Ok so I probably do have PTSD, now what?

[PeaceMom]

I finally went thru the PTSD symptoms list and I hit almost all of them. Between my 4 struggling young adults kids who live here, I’ve witnessed or helped with between 10-15 extremely traumatic events (big “T’s”) Then, I add in about 20 more highly traumatic events, more like smaller “t’s“ and it’s becoming apparent that I do have PTSD.

I’m a researcher and do not see much reported success in PTSD treatment. I would run to EMDR, but this is effective for 1 or 2 big traumas, maybe not so much the many many things I’ve been witness to.

There are about 8 types of different PTSD treatment,  how do I go about navigating this? Can I self treat? I shared with you all here how my last therapist told me 3 things:
1. “Quit researching so much-it’s a poor coping mechanism”
2. “You really need to write a book”
3. “My advice to you is to Do Less”

Needless to say, I did not return.

I appreciate any insight as the effects are starting to show up in my daily life.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[FaithHopeLove]

Have you seen these articles? https://www.bing.com/search?cp=1252&FORM=FREESS&q=Ptsd&q1=site%3Abpdfamily.com

[livednlearned]

PeaceMom,

Have you read The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk (sorry if I'm repeating myself, I can't remember if I recommended it in your posts?). It might be one of the most important books I've read. It helped me understand trauma experienced in my family of origin, my marriage, and now in raising and launching adults with trauma.

Like you, I considered EMDR and searched for someone who happens to also practice somatic experiencing. She recommended SE for me because of the nature of trauma I've experienced (chronic, ongoing).

One of the reasons she persuaded me to try SE is because (in her experience) EMDR can open the door too wide for painful feelings to rush through, creating the possibility that you feel re-traumatized experiencing the same feelings twice. In her words, it does not lend itself to "titrating." She felt it was better to work slowly, opening the door a little at a time, allowing certain emotions to come through, carefully and safely.

I'm overly cerebral and live a lot in my head, so working with a therapist trained in body-based trauma work has been powerful. I don't know how other SE therapists work, but mine will ask me questions similar to a regular T, and will pick up on things she sees happening in my body, through body language, eyes, and then have me change gestures or (in one instance) kick the air. The first sessions surprised me -- she asked me to go home and think about three memories that define who I am. I thought of three, then came in, ready to describe ones I have processed a lot in my mind.

But when it was time to talk about them, she picked up things in my body and had me answer questions like, "Who is over there, to your right?" And then I would be in the memory rather than narrating it from a distance. With one memory, I was shocked to learn how much anger I had toward my parents over a memory I always thought was between me and my brother. The body keeps the score ... somehow SE was able to unlock the feelings and I cried harder than I have since childhood. To the point I wondered if I should have someone pick me up and drive me home  I'm not someone who cries easily so that therapy session moved a lot of earth!

Most of the prior therapy I did was talk therapy and unless I was inside a crisis, I felt once removed from my emotions, which is sort of how I learned to cope as a kid.

Somatic experiencing can help work with your brain to reach deep feelings through the body. It comes from Peter Levine's work (In An Unspoken Voice: How the Body Releases Trauma and Goodness, and Waking the Tiger: Trauma Through a Child's Eyes).

The way SE has affected me is that I can tolerate my emotions better, which means I am no longer in freeze mode (as in fight, flight, or freeze). I didn't expect that to happen. For example, if my H is angry (just angry, whether at me or not), I can remain remarkably centered and calm rather than going straight to numbed out coping mechanisms. Being centered means I don't take on his stuff like I have done most of my adult life, which makes it easier to access the wise mind part of my brain.

In van der Kolk's book he discusses other therapies suggested for trauma. The research is still emerging and like many things, some people will respond better to some therapies versus another.

I think my son (ASD) has been traumatized by the sensations of his deep emotions, not to mention his dad's effect on him. For S18, I suspect neurofeedback would be better, but we haven't got there yet...

It's a big breakthrough to recognize that you suffer from PTSD, PeaceMom. 

[Bluemoon23]

I also found some apps for PTSD in my searching around today:

https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/ptsd-coach/id430646302

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=is.vertical.ptsdcoach&hl=en_CA

https://mobile.va.gov/app/ptsd-coach

[PeaceMom]

Thanks all- I feel a little embarrassed talking about my issues here -this stems from childhood stuff about not being a burden

I appreciate the links, Faith and Blue.

LNL, you tell a story so similar to mine! I think Van der Kolk is amazing and have been in contact with his program, The Meadows, for DD. We couldn’t afford it, but since I always feel like her BPD morphed out of RAD, I thought it would help.  I never considered SE for myself, but now I will. I’m very cerebral, as well and have been afraid EMDR would be overstimulating for me.

I think I had a breakthrough yesterday as I dove in to Complex PTSD. I have assumed that if I did have it, it came from the past 5 years of living thru sheer hell with my kids. I’ve just barely shared here (probably 10% of the insanity), so probably even 4 or 5 of the 50 crises I’ve had to witness or assist with could cause serious secondary trauma to a carer like myself.

However,  my research led me to the work of Pete Walker, a therapist,  who talks about “emotional flashbacks”. He says anytime an adult is feeling “insignificant, little, in trouble, afraid” when there is no current or Imminent danger, it can almost always be tied to an emotional flashback from childhood. He says C-PTSD is actually at the core of many misdiagnosed syndromes. I started to consider that maybe I had these symptoms to a lesser, more manageable degree, before this craziness with my kids started 5 years ago.

I didn’t think I could claim abuse or neglect in my childhood but looking at things with some objectivity I think I need to admit I was a victim of both. Ugh.

I’m a keep it together and don’t make a mess kinda gal, so it is awkward putting this out in cyberspace. I’m reading thru Walker’s 13 STEPS for stopping an Emotional Flashback and everything else on his website. I guess I’m experiencing more flashbacks than a healthy person would and that’s why I have so much trouble sitting with my kid’s pain and sad circumstances.

Kudos to this Forum for leading me to this discovery. I still don’t know how to post a link here, but the 13 steps are a great read.

Thanks for listening, friends.

[Rosheger]

Just want to add how much I got out of your starting the conversation!  Just read the 13 steps - spot on! Thank you.

[PeaceMom]

Thanks Rosh -I’m glad those 13 resonated with you, too. I know you are having a rough go wanting to reach out to DD, but are sitting on your hands. It must be hard to give space when you are concerned about her welfare, but we must respect their boundaries, too. If you go back on to Pete Walker’s website he has a button on Co-counseling (I think this is when you can’t find a T, so you use a bud to co-counsel with). He gives an incredible list of how to sit and listen and only give feedback when asked. I see this as being so helpful in every single relationship. It goes way beyond validation. It might be helpful in your situation with your DD.  I’m going to attempt to incorporate it in my relationships.

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi Peace mom,

I just wanted to let you know that many of us on these boards have been diagnosed with it have symptoms of cptsd, myself included, and most of us inevitably trace the roots back to our foo. Like you, I realized recently that my symptoms didn't begin as a result of my relationship with my pwbpd, but were present to some degree already.

Here is a link to the survivor to thrive lessons on PSI. Pete Walker is referenced quite a bit over there. You might venture over and read some other people's experiences if you feel like it:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=331826.0

[PeaceMom]

I am Redeemed,
It’s  comforting to know I am not alone in my recent discovery. We are all enmeshed in such deep situational anxiety and the resulting fallout that it’s hard to get any perspective about true causation, lack of resilience, preexisting conditions, etc.

I’ve felt like I needed to have 2 T’s -one a pure life coach who calls in plays from the sidelines and the other one to dig in on the fear in my chest. Currently, I have neither -so I’m my own.

I see you are a long time member so your share is encourages me that you made a recent similar discovery. It validates that all my research and soul searching efforts are not in vain and i can gain new critical insights. I’ll read the links.

[livednlearned]

I couldn't find it on this site but I remember a research article about carers for BPD loved ones. It might be this one, although only the abstract is available online. This jumped out at me:

Five of the six studies focused on carers of persons with borderline personality disorder. The findings indicated that carers experience elevated objective and subjective burden, grief, impaired empowerment, and mental health problems, including depression and anxiety. Scores on objective and subjective burden were half a standard deviation above the mean compared to carers of inpatients with other serious mental illnesses.

And thank you for the link to Pete Walker's work! This is how I feel about the somatic experiencing work I've been doing:

Over time we become more and more proficient at managing them and alleviating unnecessary states of activation; this in turn results in flashbacks occurring less often, less enduringly and less intensely.

There's an MD in Canada named Gabor Mate who wrote Scattered, and he seems to be saying the same thing about trauma and ADHD, and if I remember correctly, he shows how trauma can run through generations of families. Meaning, if your parents were traumatized during WWII, that trauma tends to show up in the children in one way or another.

And bringing up PTSD on this site couldn't be more appropriate and fitting 

It's what we're here for, and many of us struggle with the same issues. If you take it a step further and assume that people with BPD regulate their emotions externally, then learning to manage our own emotional inner life is part of helping them regulate.

I assume that caring for ourselves starts with this stuff 

[I Am Redeemed]

Peacemom, no, you are absolutely not alone.

I'm a compulsive researcher, too. I don't think it is a poor coping mechanism unless there is all research and no action taken with the information. Research is what led me to this forum, as it has others.

I am currently on a break from therapy due to lack of insurance and I am trying to fit it into my budget because I can tell how much I am struggling without it. I found a trauma focused T that I absolutely clicked with, and I have done a few emdr sessions. For me, that approach brought results instantly. I really want to start it again.

I have also been researching the SE stuff since I have seen LnL mention it several times. I would like to read the books by Van der Kolk and Levine.

Is it possible for you to go to therapy again? You can research trauma focused therapy in your area and see what options there are. Some T use a combination of techniques to treat trauma and PTSD.

I am sorry that your last T was not helpful. This is why I think it is important to find a T that specializes in trauma, because some counselors are not trained to recognize or treat the effects of it.

Good luck with your search, and I think it's great that you are looking for answers instead of just pretending it will all go away. Trauma, if left untreated, does not simply resolve itself, and it affects many, many areas of our lives, including our interpersonal relationships.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[PeaceMom]

I will attempt to find another T who is trauma informed.
Hopefully others here will dig in to this “Emotional flashbacks” info as I see it has been discussed on this board in years past.
LNL-how about that mouse study where mice smelled cherry blossoms while being shocked then 3 later generations of mice still reacted with great fear to the cherry blossom smell with zero shock ever. If that’s not an an example of anxiety and fear triggered by a single, simple sensation, I don’t know what is.

My logical brain would never have let me believe that was possible, but it’s proof. 4 generations before the cherry blossom smell trigger went away! I have an aunt who is 83 and has been in weekly therapy for 50 years. I have thought to myself-now that is simply ridiculous, but what if she’s merely a second or 3rd generation of this mouse type study with no real, visible, likely threats living a sweet life full of lovely cherry blossoms smells that are scaring the He*L out of her? She is still reeling from the shock of a previous generation. Just terrible.

LNL- I’m encouraged that I will learn what Pete says is critical and that is to get back the healthy “Fight” instinct (usually this comes with righteous indignation) and this is where he sees true change in his clients who have been in Freeze mode, since we can’t Flee. He says once we FIGHT we turn shame to blame and put the blame where is rightfully belongs-on the adults who didn’t meet our childhood needs. Tricky when you had sweet yet, non intuitive, unhelpful, clueless parents.

Thanks for “co-counseling” with me here. You guys ROCK!

[PeaceMom]

After doing more reading about C-PTSD from Pete Walker’s website, I realized that something was missing when I’m trying to fit the profile. Then I discovered that another leading therapist, Janice Webb, coined the term C.E.N. (childhood emotional neglect) for when a parent thru acts of omission didn’t do enough to meet their child’s emotional needs. She has a checklist that actually is here on our BPD Family,, too. Way to go, Skip!

The problem is that if one experienced it,  then it is highly likely to pass down generation to generation. Typically, neither the parent nor the child are even aware of it because there is no overt verbal or physical abuse. . Bingo! That’s been where I’ve been struggling to call myself a victim and to place any type of blame on my clueless mom. I scored high on the test so this helps me figure out why I struggle knowing my own mind and being rock solid with standing up for my core values. These are some of the of the hallmarks.

I actually was victimized a handful of times in my youth by non family members and these were in no way any fault of my mom’s except for the fact that she was working and I was fending for myself. Parental Non-protection is listed as a huge factor in CEN.

Now that I can put a label on this more specific type of silent trauma, I can figure out how to heal. I can also see more clearly how high emotions in my kids invoked negative responses and or withdrawal from me. Bottom line-I am to blame for some of my kid’s BPD type behavior. I’m owning it and will commit to figuring out that I am “good enough” as a mother.

Can anyone else relate to being a CEN victim?

[Longterm]

  Peacemom.

Your posts resonate so much with what I'm currently experiencing so I wanted to let you know that you are not alone.

I have said before that I feel as though much of these issues are generational and how my lack of awareness (especially in my marriage) have contributed to my children's issues, I think your very brave to be facing these realisations as I know myself that it's not easy.

  That’s been where I’ve been struggling to call myself a victim and to place any type of blame on my clueless mom. 

It's difficult isn't it, and painful, I share this with you as I'm sure others do.

 I scored high on the test so this helps me figure out why I struggle knowing my own mind and being rock solid with standing up for my core values. These are some of the of the hallmarks.  

There is another test called the ACE test. Maybe you could take this and see what score your at. Theres only 10 questions but I found them very difficult to read, it made me think about how much I defined some events as "normal".

  Can anyone else relate to being a CEN victim?

Yes, and it hurts. As IAR said, why dont you venture over to PSI and talk it out? I was very scared/shamed at first but have found acceptance and understanding.

Wishing you well

LT.

[PeaceMom]

LT,

The ACE test is finally catching on as I read that every family practitioner should be adding that to their initial workup for all new patients.  I will take that one again too. Thanks for the reminder, LT.
Glad to hear from you again. I hope your family is stable. I will pop over to that board (I’ve never been) . I don’t think my parents were BPD, but they both had huge struggles. Sounds like ya’ll get pretty deep over there. I kind of overshare here because these parents are so lovely and compassionate. I set my pride aside and hope my nutty stories help someone else.

I’ll see you over on the PSI board when I can formulate a sensible post!

[Longterm]

Glad to hear from you again. I hope your family is stable 

Thank you  kids are stable at present.

Sounds like ya’ll get pretty deep over there. I kind of overshare here because these parents are so lovely and compassionate. I set my pride aside and hope my nutty stories help someone else.    

Indeed. I agree. The stories dont seem so nutty I find, when we share with others who have similar struggles. I think all contributions can help others.

I’ll see you over on the PSI board when I can formulate a sensible post! 

I look forward to your post, I have found much realisations and insight, I hope you do too 

LT.