I really am glad I am free

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

This thread was split from this discussion: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=339660.0

I just set a boundary for her and I need to stick to it.

She has been sending me 10 emails a day and I stupidly replied to some in the morning.

I just asked her to keep her emails constructive and send me 1 email a day. I said at night I will read only the most recent email and reply just before I go to sleep.

I need to be firm tomorrow and do that.

[MrRight]

This thread was split from this discussion: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=339660.0

I just set a boundary for her and I need to stick to it.

She has been sending me 10 emails a day and I stupidly replied to some in the morning.

I just asked her to keep her emails constructive and send me 1 email a day. I said at night I will read only the most recent email and reply just before I go to sleep.

I need to be firm tomorrow and do that.

[ct21218]

That's not a boundary.  You can't make her do or not do anything.  Your boundary would be I will respond once a day.  Or you can choose not to respond at all if she is not being constructive.  You can only control your behavior.

[ct21218]

Sorry just missed your last sentence, that's reasonable.

[CoherentMoose]

MrRight,
Congratulations on embarking on your new life!    A significant accomplishment.  What's that saying...a journey of 1000 miles starts with the first step... Are you eating well?  Exercising? Getting good sleep?  Are you considering something completely new you've always wanted to try?  Hope so.  Dream big!  Again, congratulations and keep taking those steps to your new life.  jdc

PS: Enjoy your father.  I lost mine last year.  He was 83.  He is missed.

[MrRight]

MrRight,
Congratulations on embarking on your new life!    A significant accomplishment.  What's that saying...a journey of 1000 miles starts with the first step... Are you eating well?  Exercising? Getting good sleep?  Are you considering something completely new you've always wanted to try?  Hope so.  Dream big!  Again, congratulations and keep taking those steps to your new life.  jdc

PS: Enjoy your father.  I lost mine last year.  He was 83.  He is missed.

.
Thanks. Being with dad is great. But I am looking for a flat.

My wife suddenly became reasonable and we have agreed terms. We sell and she gets that capital. I keep the business. This is fair as I have an income to take out of the marriage and she does not. I will also save  a lot of money when the house is sold.

But she seized on a comment I made and suddenly started trying to get me back which feels like we have taken 2 steps forward and 1 back. I just emailed her to say my decision is final and I asked her to stop trying to persuade me to return.

She also accused me of attacking her when I made it clear I had no issues with her appearance but only her volatile character. She denies having such a character.

I really am glad to be free.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi Mr.R-

Glad to hear that you’re doing well... yes, FREEDOM!

So regarding the 2 steps forward 1step back issue, have you considered NOT engaging at all in personal discussions?

No discussions about personal appearance, her behavior, her RAGES, violent behavior or anything.  You’re OUT.  Nothing else to discuss aside from asset division.  Maybe limit email discussions to business topics.  And simply “Not coming back”.

Otherwise you’ll find yourself in the JADE department, having to tippy toe again, and you do NOT need to waste any time or effort on that!

Enjoy yourself everyday.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[MrRight]

Yes Gems I realise that now.

So I am only commenting on business though she is still full of blame etc and she is piling obligations on me - trying to demonstrate how incredibly inconvenient and expense life is now that I have gone. I dont comment on that.

However we do have an agreement on the assets and it is just a case of patience. It has only been 1 week and I think in reality her denial phase will last some time yet.

I actually bought a book while I was out the other day - wow - a book that I want to read - not one that she buys for me and tells me to read it.

Still I am damned annoyed with her for travelling to see our son - took the dog and made him walk the dog for 6 hours while she attended a business meeting. She said to him - well blame your father for that.

I have advised him to go to the university counselling service as I think he needs professional support. Its free and I think could be very helpful. I would take some therapy myself but dont have any spare money until the house is sold.

[Gemsforeyes]

Wow... a book of your own choosing.  That really shines an extra light on things for you, doesn’t it?

Counseling through the university for your dear son sounds like a great idea.  I think we had briefly touched on this earlier in the thread.  This would be SO beneficial for him.  He’s just got to be dedicated to telling the entire truth about her behaviors to a therapist.  He needs to understand that he is NOT responsible for her behaviors, so he bears no “shame”.

Does your son know the full extent of the abuse you endured?

From what you can see, What is the relationship between your stbxW and your son like?

Although I obviously know little about your stbxW, it sounds like she may also has some strong Narc traits.  What’s your take on that? It’s sickening and selfish that she made your S walk the dog for 6 hours.  She honestly couldn’t find a more suitable alternative?

There may be something specific for you (and your son) to watch out for as time progresses, but we can talk about that later.

Have a good and restful Sunday.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[MrRight]

Wow... a book of your own choosing.  That really shines an extra light on things for you, doesn’t it?

Counseling through the university for your dear son sounds like a great idea.  I think we had briefly touched on this earlier in the thread.  This would be SO beneficial for him.  He’s just got to be dedicated to telling the entire truth about her behaviors to a therapist.  He needs to understand that he is NOT responsible for her behaviors, so he bears no “shame”.

Does your son know the full extent of the abuse you endured?

From what you can see, What is the relationship between your stbxW and your son like?

Although I obviously know little about your stbxW, it sounds like she may also has some strong Narc traits.  What’s your take on that? It’s sickening and selfish that she made your S walk the dog for 6 hours.  She honestly couldn’t find a more suitable alternative?

There may be something specific for you (and your son) to watch out for as time progresses, but we can talk about that later.

Have a good and restful Sunday.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

First suicide threat just received. She's on her way home on the train after a wretched time for my son basically walking around the city for 6 hours. She has emailed me from the train and said she wont go home unless I call her.

I did not reply.

Narcissistic traits? Yes that's what makes her so dangerous - lack of empathy - puts her own needs first at the expense of others suffering. She has many traits including excessive admiration for big achievers - pumps up her own achievements etc and massive entitlement complex.

Yes my son has witnessed it lives with it day by day. He is glad Im out of it. But she can turn on him too just for saying the wrong thing.

My son is exhausted by her. He tries to be supportive since she is the mother - but he lies to her a lot. She took him 30 KG of fruit and veg - he will most likely throw most of it away and tell her he is eating it. She has inflicted abuse on him in the past including insisting he eat huge portions of food. Last time he was sick and she raged at him over it. You get the picture.

She wants me to come to the house to collect some items of furniture but I wont do it when she is there - she might just take her chance and put a knife in me.

[Lucky Jim]

she is still full of blame etc and she is piling obligations on me - trying to demonstrate how incredibly inconvenient and expense life is now that I have gone.

Hey Mr. R, I can see the F-O-G rolling in from here!

First suicide threat just received. She's on her way home on the train after a wretched time for my son basically walking around the city for 6 hours. She has emailed me from the train and said she wont go home unless I call her.

More F-O-G, I'm afraid.  She is trying to twist your arm and the threat of suicide is the ultimate manipulation.  I should know, because my BPDxW threatened suicide at least 10-12 times.

Suggest you continue to hold your ground and stay above the F-O-G.  So far, you are doing remarkably well.  I admire your courage, so keep up the good work.

Keep us posted,
LuckyJim

[MrRight]

Hey Mr. R, I can see the F-O-G rolling in from here!

More F-O-G, I'm afraid.  She is trying to twist your arm and the threat of suicide is the ultimate manipulation.  I should know, because my BPDxW threatened suicide at least 10-12 times.

Suggest you continue to hold your ground and stay above the F-O-G.  So far, you are doing remarkably well.  I admire your courage, so keep up the good work.

Keep us posted,
LuckyJim

Well she is raging against me one email and the next she is begging me to return. Blaming her woes on me and saying it will be on my head if she perishes etc.

She accuses me of leaving her for a woman and says the fact I wont give her another chance proves it.

But what's nice about all this B/S is I can reply how I like and not get a kick between the legs! Lovely isnt it when you don't live with a BPD freak.

We have each agreed on a separation plan. It mainly involves my obligations but in return there is a promise on her part to co-operate with the sale of the house. Have had legal advice to go for a divorce on grounds of unreasonable behaviour. Really not sure. Would prefer to get the house sold first and wait for a no fault divorce after 2 years separation. She would contest unreasonable behaviour and that could be costly.

Apart from that - saw a flat today and looks ok plus in a nice area where we lived with our son for his first 8 years so lots of memories - should be moving in next week.

[MeandThee29]

The love-hate cycle is impossible to process rationally, so don't. It's very hard on them, but you have a choice. You don't have to live with that.

The adultery accusation may be projection or looking for something else to get you with. My lawyer recommends no dating until the divorce is final, and I said, "NO PROBLEM." I have enough trouble with me, LOL. I do suspect that was being surveilled and followed for that at one point, but believe me, they got nothing.

[Lucky Jim]

But what's nice about all this B/S is I can reply how I like and not get a kick between the legs! Lovely isnt it when you don't live with a BPD freak.

Hey Mr. R, It is nice, isn't it?  Suggest you continue to resist her attempts to get you re-engaged in the BPD quagmire.  Pay attention to her manipulations/threats and resist the need to respond in knee-jerk fashion, which you are doing well.  I used to have a special folder to move my Ex's abusive email messages.  Sometimes I read them; sometimes not.  Sometimes I forwarded them to my sister and let her tell me if there was anything that I needed to respond to.  Suggest you continue to stay firm with your boundaries and keep us posted.

LJ

[Peaceandhealing]

Hi there Mr R,
the suicide threats are something that I know about! My ex used to do this regularly and then when I finally left he stepped it all up several notches. The only thing that you can do is not engage. It really isn't your responsibility and there is nothing that you can do. I'd definitely advise the counselling for your son. Are you based in the UK? My son went to the doctors and got a diagnosis of anxiety and depression which meant that he has had a whole year of free weekly counselling- which has been massively beneficial.
To keep me on track when my ex went right off the deep end when we split I wrote a list of almost "rules" for myself and kept them with me at all times- things like I will not read abusive emails. I will only reply to questions about practical matters. I will not answer the phone but will let it go to message. I will only communicate through email. Etc. Etc. It really helped keep me on track.
P and H x

[Panda39]

I think Peaceandhealing makes a good suggestion about therapy for your son. 

In my Partner's case his ex in the beginning of their separation used their children to fill the void of his leaving.  That is not a healthy place for kids to be. (they were 15 & 11at the time)

A therapist can be a good sounding board for your son and have ideas for coping with mom.

Panda39

[MrRight]

Thanks for all your helpful replies.

the suicide threats have passed. She wont kill herself - while she can create trouble for me she will want to keep herself alive.

She has still power over me and she knows it. I need her co-operation to sell the house. She does want to sell too - as she wants to move and be close to her son. But she is using the house as leverage to engage with me and communicate. Her latest demand is that I drive in a rented van to the house and take away my office furniture plus I spend time with her using the van to dump rubbish off at the local facility - something that would be a good idea to sell the house. But I don't want to get back into her company. I have given  her some good alternatives for getting rid of the junk - I can do without the furniture and there are people who will, for a price - take stuff away. I have offered to pay for this.

She sends me too many emails for me to read - long too - a lot of sarcasm - then appeals for me to return - insults etc. I haven't told her yet but if the house is not sold within 1 year I am going to stop her payments and Im gonna stop paying all the bills and inform the power company etc I am no longer there. I will just continue to pay the mortgage. I may bring this forward if she does not co-operate with the sale of the house. I am not telling her this as she will accuse me of threatening and bullying her.

She has been on skype with her mum a lot - her mum was also left by her husband. So they have lots in common. And as her mum labelled her daughter a black sheep when she was young and her sister was the golden child - she deserves to endure some of the fallout of her mis parenting. But her mum has said I ran to a woman and she believes it.

I will be moving to my new flat next week - not far from where my dad lives so have plenty of support here.

Will keep you all posted.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi Mr.Right-

Just checking in to see how you’re doing?  I hope very well.

I’m sure your stbxW continues to email plenty and I hope you’re able to keep your responses to a minimum.  I’m pretty scared for you to go to the house unaccompanied by authorities.

Your W has been so violent in the past.  Please keep this at the front of your mind if you consider going to the property.  Your personal safety has to take precedence over ANY material items.

How is your dear son doing?  Has he signed up for therapy yet at university?

Sorry for being so pushy here with the codependent advice giving.  You didn’t ask.  Bad me.

Looking forward to hearing your update.  And so happy you’re living and sleeping in freedom and peace!

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[MrRight]

Hi Mr.Right-

Just checking in to see how you’re doing?  I hope very well.

I’m sure your stbxW continues to email plenty and I hope you’re able to keep your responses to a minimum.  I’m pretty scared for you to go to the house unaccompanied by authorities.

Your W has been so violent in the past.  Please keep this at the front of your mind if you consider going to the property.  Your personal safety has to take precedence over ANY material items.

How is your dear son doing?  Has he signed up for therapy yet at university?

Sorry for being so pushy here with the codependent advice giving.  You didn’t ask.  Bad me.

Looking forward to hearing your update.  And so happy you’re living and sleeping in freedom and peace!

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

Thanks Gemsforeyes

I think I am over the honeymoon period of my freedom and many realities are sinking in. It kind of feels like I am back to square one where I was when all this started 18 years ago. I was getting my life together then and making progress when I met her - I had issues - and still have those issues. Only now I am 55 and then I was 37. Im in a far worse position now than I was then.  But hey - I would rather be here than back with her.

I have my flat now and am busy furnishing it. It's quite exhausting making a new home for myself on top of everything else I have to do. Have not moved yet but will do so next week. Its good to have my dad and sister around and they have been very supportive. My dad asked me today how did I know he would take me in. I said because blood is thicker than water - and he knows what kind of partner I married. His wife, my stepmother told me it has done him a lot of good to have me around.

The wife has been in touch with agents about selling the house and we are hoping to get it on the market in a week or two.

It's all moving in the right direction - its cosy living at my dads house and  for me the next big test will be living on my own.

will keep you posted

all the best

MrRight

[Gemsforeyes]

Hey MR-

I’m so glad to hear that things are falling nicely into place for you and yes, I’m sure with some quiet time you’re sure to see things about yourself you haven’t seen for those 18 years.  This is actually a good observation.  A great observation.  

Recognizing that the issues you had at 37 you still have at 55 is nothing to carry shame over, my friend.  Please bear in mind that all these years you’ve worked to keep your Son safe and your BPDw “happy”.  There was no time to address your own needs.  No real time for your own growth and self-reflection.  Now you’ll have that time, to focus on YOU.  That’s a good thought, right?

I’ll bet it’s cozy being with supportive family, and just hearing that validation from your stepmom must feel so great inside.  People WANT to be near you.

Take your time setting up your new home.  You’ll settle in, move things around the space over the weeks once you’re in there; maybe pick up little decorative things that please you at festivals and such.  You’ll learn YOUR “tastes” in time.

Its good to hear your stbxW is speaking with real estate agents.  I don’t need to tell you to keep your guard up when it comes to any and all communication with your W.  Her motives are not pure or in YOUR best interests.

Finally, once you move use care not to isolate.  Some rumination may begin to creep in, so please don’t be surprised or angry at yourself if this happens.  And reach out if and when it does.

I’m not sure you know, but I left a 19-year abusive relationship/ marriage when I was 53.  Met him when I was 34.  Our marriage T recently told me my ex-husband has NPD with some BPD traits.  He was a bad man.  

I just turned 62.  I found that my own issues came bolting to the surface recently and I was forced to meet them head on.  I’d stuffed them down for years as I twisted myself inside out  trying to keep the men in my life “happy”.  This realization turned into a GREAT thing.  My uBPDbf (6 years) began to see the changes in me and has responded in very surprising and positive ways.  

So MR, I believe you CAN have the love you want.  On your terms.

PleaseTake good care.  You deserve so much happiness and you’ve got many great years ahead of you.

Warmly,
Gems

[MrRight]

Thanks Gems.

Well I did go down to the house at the weekend to help sort out all the rubbish there in preparation for the sale.

I did not her want to do it frankly - but accept its not really fair to lump the whole thing on her - and besides I felt I would have to face her sooner or later.

When I got there and saw what she had planned I wanted to turn and go.

She put on all the charm she could - sexy clothes etc - nice meal prepared. Made it very difficult.

I was trying to stay cool - but it all turned into accusations and counter accusations. She admitted behaving badly but this was because of the debt etc etc. I had hidden things from her. If I come back and start with a clean slate we can make it. We will sell the house - erase the debt - find a smaller place and live happily close to where our son studies. 

We spend the whole day on this and basically I ended up staying the night in her bed (nothing happened) as it was not feasible to drive back to my dads and I wanted to get it over with. Im afraid I am no match for her and the only way to stop doing what she wants me to do is avoid her. In the morning we went to a cafe for breakfast and then did the jobs we intended to do. I left at 6 in the evening after promising to consider re-uniting with her. She is also saying it is affecting our son badly - nonsense as he supports me but she doesn't know that - he is being the good son for her and saying what a bad thing I have done.

She has also asked if I can come for christmas day as our son will be there and it would be nice to have the family together. I did not give an answer to that. I would like to see him of course but dont want to encourage any idea that I am coming back.

Not sure what else to say - it feels a bit like I have taken a step back.

However I am moving into my new flat in a few days and trying to focus on that. I cant regulate what she does or think and cant stop the emails etc - I keep my replies down to a few words.

Well keep your fingers crossed for me - this is so difficult. The honeymoon period of freedom certainly over and reality is kicking in.

[ct21218]

Just keep moving forward and I would advise NOT going back to the house.  Remember that day she humiliated you at the mall about using the bathroom?  Keep that fresh in your mind, that's who you would be returning to.  I don't care what you hid from her, nothing justifies her behavior.  The charm is an act, you saw who she really is at the mall that day.

If you want to see your son on Christmas, have him come to your place or meet you at your dad's.  No good will come of you going back to that house.

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear MrR-

I am not at all surprised at how the visit went, or how you’re feeling.  And I’m not surprised that your stbxW dressed in sexy clothing and cooked a nice meal. 

Her “mission” is to remind you of what you’re “throwing away”.  Please don’t feel badly or that you’ve taken a “step back”.  Even though you slept in the same bed, you didn’t have sex and you felt you needed to stay and finish the clean-up.  Even if you did have sex, that would NOT have meant a commitment to return.

Your MISSION is to bring the extreme abuse front and center to your mind.  This is a hard one... her charm and manipulation will likely be turned to full ON for the next several weeks.  I believe what may help you is to journal and specifically write out the abuse you endured.  You’ve got to remember... please go back and read older posts you’ve written- how she publicly humiliated you, hit you, berated you, counted each moment of your time, demanded you work HARDER.  And no, just NO... having incurred debt is NO EXCUSE for what she’s done to you over the last 18 years.

She’s blaming YOU for her violent and extremely abusive behavior.  That is NOT her taking responsibility.  Not in any way, shape or form.

My friend, if you’re not in a position to see a T, then bring these things here and talk, more than just periodic updates.  Stay present with what you’ve been through, and how damaging her behaviors are.  Not “were”.  ARE.

As much as we want to bury and forget our trauma, you’re in a vulnerable position, a vulnerable time.  It’s too dangerous for you to enter what I refer to “The Delusion of Forgive and Forget”.

So please stay with us.  Please don’t forget what that abuse feels like.  And how difficult it was for you to escape.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Mr. R, Ditto to what Gems wrote.  Remember, you have escaped from a type of prison.  I suggest you keep your distance and limit communication to email, where you can control the flow and disregard as needed.  Those w/BPD can be quite convincing and persuasive when they choose to, so in my view it's best to decline to engage w/her in person.  She's not your friend.  Keep up the good work!

LJ

[MrRight]

Hey Mr. R, Ditto to what Gems wrote.  Remember, you have escaped from a type of prison.  I suggest you keep your distance and limit communication to email, where you can control the flow and disregard as needed.  Those w/BPD can be quite convincing and persuasive when they choose to, so in my view it's best to decline to engage w/her in person.  She's not your friend.  Keep up the good work!

LJ

Thanks - its very unsettling and hard knowing that she is out there plotting etc and thinking about ways to convince me to return.

Im in a tough spot - from what I have read on this board - a lot of the time - it is the pwBPD that ends it - leaving wreckage behind. Thats tough too of course - but at least you have the knowledge that the pwBPD is doing you a kind of favour.

This is going to drag on until the house has sold and maybe beyond. On a positive note I am talking to the agents and she has had someone at the house providing a valuation.

[Lucky Jim]

Actually, I think you're in a good spot, because for the first time in a long time you are calling the shots.  You're doing what's right for you, which gives you an advantage, provided you keep good boundaries and don't get drawn back into the BPD swamp.  It took guts to leave and you are a lot stronger than you might think.  Keep going on your new path!

LJ

[MrRight]

Oh guys.

This is a tough post to put down. You have all given me such wonderful support.

I am going back to by wife.

I have not gone back yet - I could send her an email right now and reverse what we have agreed. But I dont want to.

Im afraid there is just too much unfinished business between us. We have an agreement. Im coming back to help with selling the house. We are also going to try again as a couple. If it doesnt work - after the house is sold - we will separate. I stated to her everything about her behaviour and she admits what she did - blames it on the debt pressure etc - but says she would rather lose the house than me.

Well I know what you are thinking - we've all heard this before.

Maybe she will keep her word - maybe she wont. But there are other factors. My son is very young still - under 17 - and he will certainly be coming back to the family home for all the holidays/vacations - some 4-5 months of the year. With me living in another city I dont know how much of him I might see. Maybe very little. I got to thinking that leaving him alone with her and not seeing him during these times while I am trying to build a new life - somehow just doesnt appeal to me. As the time I most value in life is the time I spend with him.

I cant do it - and so I am returning. I am currently tying up all the loose ends here which will take several days.

It was very difficult to tell my father and other relatives about this. They are sceptical and disappointed - while wishing me the best.

Im not the first non to go back to a pwBPD and wont be the last.

Wish me luck and thank you for all your support.

[Gemsforeyes]

Oh MR, I am scared for you, but I do understand the pull, and the worry for your teen son.  I do hold the best hope for you and deeply appreciate your honesty.  PLEASE continue to post on the IMPROVING board.

I hope one of your conditions to return (you are ALLOWED conditions) is to maintain ongoing contact and visits with your dad and sister, WITH your son.  If things are to change with your W, this is one of the things that must change, right?  

Please use care to enforce strict boundaries around your self care, and her physical and emotional abuse.  And think carefully BEFORE you return.  Please be mindful.  You know why you left.

My BPDbf and I broke up last night.. these relationships can be so painful and difficult to navigate, even without the involvement of children.

I wish you the best - for you and your son.

What DOES you son think of your return?

Why does she blame her physical attacks on the “debt” pressure?  Do you accept that explanation?

Warmly,
Gems

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Mr. R, Many of us, including me, have recycled, so you are not alone in your decision to give it another try.  It's OK, and only you know what is right for you.  I echo Gems that this is the right time to firm impose firm boundaries about living free from abuse.  Abuse, I submit, is unacceptable in any relationship.  Freedom to keep in close contact with your family would be another boundary, I assume.

Those w/BPD can be very convincing, but their actions often belie their words.  So be careful and keep us posted.

I wonder whether you may discover that some fundamental change occurred while you experienced a taste of freedom.  Time will tell.

Good luck!

LuckyJim

[MrRight]

Thanks LuckyJim and Gems.

Well we did talk about keeping in touch with my dad etc - she says she wants it. Im afraid she is not keen on seeing them herself as she believes I have ruined her name by giving details about our relationship and why I left. She is right about that. I did explain to my relatives that I left due to abuse. So its no going to be easy for them to look at her and feel good about her. I would certainly not be going back but for my son - there were financial headaches too of course.

I have laid down many conditions.

Did she have some genuine self reflection while I was away. Not sure - I doubt it. I suspect she is trying to appear reasonable and reformed for now - but I do expect her to relapse. I need to get that house sold - which could easily take a year. My son will also be a year older. No he did not want me to go back - but that's not a life choice I could allow him to make for me. He will need me to be around during the holiday periods - spending too much time with just his mother is not a good thing for him.

OK I will go to another board as I am no longer detaching but tolerating and improving.

Again - thanks for all your support.

[Gemsforeyes]

Perhaps you can consider signing on with a T (for you), and not in secret, immediately upon your return so you are accountable to discuss what’s taking place in real time.  Tell your W before you return.  And your W can have some food for thought.   Let her know the emotional pain you feel, the healing that must take place.  This could keep your W in check... maybe?

Trying a bit of preemptive action for you... to help you.

Warmly,
Gems