Dealing w/other family members

[Depression = 72% of members]

I went NC with my waif-BPD mom beginning last Thanksgiving, in the past I have gone low-contact, but this time is different, and that desire to give her more chances is done as it involves my children now.

For a while, she respected the boundary that was non-verbally put in place. We had a huge fight, and have not spoken since then. 2 days ago she emailed me from a new email address that I do not have blocked. I did not respond. A day later, my aunt (her sister), who I would like to maintain a relationship with, forwarded the email to me from my mom, saying my mom asked her to do so. My aunt only really knows my mom's side, as I do not put family members in the middle of this. My aunt has always made excuses for my mom when other family members have butted heads with her, so I know trying to have a conversation in regards to my reasons will not go the way I hope. Plus, honestly, it is no one else's business.

My aunt tried to call me a few hours after she sent the email, but I was on a college tour with my son, and I refused to allow this to ruin this pivotal moment in our lives, so I did not answer. I'm not sure how to address this with my aunt? I understand I could ask her to not forward me any correspondence from my mom, but I know that has me coming off looking like the horrible daughter because I'm not going to explain my reasons to her. And I care what my aunt thinks of me.

Previously, during my son's birthday party in my home, my mom texted my uncle (her brother) who was in attendance, to secretly take pictures and send them to her. He did not, and showed me the text, he is more aware of my mother's mental health issues, and her behaviors. I know my mom will not stop trying to invade my life/my children's lives through my aunt. How do I attempt to put a stop to this?

[Irish1477]

I went NC with my waif-BPD mom beginning last Thanksgiving, in the past I have gone low-contact, but this time is different, and that desire to give her more chances is done as it involves my children now.

For a while, she respected the boundary that was non-verbally put in place. We had a huge fight, and have not spoken since then. 2 days ago she emailed me from a new email address that I do not have blocked. I did not respond. A day later, my aunt (her sister), who I would like to maintain a relationship with, forwarded the email to me from my mom, saying my mom asked her to do so. My aunt only really knows my mom's side, as I do not put family members in the middle of this. My aunt has always made excuses for my mom when other family members have butted heads with her, so I know trying to have a conversation in regards to my reasons will not go the way I hope. Plus, honestly, it is no one else's business.

My aunt tried to call me a few hours after she sent the email, but I was on a college tour with my son, and I refused to allow this to ruin this pivotal moment in our lives, so I did not answer. I'm not sure how to address this with my aunt? I understand I could ask her to not forward me any correspondence from my mom, but I know that has me coming off looking like the horrible daughter because I'm not going to explain my reasons to her. And I care what my aunt thinks of me.

Previously, during my son's birthday party in my home, my mom texted my uncle (her brother) who was in attendance, to secretly take pictures and send them to her. He did not, and showed me the text, he is more aware of my mother's mental health issues, and her behaviors. I know my mom will not stop trying to invade my life/my children's lives through my aunt. How do I attempt to put a stop to this?

[Harri]

Hi.

I know my mom will not stop trying to invade my life/my children's lives through my aunt. How do I attempt to put a stop to this?

You can't stop her.     You can request that she not do these things but there is no guarantee she will go along with that request. 
She will act according to her biases, beliefs and thoughts, accept that.   Note: accept does not mean allowing her to interfere with your r/s with you and your kids.   Accept you are both in different places on this issue.  And then decide how to proceed.  The chances of your aunt changing or stopping this behavior are near nil.

I took a look at your previous posts and read this:

Anyways, my aunt told me that it is best that we agree to disagree as she wants us to have a relationship, and she knows everything about my childhood, the fraud my mom has committed, all of the affairs, and everything else my mom has continued to do. But, she is her sister, & she will always love her so I need to learn to forgive so this doesn't keep affecting the entire family.

Can you see a way to make this work for your benefit?  Perhaps accept that your aunt will do what she does and it is simply her way of dealing with things?  I am not saying that you should not be frustrated or take protective measures for yourself and family though.  Boundaries are your best protection here.  Continue to delete the emails without responding.  End the conversations when she tries to make appeals for your mom, and say "I have a very different perspective about and relationship with my mom than you do and I accept that.  Please stop trying to change me." or something that feels right for you.  There are several ways you can do this. 

The uncle who showed you your moms request for pics... is he married to he aunt you are talking about here?  How did you respond to him?

I actually think you are handling things very well:

• I was on a college tour with my son, and I refused to allow this to ruin this pivotal moment in our lives, so I did not answer.
  
• 2 days ago she emailed me from a new email address that I do not have blocked. I did not respond.
• My aunt... forwarded the email to me from my mom, saying my mom asked her to do so. My aunt only really knows my mom's side, as I do not put family members in the middle of this. My aunt has always made excuses for my mom when other family members have butted heads with her, so I know trying to have a conversation in regards to my reasons will not go the way I hope. Plus, honestly, it is no one else's business.

[Irish1477]

The uncle is my mom's brother, so my aunt's brother, as well. When my mom turned her manipulations onto my children, I reached out to him. It was the first time I had ever spoken to anyone else in the family in regards to my mom, but I was at my wits end and didn't know what to do. He quickly validated all of my emotions, fears, childhood, and tears as he too has seen this side of her. He still maintains contact with her, but his husband, does not. I respect his stance, I do not believe I would ever be able to cut my brother from my life, no matter his actions, he is too much like my own child.

The post you referenced is the one time I ever broached the subject with my aunt, and was immediately shut down. So much so I don't even consider it to have been much of a discussion. My uncle warned me it would happen, and it has shaken the previously believed secure attachment I had with her through out my childhood. I want to salvage any relationship I can with her seperate from my mom, but I do not know how to word a response that does not put her on the defense. I was thinking something like this:

Aunt, I am sorry you are being put into the middle of this, it truly is not fair to you. I would like to ask for you to please not forward me any correspondence from my mom. In addition, I know she has asked (uncle) to secretly take photos of us to send to her, please know my family views this as a huge invasion of our privacy, and ask that these lines never be crossed, please. I want a relationship with you, separate from my mom, but that cannot happen if she is using you as a way to stay in my life. Mom sent me that email from a new email address she knew there was no way possible I had it blocked, so why did she involve you in sending it to me, too? I truly don't want anyone else in the middle of this, so please do not allow yourself to be baited into it.

My mom is a waif, she is always the victim...my aunt & I are a lot alike.. very outspoken, and 'strong' women. I cannot help but feel my mom is pitting the two of us against one another, and she thinks we will come to blows and my aunt will fully be on her side. I struggle to say nothing to my aunt about this, because I know how manipulative my mother is. I cannot decide if I leave out the part in bold, or include it?

[once removed]

hi Irish1477,

i think less is probably more here.

just something like:

"mom and i arent getting along at the moment. its complicated, and we are not speaking. i would like to ask for you to please not forward me any correspondence from her in the meantime. thank you for understanding."

what do you think?

We had a huge fight, and have not spoken since then

what happened?

[Irish1477]

You are probably right. It is so difficult not to point out how she is being used, I hate that she is continuing to be manipulated and is a puppet. But, I have to remember it is not my responsibility to protect her.

what happened?

My mom turned her lies & manipulation on my son, it opened my eyes to the fact that as my children have gotten older & developed their own identities/thoughts outside of just being her grandsons, they are now considered fair game to her. I went with the intention to speak with her, calmly, and explain that this NC will not be temporary, but permanent, and while visiting my brother (he lives in same town as her, 6 hours from me), we found out about more ways she is attempting to manipulate and hurt my brother. He is my little brother, & I am the definition of parentified, and when I saw his adult tears, I lost it. He went from my 33 year old brother, to my 5 year old brother who clung to me in fear, and never had a mother he could trust for love. I have 2 boys of my own, and it makes her betraying him that much more personal for me. I stood in her yard, refused to enter her home, and proceeded to scream at her. Not my finest moment, and one I will always regret. I would have preferred to have that moment in my therapist's office, I never want to be abusive, even to my abuser, and in that moment, I was out of control with my words.

I think back to that moment and ponder my differing reactions to my boys being a target, and my adult brother being a target. With my boys, I immediately made a rational decision to remove her permanently from their lives, and had a conversation with them in which I remained completely calm. I had no desire to yell at my mother, but to merely end the relationship respectfully and move on with life.

The moment my brother became involved, and I saw that pain on his face & then him instantly bottle up his emotions, all rational thinking went out the window. I guess it is due to all of the trauma he & I experienced together, and the decades of hell she has put us through. I feel like 12 year old & 16 year old me came out and said the things they never were able to say to her. The mother in me was outraged that a mother could treat her son in this manner continuously, and I refused to stay quiet a moment longer.

This moment truly exemplifies the two differing sides to me. In my adult life, I have done everything a good mother does, I found a wonderful man to marry & have children with. We have provided a safe, loving home for our boys, and live the 'fairytale' suburban life I always dreamed of as a child. But, when my mom becomes involved, I devolve and become someone I do not like. She has always said I have anger issues, but history shows those issues only come into play with her. I used to struggle with this personal view I had of myself being an angry person, and that unfair assessment is slowly being re-written.

[Harri]

Hi Irish.

The uncle is my mom's brother, so my aunt's brother, as well. When my mom turned her manipulations onto my children, I reached out to him. It was the first time I had ever spoken to anyone else in the family in regards to my mom, but I was at my wits end and didn't know what to do. He quickly validated all of my emotions, fears, childhood, and tears as he too has seen this side of her. He still maintains contact with her, but his husband, does not. I respect his stance, I do not believe I would ever be able to cut my brother from my life, no matter his actions, he is too much like my own child.

This right here is a pretty special guy if he can keep things separate in terms of your relationship with your mom, his r/s with you and his r/s with your mom and his sister.  Sounds like he is pretty a pretty centered guy.   

The post you referenced is the one time I ever broached the subject with my aunt, and was immediately shut down. So much so I don't even consider it to have been much of a discussion. My uncle warned me it would happen, and it has shaken the previously believed secure attachment I had with her through out my childhood. I want to salvage any relationship I can with her seperate from my mom, but I do not know how to word a response that does not put her on the defense.

Yes, I too would have been shaken by her comments as well.  I think the part I have trouble with (in terms of what she said) is that you have to forgive your mother for the sake of the family.  That is your choice only to make.  The good news is that you know where she stands and how she will respond.  How can you use that info and change things so that you can continue to have a good r/s with her and do what you feel is right for you?

Is trying to figure out what to say part of that?  Speaking with truth and dignity can be powerful.  I read what you wrote about when you lost your control.  I have been there too and it is not pleasant and not a way I want to respond.  It happened though and you took what you learned and really turned it all around.  That is excellent.

I really like the way once removed simplified what you might say to your mom.  BIFF is best sometimes.  See https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=134124.0 for more info.

Also, you want to be careful of stepping into the drama triangle.  Are you familiar with that?

She has always said I have anger issues, but history shows those issues only come into play with her. I used to struggle with this personal view I had of myself being an angry person, and that unfair assessment is slowly being re-written.

Yes, some situations bring out the worst in us.  I am glad you are changing that view of yourself and you sound committed to getting a handle on that anger you do have.  It comes from working on this stuff, healing, like you are doing here.