Understanding Abusive behavior and BPD-ripping my clothes

[Utah]

   My wife acts out in her anger by ripping my clothes.  I am down to one shirt to wear to work.  I have allowed this to go on for years.  I have hidden some personal special items that in the past that have also been targeted.  If I try to set a boundary clothes are ripped.  In the absence of my having clothes left, she ripped 4 of her shirts.  Of course it is my fault. This episode is in its fourth day.  Longer than usual. 

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PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Borderlined]

I haven't had to deal with that, but I can understand it happening.  What triggers this?

[Utah]

I will respond with clarifying conversation to something she says when blaming me. She hears it as defending myself.  Then her emotions escalate.  She tells me to leave the house.  I do and then she rips my clothes.  If I try to stop her then she rips more.  If I try to talk she says I will rip a shirt for each comment you make even if they are meant to be calming.  Then when I see the ripped clothes and say oh not this again then she may rip more.  It almost seems like a substitute for hurting herself which she does not do.  Sometime she says this is the punishment that I deserve.  I sense that in reality she is punishing herself.

She is highly functional outside the home and will not seek help.

I know she is depressed and stressed.  Her moods are sad or mad.

[Borderlined]

I'm sorry I don't have an answer.It is horrible when people we love make it do difficult for us  You sharing helps me see I'm not the only person that has to deal with issues that no one else ever seems to have. For the longest time there was a part of me that mine had me feeling that I was the one that needed the help and I was a horrible person.
I'm thinking it's never right to ruin someone's things. There's boundaries to be met here but I am not the person to tell you how to go about it.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Utah-
I’d like to welcome you to bpdfamily.  I’m sad for the circumstances under which you’ve come here, but glad that you found this community.

Your dilemma is interesting, but at least she has not accelerated to destroying the house yet.  We’ve seen that here, so this behavior needs to be arrested.  When did this begin?  Can you provide an example of a conversation?

You mention that aside from the clothing she rips, your W has gone after other items that are special to you and you have now “hidden” those items.  Does that mean those items are outside the home?  I hope so but if not, that may be something to consider.

There are some very solid communication tools that can help in relationships with our BPD partners.  In exploring this site, look under the “Tools” section.  The first thing you want to read about to avoid is “JADE”.  Use care NOT to Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain... even though that is what feels most natural.  Your W picks up on your defending yourself (it’s a natural reflex!).

Then look at validation skills and SET (Support, Empathy, Truth).

While you are learning these skills, you may want to consider renting a small locker to store your meaningful personal items (family photos, yearbooks, jewelry) and clothing AWAY from her mischievous hands.  If she chooses to rip her own things, the price for destruction could be that she replaces them, not you.  That’s a boundary.  Do you replace her items now?

Nothing will change until something changes.  And sadly under the circumstances, only you will provide that change.  But she MAY respond positively to the changes in you.

We all came here in the FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt) of it all.  There is light...

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Utah]

Gemsforeyes<

Your response was helpful.  I was not familar with JADE.  I have been working on validation.
I can and do keep items in my office.  Clothes are harder to keep there but that can be done to some degree.  One item that she just bought for me that was still brand new in the box was a watch that she took out and smashed with a hammer.  There have been other keepsakes destroyed over the years.  I did give some keepsake items to our 2 adult sons for them to have and for safekeeping.

I have allowed this destruction of personal items going on for 10 years (we have been married 38) after our sons we were on their own.  Prior to that it was a variety of verbal abuse.  Naturally it keeps escalating.  During the "calm time" we have rebought clothes that are then fair game for the next "anger" time.

I just started sending emails to myself addressed to my wife to express my thoughts and feelings to help me calm done.

The most recent conversation was regarding my taking a vacation day on her first day off after she is done teaching.  I have a legitamate work event that day although I have taken it off as a vacation day.  On Thursday she told me that she was doing something on that day for herself.  I commented that my work commitment was important and that if she did her event I would go to work, but still was not obligated and had the day off.  2 days later (this past Saturday) she decided not to do her event and then accused me of wanting her to do it so I could go to work.  She quoted the first half of my comment, but not the last part.  When I tried to clarify it went out of control from there.  Apparently I was choosing work over her after she had worked so hard this school year.  (She did have a stressful year) so it went downhill from there.

I won't ramble on about that.  I am looking for guidance in how to set boundaries about ripping my clothes.  Any attempts I have mades she rips more and then go on to some of her clothes.  Eeven the rare times I have not reacted to the ripped clothes it does not help.  It just has to run its ugly course.

Thanks,

Utah

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi Utah-
I keep reading this and scratching my head over this situation.  38 years is a long time.  It’s clear you’re a very dedicated man.  Is your W diagnosed and has she done any therapy in the recent past?  Have you ever done any marriage counseling?

If I’m understanding this correctly, for the first 28 years of your marriage, you “only” dealt with verbal abuse.  I am NOT minimizing this behavior, believe me.  Then 10 years ago something changed and she moved on to property ripping and occasional hammer use (your new watch for example).  How does she behave after this destructive behavior?  Is she contrite?  Sorry?  Ashamed?  Blaming of you?  Are there tears?  How do you behave?

What do you see as the “trigger” 10 years ago?  The boys leaving the nest?  Did she express anything?  There could be clues she may be giving...  I’m trying to get some insight to see if we can dip into her thinking.

To pwBPD, Feelings = Facts.  They have a tendency to alter the reality to match what they are feeling.  Projection.  So we need to try and tap into that to see where certain things come from...it can help us get to a healthier place.

When she begins to rip, are you ALWAYS there at the start of the destruction?  Does she announce that she is going to do it? Does she ever start when you are absent?

In your 38 years of marriage, have you ever had a short period of taking space for yourself?  Have there ever been discussions of a therapeutic week apart to figure out how to be more peaceful together?  Maybe a men’s retreat in nature or a church thing or something non-threatening like that?

I also need to address something you said that’s troubling... “Naturally it keeps escalating”. 

Utah, Has your W ever put hands on you in a way that made you feel unsafe?  When your W took the hammer to the new watch, was there anything in that action that scared you?  When she rips clothing, is she using only her hands or is she using scissors?

Let’s keep talking.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Utah]

Gemsforeyes,

Thank you again for your repsonse. 

My wife is not diagnosed and has refused all attempts for therapy for herself or marriage counseling.

I have gone to therapy.  Interestingly, BPD did not come up.  I came across that on my own.

To answer some of the last questions first.  No she has never put her hands on me except a couple of times to grab my upper arm in the car.  I did not witness her smashing the watch.  I was not at home.   She told me about it first before I saw the hammer laying next to the smashed watch.  Sometimes she bluffs and just hides my things.

Are you thinking I am at physical risk? 

At first she would only rip with her hands.  For a while it is with a scissor.  She only does it in front of me on ocassion.  Usually she tells me she is going to do by text or phone and then it may or may not happen.  Usually when I am not around.  She may leave the house and I come home and find the damage.

I have had very little time apart for her.  She is very reluctant to travel by herself or for me to be away.

The trigger seem to be a perception of some unfairness regarding other people, like they get away with something at work, or not feeling included in something with family or church.  My response to the destruction has been varied.  Ignoring it, to trying to restrain her or take it away if I am there, or suggest a pause to my becoming quite loud and verbal about it or just removing myself from the house for a while.  I can't really say what helps.  It seems to have runits course.

Her repsonse is 90% blaming me for quite a while that I deserve this.  After a while she may express some remorse, but then wants credit for herself about how much grace she is giving me to rebuy clothes.

 It feels like  "shoot first and then ask questions later"  so it is hard to know the trigger.  I have asked her to express what is stressing her first, but later she may share something about what was really in her thinking.  Half of the time it is not about me but other relationship issues.

Thanks so much,

Utah

[No-One]

This has gone on for so long, you may need to get very serious about the situation. Perhaps she has Intermittent Explosive Disorder?

People with BPD or BPD behaviors generally have multiple mental health issues.  You might let her know that if she continues to refuse eval/treatment for her unacceptable behaviors, that you will call for emergency assistance the next time it happens.  (meaning she will be taken in for a mental eval). A 4-day event should surely qualify her for a mental health hold.

It's interesting that she progresses on to destroy her own things.  Perhaps you need to buy some cheap shirts from a thrift shop and she can unleash her anger onto them.  If it's the ripping action that seems therapeutic for her, maybe some old sheets could keep her busy for awhile (rip it to shreds). She may not be satisfied, however, until she punishes you to some degree.

It's always interesting when people seem to carry on okay in a work setting and  save up their emotions until they get home.  You have to wonder if she might loose composure in a school setting some day.  Hopefully, she doesn't teach young children.

You might need to find more ways to hide clothing, Have you tried getting a locked trunk or armoire?  You might want to check out the info. on developing a safety play (see link at the bottom of the thread). 

If she get's so out of control, you never know what behavior she might escalate to.  You might want to take some video of her events.  Since she wants to blame you for everything, you never know if she might try and blame you and place a false police report.


  

[Gemsforeyes]

Threatening our partners and issuing ultimatums to loved ones who exhibit traits of mental illness (once we sort of figure it out) is generally not a recommended course of action.  That is, unless she physically threatens you or begins to exhibit suicide ideation or actual threats of suicide.  If she were to actually be in a state of complete disassociation and hysteria when she’s ripping the clothing, then perhaps telling her you are afraid for her, and if she doesn’t calm down you will have no choice but to call for assistance.  Is that the case?  Does she seem to be “out of her mind” when she’s ripping?

As for comorbities of mental illnesses, we cannot diagnose anyone here.  When we’re dealing with a partner who refuses treatment or real acknowledgement or accountability that they have a problem, we do what we can.  When we land here, it’s because we’ve likely recognized enough BPD traits in our loved ones; and the communication tools here can help immensely to reduce the conflict. 

With my uBPDbf of 6 years, I have no idea whether he’s ever received a diagnosis or not.  I have an inkling he has been diagnosed.  I found this site by accident when I googled “unprovoked rage in men” 3.5 years into our r/s.  And like most people, I read like a maniac, although I was so worn down by that time.  Not too many years before had fled an abusive LT marriage and thought uBPDbf was my bright star.

Unlike others here, prior to finding out about BPD, I HAD issued ultimatums to him.  I abhor heavy drinkers (he knew this).  I have good reasons for this.  He had started drinking a bottle of wine daily and I told him if he continued drinking wine, I would be unable to spend any more time with him.  I sweetly explained how his personality changed when he drank wine, and how that hurt me.  He stopped drinking wine immediately, apologized and never drank another glass of wine in my presence.  So I guess I did what I’m saying NOT to do!  I was willing to end the r/s.  The other ultimatum had to do with telling him to see a T about his expression of anger and rages.  He could lose his anger or he could lose me.  His choice.

Needless to say, the rages continued (there’s other more painful stuff, too)... I learned the communication tools the best I could and applied them to our interactions.  Stress builds up in him like a pressure cooker and if he doesn’t let it out, he will explode.  So he can vent to me about whatever he needs to, but he’s got to keep it non-personal or he’s got to go.  I have the luxury of sending him away when I need to... then he waits for me to forgive him.  The failures in our relationship take place when I drop my proverbial communication tool belt; When I lose my energy with him, when I fail to lead us.

I think that’s the key... I cannot rely on him to ever take the wheel and lead us.  I wish I could, but he’s not strong enough.  He is a man in many other ways.  But emotionally, he cannot lead us. 

So Utah, that’s up to you.  You have to be the emotional leader in your marriage.  And you do that with language.  It feels like a foreign language at first, but then it becomes second nature.  And it works.  Mine mimics me, begins to validate me.

Please continue to read about JADE, SET and reducing conflict.

And as far as work goes, mine is very high functioning and talented and successfully holds a highly visible job that people covet.  He’s been there for nearly 15 years.  They see the beautiful him, in all ways.  I see the beautiful and the beast.  I doubt Your wife is unsafe to those she teaches.

Sorry for the stream of consciousness and length of this post.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi Utah-

Sorry for the double response post.  And the length of my previous response.  I threw too much personal stuff in there, so I apologize.  But I want to clarify that I understand how much of your W’s ripping episodes likely have little to do with you.  Although you’re paying the price (literally and emotionally) for the episodes and outbursts.  I did not mean to imply your safety is at risk; however if you notice ANY indication that her actions are moving in that direction, any threat toward your physical safety, then our conversation needs to move in a different direction.  Men can just as readily be victims of domestic violence.  The first incident needs to be reported.  Said and done.  And the next time she grabs your arm while you’re driving, you may want to pull the vehicle over at the first safe opportunity, or when you get home, tell her she scared you and put both of your safety in jeopardy, and to please not do that again.  (You can record the conversation on your phone.)

I understand no-one’s suggestion about purchasing inexpensive shirts or sheets at a second-hand store, but I’m thinking you want to break the ripping behavior and turn it toward something more positive.  Really try to break through and get your W to  communicate.

In thinking about an approach to the ripping, how practical is your W from a financial / spending standpoint?  Have you ever, or can you calculate how much y’all have spent replacing items she’s destroyed?  Say in the last year, two years, five years?  Maybe have a look at past credit card statements, if you use those for clothes shopping.  Generally CC statements for the last 7 years are available online.  There is an “opportunity” cost to everything.  What could y’all have done with that money?  What beautiful beach vacation, cruise, trip to the mountains could you have taken with that money?  I’m hoping this may mean something... just an idea.

There could be a “reward” of sorts for NOT ripping.  I hope I’m not sounding too ridiculous here, but we’re dealing with people who lack emotional maturity.  So say she’s getting worked up, you agree ahead of time that next time this happens, you both get out of the house, take a half hour walk and put $50 or whatever into the reward kitty.  She can work out her stresses on the walk.  Tell you all about those “bad” people at the church.

Let’s talk, your thoughts?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes 

[COLB]

Utah,
You are not alone.  My wife of 30 years has been verbally abusive and threatening for decades.  It escalated as I neared retirement from the military and the first of our children left the house.  That was about 5 years ago.  (the next two children left as soon as they could) It has been smashed cell phones, destroyed wedding photos, items of mine that had emotional significance thrown out on trash day while I was at work, gas lighting on Facebook and other social media, estrangement from her family and mine, estrangement from our older children (we now have 3 out of the house that have a range of little to no interaction with their mother).  My wife would threaten to destroy uniforms when I was in and followed through once.  In this elevated state i have tried to focus on reducing triggers and enforcing boundaries.  I also (as best I can) try not to get caught in the FOG.  It has not reduced the pain and stress of her outbursts but It helps me to stay centered.  Being centered and not getting pulled into the FOG helps me to enforce boundaries. 
COLB

[Utah]

COLB,

Thank you for sharing your experiences with me.  I am just beginning to put into practice JADE and FOG, etc.  I have been in therapy on and off for a number of years for myself.  Every therapist has not seen any hope for the future of our marriage.  Not one of them mentioned BPD. Help for my wife seems impossible.  It seems that you have not chosen to separate. I am not wanting to separate.  Hard to hang in there.

Tonight was a bad episode of more ripped clothes then a bout of drinking.  This all goes back to a miscommunciation from last Sunday about an event on June 6.  It is going to be a long week.

Thanks again to all who have responded.

UTAH

[GaGrl]

Utah, I've been following your posts.

Find a place to lock up your wardrobe, dude. This is extreme behavior.

My DH tolerated his then-wife's behaviors for many years -- to  include her acting out with affair partners in ways that involved weapons and that got her arrested. But she never destroyed his personal property. This is so personal -- she is transferring hostility from you to an object. The level of anger and hostility is still there -- it's just focused on your clothes rather than so.echo t (your body?) that is not allowed.

[COLB]

Utah,
I have hung in there for good and bad reasons.  My adult children have allot of resentment with my staying.  I can't control that but giving them unconditional love has taught them what is good.  You have to find a way to enforce a boundary with your clothing.  Think through how you can communicate it in a good time.  Having a rough couple weeks here as well.  Find ways to protect yourself .  Write out the pros and cons of how you can protect yourself and find what you think is best.  And if it does not work don't feel bad this is hard.

B