My dad was a missionary and was an always-right, all-knowing spiritual leader.

[pursuingJoy]

My dad was a second generation missionary and full blown NPD with cold, psychopathic traits. Using scripture, he painted himself as an untouchable, wise, always-right, all-knowing spiritual leader. Behind this façade, he perpetrated abuse (because wives should be submissive, children should obey their parents, etc). In my twenties I learned that he had adulterous affairs with 20 or more women, some from the youth group. In therapy I learned about NPD. I've discovered that it's not unusual for personality disordered subjects to use religious/faith leadership positions to manipulate others, though of course there are many amazing religious/faith leaders.

I struggled with God for many years. Dad wanted control. God wants us to follow Him. It took me several years to untangle the difference, which boiled down to God's empowerment vs. Dad's stripping of power. I've also struggled to find a church that doesn't pigeon-hole its members. I left my old church and when I returned, I was frustrated to realize that everyone talks and sounds the same. I didn't fit in anymore.

I felt so much guilt for leaving the church. It was not meeting any needs for me, and was increasingly hurtful and frustrating. Recently I've found peace in living my faith. I love God and talk to Him frequently. I am in a season discovering the very real ways in which faith comes to life, where the rubber meets the road. My journey may shift in the future, I may look for another church, but I'm accepting this season for what it is. I wish you peace and success in your journey!

[gotbushels]

I am in a season discovering the very real ways in which faith comes to life, where the rubber meets the road.

I think that was beautifully put. Thanks pursuingJoy.

In my twenties I learned that he had adulterous affairs with 20 or more women, some from the youth group.

I feel appalled by this. I think that's horrific behaviour. I'm very interested in your experience with a father like this. Will you please share in a new thread? I'll open it if you'd like.

[Notwendy]

In ACA groups we also discussed religious abuse- where a parent uses religion to control, manipulate, punish, invoke fear. It sounds like your father did this.

[pursuingJoy]

gotbushels, I'm open to sharing about my experience but am low-tech when it comes to this site.    If you can open the discussion and tell me where to find it I'd appreciate it.

Mod note: Your discussion is now here.

[pursuingJoy]

As requested, sharing more about my experience. Thanks for the tech assistance.  

My father grew up on the mission field. At the time it was common for missionaries to leave their kids in boarding schools for the purpose of focusing on the mission work. After enduring severe sexual abuse at the hands of staff, reporting it to parents who in turn told him to "tell them to stop" and continued spreading the gospel, my traumatized father's development was arrested. He received shock therapy for something during his teen years. I don't know what it was for.

I didn't know any of this. The father of my childhood earned respect, was a great preacher, admired from afar by many, and I desperately wanted his approval. I was a good girl who knew how to get him to pay attention to me. When I was 12 he sexually abused me, but this was so incongruent with everything else I knew about him that I didn't talk about it for 10 years. I found out later the same thing happened to my sister.

Dad and Mom divorced in my early 20's and it was then that I found out about the extensive adultery and his own trauma. Mom asked specifically if he had sexually abused me, or I never would have admitted it.

I married an abuser who was like my dad and in my late 20's went to therapy for the first time. The true image of my father replaced the one he wanted me to see. He was a narcissist who refused accountability from others who might be equals, isolated my mom from family and prohibited friendships, and used cold, threatening silence and scripture to dominate the family. Women were valued as less than men, our value was in childbearing, not careers, and we were told to be submissive. My grandfather used to joke, "Women. You can't live with 'em, you can't shoot 'em."

It left me with a skewed perspective of the world and the church. I struggled to understand the level of evil that he perpetrated on our family and the lies he told churches back home to get money. He took advantage of several girls he knew from the youth group and got one pregnant (maybe a miscarriage?) My mom KNEW about 90% of it and she covered for him. Her home church now venerates her as a long suffering saint and I have such an issue with it. I've struggled to find empathy for her and her experience because her choices left me and my sister defenseless. Most Christians glibly say that the church is full of imperfect people but shouldn't there be an expectation of better behavior, or at LEAST a willingness to explore personality disorders with more than the Bible?

I went NC with my dad in '06. He seems to be doing well, as he married a lady my age and had 3 or 4 more kids. It made me realize that he didn't/couldn't love the way I do. I still ache for the unconditional love of a real dad.

Remove the narcissist and watch the family fall apart. All five of us siblings have reacted differently. My parents divorced 20 years ago but recently one of my brothers who maintains a relationship with my dad held a big family event created a slide show that contained numerous happy pictures of my parents' wedding, noting how happy they looked married. "Look at their smiles!" It was weird. Mom started to date once, but after sending a very timid email to my brothers introducing the idea, and their oh-so-holy responses (quoting scripture prohibiting marriage after divorce unless in cases of adultery), she didn't try that again.

I'd love to hear others experiences or thoughts. Notwendy, yes, it was absolutely religious manipulation.

[No-One]

Hi PursuingJoy:
I'm so sorry for what you have been through with your parents.  I can't imaging how hard it's been for you.

Mom started to date once, but after sending a very timid email to my brothers introducing the idea, and their oh-so-holy responses (quoting scripture prohibiting marriage after divorce unless in cases of adultery), she didn't try that again.

Your father committed adultery several times.  Aren't your brothers aware of that?  Has your mom ever gotten therapy?  I'm suspecting she hasn't.

Do your brothers know that dad molested both you and your sister and the girls in the youth groups?

. . .He took advantage of several girls he knew from the youth group and got one pregnant (maybe a miscarriage?)

. . .Dad and Mom divorced in my early 20's and it was then that I found out about the extensive adultery and his own trauma. Mom asked specifically if he had sexually abused me, or I never would have admitted it. . .

. . .I went NC with my dad in '06. He seems to be doing well, as he married a lady my age and had 3 or 4 more kids. . .
 

Has anyone ever gone to church authorities about the threat your father presents to young girls/women. Does his current wife have any idea that he is likely to molest his children in his current family?

Your mom let you down, by not protecting you and knowingly turning a blind eye to what was happening to her own daughters and to other girls/women in the church.  Shame on her. 

I'm guessing that no one ever went to the police, and he has gotten away with abusing girls for many years.  Have you and/or your sister thought about taking some steps to prevent your father from harming any more girls? I know it would be a hard thing for you to do, but you could be saving other girls/women from the torment you have been through.

[pursuingJoy]

My brothers are aware of the adultery and abuse. It’s like they overlook the facts and just hear my dad’s voice ringing, even 20+ years later. Mom did go to therapy for a very short while.

The youth group girls were older teens/early 20's when it happened and the country doesn’t have laws in place to prohibit consensual sex. After they divorced, Mom found out he was part of a church and she contacted the leadership there. She also contacted both of the women she knew he was with to let them know about his history. All were dismissive (I guess they figured it was slander from a woman scorned), although I’ve always felt better knowing she alerted them and perhaps it led to important decision-making later. At least she took this step to protect others.

[gotbushels]

Hi pursuingJoy   

Wow that is a stunning background—I'm so glad that you seem to have found peace and have found ways to make life work for you. I haven't much else to say, but I do support you here—and congratulations on coming this far from such difficulty.

Pleasant week to you, I look forward to what others have to say here and getting to discuss it more with you.   

[pursuingJoy]

I appreciate your encouragement, gotbushels. After reading about scapegoating, I'm feeling blessed I was able to break away from the family system and discover something meaningful. So glad to have this forum of supportive people with powerful stories.

[No-One]

Hi again, Pursuing Joy:

The youth group girls were older teens/early 20's when it happened and the country doesn’t have laws in place to prohibit consensual sex. After they divorced, Mom found out he was part of a church and she contacted the leadership there. She also contacted both of the women she knew he was with to let them know about his history. All were dismissive (I guess they figured it was slander from a woman scorned), although I’ve always felt better knowing she alerted them and perhaps it led to important decision-making later. At least she took this step to protect others.

What Country's laws apply?  I'm glad that your mom made the effort to protect others, if not you and your sister.  

My brothers are aware of the adultery and abuse. It’s like they overlook the facts and just hear my dad’s voice ringing, even 20+ years later. . .recently one of my brothers who maintains a relationship with my dad held a big family event created a slide show that contained numerous happy pictures of my parents' wedding, noting how happy they looked married. "Look at their smiles!" It was weird.

How many brothers do you have? Do you think that any/all of your brothers are apt to carry on your father's narcissism, adultry and sexual abuse? Sounds like the brother with the slide show drank the coolaid?

Women were valued as less than men, our value was in childbearing, not careers, and we were told to be submissive. My grandfather used to joke, "Women. You can't live with 'em, you can't shoot 'em."

I've discovered that it's not unusual for personality disordered subjects to use religious/faith leadership positions to manipulate others, though of course there are many amazing religious/faith leaders.

It's unfortunate that some church leaders (and members) focus on passages that support their personal agenda, while ignoring other bible passages. When interpreted alone and emphasised alone, many Bible verses can be used by abusive people for harm.  

Did your father have a college degree in theology?  I know that there are some church leaders who evolve in the church, by learning informally from others.  Sometime, I wonder if informally taught Christian leaders are more vulnerable to becoming abusive leaders, that abusive doctrine can be passed on to them directly by other leaders (as opposed to achieving a formal academic degree).

I hope that some day you can find a church that you feel comfortable in.  What can, also, be important is to have a partner with whom you can have a mutually healthy understanding of the Bible and that this understanding enhances your relationship. Do you have that with your husband?

Most Christians glibly say that the church is full of imperfect people but shouldn't there be an expectation of better behavior, or at LEAST a willingness to explore personality disorders with more than the Bible?

I agree that you can't treat personality disorders with Bible study.  I see that as a flaw in some Christian churches, who have a philosophy that all answers are in the Bible and that a psychologist can lead you astray.

Do you view the situation with your father as being similar to the sexual abuse in the Catholic Church?  

I know that all sins are to be considered equal, but I have to look at the things your father did as being a greater sin (my personal value).  A church leader needs to be held to a higher standard and lead by example, NOT sin by example.

[Turkish]

pJ,

I'm so saddened that you endured all of this. 

Spritual abuse, and physical abuse, is a huge problem, and it's as bad in protestant circles despite the RCC getting more scrutiny. Potter's Field Missions was recently and quickly disbanded... shamefully, only after the granddaughter of a Calvary Chapel leader talked to him about the verbal abuse... screaming for hours at interns, NPD like guilt, cutting off kids (young adults, but still kids) from families, shunning, labor law violations. It took over 20 years for things to come to a head! Many were shamed and ignored, those brave enough to raise questions.  Many former interns likened it to a cult.

It goes back to church culture which enables this, and the pew sitters who make and drink the koolaid. It is enabled by families who desire (and practice) sacrifice rather than mercy, the opposite of what God said.

Who are "the least of these?" Children! And those who can't advocate for themselves.  Also:

1 Timothy 5:8 If anyone does not provide for his own, and especially his own household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

What is "the faith?"

John 15:13 New King James Version (NKJV)
13 Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.

Failing to provide for and protect one's household,  and using others to satisfy sick fantasies and sins, is absolutely disgusting. Even more so that those in church communities enable it, implicitly or explicitly.

[pursuingJoy]

What Country's laws apply?  

Everything happened in a 3rd world country in South America where the age of consent is 13.  (Not trying to be vague, I just appreciate a level of anonymity on this public forum. If you want more details, is there a way to send you a personal message?)

How many brothers do you have? Do you think that any/all of your brothers are apt to carry on your father's narcissism, adultry and sexual abuse? Sounds like the brother with the slide show drank the coolaid?

I have three brothers and I've spoken to all three about what happened. As in many families with emotional/spiritual/sexual abuse there was definitely a permissive attitude that they bought into. They were caught peeking when my sister and I showered. Two have apologized and I sense a genuine understanding of the wrong that was done. You are correct: the brother with the slide show is one that I am still concerned about. I've not noticed or heard of anything specific that I could address, but I am on high alert when I'm around him. My kids are not allowed to be around him alone. I've told my mom and I've told him. Mom tried once to just override my boundary to not let my kids go to my brother's house, but I put my foot down. The fam thinks I overreact but I don't care. There is something 'off' about him and I'm trusting my intuition.

Did your father have a college degree in theology?  I know that there are some church leaders who evolve in the church, by learning informally from others.  Sometime, I wonder if informally taught Christian leaders are more vulnerable to becoming abusive leaders, that abusive doctrine can be passed on to them directly by other leaders (as opposed to achieving a formal academic degree).

He sure did. Degree, ordained, formal training. I've still to meet someone that knew the Bible and theology the way he did. He was incredible intelligent and smart with many things. In line with what you're saying though, the biggest red flag with him was a refusal to accept accountability or leadership. He left the mission he went overseas with and started his own mission. He was always in the highest positions of leadership at churches we attended. He knew how to make others feel small with his knowledge of scripture, which boosted his status. Many Christians second guess their intuition and feelings and override them with Bible verses, which makes them easy to manipulate.

I hope that some day you can find a church that you feel comfortable in.
 

Me too!

What can, also, be important is to have a partner with whom you can have a mutually healthy understanding of the Bible and that this understanding enhances your relationship. Do you have that with your husband?

100%. We are on the same page as far as our faith and religious journey. I feel very validated in my walk with God, but not pressured to be or think or do. We're figuring it out together. Thanks for the reminder of this blessing!

[pursuingJoy]

I'm so saddened that you endured all of this. 

I appreciate your sentiment. It was tough to go through, oddly even more difficult emotionally to process later in life. I do feel blessed to have been hurt enough that I could get away. Some people get sucked back into the vortex.

Spritual abuse, and physical abuse, is a huge problem, and it's as bad in protestant circles despite the RCC getting more scrutiny. Potter's Field Missions was recently and quickly disbanded...

I'd never heard of Potter's Field so I did some research. It's a sad, repetitive story. Many Christians I know are so quick to dismiss real world, proven business practices, psychology and common sense.  A lot of the issues I observed on the mission field were due to a lack of accountability, manipulation of scripture, and a desperate desire to be seen as 'in the world but not of it' - ie, above it. Shame was used perversely to keep people in their place and to perpetuate unhealthy cycles. I discovered Dan Allender's book Bold Love and the concepts changed my entire perspective. Even then, I heard voices telling me I was selling out, cheapening my faith...while at the same time I knew, intuitively, that this was chapter two of my faith journey, like eating meat after only drinking milk.

Failing to provide for and protect one's household,  and using others to satisfy sick fantasies and sins, is absolutely disgusting. Even more so that those in church communities enable it, implicitly or explicitly.

Yes. My thoughts exactly. And the scripture you quoted is perfect. One of my biggest issues with the Church is misuse and selective use of scripture. From the time I woke up to the time I went to bed, my dad lived and breathed "women submit." One day when I was 16, Koolaid brother told me that I didn't do a good job submitting and I should practice with him. Even having tasted the Koolaid, I laughed and said no. When I was divorcing my abusive husband years later, this same brother told me, "It doesn't matter if he's beating you, you should stay and pray that it gets better." Obviously a crappy thing to tell your sister, but darn it still hurt to hear it.

I never thought anything was really wrong with my family but for some reason, I decided to leave home at 17 and came to the US to study. I'm so thankful that I got away.

[gotbushels]

I went NC with my dad in '06.

pursuingJoy what drove this? What was your thought process?



So I really feel tremendous anger when I considered your father's behaviour. Simply put, it seemed that he used scripture to prefer his pursuit of pleasure.

To embellish, it seems that he was placed in a position of authority with a church and he was given relatively large blessings of knowledge—then he exploited those two gifts to take advantage of young women. Of course, I'll account for there being dozens of possible reasons why things happened the way they did—why were the women complicit, what was their interest, etc. That said, I'd then like to remind us here, "By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?" (Mat7:16). Then in a BP management context—we know being SO's here that a person's behaviour, actions, and manner of doing are all better indicators of intention and underlying character than a person's words. I think this is even more crucial when a person lacks integrity. Therefore, regardless of what mandate or strategy the church groups had, this church youth leader—your father—used his position to enjoy sexual acts with these women.

Moreover, what I find abhorrent is the implied usage of scripture to obtain his pursuit of pleasure. Scripture usage is integral to youth groups, and I'm sure in your father's church's case—they weren't exceptions. One of scripture's purposes is to edify believers. For a church leader to use scripture to pursue adulterous sexual acts with (young) women in church groups—it seems to me—is therefore a form of blasphemy. My reasoning is as follows; "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven." (Mat12:31NASB). I refer to blasphemy here in the meaning of speaking (teaching in youth groups) in misuse (to pursue sexual relationships with members) of a sacred text (the bible). I'm not a priest or pastor—so those are just my thoughts on why anger here seems justified.


Moving forward, so I noticed a lot of jumping to judgment when it comes to extreme sin. One the one hand, we're called to be good judges, "The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments," (1Cor2:15) and yet a huge amount of what we learn about practically managing BP's is to let go of your judgments.

Did you find some way to reconcile the two opposing ideas? If anyone else has a view or solution about this—I'm interested in your thoughts.   

[pursuingJoy]

pursuingJoy what drove this? What was your thought process?

I'd been on LC with my dad (and in therapy for a good while) when I decided to confront him about the sexual abuse. His condescending attempt to shame me back into being controlled sealed the deal for me. I realized that he wasn't capable of loving me as a father should love a daughter. NC just happened. It wasn't a huge decision, there was no announcement, he didn't question or fight it. It was just the next step. 

My understanding of judgment and 'types' of sin was shaped largely by Dan Allender's Bold Love. Doesn't do it justice but I found a quick write up: https://sacredstoryministries.org/loving-an-abusive-person/

Allender addresses harmful Christian ideals of "no judgment" by breaking down bad things people do into three major categories (evil, foolish or normal sin) and comes at it from the perspective of loving each, because love looks different for each person. Evil people (my dad) are cold, hard, destructive, and they strip hope. Victims must be willing to lose the person, willing to face shame and hatred, willing to set parameters. Evil people must be confronted, and this is a gift of love because it provides the opportunity to experience brokenness, healing and repentance.
 

So I really feel tremendous anger when I considered your father's behaviour.

My pastor (also my counselor) expressed anger at how I was treated, and his anger was key to changing my ideas about God. I realized that God, too, was angry about the things that had happened to me. God honored my courage to face reality, which opened up the opportunity to enter into a more genuine relationship with Him, and came to my defense. Things fell into place and I felt His love and care in a way I'd never felt it before. Until that point, I was emotionally dead about my experiences and emotions.

Moreover, what I find abhorrent is the implied usage of scripture to obtain his pursuit of pleasure.

I don't know that his actions were a pursuit of pleasure in the normal sense. I don't think my father feels pleasure. He feels emptiness, anger, loneliness. He is a very dead person emotionally, which carries a sadness all its own. I don't think he feels anything but a desire to control and the ability to manipulate, and I think it stems from his own severely abusive childhood. At the root of any sexual abuse is the desire to dominate and control. It had little to do with pleasure.

"By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?" (Mat7:16). Then in a BP management context—we know being SO's here that a person's behaviour, actions, and manner of doing are all better indicators of intention and underlying character than a person's words.

Yes to this. Cross referencing words and actions has become enormously important to me, to the point that I've been accused of being mistrustful when I don't just take someone's word for it.

Did you find some way to reconcile the two opposing ideas?

I'd love to hear what others think too. Dan Allender's books The Wounded Heart and Bold Love helped me understand what it means to truly love someone with a personality disorder. It starts with acknowledging the truth (which usually starts by acknowledging our own faults and sins) and it takes a great deal of courage. It requires judgment, good judgment, that comes from a place of love.

Great questions. I appreciate y'alls curiosity and thoughts.