Starting to understand

[o in AK]

I have been married to my wife for a little over 10 years, in that time she has been "sick" 4 times that I know of.  By this I am pretty sure it is when she splits me to black and starts to get her attention from other men.  When I finally catch on to what is happening I usually have already noticed she was treating me different and I started paying extra attention to her and it seemed easy for her to cut off everyone she was getting attention from and focus back on me.  Until the last time, it was a huge struggle that turned into a self harm event followed by the ER followed by 8 days in an intensive mental health unit.  Now she is home and I am pretty sure has split me back to white and just wants me again.  I knew she had a horrible childhood with a lot of trauma but until two weeks ago did not know it was borderline personality disorder, I thought it was mainly PTSD.  How she has acted makes a lot more sense now that I have read about it and am starting to understand from reading and talking to her.  She is starting counseling and on several medications including depression and mood stabilizers and has been pretty open with me about how she acted and felt.  I still love her and want her to get better but want to make sure I know how to support her, I also know I have to be the one doing a lot of the work keeping me on the white side of splitting while she is getting help.  Just wanted to hear from people who might have been through the same, probably my rescuer personality that keeps me here but besides when she has been "sick" we have a great marriage.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Harri]

Hi and welcome!  I am glad you found us.

You are in the right place as we have many members who will be able to relate to your story and support and guide you as you learn new ways to function in your relationship.  We have lots of tools here in addition to articles that can help you understand and cope.

Other than here, what sort of support network do you have?  Do you have kids?  Just trying to get a better feel for your situation.

She is okay other than when she has these episodes of being sick.  do I understand that correctly?  What sort of things are you experiencing when she is 'sick'?  Is she talking to men or is she seeing them? 

The more you tell us the more we can help.  I apologize for all of the question.  Don't feel you have to answer all of them. 

Anyway, share more when you can.  We're here.

[Enabler]

Hey o in AK,

Great to hear from you. Although everyone's story has it's little nuances, your story sounds very very similar to my own. I'm 22 years deep, on at least my 3rd cycle but this time heading for divorce as it seems that the recent attention is 'the one'.

I pretty much blamed myself for the cycles until I found BPD, it was like discovering the enigma machine to explain the last 22 years of my life. The last 2 years with the knowledge of BPD has been very different to the previous 20. I've found emotional stability not necessarily in her, but in myself. I've been able to rationalise the seemingly irrational.

How are you baring up over all of this? I'd imagine you feel like you've been through an emotional washing machine multiple times. Do you see a Therapist? If not I would highly recommend you see one ON YOUR OWN. There will be a lot of things to iron out.

I'd love to hear more about your story, get to know you etc etc.

Take care

Enabler

[o in AK]

Thanks for the response.  I think I was much like you and blamed myself for the first two (there might have been 3, one when she was in Thailand getting her visa and I was gone a lot) cycles, I must have stopped paying as much attention as I used to and got upset when I noticed the changes in how she treated me which made me pay even less attention to her and made the cycle worse.  I am holding up better now than I was several weeks ago, I just started to see a therapist (have not told my wife) and plan on continuing that to make myself healthy.  The first time it was with a younger man (I am 14 years older than my wife) and I rationalized it as she wanted someone closer to her age but came back to me.  The second time it was our personal trainer that I know I look better than, he just paid her more attention since it was new and exciting.  That time was when she told me she was "sick" and wanted to get better and opened up about a lot of her past, I thought it was PTSD until this time when she was diagnosed with PTSD and BPD while she was in the hospital for 10 days in the mental health unit.  This time it started lots of new activities which was with new groups of friends, I think it started out as feeling lonely and looking for friends and then she realized it was men's attention she wanted and spiraled into that.  All of the times she tried her best to hide it from me and we still did husband/wife stuff and even were intimate as much or more as when she is not "sick".

She is Thai and ran away from a horribly abusive home when she was 12 and basically had to sell herself over and over to support herself.  Plus she was BP so also had a string of unhealthy relationships.  She has some BPD symptoms when she is not "sick", it is hard for her to be alone and she does a lot of the little things I have read about with how she treats me.  I am awesome one moment and then kind of suck the next.  I would buy her something to spoil her and she would be head over heals, then forget something tiny a hour later and I was an inconsiderate jerk.  This is not all the time but I see things that are BPD symptoms consistently.  Weird thing is some of it is what I like about her, I am not impulsive but when she is and it is us doing it together it is fun. It seems like her being "sick" is when I am not the one she wants and her impulses take over damn the consequences.  This time it was lots of online chatting and at least one turned into meeting and dating.  I think probably more did, maybe quite a few more.  I knew a lot of the details of the last guy and decided I did not want to know beyond that, she was willing to tell me everything and I stopped her since just knowing more details would not help me.  She opened up about it and told me it was so hard to end it with him since his personality was a lot like mine.  Not in a good way but in an enabling way I think, too tolerant and putting up with how she was acting.  Too trusting too.  She is back to focused on me and not "sick" and now the guilt and shame of what she did is eating her up. 

She went to her first counseling session yesterday and was so happy after meeting her, telling me she opened up about the lying and cheating and I know her counselor has all of the info from the psychiatrist she worked with in the hospital and I think she was pretty honest with him and her about what she felt and what she did.  To me this seems like a good sign that she might really be ready to get better and work on the problems that make her "sick".  I have been making sure I stay her center of attention, I kind of like doing nice things for her and if it helps to keep me as the knight in shining armor while she starts therapy I can put in more that I get out.  For a while, tried it before when she was not getting help and I know there will be a burn out time for me which would start the cycle over.

 We have 2 children, our 8 year old is ours together and our 15 year old was hers before we were together but I have raised her since she was 5 and she is my daughter in every way but biologically.  I think initially I was worried that I wanted her back for the kids sake but after lots of time processing everything I realized I was a much better single dad than we were co parents when she was "sick" and it is because I love her and I feel like it is the BPD that did this, not the person she is most of the time.  I even talked to our 15 year old, who I have never adopted, and she wants to stay with me if we do separate.  My wife has brought up several times that maybe we should do a trial separation while she gets better, I have been adamant that if we separate that it probable would be what would make me decide that it really was over.

[Longterm]

Hi o in AK

I would like to join Harri and Enabler in welcoming you to the family.

I was in a relationship/marriage for 20yrs with a woman that has very similar behavioural patterns to your wife. I too know what it is like living in these cycles and dealing with the negative emotions. I have lost count of the times I have been disposed of in cruel fashion.

This is not a very easy thing to come to terms with but we are all, or were in the same boat here and you will find a huge well of knowledge and experience on this site.

I think it's great that your wife is embracing therapy and I hope you will see some favourable changes.

Again, welcome 

LT.

[Enabler]

Her ability to be accountable for her actions is certainly something to be excited about. Her ability to learn better decision making and tolerate distress is something she can train herself for. Although it may not feel like something you should be grateful for but her ability to come clean is very good. Many people with BPD do not have the capacity for self reflection i.e. seeing themselves for who they really are, seeing their behaviours as they actually are.

It's great that she is embracing therapy, I'm sure it won't all be smooth sailing but this is good. It's awesome you've been able to identify your feelings about her, the marriage and the kids, and great you're seeing a therapist on your own.

How do you think she will handle the idea of you seeing a T?

Enabler

[o in AK]

I think if I told her now I was seeing a T it would make things much worse, mostly because I don't want her to think what she did is why I am going.  I think if she thinks she hurt me so bad I needed to see a T then she might give up, I am sure in time I will tell her but probably only after I talk to her T about it and figure out when.  If I thought she could understand right now that I am seeing a T to make me healthy, not because of what she did, it would be different.  I think the guilt and shame are too fresh for her right now and she needs to work with her T to get the skills to process those.

I am sure we will still have a lot of up and down days, many days will have both ups and downs.  She seems to have found the right therapist and I am sure it will not always be smooth but think she really wants to stick with it.  I am pretty sure she knows that if she does get "sick" again her time with me and the kids as a family will be over and truly do not think she wants that to happen.  She does not have any family back in Thailand and only a few good friends here, plus no real employment prospects so I think she knows when she is not sick how much she would be giving up.  We have a pretty good life together most of the time. But I also think I know enough now about her and about BPD that if she does get sick again none of that will matter, and if she does not continue her therapy eventually she will get sick again.  Maybe not for years, maybe in a week but it would happen again.

I actually am pretty grateful she has come clean to me about her actions and seems to understand how much hurt she caused, I know that was very hard for her and to me seems like one of the best signs I could have that she wants to change.  I feel like it took me more than 5 years to start to know her and over 10 to understand what she goes through on a daily basis.  It took a few crisis that were to the point of losing each other to get to where we are and knowing what has caused the hurt really helped me forgive her (but not her actions).

I am really glad I found this forum, just knowing I am not alone and having some support really helps.

[Enabler]

Is there any way that you could get her to suggest you see a therapist too? Maybe suggest that you’ve read that it’s a good idea for ‘nons’ To have their own source of therapy to help them learn about BPD and the challenges you have and will face? Are you allowed to read up on BPD? Eg get stop walking on eggshells and I know that suggests nons have a T.

Enabler

[o in AK]

I have read up a lot on BPD, it has helped me understand a lot of her behavior and started to get me to a healthy place.  I just ordered Walking on Eggshells, thanks for the suggestion.  I might try bringing up me seeing a therapist, maybe if I can do it where she knows it is to help us get to a healthy (as much as it ever can be, even after treatment) relationship and not to deal with being cheated on she will be more accepting.  At least reading about it and understanding more where she is emotionally coming from has helped me deal with myself and feelings better, the more I have been able to accept it is just how she copes to deal with her emotions and that I am not some dysfunctional person who can't keep a girl happy the better place I am in.

[Enabler]

Yes, maybe pitch it as BPD training. Do you feel comfortable to show her the book? There's definitely a section in there which advises you seek individual therapy. Even if she doesn't like the idea, that doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do. Bettering yourself and taking care of your own mental health is a good thing to do. It would be optimal if this wasn't a point of conflict, but at the same time I think your own mental health is a priority. You can't help her if you haven't got yourself to a good place. She doesn't need to know you exact motivations for going to T. My W was keen for me to go to T as she thought I was the whole problem with the relationship. I didn't pop that delusion for her and let her believe that I was going purely to explore my own dysfunction.

[o in AK]

Thanks for the reply, I don't envy you since if my wife was thinking I was the problem I think our end result would be a lot different.  I have been doing a lot of reading on mindfulness and radical acceptance (my wife is Buddhist and I have read some about their teachings and radical acceptance comes from Buddhism) and it has really helped.  I will see my T again in about 3 weeks, he was booked until then, and going to talk to him and see if DBT might be something good for me.  I have noticed I have got myself to a good place, not a great place but pretty good.  The last time this happened and I didn't know about BPD it was a lot harder, this time knowing more and the effort she is putting in really make me hopeful.  I think my approach is going to be to talk to her therapist and see if she will recommend it to my wife, I think if it comes from there she will be pretty open to it.  One thing I have left out is this latest episode ended with finding out she has a severely overactive thyroid, it can make the underlying conditions much worse and also makes it that we are not just dealing with the fallout of a BPD cycle but a serious health issue that won't really be under control for a few months.  Got good docs but the meds for it take a few months to really stabilize.  I realized that I have learned more about myself in the last two cycles than most of the time I have been adult, kind of weird that I can already feel that going through this is going to make me a better person.  Hopefully a better person with a wife that is in remission but whatever happens I think I will be able to deal with it a lot better.

[Enabler]

Great planner Her T of you can have contact with them. Good to hear you’re in a good place. It’s amazing the difference having a context to put the behaviour has on our ability to cope and maintain our sanity. Keep learning

Enabler

[once removed]

This time it started lots of new activities which was with new groups of friends, I think it started out as feeling lonely and looking for friends and then she realized it was men's attention she wanted and spiraled into that.

what sorts of things do the two of you have in common?

are you sharing mutual interests, hobbies, activities?

[o in AK]

We actually have a lot of common interests. We hike together a lot, go to the gym, like the same shows, travel. When she is herself, not her bpd self, we are great together. Both when it’s just us or with the kids. We have figured out what we like to do together over the years, it started with her liking everything I did like most bpd relationships but think we know each other pretty good now. We are very different in many ways, I will have my masters degree next spring and she didn’t finish high school. I have a very good job and she would find it difficult to work. She is 14 yeas younger than me. She is the most amazing cook I have ever seen and I am marginal at best. We are both very active and like most of the same stuff. Until a cycle starts, then she likes whatever the new friends and guys like. Then it’s over and it’s back to us again. We complement each other pretty well, only had 4 big fights in 10 years and all 4 were when she had flipped me.