Sudden demand for money

[Oz2016]

Hi Folks,

I've been posting a lot recently but this new incident came just out of left field.

My BPD wife was talking the other day about how we are running out of money. In fact, I don't think we are in any way. She certainly isn't. She has several $100K in the bank, but apparently 'that's different'.

Anyway, I think that divorce is on both of our minds. She was saying the other day that if you can pay for a good enough lawyer you can get anything you want.

Then today all of a sudden she calls me and says that I have to pay her several thousand dollars - basically the medical bills for our second kid's birth. That's not on the face of it unreasonable but it comes like I said just a day or so after this conversation about how good lawyers can get you anything. She then starts talking about other things that she claims I should reimburse her for (like property taxes). I point out that I pay for all the groceries, the mortgage, the internet, the electricity, the water and the gas but apparently because I'm working full time and she's working part time, I should pay for everything even though, as I said, she has several $100k in the bank. I've paid her around $4K already, but I really don't know where I can/should reasonably set limits here. Also, am I paranoid to think she might be trying to bleed me to put her in a better position for pay for lawyers if we divorce? I hope she's not (and maybe this is a sign I may be picking up borderline style thinking myself - if so, please tell me and I'll give myself a good slap on the face!).

Any advice or similar stories welcome.

Best

[Enabler]

I'm in a similar boat of not being able to make a boundary of what is and isn't reasonable expenditure... it's not that I don't know what is and isn't reasonable, it's just that I'm treading a  fine line between fuelling a fire of entitlement, 'I'm a victim' and 'you're abusing me' by policing a healthy boundary, and being outcome orientated and keeping conflict out of the relationship such that we avoid a high conflict divorce with all the trimmings. Similarly my W has money at her disposal, money offsetting our mortgage capital repayments but she'd prefer to ask me directly for more funds. I'd rather that than her start to hack away at the savings as that could be like unplugging a dam.

I have taken to paying things directly as and when I find them reasonable. e.g. in your situation, pay for the medical fees directly.

I did suggest a budge or monthly allowance however she went into victim/child mode and said she couldn't deal with that and in effect shut it down.

Enabler

[Cat Familiar]

Money issues are challenging enough even with emotionally healthy couples, or so I’ve been told as I don’t have any personal experience in this department.

But when feelings equal facts and victimhood rears its head at any moment, having to sort out money issues with a pwBPD is daunting to say the least.

I’d be curious to hear from people who’ve sorted this issue out with their partners and how they accomplished that.

[GaGrl]

My husband is a financial advisor and is a proponent of his, hers, and ours accounts. When asked, this is what he recommends to clients. To do this fairly, however, you need a budget and agreement on what gets paid out of the household/ours account, as well as agreement on how much each partner will contribute based on (say) disparity in income. Then some expenditures are out of the ordinary and need a discussion and agreement (childbirth expenses, a new roof, etc.).

We have the added responsibility of my 93-year-old mom living with us, had a conversation with her on how to pay her expenses, so I'm joint on her accounts. She can't see well enough to write checks or do online banking anymore.

With his BPD ex, DH found that income was "Ex's income is hers, and DH's income is hers" and there was always a cache of cash somewhere -- in her culture, cash and jewelry/23k gold is very important. She has lived with a man for 17 years who doesn't have the combination of her safe. Weird...

[stolencrumbs]

My husband is a financial advisor and is a proponent of his, hers, and ours accounts. When asked, this is what he recommends to clients. To do this fairly, however, you need a budget and agreement on what gets paid out of the household/ours account, as well as agreement on how much each partner will contribute based on (say) disparity in income. Then some expenditures are out of the ordinary and need a discussion and agreement (childbirth expenses, a new roof, etc.).

We have the added responsibility of my 93-year-old mom living with us, had a conversation with her on how to pay her expenses, so I'm joint on her accounts. She can't see well enough to write checks or do online banking anymore.

With his BPD ex, DH found that income was "Ex's income is hers, and DH's income is hers" and there was always a cache of cash somewhere -- in her culture, cash and jewelry/23k gold is very important. She has lived with a man for 17 years who doesn't have the combination of her safe. Weird...

There are lots of things I never really connected with BPD until reading similar things here, but my arrangement with my wife was/is the same as your H had with his BPD ex. There is "our" account, which she spends from freely. And she also transfers money (she doesn't work) into "her" account, which I assume she also spends from freely. She also has her own savings account, and I have no idea how much is in it. None of the money is "mine." We also have a joint savings account, and I was not allowed to take money from it, even if it was for unforeseen problems that affected both of us--medical, house, etc. She, on the other hand, takes from the savings account whenever she needs to. This has been the arrangement for the duration of our marriage.

I'm actually in a similar situation to Oz2016 right now. My wife transferred $5k from our savings account the other day without saying anything about it. I suspect this is somehow in preparation to pay a divorce lawyer, though I don't know that for sure.

[Enabler]

GaGrl, I have suggested your setup numerous times however she’s not been keen and tbh I wasn’t keen on having a joint account with the bulk of the money in. To have this arrangement I feel like there needs to be a comparable measure of ‘need’ vs ‘want’. I believe I am realistic about what I need and realistic about what she needs as well... and the need list is pretty skinny. Most items are ‘wants’. However her definition of need is based on her emotional intensity. She might ‘feel’ like she ‘needs’ a whole new wardrobe and this believe that taking the required funds from the joint account is utterly justifiable however, be utterly objectionary if I were to do the same thing. So how can you share any resources openly with someone whom has an irrational definition of need and want and whom bases their need on emotional intensity... just like a child at a fairground throwing a tantrum because they can’t have a 3rd candy floss? It just doesn’t work.

The solution might be to lower my own threshold for need vs want but frankly household finances have to be a relatively balanced book to avoid financial ruin... and of course financial ruin would be my responsibility.

Full control zero responsibility... that’s their desire.

Enabler

[formflier]

My financial issues with my wife have been going on for a while.  I don't see a way for us to be "happy" about it...but strong boundaries keep it so that financial chaos is limited to a couple hundred bucks here and there.

My wife has her own income that I have little idea how/what she spends it on.

I've also shifted to Enablers stance of paying things directly rather than giving her $$.  Recently she wanted a couple hundred for some supplies...things were busy so I sent her the money.  Couple days later she mentioned she "didn't need" the supplies since she rearranged some things...hmmm.

Money seems to be more emotional for my wife.  I've managed big county and federal budgets and there is always a certain amount of waste or "overhead".  I've put things like my wife not buying the "supplies" in the "overhead" category...just a cost of doing business. 

Otherwise...you start going down the rabbit hole...nothing good is down there.

Oh..and my wife would love for it to be her money is her money and my money is her money.

FF says...no.   No is such a nice word...and  a complete sentence.   

Don't overthink this..just say no.  Move on.


FF

[Enabler]

I feel concerned that my W will use any financial control as justification for labelling me as financially abusive. As a sanity check I googled 'Domestic Financial Abuse' and found this:

https://www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/what-is-domestic-abuse/financial-abuse/

"Financial abuse involves a perpetrator using or misusing money which limits and controls their partner’s current and future actions and their freedom of choice. It can include using credit cards without permission, putting contractual obligations in their partner’s name, and gambling with family assets. [1]

Financial abuse can leave women with no money for basic essentials such as food and clothing. It can leave them without access to their own bank accounts, with no access to any independent income and with debts that have been built up by abusive partners set against their names. Even when a survivor has left the home, financial control can still be exerted by the abuser with regard to child maintenance."

My wife might argue that she is left without "basic essentials"... but her definition of "basic essentials" might also include over 20 pairs of jeans... yes... I counted them. She has her own income, access to significant savings, I provide her with money on request with only cursory questions as to "where did the rest go", and she feels no compunction to pre-clear expenses under £400 or so.

It's good to have a sanity check.

Enabler