Norm for divorce filing.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I filed for divorce on Friday. I hated to do it. My main goal is to get a something ironed out for custody and then I’m willing to place everything on hold for years even, but I hardly see my kids and when things were bad, I hardly got to interact with them in my own house.

When my lawyer put the petition together, it had stuff in there like no maintenance payments and I keep my while 401(k). I have been the provider in the family. My wife has stayed home with the kids. After they all made it into school, she got a part time job. She has taken the kids to dr. Appointments and so on. If it wasn’t for the verbal and emotional abuse she’s done to me in front of them, I’d go on and on for how good of a mother she has been.

So, I don’t plan on fighting maintenance. I told my lawyer this when I saw the petition. I also plan on splitting my 401(k). When I saw all this on the petition, I said something and she just assured me it was legalese. It’s not like I know these things. My wife got really upset. She said her lawyer said this is not standard and that all this does is set up a situation for a messy divorce.

I said something to my lawyer right away, who emailed her lawyer to say something along the lines, “I really didn’t think much about that section, my client plans in taking care of his family.”

Does any of this sound normal? Does this raise any red flags to anyone. I mean listening to what my wife says her lawyer said doesn’t sound like reliable advice, but I am clueless on the legal aspects of this. My wife is much more well versed because of all the friends she’s had who went through divorce.

[Wilkinson]

I filed for divorce on Friday. I hated to do it. My main goal is to get a something ironed out for custody and then I’m willing to place everything on hold for years even, but I hardly see my kids and when things were bad, I hardly got to interact with them in my own house.

When my lawyer put the petition together, it had stuff in there like no maintenance payments and I keep my while 401(k). I have been the provider in the family. My wife has stayed home with the kids. After they all made it into school, she got a part time job. She has taken the kids to dr. Appointments and so on. If it wasn’t for the verbal and emotional abuse she’s done to me in front of them, I’d go on and on for how good of a mother she has been.

So, I don’t plan on fighting maintenance. I told my lawyer this when I saw the petition. I also plan on splitting my 401(k). When I saw all this on the petition, I said something and she just assured me it was legalese. It’s not like I know these things. My wife got really upset. She said her lawyer said this is not standard and that all this does is set up a situation for a messy divorce.

I said something to my lawyer right away, who emailed her lawyer to say something along the lines, “I really didn’t think much about that section, my client plans in taking care of his family.”

Does any of this sound normal? Does this raise any red flags to anyone. I mean listening to what my wife says her lawyer said doesn’t sound like reliable advice, but I am clueless on the legal aspects of this. My wife is much more well versed because of all the friends she’s had who went through divorce.

[livednlearned]

How long have you been married?

How old are the kids?

What plans for the house if you own it?

Where I live, reaching the 10 year mark in marriage seems to be the golden point for alimony. When my ex and I divorced, alimony lasted half the time of the marriage, so 5 years.

Child support continued until son turned 18 (state laws).

I would not go by what your ex is saying. She is likely extremely dysregulated and fueled by emotion that clouds problem-solving and reality testing.

Also, the first offer is usually just an offer. There is room for negotiation. What has her lawyer sent back in response, if anything? I would wait until you saw something in writing, and I would not talk to your wife about what you and your lawyer discuss...

[ForeverDad]

Maintence... your lawyer was perfectly fine to include those references to maintenance and retirement accounts.  The old saying, Don't "Gift Away" whatever leverage you may need later.  (Frankly, when dealing with unreasonable ex-spouses it is often best to hold your cards close and use them wisely to avoid being taken advantage of.  The lawyers know what are normal outcomes.  And the court will bend over backwards to ensure ex gets equitable treatment.  Sorry, guys have to defend themselves.)  It's okay to describe all that as boilerplate which can be evaluated and adjusted later.  Much of this can vary depending on your state's laws.

• Child support... automatic in most cases.  COurts have a formula they often use.  Sure, you could Gift Away more than required but best to stick to the formula for now.
• Maintenance - spousal support during the divorce.  This is not automatic, it may or may not be ordered.
  (not ordered in my divorce)

• Maintenance - alimony post-divorce.  Most states today view alimony more as assistant to the disadvantaged spouse while transitioning from married to single life.  Usually capped at no more than half the length of the marriage and often only a few years.  As I wrote, more states are viewing this as transition assistance.  Sometimes even a couple years at a career center for certification or training is appropriate.
  (mine was an 18 year marriage, after two years in divorce process, and my alimony was for 3 years.

The first two items will surely be addressed at the initial "temp order" hearing.  The last, alimony, may not get addressed until closer to the final decree negotiations.

[livednlearned]

Good point FD.

Maintenance -- spousal support during divorce was not ordered in my case either.

[Wilkinson]

I’ve been married for 17 year. My four kids are 9-15. In my state, maintenance is a formula and for a marriage of 17 years it lasts 12 years, I think unless she gets remarried. If she gets a job and her income changes I can renegotiate at some appropriate time. I’m struggling to take what she says with a grain of salt. She just acts so hurt and I’ve been trying to provide for so long. I’ve really come to grips with how priceless it is to be able to be with my kids during stability and to have a sane environment.

[ForeverDad]

One member has been known to say he knows when his ex is lying - when she opens her mouth.  That's too generalized of a statement but the point is made, unless verified elsewhere you can't trust the claims nor the common innuendos and put-downs.

While divorce is commonly viewed as a poor solution to be avoided, in our high-conflict and dysfunctional relationships that "needed solution" actually is a positive.  Sounds counter-intuitive, right?  But if you can gain some distance, stability and calmness in your life — and the kids too for at least a regular portion of their childhood — then that is for the better.  You will find some recovery by not being exposed to the continual chaos and extreme mood swings on a daily basis.  The children too will henceforth be able to discern more clearly the distinction between your home and hers, your parenting and her parenting, your practical reality and her subjective perception-biased reality.

If you haven't separated yet, ponder various factors before locking yourself into a specific scenario.  Most mothers insist the father move out and, frankly, courts tend to acquiesce and go along with it.  It's less of a legal pressure these days but you may face that.  So how to address that?  Whatever else you do, you need to ensure you always have the ability to house the kids with you.  So no one-bedroom apartments for you, okay?  Or else you'll face a mother complaining your place is too small or legally has too few bedrooms.

One piece of advice is to Let Go the concept that the marital home must be kept by one of the parents.  We all felt that emotional tug, an anchor for us and the kids.  Reality check:  Thousands of people move every day.  Kids aren't traumatized by living elsewhere.  So, Let Go the concept that the marital home must be kept.  If mother can't afford to maintain the home with its expenses, then she will have to find a more affordable residence.  Same for you, if the house plus whatever support you have to provide is too much for you then you too may need to Let Go and find someplace more affordable that won't strain your budget.  Does that help you put things into perspective?  A home is not a structure, it's where you live.

[Wilkinson]

Thank you ForeverDad.  There is a lot that I'm having to Let Go.  First my marriage.  But, yes you're right.  I have a two bedroom apartment.  I know it will be tight when the kids are there, but I'm pretty handy, so I'm building beds, triple bunk beds and stuff with storage to maximize space.  I was going to build some little hideaways and one of the walk in closets can fit a love seat to turn it into a private reading nook.  I'm in contact with a lawyer about what I do.  Since I left, my uBPDw has invited me to the house to see the kids.  She is proposing that rather than move kids from place to place, we switch off being at the house.  We were supposed to do that on a weekend.  Saturday went ok, but Sunday, she got upset at me, had to lecture me for 35 minutes while the kids were waiting to go out for dinner and everything blew up and I was back at my apartment.  So, I'm not sure how well that plan will play out in practice.

[ForeverDad]

Since I left, my uBPDw has invited me to the house to see the kids.  She is proposing that rather than move kids from place to place, we switch off being at the house.  We were supposed to do that on a weekend.  Saturday went ok, but Sunday, she got upset at me, had to lecture me for 35 minutes while the kids were waiting to go out for dinner and everything blew up and I was back at my apartment.  So, I'm not sure how well that plan will play out in practice.

There's a word for that arrangement, I can't recall right now, what comes to mind is helicopter parenting but that's not it.  Anyway, there's two good reasons why it won't work long term.  Hey, it didn't work even the first time you tried it!

First, unless you're independently wealthy, you can't support three homes, one for you, one for her and one for the kids.

Second, despite an order which clearly declares which parent has which time with the kids, it's guaranteed your ex will find some pretext to barge in and take over on your parenting time.  She will find some excuse to keep her items there and keep it "her home" and you the "visitor".  Best to have your home and her home separate and neither of you allowed to cross that Boundary unless there's a real urgency.  Millions of divorced children do fine shuttling between their parents' homes and they're okay.  That concept that the kids stay and the parents pop in and out rarely succeeds and isn't necessary.

[kells76]

nesting

[Kingherc]

I have heard of that working but it takes two emotionally mature and responsible adults who can put the best interests of their kids first. You will not get that with BPD. It’s just asking too much from them and will eventually blow up. I agree a traditional arrangement with two homes is probably best. That is what I am going to be working towards.