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Author Topic: What does it mean to detach?  (Read 534 times)
Harri
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« on: August 18, 2019, 12:05:04 AM »

We talk a lot about detaching from our pwBPD as a means of gaining self-differentiation and disentangling ourselves from our families and the dysfunction that can be so prevalent.  I don't think we have ever talked specifically about what that looks like.  Below is a list of what detachment looks like.  What resonates with you?

Detachment is the:

* Ability to allow people, places or things the freedom to be themselves.

* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix another person from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.

* Giving another person "the space" to be herself.

* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with people.

* Willingness to accept that you cannot change or control a person, place or thing.

* Developing and maintaining of a safe, emotional distance from someone whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your emotional outlook on life.

* Establishing of emotional boundaries between you and those people you have become overly enmeshed or dependent with in order that all of you might be able to develop your own sense of autonomy and independence.

* Process by which you are free to feel your own feelings when you see another person falter and fail and not be led by guilt to feel responsible for their failure or faltering.

* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing or controlling.

* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective and recognizing that there is a need to back away from the uncontrollable and unchangeable realities of life.

* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to experience greater emotional devastation from having hung on beyond a reasonable and rational point.

* Ability to let people you love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to practice tough love and not give in when they come to you to bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.

* Ability to allow people to be who they "really are" rather than who you "want them to be."

* Ability to avoid being hurt, abused, taken advantage of by people who in the past have been overly dependent or enmeshed with you.

originally shared by a former staff member named BlackandWhite in this thread: 
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https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=111772.msg1450245#msg1450245 (reply #36)
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« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2019, 01:05:41 AM »

Harri   Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

I love the topic. Thank you!

* Ability to allow people, places or things the freedom to be themselves.
Realising when it's another person's self to be insecure, and to want attention, and to engage, for whatever reason—and they bring some issue to fix, implicit or explicit, and you let them bring it—accepting their package (remember: it's their package)... then being able to walk away. Turning away can be a struggle, especially with people that mean (or meant) some particular figure to us—but having the self-discipline to turn, stick the turn, and persist in our own pattern to change, that, I think, is detachment.

* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix another person from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.
From the perspective of an adult child to the parent; to me this is knowing why we've had a deep need to rescue, save or fix our parent(s). Knowing a lot of those why's aren't our faults at all—e.g., the human infant need to protect parents from all harm, them being the protector of the infant during infancy; the human need to protect those of the same tribe/society from harm as a survival strategy to 'handle' the real fear of death. Of course, feeling guilty (if it comes)—taking all these ideas and feelings in to heart, stepping back, and seeing the choice to engage at that point is mine. That, I think, is detachment.

Enjoy your weekend!
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« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2019, 02:09:54 PM »

Hi gotbushels!  Good to see you here.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Excerpt
Turning away can be a struggle, especially with people that mean (or meant) some particular figure to us—but having the self-discipline to turn, stick the turn, and persist in our own pattern to change, that, I think, is detachment.
Yes.  I think turning away or even walking away is sometimes the best thing we can do as we, as you say, 'persist in our own pattern to change'.  The last part, changing us and the way would would almost instinctively react, is vital and I think it most important.  

Walking away can also mean staying in the moment and not instinctively reacting, but rather focusing on staying in the center of the drama triangle and not adding to or jumping into the dysfunction.   Let their stuff/package Smiling (click to insert in post) remain theirs to deal with.

Excerpt
From the perspective of an adult child to the parent; to me this is knowing why we've had a deep need to rescue, save or fix our parent(s). Knowing a lot of those why's aren't our faults at all—e.g., the human infant need to protect parents from all harm, them being the protector of the infant during infancy; the human need to protect those of the same tribe/society from harm as a survival strategy to 'handle' the real fear of death. Of course, feeling guilty (if it comes)—taking all these ideas and feelings in to heart, stepping back, and seeing the choice to engage at that point is mine. That, I think, is detachment.
Very well said.  I think we spend so much time on what 'they' will do and why they do what they do that we spend little time focusing on how we react and what our learned/instinctive behaviors are in these situations.  Looking at us and determining what is a healthy response based on the present and making choices then being willing to accept the consequences of those choices is what is going to lead to lasting change for *us*.

Excerpt
taking all these ideas and feelings in to heart, stepping back, and seeing the choice to engage at that point is mine.
Understanding we have the ability to choose can be both scary and empowering... at the same time.  I am reminded by Panda39's signature that says "Feel the fear and do it anyway".  Smiling (click to insert in post)

 Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2019, 05:59:40 PM »

Detaching. This is heavily looked upon as a romantic thing, but it starts with the parents. My parents did the initial detachment when they moved 1000 miles away when I was 22. This was before the iPhone phenomenon. I remember letting messages on the answering machine go for days. I remember feeling embarrassed when a roommate would tell me that my mom sounded concerned.

Anyway, detachment. I think I was still attached to my parents for a long time. I was attached to them while trying to have romantic relationships.  We’re talking about a deeper level of detachment. Detachment from the
Excerpt
that set us up for ending up here. 

I didn’t start piecing things together or detaching until I found this place. We can detach over and over from romantic partners, but we need to detach from the false self that we were forced into.
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« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2019, 06:13:52 PM »

Sorry to double post, but I think that detachment is detaching from feelings and habits. Not necessarily people. Defined a bit more, detachment from toxicity.
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« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2019, 07:47:26 AM »

Excerpt
Willingness to accept that you cannot change or control a person, place or thing.

Excerpt
Developing and maintaining of a safe, emotional distance from someone whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your emotional outlook on life.

I don't have a BPD mom but have a critical/controlling mom.  The two items above have been key in how I have dealt with her over the last 10 years.

I can not change her she is who she is but I can change how I interact with her, and how much.
I no longer automatically believe her critical comments simply because she is my mother.  I am able to listen with emotional detachment and no longer have those usual knee jerk reactions...hurt feelings or getting defensive.  She has her opinion but it's only her opinion.

Panda39
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« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2019, 09:33:50 AM »

*Ability to allow other people to be who they "really are" rather than "who you want them to be"

*Willingness to accept that you cannot change or control another person


I think these two go hand in hand and are key in letting go of dysfunctional dynamics that we participate in.

I think some of us may get caught up in thinking that underneath the behaviors we see that are causing pain, there is a person who is in great pain who doesn't really want to act the way they do. Hurt people hurt people, including themselves.

The first part may be true. The second may not. Just because someone is acting out of pain doesn't mean that they don't want to do the things they do.

I know that I persisted in this belief for a long time, and I thought that I was "helping" if I could somehow figure out a way to lead others to make choices that would bring about healthy outcomes. If I could just get them to see what they're doing, see that it was destructive, show them there is a better way, they would be grateful and relieved and find happiness and peace.

I had to finally accept that sometimes people do not have the same goal for themselves as I have for them. Willingness to change has to come from within another person. I can't give them that, I can't manipulate them into having that, I can't control whether they want that or not. If it's buried within them somewhere (as I believed), I can't draw it out.

It was hard to accept that some people may not want to change their dysfunction in order to have better, healthier relationships. I could not grasp the concept that someone may not have that goal. But, as tragic as it may be, this is sometimes the truth. I don't have to like it, but I do have to accept it if I want to move towards a healthier, happier, more peaceful "me".


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« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2019, 10:29:04 AM »

So glad to have happened upon this as this says it all for me:

Excerpt
Hurt people hurt people, including themselves.

The first part may be true. The second may not. Just because someone is acting out of pain doesn't mean that they don't want to do the things they do.

I know that I persisted in this belief for a long time, and I thought that I was "helping" if I could somehow figure out a way to lead others to make choices that would bring about healthy outcomes. If I could just get them to see what they're doing, see that it was destructive, show them there is a better way, they would be grateful and relieved and find happiness and peace.

I had to finally accept that sometimes people do not have the same goal for themselves as I have for them. Willingness to change has to come from within another person. I can't give them that, I can't manipulate them into having that, I can't control whether they want that or not. If it's buried within them somewhere (as I believed), I can't draw it out.

It was hard to accept that some people may not want to change their dysfunction in order to have better, healthier relationships. I could not grasp the concept that someone may not have that goal. But, as tragic as it may be, this is sometimes the truth. I don't have to like it, but I do have to accept it if I want to move towards a healthier, happier, more peaceful "me".

It's hard, so hard to see and experience this. And while logically I know that I have to see that and accept it, it's still painful and tragic to watch. Beautifully written. Thank you.
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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2019, 12:49:40 PM »

Quote from:  JNChell
This is heavily looked upon as a romantic thing, but it starts with the parents.
It is?  I think of this primarily as detaching *emotionally* from family rather than romantic partners.  I am not saying it does not need to happen with a partner, it is just that as you say, attachment/detachment stems from FOO issues IMO of course.

Yes, physical detachment, as in distance can help, but is not the same and does not necessarily lead to emotional detachment though I think it can provide the safe space that is often needed to begin emotional detachment.  In this case physical detachment is how I view no contact which is just a tool that can allow us to do deeper work.

Quote from:  JNChell
We can detach over and over from romantic partners, but we need to detach from the false self that we were forced into.
I am not following this, apologies.  It may have something to do with the excerpt that does not display correctly?  Can you try again?

Quote from:  JNChell
I think that detachment is detaching from feelings and habits. Not necessarily people. Defined a bit more, detachment from toxicity.
Agreed.  Again, to me detaching from people is more about no contact which without emotional work including detachment has little value beyond safe space (which can be significant) in terms of being able to heal, cope and even thrive even if surrounded by people who are not healthy.  Setting boundaries, using our tools which can also include removing ourself from a bad situation and differentiation is the goal.

I like the way Panda39 words this:
Quote from:  Panda39
I can not change her she is who she is but I can change how I interact with her, and how much.
I no longer automatically believe her critical comments simply because she is my mother.  I am able to listen with emotional detachment and no longer have those usual knee jerk reactions...hurt feelings or getting defensive.  She has her opinion but it's only her opinion.
Yes!  We can all get to this place where we are not destroyed by opinions and words of our dysfunctional FOO and our own dysfunctional response to them.  It can be done.

Quote from:  Redeemed
Just because someone is acting out of pain doesn't mean that they don't want to do the things they do.
Agreed!  I think a lot of times we try to take a behavior and fit it into the disorder... but how often is a behavior due simply to the 'jerk factor' for lack of a better or more professional term Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) .

Quote from:  Redeemed
It was hard to accept that some people may not want to change their dysfunction in order to have better, healthier relationships. I could not grasp the concept that someone may not have that goal. But, as tragic as it may be, this is sometimes the truth. I don't have to like it, but I do have to accept it if I want to move towards a healthier, happier, more peaceful "me".
Well said Redeemed.  I think too that some people just can't see it, whether that be due to pride, denial or whatever.  Let them be who they are.  We have choices and we have agency.

« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 02:14:35 PM by Harri » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2019, 09:48:48 PM »

Harri,

Detachment is so hard when we've been conditioned to feel responsible for our parents' happiness.  I've been working on this with my bpd mum.  I just came back from visiting her, but this time I did not clean her house (she is a hoarder) and I only stayed one night with her.  I did not pretend everything was normal.

She was clearly confused and angry about my behaviour, and I feel like she may split on me soon, but I just don't have the reserves to play the game anymore.

I think detaching means we can empathise with bpd's pain, but we recognize it's not our fault, nor our job to fix it.

Is this detachment?  I have a pit in my stomach and a feeling of panic and dread, but I can't pretend anymore, my sanity and my health can't take it.
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« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2019, 04:45:00 PM »

Harri,

I like that list a lot and would agree with it. There are a lot of very good examples there!

I think for myself, before I could even begin to detach in the deepest sense, I had to grasp that it is okay to detach. Everything on the list is true as far as I can understand, but I couldn't even get to the starting gate without understanding that it is healthy and okay to not keep being attached. For example, DH frequently says to me, "You are not able to be emotionally intimate. You have become independent and live your life without me. Because you detached from me, I felt your disapproval and as a result, I am not able to be loving towards you."

There is some truth hidden in his statements, and the FOG are meant to pull me back in to attachment with him. The implication is and has always been that I am doing wrong by detaching. That's the enmeshment, the unhealthy binding to someone making it seem as if we are responsible for their choices and actions and feelings. The need to detach in order to be healthy and to begin to experience differentiation is crucial. I heard a statement a couple months ago from a speaker: "Let your husband be who he is. He is just living out what he believes." Huh...she was right! I can stop trying to change what he believes and instead focus on figuring out what I believe and who I am. There is great freedom in that, and in being independent (being my own self-this is differentiation), in being different than my husband.

Wools
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« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2019, 06:31:52 PM »

Hi Wools and Zab .

Zab, detaching from our FOO especially is hard and it can be done. 

Excerpt
I think detaching means we can empathise with bpd's pain, but we recognize it's not our fault, nor our job to fix it.
Is this detachment?  I have a pit in my stomach and a feeling of panic and dread, but I can't pretend anymore, my sanity and my health can't take it.
I would say that yes, it is detachment.   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)  Detachment does not happen all at once and we will have anxiety and our own emotional discomfort to deal with as you describe.  I also think detachment happens in stages and as we move from stage to stage, it takes on more dimension.

Wools, yes, you have to know detachment can be done and it is okay and healthy to do so.  We talk about it a lot here, about self-differentiation and how important it is.  What I never really saw were different descriptions of what it can sound and look like.  I don't think the list is comprehensive though it seems to be pretty thorough.  For me, when I can picture it in one instance or situation it helps me to extrapolate and apply it to my own situations.  I think too, maybe even on a more basic level, we have to give ourself permission to simply say No or even to think it.  Just that one word seems to be such a struggle, I know it was for me.

What you describe coming from your husband is something I can imagine one of us saying to our loved one.  Ironic isn't it?  Details and circumstances matter don't they?  You said there are grains of truth in there.   What are you seeing? 

Excerpt
"Let your husband be who he is. He is just living out what he believes."
Absolutely.  Smiling (click to insert in post)  That is one of the things that I said to help free myself from being a rescuer with my FOO and from getting involved in the drama triangle. 

BTW, it is really cool to see you working out all of these concepts here.  Thanks for sharing.
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« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2019, 07:53:16 PM »

Excerpt
I am not following this, apologies.  It may have something to do with the excerpt that does not display correctly?  Can you try again?

Detaching from and letting go of the false self that was placed on me as a child.
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« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2019, 11:48:17 AM »

Detaching from and letting go of the false self that was placed on me as a child.

For those of us who grew up in homes with a narcissistic mother, a scapegoat, a golden child (who also married an extremely narcissistic woman), this makes perfect sense to me. My family has no idea who I am, because they don't care, honestly.  What my narc mother cares about is how I make HER look to the public.  That said, if I look too good, she never misses a chance to publicly humiliate and degrade me.
We have a family system in place that is extremely detrimental to me.  After coming here and seeking answers for the situation I have with my BPD daughter, I started to look at myself and my life and accept the reality of the pain and anguish that is and has been for so long.  I apologized to my child not for being narcissistic with her, because I wasn't, but for not being emotionally stable all the time while she was growing up.  With an average of 4 visits with the greater family per year, and countless phone calls that left me riddled with anxiety, I can see why things got so messed up.  Couple that with a child who has BPD (her bio dad had it and she genetically inherited it), and I was ill prepared to help her in the full throws of the strings of chaos that resulted from her behaviors.  I wasn't solid and couldn't provide a consistent and solid foundation for her, either.
Things have dramatically improved between my daughter and me, though we both have our individual crosses to bear with respect to getting emotionally healthier.  It's nice that we aren't having the turmoil between us as we do that.  It's also nice to have the list in the OP as well as other resources to help us "play life chess" better, meaning that I am careful and attentive to what comes out of my mouth.  I think about things instead of just being and doing, and it's helping me and us.
Thanks for this discussion on detaching. It makes some fine points along the way. 
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« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2019, 12:39:53 PM »

What resonates with you?

Detachment is the:

* Ability to allow people, places or things the freedom to be themselves.

* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix another person from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.

Honestly I think almost all resonate with me but these two probably the most. No matter how far I am from my FOO geographically, I always feel like I'm supposed to behave a certain way or think and do certain things in order to keep them content. And I always hide my true thoughts and feelings around them, my supposedly "loving and close" family. Heck, my brother's reaction to finding out (only two weeks ago) that I didn't vote for Trump was almost comical if not sad.

Thing is, I'm not much different from the person they think I am, other than seemingly being a little more open minded. But it's still suffocating and I find myself daydreaming of the idea of total autonomy for my nuclear family's life outside of my FOO's influence. Even the little things... like the dread of each weekend wondering if I need to pack the kids in the car to go see them (pre-NC) since we hadn't in a month, and the relief and ability to enjoy my weekend if/when I find out they have plans and thereby temporarily eliminating the sense of obligation. I've spent so much of my adult life feeling like I'm not allowed to be happy unless I've met some minimum criteria for my mom.

Anyway without getting into all the details I've talked about ad nauseam in other threads, I blocked most of my family on my phone last week. And while I know there are still ways they can get through, it has been one of the most freeing things I have ever done. The idea of unblocking them almost feels like putting a yoke back on my neck. Which also means I still have a long way to go with working on me.
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« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2019, 02:09:50 PM »

Harri, thank you for starting this thread and posting these points. 

I have read them over several times.  I will probably read them quite a few more times. I think they are filling some kind of "need" I have at this time, because reading them has shown me that detachment is the process I am currently experiencing (because of necessity), and that it is a healthy thing for me.

I am really grateful for this site because it gives us a SAFE place to vent, learn about BPD and helpful strategies we can put into practice, find real support from other people experiencing the same thing, and allow ourselves to move forward in a way that is healthy for us. 

Thank you for posting the points "what does it mean to detach".  Super helpful.

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« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2019, 09:56:12 AM »

[...] I think that detachment is detaching from feelings and habits.
Reminds me of this:
[...] interpersonal differentiation is when we distinguish our experience from the experience of people we are connected to.
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« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2019, 11:47:30 AM »

Thanks for this thread, Harri!  Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with people.

I'm particularly challenged by this one at the moment. Husband is genuinely resentful that I won't engage more with his enmeshed mom, creating serious issues between us.

* Developing and maintaining of a safe, emotional distance from someone whom you have previously given a lot of power to affect your emotional outlook on life.

This is something I've done, and I can do it again. I call it preserving my peace.  With affection (click to insert in post) I've also been brave in testing my limits and taken calculated risks with people that I suspected were off-kilter. If and when my boundaries were violated, I was able to graciously but firmly assert them. (In some cases, I still think back and wonder if I could/should have done things differently, but trying to trust my intuition and move forward with accepting consequences.) 
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« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2019, 05:52:24 PM »



* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective and recognizing that there is a need to back away from the uncontrollable and unchangeable realities of life.

originally shared by a former staff member named BlackandWhite in this thread: 
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https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=111772.msg1450245#msg1450245 (reply #36)


What a great list, Harri! Everything resonates with me. The one above is the most helpful. My parents made the unexpected into a catastrophe they were unable to fix. That's where I came in as a child to fix things. 

 It relieved my stress that the awful thing was now ok, and gave me confidence as the family fixer.

 I also tend to make small things in my life a pseudo disaster. I'm my own fixer. I hone in on the issue and do overkill. So stressful for me.

I am letting my parents deal alone with their overreaction lately. I'm not helping. It's tough. They look so stressed/helpless from the crisis of the week.  If I help, it'll calm them, but mom will later rage, etc.

Less stress for me this week so far which is nice.
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