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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: A pipedream built with hope and determination.  (Read 622 times)
Sandb2015
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« on: May 25, 2019, 03:51:24 PM »

This is so difficult to do.

The time I thought had meaning, the days, the weeks, months, the keeping track of what has happened as though it has meaning trying to determine what will happen next. That kept me running in circles, waiting and hoping.  There are no rules with mental illness, nothing predictable, everything a rational person needs to form logic, no comparison.

Kicked out viciously 12/19/2018 after 3.5 years of abuse, accepting the abuse because of love forgiveness and hope for a change followed by 5 months of craziness, extreme turmoil, good and bad, textbook stuff from the mentally ill.

Well even though she met someone right after I left and we still saw each other on and off with continued abuse, she seemed to pick the company of the other guy as time went on.

The frequency that we communicated, texted, met up and shared something resembling "nice" became far and few between.

Well, I did something that is not for the faint of heart...as I was in the "hope", love and determination confusion, I said I won't be with her now...that turned into, "I'll be with her later in the future and I'll dream about it now". I stalked her and her boyfriend last Sunday, her work picnic that she begged me to go to about a month prior.  I was shaking, almost passing out, pushing myself to do something so childish yet I kept pushing to see, I was obsessed.

Well, I got my wish, I saw them together and it all became real, I saw them take two cars towards her home and I texted her and she answered right away as though she was not doing anything, I was in traffic two cars away, hers in front, his behind and me, and we texted back simple things and it was all so normal to her. after the local traffic, I went on my way, numb basically.

I texted her about an hour later and she texted me back, I was doing it to see that she won't go off channel while he's at her home (I wish he knew this, but it's not my responsibility), nope, she is taking breaks in between responses telling my she's cleaning, cooking etc., he's in her cocoon while she is texting me back downstairs. Her bedroom is the place she has always cocooned regardless of what's occurring at home, a safe place, I don't know.  This went on for a few hours on and off, I wanted to be annoying and see what she does, nothing, as if she's home just chilling, that wasn't the case. I stopped and went back into my zombie state and tried to sleep. I imagined she did that with me also, but I'm not hung up on it, doesn't matter now, the self torturous ruminations are subsiding...

Monday! Something came over me that took a few days to realize, seeing them together, her texting me on the side, her normalcy in doing so and the fact that she is not the person I had been with all this time, she was her now, the real her, not the one she HELPED me imagine her to be, and not just imagine at the time, she was a put on, a sham.

The slowly building indifference that took some real soul searching to realize what I'm feeling, what is this painful but oddly good feeling, indifference.

We shared some texts Monday, nothing involved or emotional in context and then I started getting some strange texts regarding being friends and wanting to help me. Okay, I'll play along...

Yes, let's be friends, but please define our friendship so there's no confusion or the boundaries are known so we can remain friends (It's a dangerous game I was playing because I can't win this).  Several times we went back and forth with no response regarding that but she went on to met me know that she analyzed me and basically said because I have childhood trauma and wasn't loved, I'm an empty being latching on to any woman just to fill my void and she's going to help be able to love truly someone else in the future, not how I pretended to love her.  She really went on in this text and it seemed as someone else wrote it as I know her conjecture, syntax, mistakes and all the nuances of her texting...only at the end did I understand hit was her.  After labeling me with many "cluster B" traits with some trauma bonding (I initiated of course) symptoms and the threat of not getting help from her will leave me alone and unloved for life...I giggled, I couldn't wait to tell my T.

As I was recognizing this strange indifference and wanting it to flood me which it wasn't as quickly as I wanted, I didn't argue or contradict anything, I just kept on with my "game", I said, "I'm so grateful that you'd like to help me and offering friendship, let's talk, I have many things to say". Paragraph header (click to insert in post) Paragraph header (click to insert in post) Paragraph header (click to insert in post) I was going to use this indifference to the max and see if it holds up, again, dangerous given what I've been through.

That stopped the texts...that was at 10 am. I have a pen pal that's going through the same as me and I bless the day she reached out, she doesn't recognize that she has been a pillar even when we both communicate our confusions, truthful confessions, our regressions, we stay together on the base of friendship, we validate and listen, we learn.  She is helping and I wish to help back double.

Me and C, my pen pal were on the phone about 10:30pm and B (my mentally ill ex) called.  For the first time, I didn't shake, tremble, have some sort of adrenaline and I did not answer, I felt that indifference again, no message, no texts, I told C that's she calling and it was while I was talking about her which freaked us both out.  Normally I would have picked up no matter what was happening, I would have dropped a newborn baby (dark humor-of course I wouldn't). I did not feel inclined to answer out of indifference, not anger.  Well me and C finished our conversation and I got ready for bed, about 11:30pm I got a text, I thought it was C, It was B saying, " I thought you wanted to discuss stuff", 2 minutes later, "good night", I responded, "good night", nothing more.  That was Wednesday, saw my most amazing T on Thursday that is a trauma therapist that mostly works with combat veterans and prior to that, worked both sides (the ones that have it and us) of the "cluster B" disorders...today is Saturday.

Since then I will share all that has gone through my mind.

B has significant "cluster B" traits. B was not who I wanted her to be, never was, the B I see, feel and "understand" now is the one that was always there. I have done research and experienced what only a small part of the population knows, surviving a relationship with a cluster b individual.  The terrible part, all I know can't be used for much in my life except helping others and being aware that it doesn't happen to me again.

She was, is and will always be mentally ill.  I've also had to remember the traumatic abuse brought on by B over the last 3.5 years that I just waxed over and hid away-----that really s*cked! My video/picture perfect memory is amazing and I forced my self to remember the words, her face, my feelings and response, I had to, like I had to see her last Sunday with her boyfriend that sexually shared us at the same time without either one of knowing at that time.

Hope + Denial Paragraph header (click to insert in post) Paragraph header (click to insert in post) Paragraph header (click to insert in post) Paragraph header (click to insert in post) Paragraph header (click to insert in post)

I have used hope to my advantage so many times in my life to get through some real difficult times, I could always count on it.  It was the only real tool I've used over and over and there wasn't a tool available to help me with this "thing".

I denied everything, the stories I read on Quora, bpdfamily and other places, "that's not her", "that's not me", "it won't turn out this way", "we'll be the lucky ones", "I'm such an ass*ole to pigeon hole her", "she's going through a phase", "when I get my sh*t together, she'll coming running back", "She just got bored or frustrated, she'll remember the love we share", "plenty of people break up, sleep with others and get back together to start fresh and strong", "I'm strong enough", "I'm forgiving enough", I'll always be be there no matter what".

The one statement that rules them all, "I love her enough to sacrifice anything". I almost did, I thought in detail how to kill myself without leaving a mess, how to do it painlessly, I really thought it out and was a day or two away on several occasions.


The guy with a heart of gold that makes mistakes and is no more perfect than anyone else, the guy that really thinks about his own motivations, right or wrong, the conscientious guy, the guy that is considerate, thinks about his effect on others, the guy that has a clear conscience because he reflects and ponders daily about when and how he's been wrong in order not to repeat, the guy that will accept blame for a wrongdoing and apologize with sincerity, the guy that does shine.

That guy was going to end his life to free himself from the pain and hopelessness.

After I past that stage, after thinking about the infinite pain I would leave behind (but not with B), I drove to a psychiatric hospital several times about to commit myself voluntarily, I could see myself getting stuck there making a more difficult world where I had to rely even further on my wonderful Aunt and Uncle, maybe other relatives to help me when I'm "better" and out without income and who knows in what state, I saw myself giving up altogether inside a psych ward and that was what I was fighting.

Ironically, if I wasn't recycled at that time, I might have either killed myself or committed myself.  Seemed that more pain and trauma saved me? That was short lived, but I put that behind me so slowly, I was grateful.

I stayed in such a state until seeing her and him on Sunday with all the things an amazing imagination could bring, the sexual ecstasy I gave her, we shared now watching someone else and her reciprocating...going places and seeing the look on her face and the "energy=lovebombing" that I could swear ON MY LIFE was real.  Hearing the promises she made me and could swear ON MY LIFE were real, being sworn to another, the dreams of the future I could swear ON MY LIFE she meant and so on and so on until she'd reach out to me and FORGET everything that happened up until that second she did and run to her, only to get back into the same pattern.

I didn't give up...I promised myself I wouldn't give up and god help the challenger.
Well, I'm letting myself off the hook, I'm not giving up on the person that wasn't that person, I am giving up on the person I didn't know that is the person she is.

The truth.

I won't hold her hand again, we'll never laugh together again, we'll never make love again, we won't do anything we discussed doing as she promised and so did I, I won't die by her side or her by mine.

Nothing was real and whatever she was doing with me will never be known.

I feel only slight betrayal, pain, confusion, crushed, abnormal mental state etc, it's more than a fog lifting, it's a whole lot more and it's very slowly inching towards a healthier place.

B had many traits I didn't want to recognize across cluster B, most definitely BPD and that's how I found this board, major NPD traits also, but there seems not to be an equivalent board for NPD, signs of slight schizophrenia.

I lost compassion, I'm not angry, it's becoming the sour indifference and I know she was heartless and cruel it a way I still can't fathom, she still is and will always be whether she knows or not and there isn't a mental health professional that could honestly say they know either.

It didn't matter how much I mastered the tools and strategies here or how good of a "caretaker" I wanted to be, this had an expiration date I would have never known anyway.

It took me hours to write this, I had some panic attacks during this time, I tremble sometimes, I cry, I force myself to ask myself why and I keep saying to myself I was traumatized by a mentally ill woman.

I welcome indifference more and more, it's the thing that started this healing I think.

I have not gone NC, why should I, she has little effect on me unless she wants to say anything cruel...I'm going to make sure she fades away.

I do think of her here and there and I see a miserable individual that will never feel good the way I will as I'm whole person that knows the difference.  She can't learn it, be it or have it and I do not feel sorry for her, I will always try to remember why, that's something I shouldn't have to, but I need to.

Thank you bpdfamily and all the wonderful people that lend their hearts and minds to us, a once newbie, now with battle scars on the inside that can run with the best of them in the most emotionally devastating race no one but us can imagine.






« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 04:00:24 PM by Sandb2015 » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2019, 08:27:51 PM »

Almost my identical experience.  Im sorry you experienced that but glad you shared.  I hope to follow your lead and reach a similar place of detachment and acceptance. 
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« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2019, 11:58:52 PM »

It sucks when they move on,  it just plain does, especially seeing it. 
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clvrnn
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« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2019, 11:30:21 AM »

This is so beautifully written and expressed, I felt all of your emotions while reading this. Your progress is evident to see, even from this piece of writing. Keep going, and moving forwards 
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Sandb2015
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« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2019, 02:39:36 PM »

Thank you everyone.

Today I’m a little depressed, feeling sorry for myself. It’s a holiday with nothing to do and nobody to do it with, this will pass.

I am left with the bad memories as a choice, I know what dwelling or becoming obsessed with the good stuff that was based on nothing at all. It’s so painful to force myself to think of the bad stuff and how I feel now. I feel that if I force this, these feelings of detachment will pick up speed, I can’t imagine having to feel this way for an extended period of time.

The truth, facing it over and over gave me what I needed to let go and now the healing.

Physically and psychologically, I’m not normal. I’ve read enough to know what occurs during trauma bonding and the long lasting effects, I’m looking ahead and sometimes see a different feeling then now.

She’s a distant memory, the physical and mental leftovers of a terrible nightmare.

Now I have to let myself heal and it just doesn’t feel like it’s happening in a way I notice.

Like many of us, we tried so hard, we sacrificed ourselves in ways we didn’t know, I guess it may work in the opposite now.

I’m in therapy and my T is great. I know I forced myself to finally break free, it’s just the aftermath doesn’t coincide with the letting go. Like holding something that’s burning you hands, damaging them, letting go and expecting relief. That relief hasn’t been felt yet, the pain has subsided somewhat, the residual pain isn’t.

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« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2019, 10:22:56 PM »

Excerpt
I giggled, I couldn't wait to tell my T.

what did your T say?
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Sandb2015
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« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2019, 12:11:17 PM »

Once removed,

Thank you.

Firstly, my T says I have severe trauma.  I'm just starting to notice the effects on my body, besides the weight loss, intermittent trembling/uncontrolled shaking, intermittent blurriness in my right eye, out of control thyroid function (I had under active thyroid for 15 years and was absolutely stable until the last year or so but now all over the place.

These things are clearer to me than before. My ex would mock me when I trembled, stop taking your thyroid meds, just start working out, if you don't, I don't think we can have a lifetime together, I almost stopped. A year before, don't go for the stress test, it's bs, listen to me.  That stress test found a 97% blockage in my LAD (widowmaker), thankfully they got a stent in and I had a collateral artery that took up the slack--------never had any heart attack. She heard that I may have some DNA from the Malaysia where a large concentration of the collateral artery may have originated (I don't) and started telling me how much she hates Chinese people, she's Korean.  So another imaginary mark against me, I'm Chinese (I'm mostly Irish/European). Can't shake the labels of a BPD/NPD cluster B individual.

My T says that she has as noted during last texts, I am the one with some mental illness, I am codependent and narcissistic and soulless on top of needing her help if I want love "again" in my life.

It's all blame shifting, she has some idea of her mental illness and projecting the blame as well as covering her own shame which are the same pretty much.  I've been made to believe I am the one, the cause, the one with severe issues incapable of loving and sabotaging every rs I had.  This behavior or thinking is a way of closing the book on her responsibility, accountability, any remorse or guilt, blame it away while appearing as a friendly source of help either now or later.

For a while, I questioned everything, mostly my mental status and I was overly concerned that it was me.

Well, as I have spoken to several therapists, I have trauma from the abuse that occurred during the rs and some past childhood trauma.

My T explains I am an Empath which I quickly dismissed as it doesn't fit the image I want to project to compensate for my inner self, scared, needing love, very sensitive, too trusting and the need to give.

I am the person inside, that's who I am, looking to be accepted has caused me great grief.

Her behaviors from what I described, most likely her NPD traits were dominant, very dominant.

I haven't been contacted again and will take a "grey rock" approach to any communication if she contacts me.  I will not take calls, only email or text for now.

I have since stopped taking much about her and we have swung in my direction, my mental state, my worries, my self care, my future.

I was "brainwashed" for lack of a better term and the traumatic effects are mind altering, temporarily body altering.

It's confirmed, I may feel like I am losing my mind, I'm not.

I have an appointment with the Endocrinologist on Monday, making an appointment with a Neurologist and then an Ophthalmologist.

I am feeling better some days, some days too much thinking, but different then before.

It's hard to put my finger on how I'm getting better, still can't smile, can't sleep sometimes.  Trying to reconnect with the people I cut off (she gave constant ultimatums), I will try to make some amends with my son's mother in the only way I can, she won't return any correspondence, I let my ex take the reins and I approved.

I think less and less of my feelings of love and caring and as I think I mentioned, a growing indifference towards her which I welcome like a gift from heaven.

I don't deny the facts, I have wanted to be loved my whole life and I've been somewhat codependent, looking back, it was never really challenged and I hardly exhibited the feelings and actions of a codependent rs of the few long term rs I've had.

This one was the one that almost destroyed me in every way.

The codependent and NPD dance...my feet are still moving and the music is playing without my dance partner and it will take a while for my mind to realize the dance is over.

My mind and heart are slowly meeting up again, but the trauma has caused me physical issues that keep me concerned.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 12:23:07 PM by Sandb2015 » Logged

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Sandb2015
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« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2019, 12:44:59 PM »

I am and have experienced extreme trauma bonding according to my T.  I shared details wish her that I still can't even share on a public but anonymous board.  She is awesome and she validates me and she is "in the mix" of trauma therapy. My one thing I look forward to every week, I count the days.

I feel emotionally numb but I can see something good on the horizon, just barely a shadow of something like a mirage, inside I know THAT is real.

A good book...

Adult children of Alcoholics...don't remember the authors name.

Couldn't relate to much except for the lying to please or the perception of what someone may be pleased by.  Lying about the smallest and meaningless things...that's me!

It's two sided, fear of vulnerability and wanting acceptance.  I know this about me more now then ever.  It's never been put through the ringer as it has in this rs, I don't feel guilty about anything, codependent traits made it worse for me, the outcome would have been the same regardless of any tools I had.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 12:54:18 PM by Sandb2015 » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2019, 01:34:30 PM »

I found that beautiful, i wish you every happiness.
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clvrnn
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« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2019, 01:42:15 PM »

I don't think I have anything to add to this at the moment, but I am following this thread, and your story, and sending you as much love and support as I can  
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Sandb2015
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« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2019, 01:55:55 PM »

Longterm, thank you.

I find beauty in nothing right now, nothing and KNOW I'm in a holding pattern for me coming back, I did love myself before, I was proud of the guy I was, I was good inside.

Wanting love as I gave it, small problem, too trusting, big problem. Nothing out of my realm, there's more I know and I'm open to anything and everything.

It's only recently I saw the truth of what happened, that was the most difficult.

It's only recently as the "heroin" wore off, I started feeling a little mentally ill, physical problems coming to light.

I gave my all and bpdfamily was a safe haven to me but as I probably already mentioned, she had significant NPD traits and I was hoping it was BPD and actually traits across cluster B.

I was so gearing myself up and I had everything from patience to all the tools ready and used them at times.

In the end, zero remorse, zero empathy, never guilt whatsoever...add some schizoid outbursts, I was wishing it was just BPD.

Imagine that, I was wishing it was just BPD.


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Sandb2015
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« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2019, 02:07:09 PM »

 clvrnn,

Thank you and my love back to all.

I'm past my angry stage, I do wonder how she'll do with THE new guy, the guy after and I imagine the wrong stuff but not too much, I know every guys fate.  Hopefully not as bad as mine, this was life changing.

I don't have a need to keep n touch, keep tabs on her, I really have apathy.

She may or may not reach out to me, the response won't be one she would want.

I've seen and experienced so many things in my life and after the truth of this, I can't relate it to ANYTHING I've experienced from the greatest highs and the horrible lows, nothing even comes close and we seek something to relate it to and this "new experience" is life changing.

Maybe as time goes on, my perspective may change, I'll share my process of healing as it come here with all of you.
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