After 8 years I ended up with another BPD - it seems - why does this repeat?

[FarewellTransmis]

Hi guys,

About 8 years ago, in grad school I had lived with a woman that had BPD. The relationship was hard and difficult in so many ways. It really stayed with me and deeply affected me for years afterwards.

This year I fell in love quickly with another woman. I rarely fall fast and hard, so it felt very special to me. She was vibrant. She claimed we were soul mates. She wanted to move in with my very quickly. She believes she has an illness that's reality is debated in medical communities, "chronic Lyme disease." Part of why she wanted to move in to me was to make her treatments easier and to not travel so much.

Shortly after she moved in I noticed she would begin to twist my words and I was often defending myself when I felt like I had the best of intentions. I really felt like I loved her. I am also trained in modalities like conscious communication and use them in my relationships. I am always willing to look at my own shadow and places where I could grow. Something suddenly was triggered in me. So much of her behaviors, even little idiosyncracies reminded me of this other woman from 8 years ago who had BPD! I suddenly started to see her differently and be very afraid. She is extremely sensitive to changes in my energy and of course noticed this immediately. I started to question her illness and diagnosis and learned that Chronic Lyme as opposed to regular Lyme (though it might be real) is not recognized by the mainstream medical establishment and there's no concrete evidence for it.

I started to bring my doubt in a kind and conscious way and ask questions. Immediately she began to get very defensive. She jumps to defensiveness very quickly. We have broken up twice now, and she moved out twice. Our conflicts seem to devolve into a bad downward spiral. I am also the leader of a meditation community. She ended up sending out private messages to 100 people in this community about how she needs help and that she could die if she doesn't get help (from her Lyme - which doesn't kill anyone reportedly) and needed money to afford her expensive treatments. She also wrote a long paragraph about me and how bad I had been to her. In my mind I had been very good to her - we just hadn't navigated our conflicts very well. This brought me a lot of fear about my reputation.

I still forgave her and let her come back into my life. However, a friend had breakfast with me recently (one of the ones who received her SOS message) and said that he thinks she has Borderline. I was shocked! This was something at the back of my mind I had been afraid of and now here was another party bringing it forward. It was too difficult now not to look at and I had an ominous feeling about it. Afterwards, in a way I probably shouldn't have, I told her that I think she might have this personality disorder. It was not taken well, as you can probably imagine. She wanted to know who had spoke to me, wanted to explain that the mental health field is a sham, and that men always call women crazy when they don't want to look at their own PLEASE READ. She threatened to turn it on me and call me a narcissist. I don't think I am a narcissist but I am willing to look at it if I am. I am open to those kind of explorations.

Later that day she had one of her "Lyme storms" in public - and I didn't take care of her quite in the way she wanted. Since then she has distanced herself from me and asked for space. Though I feel a bit more lonely, I also feel a lot of relief.

This relationship has made me stretch and look at myself in ways I could never imagine.

What do I really believe about mainstream medicine?
Why have I dated multiple people with BPD? Am I the one with the problem? Am I projecting it on them?
Does this woman actually have BPD or am I project my past trauma of dating someone with BPD onto her?
If both these women have been BPD's, why am I so attracted to them and why are they attracted to me?
How hard should I look at myself? And how hard should I look at my SO?

Anyways, I am looking for feedback to any of these questions. Also I am wanting to leave the relationship. I am wanting to do so in a way that will be the most quiet and create the least amount of drama. I am looking for any kind of advice or feedback. Maybe you see something in my story that I should look at more closely. Maybe you think I have it all wrong and she's not BPD at all. I am grateful to you all for being there and for whatever you think.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[FarewellTransmis]

I apologize - realizing I didn't write pwBPD in the post. I do not wish to dehumanize her in any way.

[Enabler]

Hey Farewell Transmis,

Attracting multiple pwBPD is not uncommon and the boards here are littered with multiple people who have been in relationships with more than one person with BPD or suspected BPD. Yes, it could be your twist on a relationship that’s evolved but then again it could be a set of traits that are ringing alarm bells through past experience. You sound like you’re pretty in touch with yourself and a deep thinker given they work you’re involved in, however your deepness, kindness and general sensitivity could well be what leads you to attract ‘needy people’. One potential thing to look at might be the good feeling you get from helping people. Do you get that white knight feeling when you’re coming to the rescue of the fare madden? Would you call yourself a rescuer?

I did a little google search on chronic Lyme disease (after googling Lyme disease)... and interestingly it said don’t confuse with Lyme disease!  I’m no doctor and I wouldn’t want to jump to any conclusions BUT, what are the symptoms your GF gets when she has an attack? Specifically are there any external signs of the attack. I will be honest and say up front that I’m coming from the point of showing her the BS card. Yes, that’s presumptuous but given other factors you have mentioned I would act with caution to believe her diagnosis and the fact that the attack came on after you suggested she may have a PD is ummmmmm interesting timing.

Enabler

[FarewellTransmis]

Hi Enabler,

Thank you for your valuable feedback. It has me feeling less alone in all of this like someone understands.

She has received her 'Chronic Lyme' disease diagnosis from naturopaths. They were not real doctors, more like wholistic health professionals. She doesn't believe in mainstream medicine. She identifies very strongly with this illness and it's a huge part of her identity and how she navigates the world. She eats a specialized diet, and does wholistic treatments - everything from colonics, to detoxes, to taking Frog Poison from the amazon.

Chronic Lyme is a huge debate (much like the anti-vaxxer debate) and there is a lot of overlap with anti-vaxxers. It is also laden with conspiracy theory and my SO w/ uBPD believes in much of these conspiracy theories. It's been a hard place for me to go with her. I had suspected her symptoms were real but never quite believe in the Lyme. I, of course, can't tell her that because she get's very upset. It's such a strong part of how she identifies.

There are no outward signs of the Chronic Lyme - everything could in theory be 'acted out'. I thought for a long time it might be something psychosomatic like fibromyalgia. She actually thinks fibromyalgia is what the Western medical establishment calls Chronic Lyme!

She describes herself as an 'orchid' needs a lot of special care, but also likes to caretake others. She was fired from caretaking a woman with Parkinson's recently. She claimed it was because the woman's husband was senile - but I think it had more to do with her getting overly invested in this woman and trying to get her to stop taking medication and change her lifestyle. Now she is obsessed with the idea of a new job, to work for this entrepreneur in our community and has made this woman's picture her phone background. It creeped me out a bit the way she obsesses and latches onto certain people.

Anyways - I hope this has shed more light on my situation. For a while she got me to blame myself and think I was the problem - I don't think that is true now - I think I wanted her back enough that I was willing to buy into that narrative. There are ways I could have been better. But for the most part it was an impossible situation.

We are in similar communities together, and I fear the feelings I will feel when I see her with someone else. I don't know if I should hide/isolate or keep going to my events.

Any and all responses to this are really valuable to me.

- FarewellTransmission

[Cat Familiar]

I’ve married two BPD husbands, so don’t criticize yourself.   I’m wondering if you had a parent or a sibling who had BPD. Many of us who did are “comfortable” with BPD behaviors that would send others fleeing for the door.

Since you will likely be interacting with her in the future, I’m going to relocate your thread over to the Bettering board. There you will learn strategies to defuse situations and keep things calmer when you cross paths with her.

[ColdKnight]

Both of you are brave souls. I find myself wondering if I will ever be able to open up to another woman at all much less pwBPD. Having never heard of BPD before my experience with my xgf I fell hook line and sinker for all of the tricks. I feel like I will always be ever vigilant for BPD traits from here on out.

Maybe time will change me...

[kittykay]

Why have I dated multiple people with BPD? Am I the one with the problem? Am I projecting it on them?

I'm pretty sure that my ex had uBPD and my current partner has dBPD. I would describe myself as a very sensitive person, I also suffer from anxiety. I also have the tendency to think and feel deeply, to want to grow and look at myself honestly. And I've also trained in conscious communication.

So I totally believed that my current partner wanted to live mindfulness and conscious communication with me, that he had chosen to be with me for this reason. And when things started going into complete emotional turbulence I doubted myself A LOT. I completely trusted his judgment and completely did not listen to myself. So when he suggested that I may have BPD, I believed it could be true, I even got treatment. Until I realized that what I was suffering from was PTSD from the last two years of emotional rollercoaster and being blamed for all kinds of things that I half-believed even though I knew they weren't true. I realized that my main issues are anxiety and codependency. And when I started to work on that (along with some other life changes) I began to feel much much better. The incredible stress I had felt (heart palpitations for about three months) began to subside. I could see myself with more kindness, and begin to understand that no matter what my pwBPD does, I can always return to what is important to me, what my values are.

So why am I telling you this? I had the idea that perhaps you may be in a similar boat. Pema Chödrön says there is compassion and there is idiot compassion. Idiot compassion is not setting boundaries when it's necessary. Basically it's enabling by giving someone what they want because you don't want to see them suffer. And maybe also because you don't want to take full responsibility for what is important to you (i.e. because you don't want to suffer).

What about you? What's important to you? After a lot of "looking hard at myself" I've come to realize that those are the important questions. It's being honest with myself and asking myself what I need in every moment. And that I can also treat myself with kindness and compassion. I'm reading Chödrön's "The Wisdom of No Escape" at the moment and can really recommend it. Any of her teachings really.

Sounds like a good and clear decision that you want to end the relationship. It sounds like there's plenty of reasons for you to want to do so. And maybe it's a good idea to accept that there probably will be some drama and to check with yourself how you want to deal with that.

I hope I've been somewhat helpful. That's coming from my experience of having learned the hard way

Wishing you courage and strength.

 

[Enabler]

FT,

Have you heard of the Karpman drama triangle? I’m on a tiny iPhone at the moment but look in the tools section above and there’s an article on it. The basics are that there are 3 nodes to drama, rescuer (you), perpetrator (your GF paints you as this player, and victim (your GF). Your GF identifies herself as a victim in any situation, potentially in everything she does. The chronic Lyme disease being a function of this victimhood  potentially. When you told her that she might have a personality disorder her reaction was to try desperately to reclaim the position of victim where maybe historically you had come to her rescue. It’s just a theory but she seems pretty darn keen to pop herself back in this space.

A good article on the karpman triangle will come up if you google ‘three faces of a victim’.

The chronic Lyme disease is a good one in a way... you can’t disprove it, but she can’t prove it either... and she can’t recover from it.

Enabler

[Jareth89]

I’ve married two BPD husbands, so don’t criticize yourself.   I’m wondering if you had a parent or a sibling who had BPD. Many of us who did are “comfortable” with BPD behaviors that would send others fleeing for the door.

Since you will likely be interacting with her in the future, I’m going to relocate your thread over to the Bettering board. There you will learn strategies to defuse situations and keep things calmer when you cross paths with her.

Cat, what bpd behaviours did you see in your husbands before you actually married them? Did you find that the behaviours became more obvious/worse after marriage and this is when you realised they had bpd? Did you see any noticeable bpd behaviours in the early stages of the relationship?

[Cat Familiar]

I was really young and inexperienced when I married my first husband, so I would not have recognized BPD behaviors. I was surprised when he first raged and destroyed a wooden sculpture he had made and loved. Who does that? It was irrational, but he claimed that I made him do it because he was so mad at me.

Both husbands love bombed me in the beginning, but I just mistook that for being in love.

After both realized they had caught me, hook, line, and sinker, yes the BPD behaviors increased.

[AskingWhy]

She has received her 'Chronic Lyme' disease diagnosis from naturopaths. They were not real doctors, more like wholistic health professionals. She doesn't believe in mainstream medicine. She identifies very strongly with this illness and it's a huge part of her identity and how she navigates the world. She eats a specialized diet, and does wholistic treatments - everything from colonics, to detoxes, to taking Frog Poison from the amazon.

Chronic Lyme is a huge debate (much like the anti-vaxxer debate) and there is a lot of overlap with anti-vaxxers. It is also laden with conspiracy theory and my SO w/ uBPD believes in much of these conspiracy theories. It's been a hard place for me to go with her. I had suspected her symptoms were real but never quite believe in the Lyme. I, of course, can't tell her that because she get's very upset. It's such a strong part of how she identifies.

Farewell, mental illness is quite often associated with physiological illnesses.  Very few doctors recognize this.

Do not quickly dismiss your partner for trying to find answers to her issues.  Often alternative treatments, dismissed by mainstream medicine (which is governed by insurance and big pharma) can provide relief, cure or good management.  Sadly, this area is ungoverned and it's hard to tell the sound practitioners from the quacks.  (Try looking at integrative and holistic doctors--especially M.D.s--or those who practice "functional" medicine.  In the end, your partner must decide what is sound medical treatment.)

You might want to see this link:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=122720.0

That said, your partner may be deriving some benefit from her illness.  She may be using it as an excuse to avoid facing her real issues and her R/S with you and others.  The illness, even when legitimate, can be used as a crutch.  

As for attracting several BPD partners, this is common.  In psychology, it's called a "repetition compulsion."  

The quick involvement ("love bombing") is common in R/S of BPD and NPD because those people see in us a need for acceptance and connection.  Oddly enough, many NPDs seek out the insecurity of BPDs.

BPDs often find partners who are NPD (who will abuse them) or codependents/enablers (whom the BPD will abuse.)

My X H was uBPD and my currrent one is also uBPD.  Both are highly functioning and in good jobs in technical fields.  They are "atypical" and very functional, unlike BPDs who have suicidal ideations and are nearly incapacitated with their condition.  People and family of these "high functioners" are shown a "good face" while partners suffer horrible emotional or physical abuse at home:  holes punched in walls, nearly weekly divorce threats, insults and name calling of the worst kind, infidelity, etc.  

It's all projection of my current H for his unhappy childhood at the hands of a uNPD F who preferred his brother over him.  His mother, also abused, was the enabler who, surprisingly, thought she had the most loving, care H in the world.  (She was also abused as a child.)  He has never cheated on me, but he is enmeshed with his adult children to the point they are all like mistresses to him, dictating which color of car he should be, having private holidays with him, demanding he divorce me and so on.  (All of them are in some NPD or BPD spectrum with homelessness, drug abuse/alcohol, promiscuity, loss of jobs, and suicide attempts.)

Farewell, don't blame yourself for your past R/S, but now you have awareness to deal with your current R/S or those in the future.  This is empowering knowledge.

 

[Jareth89]

I was really young and inexperienced when I married my first husband, so I would not have recognized BPD behaviors. I was surprised when he first raged and destroyed a wooden sculpture he had made and loved. Who does that? It was irrational, but he claimed that I made him do it because he was so mad at me.
Both husbands love bombed me in the beginning, but I just mistook that for being in love.
After both realized they had caught me, hook, line, and sinker, yes the BPD behaviors increased.

Do you think that the bpd's consciously hold back their bpd behaviour until as you put it 'they have you hook line and sinker'? When was that point, at marriage or would you say before? Does security in a relationship (marriage, children) trigger worsening of bpd behaviour? Did you find that once the behaviours worsened that it was a turning point and there was no going back, like bpd had been fully 'let loose'? Last question, did you find that as time went on the rages/emotional abuse got worse and did he ever try to isolate you from friends/family?

[AskingWhy]

Do you think that the bpd's consciously hold back their bpd behaviour until as you put it 'they have you hook line and sinker'? When was that point, at marriage or would you say before? Does security in a relationship (marriage, children) trigger worsening of bpd behaviour? Did you find that once the behaviours worsened that it was a turning point and there was no going back, like bpd had been fully 'let loose'? Last question, did you find that as time went on the rages/emotional abuse got worse and did he ever try to isolate you from friends/family?

My second uBPD H started showing his true colours about six months into the marriage.  That's about the time span mentioned by Bill Eddy.  The smallest dissatisfactions sent him into a rage.  I am convinced my second H is acting out the rage he feels toward his  X W who is uNPD.  While he was overseas in the military, she found a lover (who was also married.)  When he returned, she divorced him to marry her lover, who divorced his wife.  She took the all the children out of state, then used visitations as a weapons against her X.

In my experience, my H projects his rage toward his uNPD X W and uNPD father against me.  Whenever he is unhappy, he uses me as his emotional punching bag.

[Cat Familiar]

Do you think that the bpd's consciously hold back their bpd behaviour until as you put it 'they have you hook line and sinker'?

Yes. Not out of malevolence or plan, but rather because they now feel more secure and can let the mask slip.

When was that point, at marriage or would you say before?

Some slippage before marriage, most after.

Does security in a relationship (marriage, children) trigger worsening of bpd behaviour?

Yes, in my experience.

Did you find that once the behaviours worsened that it was a turning point and there was no going back, like bpd had been fully 'let loose'?

No. There were nice times occasionally in my first marriage, though he was extreme—multiple infidelities, physical, verbal, and emotional abuse, financial irresponsibility, drug use, etc.

My second husband has traits, but not full blown BPD, so things can seem normal for extended periods of time, now I understand how not to react in a way that makes things worse.

Last question, did you find that as time went on the rages/emotional abuse got worse and did he ever try to isolate you from friends/family?

Yes for #1 and no for #2.

[AskingWhy]

Pema Chödrön says there is compassion and there is idiot compassion. Idiot compassion is not setting boundaries when it's necessary. Basically it's enabling by giving someone what they want because you don't want to see them suffer. And maybe also because you don't want to take full responsibility for what is important to you (i.e. because you don't want to suffer).
 

I know well idiot compassion because I have been a practitioner of it!  I was too willing (guilt?) to give others the benefit of the doubt.