Lets say I want her back. What is best course of action?

[ohioman]

Mod note: This is a continuation of a previous thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=339143.0

Lets say I want her back.

What is best course of action?

a. Go no contact

b. Tell her, "Ok well I asked to see you several times. If you would like to email me"

c. Just keep emailing back and forth. back and forth

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[once removed]

d. none of the above  

those are not courses of action to get someone back. theyre not a good idea even if you dont want her back.

the first course of action is to determine what you want to do. there are some long standing problems here. theres a lot of distrust. shes a very jealous person. she has done some things (contact with the ex, having sex while he was in a relationship) to make you seriously doubt her character. determine whether or not you think she has cheated or if you are blowing off steam.

you dont want to get back with her just for all the old relationship problems to start right back up. you would want to go in with a very different game plan, a developed idea of how to resolve conflict in your relationship, and whether its possible/realistic.

thats long term, but dont skip past it.

short term stop the bleeding. stop the circular arguments. let go of who is right and wrong. seek to understand where shes coming from. let your guard down. say you dont want to fight anymore. that you want to listen and understand where shes coming from. personalize it of course.

we have a great lesson on ending conflict here...its really the most important thing short term and it can give you an idea of what you want to say: https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict

most likely, she will initially reject that, tell you its too late, tell you to shove it. expect that. why? it would be hard to believe. shes still mad, and there isnt any trust. dont take it personally. it will plant a seed. if you dont overreact or push back, she will be caught off guard (in a good way), and she will probably move closer to taking you up on it.

[ohioman]

Would you tell her the fears that I have with her?  

An example could be "I fear that when things get tough you seek out someone else, so I withdraw"

[once removed]

Would you tell her the fears that I have with her? 

not off the bat, no. listen first. reflect. wait until shes receptive.

"I fear that when things get tough you seek out someone else, so I withdraw"

i would find another way to say this. its a bit accusatory, and blamey. it will likely be heard that way.

[ohioman]

Well that spiraled out of control.

Sent her a nice email saying I don’t want to fight anymore. We both had fault etc.

She emailed back “I agree. I had fault too. You can go on dates.  It’s fine.  Want you and your son to be happy”.  I never said a word about wanting to date.

From there we argued back and forth for hours, her saying I left her and never wanted her.  Etc etc.

[once removed]

If you had it to do over again, how might you approach it?

[ohioman]

It really hurt me. I don’t know.

Maybe just have said “ok. I don’t want to. But have a good night”

[once removed]

i warned you that there would be push back, rejection, etc, and why.

you cant go from 60-0 with just a few words.

this will take a radically different approach. it will take learning to deal with conflict more constructively, and it will take being able to step away from your hurt for a time. its a tall order. are you up for it?

did you read the resource on ending conflict or on stopping circular arguments?

[ohioman]

Yes.  I would be better at the conflict management in person.

Via email is harder for me.

As soon as I was “nicer” it led to her telling me to date.

When I would tell her “fine. I’m done “.  It leads to her admitting mistakes.

[once removed]

with email, you can go nuts, without her ever seeing it or reading it. you can share it all here and get feedback and craft a constructive response.

“fine. I’m done “.  It leads to her admitting mistakes.

this is push/pull on both sides. its destructive to the relationship. dont make threats. if youre done, be done.

this obviously isnt done, but its either going to get worse, or better, and youre in the position to make it better. to do that, you will have to stop the bleeding (stop the things on your end that are making it worse).

she has a lot of resentment. as i said, you cant go from 60-0 with just a few words. from her end, she needs to vent that resentment. she needs to feel heard. in order to do that, you will have to set your hurts aside (just for a time, not completely), and really listen. to show that youre listening. to not trigger in response and escalate. if you can do that, she will eventually run out of steam, you will have shown her a stronger, more mature partner, and she will begin to let her guard down and trust.

are you up for it?

[ohioman]

Yes.  And that makes sense.

[once removed]

id encourage you to share some of the correspondence and get some perspective on it, and help with crafting a response.

this is tough stuff to get the hang of, especially in the middle of it.

[LoneRanger307]

You are getting a lot of good advice from others, but something I noticed that hasn't been discussed is your ongoing sexual engagement with your gf and her bouncing back and forth between partners. Hypersexual behavior can be a part of BPD for some people. It's also a symptoms of codependency (something I am working on). In codependency we talk about "accepting sex as a substitute for love" and people who use sex as a way to keep others engaged, as they feel like it's the only thing they have to offer.

When you guys are suddenly intimate after a "break up" do you discuss re-engaging sexually before you do it? Do you ever stop to set guidelines, limits, expectations around those activities?

[ohioman]

Yes.  I don’t know the extent , to be honest, of what is bpd sexually or normal for most people.

You always hear about rebound relationship, or people
Going back to an ex, etc.  so these days, I don’t know what most people do when they break up.

We haven’t had sex since break up. I saw her once for a few minutes.  So it’s been about 5 weeks.

[ohioman]

 Our history is that she has always wanted to be with me for past 4 years. Almost obsessive. We been together last 2.

She is mad I never asked to marry her. I pointed out that she never in person said she loves me. Said she wants to marry me. Like verbally had a conversation. She clams up.   I told her most women discuss it..

Her email:

"You say that because maybe that happened with your other wives. Maybe they got bored because you fawned over them. So maybe you got burned so you were a total asshole to me. Maybe the first wife asked you to marry her so she could come to America. Maybe your second wife asked you to marry her because she just did things like that. So maybe your used to the women asking. You never really treated me like the person I am. You kind of just coasted off those relationships never ever asking me my thoughts or what I like "

[once removed]

You say that because maybe that happened with your other wives.

what is she referring to you saying?

the difficult thing to do in these moments is to let the words wash over you...listen to what shes really communicating between the lines, between the drama.

what is the point of view shes trying to communicate here?

focusing on the last line of her email will help.

[ohioman]

what is she referring to you saying?

the difficult thing to do in these moments is to let the words wash over you...listen to what shes really communicating between the lines, between the drama.

what is the point of view shes trying to communicate here?

focusing on the last line of her email will help.

She is saying that I "fawned" over my ex wives, but not her.

She knows nothing about my previous relationships.  That is typical of her style of communication.  She is just saying I treated my ex wives like gold, and her like crap.

As for the last line, I view her as a people pleaser. So she doesn't typically say things she likes. I ask her repeatedly her goals, aspirations etc. She just says she "likes to do things for other people"

She is now saying, she thinks she is just filling a role, and I don't take time to get to know her. She feels jealous I was married before, but did not ask her.

While we were friends years ago, she always had the same narrative "Guys just want to use me for sex, but nobody wants a relationship with me"

[once removed]

look past the drama and venting. it is pent up frustration.

listen and relate on a human to human level.

You never really treated me like the person I am.

this is what it boils down to. this is what she wants to be heard.

she feels looked past...not appreciated...not seen or heard for who she is...or whatever.

you may feel youve done your best. maybe you have. set that aside.

find the kernel of truth. acknowledge it.

you dont have to do that by agreeing with it (though if its true, validate the kernel of truth). you can ask questions that acknowledge it. you can ask her to explain further. you could ask her if shes saying she feels taken advantage of, or not cared for, or unloved, but demonstrate that you want to understand where shes coming from.

its the power of asking validating questions: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0

you dont have to agree. you acknowledge, and in doing so, you make the person feel heard. that, above all, is what she wants.

one of the first things i learned when i came here was not to JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain). it is what fuels circular arguments. if shes just venting about your wives, thats not something you want or need to fight about or defend yourself against. one of the best ways to sift through the drama is to sift through the JADE on her end, and not JADE on yours.

[ohioman]

I emailed her this morning if she wants to have coffee before work. (She works close to my house)

She replied:

"I am waking up late so I won't have time. Plus I don't want my blood pressure up first thing in the morning so we can argue who was right and wrong. I already told you you can blame me. I accept fault"

I replied:

"Ok, since you accept fault I can cross that off my list of things to do today. But seriously, just wanted to say a few things in person. Maybe another time"

She replied:

"Maybe Monday morning?
I do accept fault so you don’t have to be hurt or carry pain. I will do it for you.
I don’t have anything to say to you just so you know. I will let you say your things and that’s it. "

[once removed]

what is your strategy here? why the sarcasm?

[ohioman]

what is your strategy here? why the sarcasm?

I wanted to see her to talk to her since almost the entirety of the break up was via email and text. I was just trying to move away from constantly fighting about “who broke up with who”

I told her so many times I am done arguing about it, so tried to make it light.

What do you think about what she is saying?

[once removed]

I think she's saying "I don't even have the will to fight anymore. I'll let you have last word. Let's get this over with."

It's not an ideal place to be if you want her back.

Is the goal to get back together or say a few last words?

[ohioman]

The goal is to get her back.  

How would you handle the coffee meeting?

Or perhaps she does realize she has some fault? She did email back immediately and agree to meet.  

I am at the same point. I am tired of the circular debate about who’s fault it is. I been telling her that.

[ohioman]

The goal is to get her back.  

How would you handle the coffee meeting?

Or perhaps she does realize she has some fault? She did email back immediately and agree to meet.  

I am at the same point. I am tired of the circular debate about who’s fault it is. I been telling her that.

I honestly don’t know if she thinks she was important to me, or was just being used.

[once removed]

i would have made clear that the coffee meeting was about listening to her, rather than me getting something off of my chest. she thinks thats what shes going into. shes doing it reluctantly.

its okay. you can redirect it, recover the ball.

going into the coffee meeting, i would steer clear of throwing any hail marries, and id avoid the sorts of grand speeches you see in every romantic comedy. it will likely fall flat. she will likely feel its too little too late. or not trust it.

i would keep it very simple. i would communicate "i get it. or i get that i dont get it, and i want to better understand. i think i can do better." i would not go beyond that.

i would not appeal to her or try to talk her back into a relationship. at all.

i would make my primary focus on giving her the space to talk. i would at most ask questions to show that im listening and want to understand.

if she takes the opportunity to talk, especially the more she talks, then she probably isnt done. its a good sign, almost no matter what she says.

worst case scenario, you may hear hopelessness and exhaustion from her. you may literally hear "im just done". that may be where she is in the moment. its very important not to argue, or to react to it. if you catch her off guard, and you dont fight with it, its the strongest move you can possibly play. it will show security. it will give her space. it will catch her off guard. and it will make it far more likely that she reconsiders. i dont mean be coy or play hard to get. i mean dont be defensive or argue. be understanding.

thats the worst case scenario. otherwise, just do lots of listening.

make sense?

do this, it will be your best friend:

Empathy Skills

    Set Aside Personal Beliefs, Concerns and Agenda - Just for now, at least. Go into the conversation empty handed—with no personal expectations or goal of fixing anyone. Be willing to have your mind and perspective changed. Your only agenda is listening and trying to understand the other’s point of view.

    Remove Ourselves / Gain Perspective - When you take things personally, you cannot separate yourself enough to feel the other person’s pain. Detach enough so that you are not in a emotionally heightened state— do not allow the other person’s behavior to upset you or trigger you.

    Be Present/ Be an Active Listener - Listen to the person in the moment, truly utilizing the skills of actively listening. Don't jump ahead, re-frame what they are saying and compare it to a personal experience you had, don't rush to project ahead, or to frame a response. When we do this we completely lose sight of the reason of our conversation in the first place, sharing information as a means to build, maintain and sustain the relationship.

    Getting Beyond the Facts / Relate - When the other person begins to share, focus on their feelings. Think of situations that you’ve experienced in the past that are similar. Just think about this - connect with it - don't share it. This will deepen your emotional insight into the other person’s plight.

    Talk to the Person's Inner-Child - When we visualize our child as their vulnerable inner-child we can lower and lessen our defenses, that will then allow us to want to preserve the relationship and communicate in an effective way.

    See Empathy as a Lifestyle, Not an Event - Make an effort to heal the past hurts, to remember to accentuate the positive, and to nurture the relationship on a daily basis. Most importantly, be mindful that when we are angry we can do a lot of damage and set things way back.

[ohioman]

This is something else I like to add.  

As strange as it sounds, I never really said nice things to her in person.

She likes to joke.  Please.  Do tasks for me.  It was always hard to say “I really care about you”. It never even came up.

The nice things she said to me were “you are so hot”, etc. And usually joking around, making jokes etc.

In a way she changed her entire life for me, would do anything for me, yet never could say “I love you”. Or “I really like you”. Etc.

Never could she say “this is how this makes me feel”

This goes ten fold for face to face interactions.  It has always been via email or text if she has an issue or complaint. For the first years of knowing her she would just come see me and hug me.  Almost too nervous to even talk. Would not eat in front of me

So I wonder if that has any effect on my actions during the meeting or her actions/ reactions.

[once removed]

im not sure i follow.

are you considering saying nice things to her in person? wondering if she will do it? wondering if she will be too nervous to talk?

[ohioman]

im not sure i follow.

are you considering saying nice things to her in person? wondering if she will do it? wondering if she will be too nervous to talk?

Nothing over the top. And I would accept her decision. I do not think she would say many nice things to me.  I’m not sure if she would say much to me. Her body language would say most of it I feel.

I just want her to know I cared.  Didn’t take her for a fool. And value her thoughts.   

I’m not sure what else to do.

[once removed]

I think it would be reasonable and a very good idea to communicate that. From the heart. Don't overdo it or "sell" her on it.

[Jessica84]

It's a good sign she wants to meet for coffee. 

But you need to be prepared. After a breakup, it's natural to want to express all the things left unsaid. They can't handle that. Easier to say "my fault, find someone else" than to face it all. Too overwhelming. So go easy. Take cues from her.

Ideally, you want to have a clear head before meeting up again. Resolve your issues with her inside. Maybe write her a long letter but don't send it. You'll be surprised what you learn about her and yourself in doing this. So when you see her again, you'll be ready... cool, easy to talk to, listening, validating. This is not what she will be expecting. She'll be expecting that dizzying ride and just want off of it. Best of luck!