Need Advice - Been Discarded

[Pepperoni]

Hello Everyone,

I have a friend who has BPD, diagnosed.

About 4 weeks ago we were out to dinner and we had an argument. Not a fight, just a disagreement, and out of nowhere my friend just got up and walked out.

I didn't want to cause a scene so I let her go.

I tried to call her to see if she was ok, and sent her a text, but she has blocked me on her phone.

This is someone really close to me and it caused me a massive amount of stress. I sent her an email saying I was sorry we had a disagreement and that I may not have taken her sensitivity into account, but I had no reply.

I have been told that I have been ghosted, which I think is right.

Anyone have any advice?

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[Ozzie101]

Hi Anders! Welcome!

Many people here have been ghosted or otherwise given the silent treatment by someone we care about. It's not uncommon at all for a pwBPD to react in this way. But, for the Non, it's a painful situation to be in.

Has this sort of thing happened between the two of you before -- or between her and other friends? How long have you been friends?

[Pepperoni]

We have been friends for about 5 years. The last time we got really emotionally close she ran off to a guy she met online. She disappeared for 18 months and reappeared with a baby. He’s now doing 21 years. It’s a messy bod story.
I have resisted getting physically involved because I recognise the danger, but I really care about her.
Sounds crazy, but I understand the dangers of BPD relationships and I am not sure I could be the other half.
The thing is I am worried about her, Miss her and have all those other emotions.
She may never talk to me again, but I’m feeling worried about her. I feel like an idiot but I can’t switch off my concern.

[Ozzie101]

That's very natural to feel concern for your friend, especially under the circumstances. Just means you're a caring person.

The helplessness is hard to deal with. And it is helplessness because, really, there's little you can do. You can't make her talk to you or get help. What you can do is take care of yourself and keep the door open for her, so to speak. I wouldn't reach out any further. You've done that. Any more attempts and it can cause even more problems. But if you stay open (as in, not blocking her) then, when she comes back to baseline, she might just reach out again and, if it's what you want, you can reestablish a relationship. Accepting that and taking care of yourself can go a long way toward making this period easier.

Is she getting or has she gotten any kind of therapy for her BPD?

[Pepperoni]

I know she is seeing a psychiatrist and a therapist.
One of the things I know about her is that she can distort reality, so her version of events might be completely different. So I am not confident she will tell anyone what really happened. It seems a clear case of splitting. Before the argument she was suggesting we have a baby together, and when I said “hang on let’s not rush into things” she got angry and stormed off. So I have gone from one extreme to another.
( I am a veteran and have really bad ptsd, so I am just holding my own PLEASE READ together. Maybe I could have handled it better ?)
Thanks for the advice, I will keep quiet and keep the door open.
I never realised just how painful the ghosting / silent thing is.

[Ozzie101]

Actually, many other members here have varying degrees of PTSD themselves so you're not alone there. You do have a lot to deal with and, as I said, taking care of yourself is key.

The silent treatment can actually qualify as a form of abuse -- something a lot of people don't realize. It's a very common technique for pwBPD.

I don't know how the discussion went about (what exactly was said and how -- you can share that if you feel like it so we can go over it to get more to the root of things, but that's up to you!) but you were wise to stay away from the baby issue. If you read around the site some, you'll see that that's a recurring theme.

It's all difficult to comprehend and manage, but that's why we're here. I hope you'll keep posting to keep us updated and also read and post in others' threads. There's a lot of very valuable information and support here for you!

[Pepperoni]

Thanks so much. I was kind of feeling alone on this. Most of the advice from friends has been “ you dodged a bullet” and “you don’t deserve to be treated like that”, but that doesn’t stop me from worrying.
I also wonder whether she doesn’t know that I’m feeling bad or whether she is doing it on purpose. I am moving on but still have a bit of anxiety when I think about it. If she gets in contact again do I want to go through this again?
Maybe I need therapy!

[Ozzie101]

How you want to handle it if/when she does contact you again is something you might want to give some serious thought to. Not when you're feeling emotional, though. It needs calm, rational thought.

As for therapy, I and many others here have found it very helpful in walking our own life journeys. We all have our own burdens to bear. Therapy (and the tools here) can help find better ways to carry the load, so to speak. But that's something you would need to decide for yourself.

I don't know if she's doing it on purpose or if she knows how much it hurts you. But pwBPD tend to feel emotions very strongly and tend to act on those emotions more than most. Feelings are the same as facts to them. It's all baffling to a person with a healthier mind.

Have you read much about BPD? We have some excellent articles on this site and there are also some very good books out there. When I was having trouble with my husband (undiagnosed), the book Stop Walking on Eggshells was recommended to me and it was an eye-opener.

[Pepperoni]

I have been reading a lot since the incident, which is what led my to this site.
I have therapy for my ptsd and I will discuss what’s happened when I next see my Dr.
I have been wondering what to do if she re-engages, but when I start thinking about it I tend to think she’s not coming back.
But then again, who knows what she’s thinking.
I really understand how the whole silent/ghosting thing is a form of abuse though. I hadn’t thought of that before.
I am finding a small amount of Valium (prescribed) is helping.
I haven’t been walking on eggshells with this lady before, but I have seen her be psychotic at other people. I guess it was just my turn to get devalued after all these years

[Pepperoni]

Can I ask some advice?

Is it likely she will split me back to white or should I work on the basis that she is gone?

I am sort of feeling that I should just accept she is gone and break the cycle?

I also want to say thanks for the support. It’s been really great. Can’t thank you guys enough.

[once removed]

About 4 weeks ago we were out to dinner and we had an argument. Not a fight, just a disagreement, and out of nowhere my friend just got up and walked out.

what was the argument/disagreement about? what was said before she walked out?

[Pepperoni]

We went out to dinner and went back to my place. She told me she wanted a baby and wanted me to be the father. She then told me that she had feelings for me, and wanted to take our relationship to the next level. This was a lot for me to take onboard, I was processing the information.
I didn’t say no, I said that this was all unexpected and there was a lot to think about. She has a 2 year old from a former relationship.
I said that I thought we should maybe take our relationship to the next step and see how we go, rather than just jumping straight into having a child. I wasn’t opposed to the idea, but suggested taking things one step at a time.
She slammed down her glass, got up and walked out.
That’s pretty much it. I haven’t been able to speak to her since then.

[once removed]

at the heart of BPD is a huge rejection sensitivity, which can include distorted thoughts around that rejection.

so what you intended as a "lets think this through" may have been taken as a rejection of her as a person. humiliation. disgust for her. i know that was the last thing you intended.

this is likely going to be something that she is going to have to sooth on her own.

do you know if youre still blocked? have you tried to contact her since you emailed her?

[Pepperoni]

I am pretty sure I’m still blocked but I haven’t checked because when she is in a rage like this she can be crazy and I don’t want her telling people I am stalking her. (Which she has said about other past boyfriends) I thought I would just wait it out.
I think I understand that she has misinterpreted what I said as rejection / abandonment. (It seems fairly textbook)
 If she does get back in touch I’m not sure how to raise this with her?

[once removed]

If she does get back in touch I’m not sure how to raise this with her?

mostly, listen. let her lead, and vent. ask questions to get a good feel for where shes coming from. mirror back to her that you understand where shes coming from. validate the valid.

she may not raise it, she may prefer not to go down that road. if thats the case, i would follow her lead.

[Pepperoni]

I was thinking today, it’s been four weeks. I don’t think she is coming back and I probably won’t hear from her for years again. I think I need to put this down to experience and start the process of moving on.
Thanks so much for the support guys. I still feel a bit broken hearted but I think I understand what’s happened.
Kinda sucks all round, I have a soft spot for this lady and I’m feeling the hurt but I am trying to let it go. The ghosting really hurts, I think I understand that better too.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Pepperoni-

I am really sorry about the sadness and confusion with your friend.  The ghosting is really difficult.  And yes, PTSD... hard.  I suffer from it too and am getting therapy for mine.

If you can, close your eyes for a minute and imagine if she was holding YOUR baby in her arms and you “made” her angry.  There’s a possibility that she could POOF, disappear.  Anytime.  Over anything.  With your baby.

How much deeper would your pain be today?  Does this help you see any more clearly the risks of possibly catering to her wishes solely to keep peace between you?  To “keep” her in your life?

I know you miss your friend and feel worry for her, but I’m glad you’re here and beginning to understand the complexities of pwBPD.  Her abrupt departure and silence has nothing to do with you.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Pepperoni]

I hadn’t thought of her disappearing post baby but now that I do, I am kind of relieved. That is some brilliant advice.
And, just when I thought things couldn’t get crazier, some guy rings me last night on a no called ID number and abuses me, saying “you should be ashamed of yourself for what you did to her?” WTF!
I am now firmly in the “thank goodness I have dodged a bullet” phase of getting through this.
Thanks once again for the support.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi Pep-

Earlier in your thread, you stated that you were not confident she would tell anyone what really happened.  You see... after the anonymous and abusive phone call last night, you CAN be confident she is distorting the facts of what took place during your last conversation.  And wtf is right!

What did the guy say?  (If you’re comfortable talking about that)...

Tho’ I cannot tell you what to do or not to do, I’m thinking that phone call was to “take your temperature” for her to return. She obviously gave your number to someone to call you.  Use great care if you agree to see her.

IMO, you’ve likely always been very kind and accepting of her.  She disappears, comes back and you welcome her.  Now with 2-year old and baby daddy in jail for a loong time.  So in her head (maybe?) if she proposes a baby with you (oh, by the way her feelings for you are now romantic!); and you can take care of all THREE of them.   Ehhhhh... think good and hard about this situation.  Both eyes open.  A Polaroid family.  Are the intentions above-board and honest?

We have several young men in our community here who’ve become fathers before they were quire ready.  And are paying a lifelong emotional and financial price for these decisions, which weren’t always theirs to make.  Caution, my friend.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Pepperoni]

I totally agree, I’m not having her back in my life.
A friend said to me that she was looking for a mug of instant family, just add Daddy.
I am now at the stage of feeling a bit relieved and quite sad for her.
I have been reading heaps on this site and some others and I think that I have to just let it go, and her.
If she comes back I will wish her well and refuse to see her.
I am lucky she didn’t get pregnant, narrow escape.
I am past the bewilderment and grief, I am seeing things clearly and know what I need to do.
Thanks again for the support

[Pepperoni]

Question?
When a pwBPD does the splitting thing, do they actually forget all the good times they had with the other person and all the good things about the other person?
Also, I am sort of thinking that she probably doesn’t think she has done anything wrong and that it’s all my fault for not agreeing with her?
Do they ever have moments where they think “I did the wrong thing here?”
I ask because I have never had an argument with my friend before and it all seems so out of proportion.

[Red5]

Hello Pepperoni,

*Question?

When a pwBPD does the splitting thing, do they actually forget all the good times they had with the other person and all the good things about the other person?

Yes, I believe so, when you're black you're black… pw/bpd; when dysregulated run off a "defective program" (metaphor)… which is "feelings equal facts" to them… so when you're split 'black', there is no other "purview" to them... although this emotional state of 'black' may not last longer than a few hours, days, or weeks… depending on how far along the timeline of relationship breakdown we are at with them.

*Idealize
*Devalue
*Discard

Yes, when they are raging at us, and devaluing us, they do not remember any "good"… as it doesn't go along with their emotional reasoning, eg' "my feelings are facts"… so bad feelings = bad you (the non).

Also, I am sort of thinking that she probably doesn’t think she has done anything wrong and that it’s all my fault for not agreeing with her?

Correct, yes… she has done nothing wrong in her dysregulated thought processes (negative state mindfulness)… and she will project all her inner negativity onto you… in order to maintain the "control - punish" feelings equal facts frame of mind (negative mindfulness)… pw/bpd has to be right, on top, out front, and in control… or they will implode… sometime to the extent of the destruction, either verbally, or physically of the relationship… there is no talking reason to her when she is in this mode… forget it, engage the tools as best you can… but best to just disengage.

Do they ever have moments where they think (?)… “I did the wrong thing here?”

Perhaps… maybe, at the point of realizing that she has pushed you far away, due to her behavior… and you might leave her resultant (abandonment)… its the same cycle over and over… 'rage-blame-shame-chaos'… and chaos leads right back to rage…

I ask because I have never had an argument with my friend before and it all seems so out of proportion.

There is sometimes an element of 'covert (or sematic) narcissism' in persons with borderline… they may not outwardly attack you (verbally) at first, but as they grow more comfortable with you… this may change… ie' a disagreement then a fight… it may start off with small jabs… a ding here and there, and you will overlook it due to the fact that you are still in "idealization mode"… then it will escalate… you may say something quite innocent… but it will be perceived as "narcissistic injury"… and then they are going to act out .. ie' get up and leave .. walk out… gone~>… borderlines can't handle being "injured", slighted, disagreed with, told they are wrong… as many have traits of narcissism as well .. this is all a defensive mechanism thing with them .. self protect mode… my u/bpd wife has gotten up, and walked out of many restaurants over the years… one time, her entire foo was there… she got angry… got up, and walked out…

The four pillars of dialectical behavior therapy… are;

*mindfulness
*distress tolerance (this one is crucial)
*interpersonal effectiveness
*emotional regulation

Borderlines… depending on the spectrum, waif-hermit-queen-witch, (and comorbidity) left to right… can't do any of these things effectively most times… the worst ones (spectrum) cannot do even one of these at all, and are completely unawares of others feelings, they have no emotional regulatory ability (lability)… "feelings equal facts"… that's it… black and white, all or nothing...

So when she got up, and walked out of the restaurant… she has no ability (cognitive) to regulate (control) her emotions… so they overwhelm her... she could not practice "introspective"… she could not maintain "mindfulness"… she has no ability to regulate (control) her distress tolerance… so "BOOM!"… shame, blame… rage & chaos ~> and so she walked out, "madder than an old wet hen".

Sometimes the tools work (SET), sometimes they don't… depends on how far gone they are in their anger at that moment (feelings equal facts)… best you can do is to set an example... don't enable, don't rescue, don't JADE… have a healthy ration of self care ready at all times… I practice… "don't let her emotional dysregulations effect my own mood, my day, my evening, my weekend"… and that is tough to do.

When you have a "feeling", (an emotion) name that feeling… identify it… and then decide weather or not it is valid… and don't project it onto others… that's being mindful, that's being emotionally regulated.

Usually telling other people your angry at them... or acting out towards them because you are angry at them, or that's just your mood, due to ____… acting out towards others will most times than not… have very immediate, and negative (explosive) results in the short term, not to mention long term damage, and consequences… when your amygdala is in full "fight" mode, learn to "power down", borderlines... mostly, cannot do this.

Hang in there, Red5

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi Pep-

Yes, her reaction WAS out of proportion to what took place.  Her reaction was completely inappropriate to your appropriate response to her suggestion. 

She will likely come back around, not because she specifically remembers all the “good times” you’ve had, but because there’s something “better” about you than other people she’s meeting.  You still meet that thing she’s looking for (provider, really kind, baby daddy).  And when she (probably) does return, there will likely be “Blame shifting”, where you end up apologizing for the fact that she stormed out of the restaurant.  Lots of projecting. 

So please use care.  Because I believe you handled the conversation and situation EXACTLY as any MATURE adult should and would. 

Pep - you clearly deserve a woman filled with compassion who is looking for a give and receive relationship.  Not just a take.  Not just a “what will he do for ME today!”

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Pepperoni]

Thanks, that all makes sense.
I am definitely not letting her back into my life.
Mutual friends are telling me some of the crazy stuff she has been saying about me, so I am kind of relieved that I have met you guys and gotten some independent support.
I showed a mutual friend the sms trail leading to the argument which blew my friend away as it was completely different to what the pwBPD had said.
I kind of suspect she is sabotaging things so there can be no reconciliation, but that’s ok.
If she comes back I will just gently deflect her away with politeness and be kind but unavailable. Thanks guys.

[once removed]

Question?
When a pwBPD does the splitting thing, do they actually forget all the good times they had with the other person and all the good things about the other person?
Also, I am sort of thinking that she probably doesn’t think she has done anything wrong and that it’s all my fault for not agreeing with her?
Do they ever have moments where they think “I did the wrong thing here?”
I ask because I have never had an argument with my friend before and it all seems so out of proportion.

i dont think there is a one size fits all answer to this.

splitting is seeing something or someone in black and white terms - all good or all bad as a means of coping and due to limited executive function. typically, this manifests in short term bursts, for example, if your BPD loved one is especially angry at you, youre "the best person in the world", and when theyre happy toward you, youre "the best person in the world".

Do they ever have moments where they think “I did the wrong thing here?”

yes, of course. what that means in your situation, is anyones guess.

she probably doesn’t think she has done anything wrong and that it’s all my fault for not agreeing with her?

i dont think this is about who she sees as right or wrong or at fault.

from her perspective, she was really sticking her neck and heart on the line. it takes a great deal for someone with BPD to do that, to be vulnerable, or anyone with extreme abandonment and rejection fears.

from your perspective, you were saying "lets take this slow and get our ducks in order." from her perspective, you shut her down, and rejected her. it is out of proportion - people with bpd feel emotions in an extreme way.

her slagging you is her way of coping with those feelings of rejection. her blocking you was a statement: "you cant reject me, im rejecting you". shes hurting, and trying to soothe it.

If she comes back I will just gently deflect her away with politeness and be kind but unavailable. Thanks guys.

i sense from your questions that you are hurting too. i cant imagine it feels good to be misunderstood, lose your friend, or be slagged by her.

what do you think?

[Pepperoni]

This might sound silly, but I really care for my friend and you are right, I’m pretty unhappy about the whole thing. When we were together everything was usually pretty good, so being brutally discarded has hurt a lot.
This whole thing has two aspects to it. The “smart brain” part and the “love brain”. “Smart Brain” says all the logical stuff leading to the conclusion that I shouldn’t be treated badly and don’t need her back. “Love Brain” misses her dreadfully and makes me feel like crap. I know what I have to do, but I still feel hurt and sick with worry, frustration and sadness.
I guess it will pass.
I just wish I had a way of letting her know I didn’t mean to hurt her and say goodbye. That’s the worst part about the ghosting, the lack of closure. So yeah, I know what I need to do, but it hurts a lot.
Thanks for the support.

[Harri]

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