Part 2: UBPD SIL toxic behaviour update

[Depression = 72% of members]

Mod Note:  Part 1 is here   https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=339972.0;all

Jareth89 yes, that is what I meant.  It seems that my brother has a need to show hostility to his FOO in order to keep convincing his wife (SIL) of his allegiance to her.  He continues to do this even when she is not around.  He is curt and very jumpy around us, constantly checking his phone for messages from her as she is calling him or texting him pretty much the whole time.  

He could only ever speak with any of us on the phone when he was in transit to or from work as he was never able to communicate from home. Any other calls on the odd occasion were always put onto speakerphone (I assume so she could listen in).

What a way to have to live your life...

[Four Winds]

Mod Note:  Part 1 is here   https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=339972.0;all

Jareth89 yes, that is what I meant.  It seems that my brother has a need to show hostility to his FOO in order to keep convincing his wife (SIL) of his allegiance to her.  He continues to do this even when she is not around.  He is curt and very jumpy around us, constantly checking his phone for messages from her as she is calling him or texting him pretty much the whole time.  

He could only ever speak with any of us on the phone when he was in transit to or from work as he was never able to communicate from home. Any other calls on the odd occasion were always put onto speakerphone (I assume so she could listen in).

What a way to have to live your life...

[Harri]

What a way to have to live your life...

What a way to choose to live your life.  It is incredibly sad.

[Four Winds]

Yes...quite right...to choose to live your life.  He has made a bad choice which has affected not just him, but his children, his good friends and his family who all love and care for him.

[Notwendy]

That's what I thought you meant when you said it is part of his strategy.

I don't excuse it. He is responsible for his behavior. However, I don't think virtue- or not virtuous is the exact way to put it. It's not only about morality- it's actions under extreme stress and duress. For example, it isn't virtuous to steal, but if someone was starving and stole some food, one might say they were desperate, rather than not virtuous.

Perhaps I see it this way because I witnessed first hand how my mother treated my father to get her way and she was ruthless, cruel and persistent. Eventually, my father would give in to her demands to just get a moment of peace. It didn't work in the long run, but in the moment it gave him some reprieve. Someone might go to jail for stealing food but in the moment, if they are starving, stealing food would relieve it. I didn't see him as not without morals or virtue, but as desperate in the moment.

As much as our relative's behavior to us is hurtful ( father, brother) - what they are experiencing when others are not there to see it is likely far far worse than how they have treated us. People outside the immediate family might have a glimpse of my mother's issues if they look closely enough. They have no clue what goes on when others can not see.

I saw plenty of this as the child at home with my parents and as an adult child as well. And it was more than anyone outside the family saw. But what I didn't see what was what went on between my parents when it was just them. I have seen enough to know what it probably is. Perhaps this is why my perspective is less judgmental. It is tough to stand up to my mother- and I don't live in the same house as she does. My father did.

[Jareth89]

Yes...quite right...to choose to live your life.  He has made a bad choice which has affected not just him, but his children, his good friends and his family who all love and care for him.

Yeah, a controlling mother can't be correctly nurturing and a passive father lacks the masculinity component of the parenting partnership. It's a perversion of the normal parenting structure and is a faulty relationship template for children to emulate.
FourWinds, what about your sil's parents/family...did they enable her? I read a post by one member who felt deceived by the parents of the pwbpd...the mother actually stated upon her being married 'I'm glad she's no longer our burden'. I reckon this is exactly the scenario with my sil. What about your sil's family?

[Jareth89]

I don't want to distract from FourWinds personal experience here, but Meghan Markle is suspected to have a PD and it's playing out in the public domain - you can see the effect she has had on Harry (submissive, victim's advocate) and how their relationship has caused him to drift apart from  William/Catherine...all driven by Markle. It's just very interesting to see this going on right now. I'm not a 'royal watcher' but Harry was always close to William and especially close to Catherine who he viewed as a sister...so interesting to see those treasured bonds weakening  - a testament to the destructive power these women can have and the spell they cast over their men. Hopefully he will wake up.

[Four Winds]

Jareth89, replying to your question regarding the SIL’s parents/family. Unlike your SIL’s situation, her family has not played much of a role.  However, her family situation / upbringing is quite likely to have had some bearing on her PD and fear of abandonment issues (but I would prefer to not go into any more details here). 

[Jareth89]

I then use this as my opportunity to explain to him what I think is the matter and what I think is behind all this unnecessary drama.  It’s like a curtain falling away from his eyes, he breaks down in tears and he actually agrees that there is a problem, he is aware that things are not right and haven’t been right for some time, he then says he knows he has to do something about this as he fears that she will target the children next.

The next day was the worse day ever, overnight she had an enormous extinction burst, the worst rage and drama he had ever experienced.  He then tells me that I am wrong, that no his wife does not have this problem (although he does admit that she does tick the boxes for some of the criteria for bpd/npd, but definitely not for all of them..). And then it gets worse, much much much worse.  Years of much worse.

Was the fact he thought she didn't tick all of the boxes the reason for him rejecting the diagnosis? He acknowledges the behaviours are abnormal and associated with those conditions but rejects the diagnosis?

My brother seemed so relieved after the penny dropped that this might be what was wrong, but I specifically requested that he please NOT tell his wife about the BPD/NPD issue as this would not be in her best interests and would create more problems for him.  I think that he told her, or that she extracted the details of what we talked about out of him (they “share everything”) and that this was what sparked her huge reaction.  I now assume that everything we discuss will be relayed back to her.

Do you know why he did that, knowing that you had forewarned him and he would know what the consequences would be to himself and to his FOO? Why does he need to share this?

he did however say during one heated conversation that he could never ever face up to or admit that she had something like this wrong with her because then everything he has worked so hard for regarding her in his life would all be for nothing.

This is what is facing my brother and ultimately any man in this scenario. It's a monumental, unpleasant thing to have to tell someone, but it's reality and better to face it now. This is going to hit him hard. Your brother needs a psychologist, especially since he admitted that hostility to his FOO was a 'strategy'. If he did see a psychologist, do you think it would make a difference to his life plans? Don't know how you kept going with this for 17yrs Four Winds. I've had 2 yrs and I'm done and just want some kind of positive resolution.