I don't know how to cope with never receiving an apology or even any indication of self-awareness. How does my wife never know she's in the wrong or being hurtful unnecessarily, and how is ok for her to never make amends or try to control her behavior going forward? Unfortunately, she's watched her parents forever and thinks it's normal to just be awful to the people closest to you in life. I believe the people closest to us deserve our best. What are some specific things I could try in terms of my reactions to her, and in terms of sharing that value in a way that it might be heard and acted upon?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Ozzie101]

Popeye, SET stands for Support Empathy Truth. We have a workshop on it here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143695.0

It's a very useful communication tool -- and not just in BPD relationships. Basically, when responding to someone, you start with a supportive statement or gesture. Then be empathetic. Then follow it up with a truth statement. The workshop has some good examples. Give it a look and let us know what you think. Do those tools sound like they could help you?

[No-One]

I had an experience with "projection" this week by a family member with whom I'm in a "No Contact" status.  It occurred via a text message and I didn't engage.  The situation prompted me to refresh my knowledge of projection.  Thought I'd share some advice I located.  Perhaps it could be beneficial to others.

Stopping this toxic interaction in its tracks.
If you're in a relationship in which there's some projection going on, learn how to stop it in its tracks. For example, the next time Brad gets on Laurie for overspending when he's the one who's been doing it, she could try responding like this: "Brad, this doesn’t ring true to me, and I’m not going to engage in this conversation."

By doing this, Laurie walks away to take care of her feelings, being very compassionate to herself in the face of Brad’s angry, blaming projection. By not engaging in defending and blaming back, Laurie takes herself out of the crazy-making dynamic so that it doesn’t escalate.

When your partner is projecting:

When your partner is projecting, it can feel crazy-making. You may be accused of the very things you know are true about your partner.  It feels like a complete reversal of the truth, and you may be shocked. You may feel tempted to defend yourself and prove your innocence.

The best thing to do in this situation boils down to just two things:

1) Respectfully disengage. Often, the best thing is to say something like, “This feels like it is not about me,” and then lovingly avoid getting sucked in. Be compassionate toward yourself, because it feels like a betrayal to be attacked about something that isn’t based in real-time.

2) Do not explain, defend, argue, teach, analyze, counter-attack, or criticize. If you do, your partner is off the hook. The only way to avoid getting tangled up in something that isn't about you (and become implicated) is to keep it about them. You can express empathy for their distress, and ask questions that create greater awareness (“have you felt this way in the past?” or “I can see something is really triggered in you, and I am here for you.”) But don’t pick up what isn’t yours.

If you follow these guidelines, projection can be used to expand self-awareness and closeness in any relationship. It’s just about a willingness to self-reflect.

How To Respond To People’s Projections
by DR. RICK KIRSCHNER
When a person claims to know the internal state of another person, the question you ask is “How do you know?” Mind reading statements sound like “They don’t care about me.” “He has no respect for my authority.” “You don’t understand.” “She never hears a word I say!” Such statements are ripe invitations for questions. When a person says, “They don’t care about me,” you can ask “How do you know they don’t care about you?” The answer will provide information about a sensory cue and the meaning they make of it. “They don’t even know I’m alive.” You can ask, “How do you know that they don’t even know you’re alive?” “Because they don’t smile at me when I come in.” There’s your sensory cue. No smile, they must not care.

When a person says, “You haven’t heard a word I’ve said,” you can reply, “How do you know I haven’t heard a word you said?” The beauty of that last example is that you have demonstrated the opposite of their statement without contradicting them, just by asking a question that reveals that you have heard the words being said!

3. Let the projections of others come and go
As mentioned above, projections can inflict considerable damage on the receiver, altering their thought patterns to the point where they see truth in the projections where there is none.

The harm is not, however, an instantaneous consequence of the projection. Instead, the damage is done when those thoughts and feelings are held onto, and dwelled upon again and again. Only then can your mind subsequently adopt these foreign invaders as one of its own beliefs.

Not falling under the influence of another’s projections, then, is simply a case of letting them come and go as fleeting ripples in the pond of your mind. Whatever is said, let the words pass through you like the wind passes through the branches and leaves of a tree.

However hurtful the comments may be, remember that they are not gospel; no matter who said what, your truth and your mind are your own. You have the power to control what is and isn’t allowed to permeate your thoughts and, indeed, how you react to the person who projected in the first place. Remain aloof (emotionally uninvolved; at a distance) to any negative remarks and remind yourself of their true source.

[itsmeSnap]

1) Respectfully disengage. Often, the best thing is to say something like, “This feels like it is not about me,”

This seems like an effective way to go about it, though it can also lead to the pwBPD doubling down so other tools like SET and boundaries (for example, knowing when to  physically walk away) are good to have and use in combination.

how is ok for her to never make amends or try to control her behavior going forward?

She seems ok with it, she's gotten so far not doing it, why bother making things right?.

I'm being obnoxious about it, point is you're asking her to change, she's not willing to do it. Getting someone (her) to change is very difficult if they are not open to it, so we try to get YOU to change since you're asking for help in dealing with this, you're willing enough 

What are some specific things I could try in terms of my reactions to her, and in terms of sharing that value in a way that it might be heard and acted upon?

Quid pro quo, tell us a specific situation where this happens so we can better advice on how you can approach the situation. fair enough, right?

[incognitoMe]

If I responded to projection with saying "I don't think this is about me" it would not likely end well. She would find it condescending and get angry. 

I just finished my PhD this week and have been at the research same job for 2 years, and just got promoted  yet she told me "I have no direction."  That's why she can't get her life together.

In the last 2 years my SO has been unemployed.  She has expressed in the last year that she wanted to be:

A funeral director, archaeologist, a porn star, online clothing re-seller, a real estate agent, antique dealer,  blogger, museum archivist, youtube star, estate sale company owner, retail manager, voice-over artist, ballroom dance instructor, bed and breakfast owner, farmer, artisinal fermented food seller, candle maker, and web-designer.

[once removed]

What are some specific things I could try in terms of my reactions to her, and in terms of sharing that value in a way that it might be heard and acted upon?

can you give us the back and forth of a recent example? we can help walk you through.

[No-One]

1) Respectfully disengage. Often, the best thing is to say something like, “This feels like it is not about me,”

This seems like an effective way to go about it, though it can also lead to the pwBPD doubling down so other tools like SET and boundaries (for example, knowing when to  physically walk away) are good to have and use in combination. . .

I think that the one-line comments need to be coupled with respectfully and calmly walking away.  (i.e. going to the restroom, garage or outdoors.  Perhaps announcing you are going to the store and will be back in 30 minutes). Even just saying, "I'm not having that conversation", with walking away, could be a way to disengage from the bait.

I know one size doesn't fit all and some projections are probably more suited for SET than others.  Just wondering how the "truth" in SET isn't apt to set some people on a JADE rant.

In incognitoMe's projection example of: "You have no direction", what should the SET statement look like?  Anyone want to take a crack at a sample?

Support =
Empathy =
Truth =

[oftentimes]

Support: Having a partner who has direction sounds like it's important to you.
Empathy: If that's how you're feeling, I can relate - I feel like having a partner who has direction gives me a sense of stability and confidence that they are not going to let me down or pull the rug out from under me.
Truth: Even though you don't feel this way about me or my actions, the truth is that I have worked very hard in pursing my goals by doing x,y,z. I've done this for me, but I've also done this for you because I want to be the kind of partner you deserve. I love you. (you can't say this enough. say it again and again. remember that the lack of object constancy means you have to remind them of things your already know to be true about your relationship."

[incognitoMe]

Thanks for tanking the time  to make that SET example!

[*Popeye*]

This last post was awesome. Specific ways to handle specific situations. I need some of that magic.

To continue the productivity, I'm happy to share some specific details about my weekend.

For starters, let me just get some stuff out. The term "Roller Coaster" could not be more appropriate, I feel like I'm in a battle for control, screaming "We're supposed to be in this together!" into the void. I picked up "In Sheep's Clothing" on Thursday based on a recommendation on this site, and I'm about half way through. Between "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and a book on identifying and dealing with manipulators, I have to say my head is spinning a little bit.

My wife is not consciously malicious, she's a genuinely a good person, but I'm struggling with separating that inherent genuineness from the often befuddling acts of covert aggression that affect my day to day. To the people outside of her support system, me and her Mother mostly, she is amazingly compassionate and selfless. All the ways you want to be treated by someone you love, everyone else gets, which has always been confusing. One of my values where we consistently clash, and clashed again this weekend a couple times is my ideal that we should treat those closest to us the best, rather than taking out our worst on them. It's never made sense to me until recently why someone would use the person closest to them as a punching bag. In conversations with her Mother, I've even been told that her behavior actually means she trusts me. . . which makes sense in a BPD sort of way, but neither of them know that's dysfunctional, abnormal, or that they both struggle with BPD. I've actually been mad at (or jealous of) my dog for a long time; it was inexplicable until now, and felt really petty, but my eyes are open and I realize why she's capable of openly displaying compassion and affection for an animal in a way she's rarely done for me. . . he's helpless, dependent, and he won't hurt or abandon her in any way. The most codependent dog I've ever owned, and finally I see it's not a fault of his or mine, she's just actually not scared of him. My parents are getting closer to her now, too, after about 6 years of marriage, and they're starting to notice some of the behavioral inconsistencies here and there that they were able to overlook before. Their trips are becoming less dog-and-pony, and more real, which is more wrought with friction, and has them asking questions they didn't historically ask. Her parents of course don't know there is a problem. Her mom attacking her Dad, constantly belittling and badgering him, it's just their norm, and they've got my wife convinced their behavior is just what married life is. She thinks my parents are dysfunctional because they respect each other's space, like each other, and treat each other with compassion and support. It appears difficult (if not impossible) to create an "Aha!" moment for her in which she realizes something is off. She's said before that she never wants to be like her Mom, but seems to have a blind spot for when her behavior is identically irrational and just plain aggressive.

After a couple weeks of looking into BPD, I can look back on the entire relationship at this point with new lenses and say "Holy sh#t! What was I thinking?" I'm in it now, though. I didn't marry her because she was nice, I married her because she has a wealth of positive character traits that I've never found in anyone else. She had moments of being nice early on, but there has always been a lot of awkward silence, a mild discomfort with intimacy, a real discomfort with vulnerability, and extremely different ways of seeing the world and viewing situations than my own. Some of that was honestly very attractive; what intelligent person isn't drawn to someone who sees the world in a curiously different way, maybe has completely different takes on human interaction? It's fascinating and challenging, and I've actually grown an incredible amount personally as a result. . . but I also thought it was organic. Now I know it's driven by fear, and that the closer we've gotten, the more entwined our lives have become, the harder it is to get on the same page about very basic things. Even with the proportion of good days to bad in constant flux, she's still incredible, and on good days, she's easy to be around and talk to. She's my favorite person, so I need some ways to communicate things I think are important more effectively through the fog.

A couple specific things happened this weekend, as with any prolonged period of time I spend at home, that I could have handled better I'm sure.

I guess it started Saturday evening. The day had been pretty awesome. We went out to dinner a little early after working outside and getting in some exercise. My daughter wasn't hungry, so that worked out. I had bought the Lego Movie 2 for us to watch while she ate when we got home. So far, so good. My wife has started letting her eat on the couch with a dinner tray, which is a mess because she wipes her dirty hands on the couch, doesn't sit still to eat her food or finish her vitamins, etc., but she's almost 5 and we shouldn't necessarily have to put her in a highchair, so I understand this stuff to be necessary growing pains. Towards the end of her meal, I get up to put her plate in the sink, set her vitamins on her tray, along with some allergy meds she's recently been prescribed, and ask her to finish up. She gives me a harsh "No!", crosses her arms, sticks out her bottom lip, and follows with a sharp "I don't want to!" I get it, this is par for the course, but we're watching a movie she wants, she's gotten to go to gymnastics class and play in the pool today, I'm finding it hard to wrap my head around her attitude. If she doesn't want to do things, that's to be expected, but why be a jerk? I ask her again a bit more assertively, receive more of the same, so I turn off the movie and reset the expectation of getting a lipop after dinner. If she's gonna be mean to me, I'm not giving her a bunch of nice things. I gave her an out, though. It could all go back to normal if she talks to me about what's wrong and stops giving me attitude. My only escalation left would be putting her in timeout or putting her to bed early without reading books, and I didn't want to do either of those, so I just went into cleaning mode. Awkward silence reverberates throughout the house for the next 45 minutes. My wife didn't understand why I was upset that she was "Expressing herself" and was pissed that I was trying to encourage her to talk about what was upsetting her when she didn't want to. I simply said "She's not getting nice things from me when she's being mean." Still confused as to how she was being mean to me, my wife shakes her head and sighs with disgust. I reiterate that "she doesn't get to treat me like that" before the radio silence, and around bedtime I get a few books from my daughter's room for us to read.

Things start to reset, my wife and I make some food after she’s in bed, and settle in to watch a show before we head to bed ourselves. I take a moment of pause. My new job is starting a little slower than I would like. I'm in a bit of a holding pattern, and frustrated that I'm not being allowed to do some things I feel I was hired to do. I want to make things happen, but I'm being told to hold off, and I don't feel right trying to find things to occupy my time while everyone around me has direction and well-defined roles. It's not a big deal, but I just wanted to share my feelings with someone I like feeling loved and supported by. Predictably, this doesn't go well. I've got to keep trying, though, right? She stares blankly at me throughout my voicing of the majority of my sentiments, then starts to insinuate that there's something wrong with me for being frustrated, and implying that "they probably don't trust you, because you might f#ck things up." I'm good at my job, this was a promotion, and I came highly recommended. I've been at it for 9 years in 3 different places, of course I've made mistakes before, but there's no reason to think they're being cautious with me based on a fear of me messing up. That doesn't even make sense. I set it straight gently, acknowledging that through my time I've learned some things and made some early mistakes, but that this really just feels like a bit of a purgatory and it's got me a bit frustrated and impatient. I'm handling it. I laugh off her inability to tolerate vulnerability a little bit, and tell her I appreciate her attempt at listening to me. Evening continues, no fireworks, but I just feel more alone and misunderstood, and can't help but wonder why expressing myself leads to me having to play defense.

On Sunday morning, we have a real problem. Similar issue, my daughter doesn't want to eat, won't sit still, is getting crumbs all over the couch, and throws me attitude when I simply try to engage her in genial conversation. My wife loses it, seems like she's pissed at me for breathing. She says stuff like "Why are you messing with her?", "Just leave her the f&ck alone!" I tell her I'm just trying to have a pleasant time with my daughter on a Sunday morning, that I just don't understand what she's upset about, and of course reiterate that “I don't think it's ok for us to be sh*tty to each other." She says I never just play with her, but I got up early with my little girl and played dolls with her well before breakfast. . . our nice early morning together is actually why my daughter's attitude is so puzzling. My daughter had started being a little snippy while we were playing, and said it was because she was hungry when I asked, so that's why I was confused by her refusal to eat. It very clearly looks like she started acting like more of a jerk when my wife came downstairs. I ask my wife "What makes you so unwilling to be on my team?" "Why is it that she can never do any wrong; that the man you love, your teammate, is always the one off-base?" "Do you feel like her poor behavior is a negative reflection of you?" Predictably, I get no answers. Exasperated, I finally say "This feels like it's more about you than it is me." I have to repeat it once more before she disappears. The smoke gradually clears over the following 2 hours, during which my interactions with my daughter become wonderful once more, and our Sunday ends up being an overall enjoyable day. We even address some parenting issues together later in the evening. I end up feeling like there's something wrong with me, though, and my daughter is starting to think her behavior is defensible.

My head is spinning. I know none of this seems outrageous, hell it might even be normal if I didn’t so often feel confused. That’s really what it is, I feel like my home is a place where everything I know is somehow upside down. I’ve managed to adapt, even become more self-regulated and responsible, which are good things, but I am terrified of letting my guard down, even loosening up a little bit, because I’m never sure what will start the next argument or just how catastrophic it might be. This weekend’s events were benign apart from my bewilderment, simple stuff that’s become normal, but so much about that statement is unsettling to me. How do I protect my daughter from the same twisted reality? How do I right the ship so we might be able to have healthy interactions that make sense and set a good example? I’m sure someone much better versed in this can help me out. So please, do.

[oftentimes]

I feel your pain here. My daughter is only 16 months and I am absolutely terrified of how this has already affected her and how it will continue to if the 'ship isn't righted' as you put it.

First things first. Your daughter is a child. She's 5. Remember that. Never forget it. Being 5 (and just being a child in general) means that she is observing and internalizing everything that is being modeled for her at home. If you and your wife have conversations about this in front of her (even if you are not yelling at one another) she IS picking up on them. She is internalizing them. They are building a template for her view of the world and relationships. It is impossible for a small child to understand what's actually going on here. They are not developmentally mature enough. If you are able, talk to your wife and set a very strong boundary: we do not talk about this in front of our daughter. We do not argue or yell or criticize one another in front of our daughter. In a healthy relationship, it is good for kids to see healthy conflict resolution modeled for them at home. But since it doesnt seem like you or your wife are in a place where that is possible for you all the time, you must do EVERYTHING you can to protect your daughter by not exposing her to the conflict between you and your wife.

2) Remember your daughter is 5. Five year olds aren't vindictive. They aren't capable of that kind of though process. If she is refusing to eat or being obstinate, there is a reason for it. And while I would never assume the role of a therapist, I am an expert in a field that centers on trauma/abuse/interpersonal violence - but please only take my words here as just another person's perception of what might be going on. You should talk to a professional about all of this regardless. Anyway, refusing to eat and obstinance in children can often stem from a need to feel a sense of control and stability. She is not trying to be 'mean'. She is scared and she is reacting to her fear in likely the ways she's been taught to react by what's been modeled for her at home. Just like reacting to your wife with compassion and support - you must do the same for your daughter x 1000. She is not to blame for any of this. She is the one who is truly helpless and powerless in this situation. She is the one who is truly most vulnerable. Protect her. Love her. If she is refusing to eat, you can say something like "it seems like you are going through a really hard time right now and that not eating your dinner is really important to you. You being strong and healthy is really important to me. If you don't want to eat your dinner in at the table/high chair (whatever) let's think about a place that you want to eat. Be creative. Don't be restrictive. Eating is the goal. Who cares if she eats in bed or in the garage? Give her some control over what's happening by offering her reasonable choices. Do not punish her for her behavior. Do not allow yourself to project your anger onto her.
3) Find a therapist who specializes in working with children of that age and have your daughter see that person regularly. Talk to the therapist about what you and your wife should be doing to support your daughter too. This will be the greatest and most important gift you can give her right now.

Having kids involved is so hard.  Just never forget who the child in the relationship is - even if your wife acts like a child, she is not. It can be easy to get confused by this. Try to keep a clear head. The blueprint of your daughter's life is worth it. My heart breaks for you. I hope you, your daughter, and your wife find healing and peace.

[livednlearned]

Hey Popeye,

Bill Eddy has a great book about raising an emotionally resilient child when one parent has BPD. It's called Don't Alienate the Kids, which is a title that doesn't quite capture how important the book is when it comes to parenting.

Essentially, he shifts parenting skills toward managed emotions, flexible thinking, and moderate behaviors. I think there might be a 4th thing...

It changed how I parented my son who was beginning to parent his dad's (uBPD) behaviors. I learned the hard way that if it doesn't work with a BPD adult, it probably won't work with a child whose parent is BPD.

When my son was 9 we played Lego video games together and I would invariably do something wrong. S9 would berate me the same way his dad did, they both had low frustration tolerance.

In the end, the only thing that worked was to say, "I feel sad when we play this game. I make a mistake and it upsets you and then I feel bad. I am going to do sit this one out." No punishment, just a natural consequence using statements that put language to my emotions and connected it with behaviors that made sense.

He wanted to play with me and had to figure out how to do so on his own. Kids know how, or they know how to learn how. He learned to invite me nicely, to assure me it would be ok. I once asked him what we could do if he felt frustrated and he said, "I might get annoyed and then I'll just look at you and shrug."

You will lose the power struggles every time if you play by the normal rules.

Sorry to divert the original topic away from projection. I hope it's ok.

[*Popeye*]

I want to thank both of you for responding. The truth is I have a lot to learn. I bought Bill Eddy's book (adding it to the quickly growing list of things being read), and also listened to an interview of him. I need to learn when I'm being projected upon, but also when I am projecting my own frustration with sh*t just not making sense. I need to learn when I'm being invalidating, because it certainly seems like my methods for healthy debate have been backfiring, and learn to be validating myself, both for my wife and my daughter. What I described was my attempt at setting limits, but I appreciate you pointing out that with a 5 year old, saying "We don't treat each other like that" might only serve to obscure the actual reasons for her behavior. I'm a rational man, and I want to be properly understood. I don't like to be blamed for everything, it sucks to never seem to get the benefit of the doubt when life happens and produces human error, and I do tend to lean into the conflict. . . I can be quick to defend myself, an instinct I'm struggling to subdue, at least with my wife. It still almost seems only logical to defend myself when attacked; just like being calm in order to calm an upset child is kinda counterintuitive, it only makes sense to set the facts straight and ask for a little understanding. It's maddening that the rest of the world seems to make sense, but when I walk in the door all of my reactions and interpretations seem to cause problems. We don't have shouting matches, and nobody ever gets aggressive, we just have an alarming number of befuddling disagreements - one day we'll see eye to eye, the next day I'm completely wrong for saying or doing the same thing - , and I've now spent years wondering how there manages to be so much space between us when I've worked so hard to make us close, and how I can be seen as an a$$hole and complete failure when I've bent over backwards to be supportive and seem to have found a good deal of success in life.

Please share more, it's helpful, and hopefully it can be equally helpful for you.   

[livednlearned]

I'm a rational man, and I want to be properly understood. I don't like to be blamed for everything, it sucks to never seem to get the benefit of the doubt when life happens and produces human error, and I do tend to lean into the conflict. . . I can be quick to defend myself, an instinct I'm struggling to subdue, at least with my wife. It still almost seems only logical to defend myself when attacked; just like being calm in order to calm an upset child is kinda counterintuitive, it only makes sense to set the facts straight and ask for a little understanding.

If you have a history where reality was distorted in childhood (like someone important ignoring your pain and suffering) you may be more prone to feeling double the indignation when she tells you it's raining when the sky is clear blue.

For me, I made it a project to pay attention to how I felt in those moments. You can learn to tame your own emotions -- what works best will depend on who you are. Being silent does not mean agreeing. It can mean regulating your own emotions when someone else is clearly not, getting yourself to a response mode instead of reacting.

If you are highly anxious the feeling of being in a restful calm non-defensive state may be foreign and require a little extra legwork to figure out what it is and how it feels. Once you get it, you can practice, with the goal of being able to locate that feeling more readily when you are on the receiving end of a bizarre claim about reality.

one day we'll see eye to eye, the next day I'm completely wrong for saying or doing the same thing - , and I've now spent years wondering how there manages to be so much space between us when I've worked so hard to make us close, and how I can be seen as an a$$hole and complete failure when I've bent over backwards to be supportive and seem to have found a good deal of success in life.

She doesn't trust herself. She abandons herself. And that self is a collection of fragments so it makes no sense to take responsibility with something (someone, a whole self) she doesn't have. That's why so much is sprayed outwards. You are on the receiving end of her own distorted reality, a much more tangible object of frustration.

What is real for her are emotions. She attaches them to external facts because that's what she believes reality is.

We have to disengage a bit from the content and start to label and ID the feelings. That helps both people in a conflict.

[once removed]

I do tend to lean into the conflict

your heart and head are in good places, friend.

in my experience, it was my own lack of openness to consider new ways of looking at or handling things that drove so much conflict. what was, i see now, a strong need to be right.

its when we realize that that kind of openness is not about defeat or blame, or win or lose, but about peace, and conflict resolution, that things really do get easier. and livednlearned is so very right that with practice, we can tame our emotions, and naturally begin to gravitate toward more constructive responses. ideally, it builds trust in our relationship, and our partners even follow our lead.

have you seen this: https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind

Wisemind is in essence the synthesis between our logical and emotional mind.

[mart555]

I just finished my PhD this week and have been at the research same job for 2 years, and just got promoted  yet she told me "I have no direction."  That's why she can't get her life together.

In the last 2 years my SO has been unemployed.  She has expressed in the last year that she wanted to be:

Why not bail out before things get "complicated" ?

[livednlearned]

It still almost seems only logical to defend myself when attacked

One thing that helped me is to focus on physical sensations in those moments.

When you feel attacked, notice what your body is doing. Fists clenched, shallow breathing, tightness in shoulders, chest, neck, jaw. Whatever it might be, notice it.

Make that be what you are doing -- creating a log or inventory of how your body responds to an attack.

The next step is to notice how you feel when calm. Then figure out how to get from fight, flight, freeze to something more regulated.

Being rational and logical can be shorthand for not noticing physically what is happening.