Mom Gets Her Revenge, Pt.2

[TelHill]

I’m venting and will tell this here only.  I thought it would be less mom drama if I left my parents’ house early without telling anyone I was going to my house for a few hours. I called my dad when I got there. I returned & received my favorite silent treatment.

I woke up at 2am and had a cup of tea to calm me down. I felt better, put the cup in the sink & returned to bed. I got up at 7am before my parents and reused the tea mug from a few hours earlier. Did not wash it. I never do between the 1st & second cups. I sipped the tea & got a nasty surprise. Someone had put a bit of Ajax cleanser (the powered one with bleach) in the cup. It was just enough to give me a taste of it and irritate my throat.

Mom went out of her way to get the Ajax from the garage, sprinkle a tiny bit, & let me have it. There was nothing else in the sink. She never cleans between 2:30am -7am.

I’ve caught her putting extra salt or oil in food I’m cooking for myself. I’ve told her I’m careful with both due to health concerns beforehand. She does this to show me she’s boss, I guess.

The Ajax is scary though. That is sort of bordering on criminal.

Telling my dad or brother will backfire. They will accuse me of being crazy. My mom will accuse me of being the no good liar she knew I always was.

Standing up for my boundaries is not working well.  She fights back without a conscience. Am rethinking care giving. Am scared & have no family to confide in.

[TelHill]

Replying to my own post. If the mods don’t believe me or think this may be triggering, I understand if you remove it. It felt good to express this somewhere.

[Harri]

Hi Telhill.

I am sorry this happened.  It must be horrible to feel this way and my heart goes out to you.

 

[Turkish]

Is there any situation where you can think of this as a mistake, like you left out a dirty mug? She was just going though a cleaning rampage?

Did you save it for evidence? That would be hard to disprove.

[Notwendy]

I believe it.

It's hard to know what your mother's intentions are. Mine gets furious if anything of hers is moved or out of place. Leaving a dirty dish or mug in her sink could set her off. I don't dare do this. I barely cook or eat at her house as it is because if there is anything like a crumb on the floor, she would find it. If I made a cup of tea, I would wash and put the mug away immediately.

I could see my mother possibly doing something like this if she was enraged, not with any intent to harm, but with intent to clean something left out. She usually makes me do the dishes. She tends to see me as someone to do things for her and so she would have me do it rather than do it, but also she may do this in anger.

Why the Ajax? Tea or coffee in a mug can stain and she may have left it in there to soak and get it out of the mug, or she cleaned the mug in there but didn't rinse it carefully. Intent to harm you could be a possible reason, but it's not possible to know her intent and it could also have been there for other reasons.

Whatever the reason, I think it's best to err on the safe side and wash any dishes or cups you use carefully before you use them. Also, prepare your own food/drinks and don't leave them unwatched. You might even consider keeping your own tea/sugar or anything else you put in it separate where she can't get to it. If she's that careless or dysfunctional this means being more careful.

I don't stay with my mother when I visit. I don't want to be alone with her in the house where nobody else is there. I have stayed there if other family members are there too. I don't think she'd harm me, but it's emotionally difficult. Something small like a dish in a sink could result in disregulation and I would rather avoid that. It may be a hassle but you might consider not eating or drinking there- going out for a meal or cup of tea.

[TelHill]

Thank you, all!

I have left the dirty tea mug in the sink before w/o incident. She has not cleaned in the middle of the night when I’ve been here, but who knows for sure.

I don’t think the intent was to harm or clean up.  It was to warn to stop setting boundaries, in my opinion. It’s an extinction burst.

I will rinse out mugs, glasses before use. I will eat out or cook my meal when they are watching TV mass. Will make one serving/throw out leftovers.

[Notwendy]

This would not surprise me. My mother has inadvertently caused harm when she is dis regulated. She does want to hurt - that is clear. She wants to cause pain because she is in emotional"pain" and sees herself as a victim. But I don't think she would go so far as to poison someone or have them drink/eat something seriously harmful on purpose. She could possibly inadvertently do it.

Regardless, the main boundary is: protect yourself. Whatever the intent of someone else is- that part you can't control. You can control what you eat or drink and what utensils, plate, cup you use - so it makes sense to do that.

[gotbushels]

TelHill  

I join the others in the "I believe it's possible".

The issue I think with things like this is that this person may put just enough to spoil your tea, but not so much to be visible.

I think if we impute / suppose / consider motives for the difficult person in our lives, it can be quite a slippery slope. In some ways, it gets us nowhere—many of us here have already learned that this person has X mental disorder; and we already know Y good strategies—to manage Z behaviours by them.

If I put myself in your position—something that would help me in this situation is to not share cups with her altogether. Buy your own, wash your own, and don't keep the cup in a place that isn't supervised. I think I'm with Notwendy in the strategy to protect yourself. If you're around a person whom you can't trust (or who doesn't share your methods of house maintenance), then it seems to me the easiest thing for you is don't leave yourself open to situations like this—it's a waste of your time. And we haven't even talked about the gaslighting thing in this example.

Personally, I wouldn't engage her. You being the more competent one in the pair (higher executive function)—I think the responsibility is on you to create a way to not engage her, but to get what you want. The separate treatment of things that you rely on to feed yourself I think is one way.

I hope you keep your peace.  

[TelHill]

I’m doing all of these things and keeping myself safe.  I don’t want to be here any more. My parents don’t need anyone here for a few days straight.

FOG is keeping me here. I want to assist according to real needs. They are asking me to sacrifice my life for their comfort - sell my place, have them be my only friends. It’s abusive.

 I am taking the indirect, quiet approach to getting back to work and meeting friends.

Mom flung herself on the floor this morning. (I heard no loud thump signaling a real fall.) I told her you are a bit shocked that you are on the floor. Give yourself a few minutes. I know you are able to pick yourself up. She did. She is in bed pouting giving me the silent treatment. She is doing this to dad too.

I’m de-enmeshing myself. She has to be held accountable for some part of her poor behavior choices. That’s setting boundaries. If anyone asks why I’m dialing back, mom has mental health challenges. She is better off under a doctor’s care

[gotbushels]

TelHill   

A few ideas and a few questions for you.

I don’t want to be here any more.

What are you doing to make this happen? Curious as to your method.

FOG is keeping me here. I want to assist according to real needs.

Which part? The fear, obligation, or guilt?

They are asking me to sacrifice my life for their comfort - sell my place, have them be my only friends. It’s abusive.

What was your decision regarding your place and your other relationships?

[TelHill]

TelHill   

A few ideas and a few questions for you.
What are you doing to make this happen? Curious as to your method.

The slow, quiet fade by keeping up boundaries, and my expecting her to try everything under the sun to subvert my wishes.  Also, expecting I will be effected by it over and over. The latter has helped a lot.

Which part? The fear, obligation, or guilt?

All. A lot of it is from my interpretation of my religion. Having a difficult life due to bpd mom is bad enough. Then going to h3ll after death because I failed to honor my parents when I had the chance to on earth is scary.

What was your decision regarding your place and your other relationships?

Keeping my place. That's non-negotiable.  I told my mom I'd sell her first before selling my place. Still working on getting other relationships.  I had a handyman at my place to fix a few things. I brought my dad because I never met the guy before. The handyman was flirting with me! The handyman did a good job but my dad was telling me the guy was not a good worker and was very cold to him. That's unusual. He likes to bond with men; mom doesn't like dad to have friends either.

So, that's the state of platonic and romantic relationships. I have to hide them.  PS, Not interested in the handyman; has nothing to do with dad.

[Turkish]

Having a difficult life due to bpd mom is bad enough. Then going to h3ll after death because I failed to honor my parents when I had the chance to on earth is scary.

Tough choice, suffer now to be rewarded later, or to be free only to be punished later.  There's a lot to unpack here, and this is a common struggle within other traditions.

A Chinese co-worker recently told me that she's getting married. She didn't seem happy about it. She's in her mid 30s  and it's scandalous that she's not married yet.  I got the impression that while not an arranged marriage, her parents helped with the match.  I have a former Indian co-worker who was pushed into basically an arranged marriage. She isn't happy.

I was reading answers about a similar question on another forum. The poster was from an Asian nation.  He said that their grandma had hepatitis.  During the meal, family members pulled food out of a common dish with chopsticks. As did grandma, who was aware she was sick. The younger people cringed, but no one dared say anything.

When I dealt with the possible molestation of my daughter, then 2 almost 3, I turned it over to the cops.  The ex-laws were understandably incensed, as I knew they would be.  My ex later explained it: I violated the rule: I was supposed to bring my concerns to her dad about his grandkids and the perp (his teenage son). My ex told me later that she had previously brought her concerns to her mother who dismissed them as ridiculous. 

Epic FAIL.

Timothy 5:8, NIV: "Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."

Provision includes protection for the least of these. 


If there is sin here, it is on them, not you, and they will answer for it. 

[TelHill]

Thank you, Turkish, for your kind words. A large part of my issues are due to the shock & grief of losing my husband suddenly over 2 years ago. 

It takes time to grieve & return to clear thinking/action.

It’s not right to be treated like a Cinderella(pre-prince) with my FOO. I used to handle it better before H’s death. It would wash off my back.

Mom is going off the deep end. She’s been in bed for 1.5 weeks with shifting (phantom) pain, screaming day and night.

I’m worn out with being patient & setting boundaries. My dad is afraid she’ll assault people if she goes to assisted living and be abused for punishment.

Anyway, time to start researching what to do. My dad’s English is poor & this is the right time to be the family fixer to get her help.

[Turkish]

My dad is afraid she’ll assault people if she goes to assisted living and be abused for punishment.

They'll medicate her. They did that to my mom after she was acting out physically. They found whatever right cocktail of medications to calm her. She wasn't a zombie, nor chained to her bed, but walking around, happy, and not assaulting people.

It's better to get in front of this, as it sounds like she's a danger to herself and possibly others.  Given your dad running interference, it may get worse before it gets better. In fact, he's likely preventing it from getting better.  

[gotbushels]

The latter has helped a lot.

Share more? Me too, expecting to be affected by a difficult person helped me. It still helps me today from time to time. Did you find a way to reduce the emotional effect on yourself to a very low-anxiety level?

I told my mom I'd sell her first before selling my place.

ROFL. I appreciate what you mean.

The handyman was flirting with me! 

I think this is a good thing. I enjoy flirting—even when the ends isn't to score a date. It can feel good.

The handyman did a good job but my dad was telling me the guy was not a good worker and was very cold to him.

Probably a good thing. I think part of being a parent is having a concern for the healthy development of the child—relationally. A parent that does their job will probably want them to be around healthy and stable others.

So, that's the state of platonic and romantic relationships. I have to hide them.

Mm. I hear you. I think it could be difficult in families with a BP in them because the moment there's a new human for relational investment—the BP will of course get less than their 150% of life energy invested by the nons. So there's an incentive to hide relationships for nons. I know a little of what this can be like. I'll share this.

When I was with my ex—looking back—she'd tantrum to coincide when I'd be involved relationally to many others in my life.

If I spent time with my FOO, she'd coincidentally play the card where she gets along with no one in my life. Summarily—it's the game of if I pick them, then I lose.

If I spent "too much time" around a male coworker—there will probably be some acting out of being around other men on the weekend. The game comes of "less time with me → tantrum".

If a female coworker even looked at me in a way my ex didn't like—I will pay for it with a 6 hour fight. Maybe add a few days of fighting. Same game—but obvious idea.

The pattern here seems that anything that takes future time away from the BP—they will act out (probably unconsciously—the point is it happens). I think here, on a deeper level, it's important to see that from the non's point of view, all these game episodes satisfies the "I'm needed" switch in us. That feel-good distracts us from the big view that we want better relationships—the good stuff that will last. In the end if that pick results in the BP being out of our lives so that we can spend our life energy (all beautiful 150% of that investment) on a healthy person—so be it.

Anyway, I encourage you not to let your difficult relationships rob you of your time building ones that accrue more to your benefit.   

But the Lord answered her, "Martha, Martha, you are anxious and troubled about many things, but one thing is necessary. Mary has chosen the good portion, which will not be taken away from her." Luke 10:41-42(ESV)


In addition to that, I think just because you have clear 5-year-forward ideas of where you may want your life to be—account for what you can do today to get the outcome you want with your BPDM.

It's better to get in front of this, as it sounds like she's a danger to herself and possibly others.

It might help to be clear to define what's the relationship you want with your BPDM. When you reach that point—be sure to pat yourself on the back, thank God, and enjoy the peace.

[GaGrl]

For some perspective... I have my 93 year old mother living with us, and she has a few BPD traits, learned from her uBPD/BPD stepmother who came into the picture when my very vulnerable mom was six years old.

Today, I dealt with my mom's tooth extraction. I simply "know" at this point that she needs attention about the tooth extraction. I can either invalidate her, or praise her for now well she is doing. Either way, she's going to get attention. But it's going to be "OMG, this is horrible, change my bandages/pads, feed me soft foods, give me a pain pill." Or it can be " Wow, Mom, I can't believe how well you are doing, you are so strong for your age, you have such a high tolerance for pain... "

So I can pretty easily shift her perspective.

With a full-on BPD...you are in conflict and rage so fast, you don't realize you are there til you are there.

[Notwendy]

When my Dad got sick, I wanted my parents to move to a retirement community that had assisted living when needed. Dad was needing more help- and BPD mom isn't capable of being a caregiver. I thought it would be a good situation- Dad would get the help he needed, wouldn't have to rely on my mother who was unreliable. BPD Mom would be in a place where they provided activities, meals- she could enjoy herself They were able to afford this, and there were some nice places to consider.

Dad refused. I couldn't figure out why. It seemed like a good situation. I admit it wasn't entirely selfless- I knew I would not want to be my mother's caregiver and in this situation, I wouldn't worry about her either. I was also worried about my father and didn't live close enough to help as much as he would need.

What I am getting at   TellHill is that I believe his refusal was because he knew what the staff would see. He was very invested in protecting my mother and maintaining that she was "normal". She is able to hold it together in public. In these assisted living situations, the staff would see her behaviors. I also think she would become combative and they would have had to medicate her, or also possibly make her leave as she is still healthy due to her being disruptive.  However, he did not tell me this- to tell me would be to expose mother's issues. So instead, if I brought the idea up, he would get angry at me so I would not pursue it.

My father had home health assistance but my parents didn't like any of them and often terminated them. I suspect it was because they may have seen a different picture of her.

Your father may be very invested in protecting your mother. They might prefer you as caregiver because this way, your mother's behavior can remain less exposed. But still, you need to be able to choose what you wish to do.

[Notwendy]

Ga Girl- your post made me think of something. My mother's family has a habit of praising her for the most ordinary things. They also make a huge fuss over her in public, and she loves to have people see others make a fuss over her. She seems to crave a lot of praise and admiration.

While I think it's nice to compliment people, their comments seemed disingenuous because they would praise her for things most adults do on an ordinary basis. It sounds like they are talking about a 6 year old. It's good to praise a kid for picking up their toys or tying their shoes, but they just rave about my mother doing things like making a phone call, things we do all the time and don't even notice.

They are high functioning professionals and so they are not easily impressed. I wonder if this is how they adapted to my mother over the years. When she was younger, there wasn't any information about BPD. I wonder if the family learned that this kind of thing somehow mitigated her behaviors. It seems to be a family thing.

It's seemed so odd to me to do this, so I haven't- which upsets her. She wants me to praise her and give her lots of attention. She might think I don't do this on purpose but it didn't make sense to me. Now, it's something to keep in mind.

[zachira]

I think it's important we don't validate the invalid which includes praising people for doing ordinary things because that person craves being praised. I often read articles that talk about how damaged the younger generations are because of all the awards they are given for not really accomplishing anything. I remember being really annoyed by being given an award for how many years I had worked at a certain place.
I try not to validate my BPD sister's cravings for unmerited praise. She is one of the many golden children in the family, who continues to crave being put on a pedestal by certain family members who worship the golden children who are now adults no matter how badly they behave and disparage the scapegoats no matter how many kind generous things they do for others. My cousin wanted to give my sister another birthday party. My sister has had numerous large family birthday parties over the years while my other siblings and I, along with many other family members, have never had one. I calmly said no without any explanation, as my sister does not need another family birthday party to support her narcissism. She is a terribly selfish individual and the world revolves around her, and I don't see it helps my relationship with her or the family to participate in giving her another birthday party. This is not about jealousy. It is about creating a more functional validating environment for everyone, including my sister with BPD.
I am happy to give credit to my sister or anyone else that does something genuinely special and nice. I enjoy helping people to be their best self.

[GaGrl]

Telhill, my mom is legally bound in one eye and losing acuity in the other (macular degeneration). At 93, she has lost much of the independence she once had, and it frustrates her. So I can genuinely praise her for what she accomplishes. I do what I can to keep her from sliding into negative emotions while not coddling her, which isn't my style.

At least her mind is sharp!

[Harri]

I think the issue of complimenting is something that can not be generalized really.

IMO if it soothes and calms a person down I will do it.  My mom was very child like in many ways given her insecurities, fears, paranoia, etc.  If my telling her she did a good job with something made her feel better and made my life and hers easier?  I did it and did not feel I was violating any of my own personal ethics.

[Notwendy]

I think it matches the age of the child, and the emotional age of the person with BPD. It's normal to praise a young child for picking up their toys, or tying their shoes, probably absurd to praise a teen for tying their shoes.

I think the need for praise and how people praise my mother matches her emotional age.

Sometimes she would talk about others like this too. I thought it was weird but thinking about her need for this makes sense. She would say something like "your father was such a good boy today, he did this for me" and I would think - what the heck- how old do you think he is? But if this is what she likes, it makes sense she'd sometimes return the compliment.

Once I ran some errands for my father and helped him out. My mother said to me " I told my family what a good girl you were today". And I was a grown adult at the time and this was just one of many things I would do for my parents without even thinking about it.

But this may have just been one of her manipulations. She rarely praised me. I did a lot of things that might have been age appropriate to praise such as graduating college, but I didn't feel as if anything I did was really good enough for my parents. But running a simple errand and she says "good girl" like she's say to a child?

[Harri]

But if this is what she likes, it makes sense she'd sometimes return the compliment.

I have learned that if I want to know what is important to someone and what makes them feel good to hear to listen to what compliments they make to me.  Not consciously in terms of an effort to manipulate but to have them hear me when I say I like them and so they mean something.

For example, I had a friend who would always comment on how smart I was (I'm not particularly smart and I am fine with that).  I never really understood why she did that as it meant little to me and my response was to say thanks but that was it, it never made me feel good and I felt like she could not see me.  

Turns out being smart was what *she* wanted to hear, it was what made her feel good.  She had a dad who put her down a lot.  She really was/is smart as heck.  A medical doctor and that does not happen without a lot of brain power.  There I was complimenting her for being kind (that was important to me) but when I finally figured it out, you should have seen her face.  She lit up like a Christmas tree.  It made her feel better and I could say it and be genuine about it.

But running a simple errand and she says "good girl" like she's say to a child?

Maybe you running the errand  made her feel good and cared for.  You were helping her.  Based on how you describe her, she is very self focused so I can see where something like this would be important to her.  Is that accurate?

[Notwendy]

Harri, you are correct that what my mother values is acts of service to her. And for some reason, she also doesn't reciprocate- they need to be one way- she needs to be doted on.

I guess I am the outlier in the family because I see things differently. If someone were to do something nice for me, I would want to return the favor somehow, maybe not in the same way. But for instance, recently a co-worker helped me with something at work. I bought her a small gift to say thank you. She didn't require this, or expect it. I wanted to do it. It's not something I would want praise for, it's just how I see things.

With my mother, she wants to be done for, but doesn't offer to help or do things in return. Somehow it meets some kind of need for her.

In her world, she might see me as deliberately "hurting " her when I don't go along with how she sees things. It just wouldn't occur to me to praise an adult for doing the kind of things they need to do to take care of themselves. If I do the dishes, I don't expect to be praised. I do them because it's important to have clean dishes. My mother would want to be told how wonderful she is for doing the dishes and what a great job she did.

When I hear her say " Dad was a good boy!" It sounds like she's talking about a dog! I also don't use the term "good boy" good girl" with children. It puts a value on what they do. So if they do something they are "good" but that would mean if they don't do something, or do it poorly they are "bad"? It's part of her black and white thinking. If a child did the dishes, I would say " thank you- you did a good job with them" Not "you are good".  If a toddler used the potty, I would say " just like a big girl!" not "good girl" .

It is starting to make sense! She didn't tell me I was a good girl when I accomplished something like graduating college, but doing something for her makes her feel good, so I'm a good girl when I do that, and a bad girl when I don't. It aligns with the idea that a person with a PD sees a child as what that child does for them, not what they need to do for that child.

Her FOO has adapted to her a long time ago- they grew up in the same family system. I realize little was known about BPD when she was younger. I am thinking they learned to praise her and dote on her as a way to keep her moods more stable. It's really odd to watch them do this. They just lavish her with praise. But I also see that she somehow emotionally craves this. I don't do this and I think to her, she sees this as me being hurtful - but I don't intend it to be.

[Harri]

It is starting to make sense! She didn't tell me I was a good girl when I accomplished something like graduating college, but doing something for her makes her feel good, so I'm a good girl when I do that, and a bad girl when I don't. It aligns with the idea that a person with a PD sees a child as what that child does for them, not what they need to do for that child.

Yep.  They see things through their own filters.  We all do to an extent though.  Part of being a good parent, friend, partner is being able to see beyond our own filters and biases and needs. 

I agree with your feeling about the good girl/boy comments.    Not my thing thankfully.

[zachira]

When it comes to complimenting the person with BPD in our lives to better manage our relationship with them, there is no one size that fits all in every situation. I think it is important to know how it affects you to compliment the person with BPD in your life when he/she has done nothing really worthy. If it makes it easier for you, than by all means do it! Telling white lies is something we all do, and is a part of being socially adept. In my case, I don't do the complimenting when it is unmerited, yet do when the person with BPD does something generally nice that I appreciate. I don't compliment unworthy actions of the persons with BPD in my life because in my family most of the people with BPD also have strong narcissitic tendancies and playing up to those tendancies seems to increase the feelings of entitlement and right to exploit others.

[TelHill]

When it comes to complimenting the person with BPD in our lives to better manage our relationship with them, there is no one size that fits all in every situation. I think it is important to know how it affects you to compliment the person with BPD in your life when he/she has done nothing really worthy. If it makes it easier for you, than by all means do it! Telling white lies is something we all do, and is a part of being socially adept. In my case, I don't do the complimenting when it is unmerited, yet do when the person with BPD does something generally nice that I appreciate. I don't compliment unworthy actions of the persons with BPD in my life because in my family most of the people with BPD also have strong narcissitic tendancies and playing up to those tendancies seems to increase the feelings of entitlement and right to exploit others.

I agree. I compliment safe things.  My mom’s wardrobe combinations are very attractive, considering they’re 30 year old items from Penney’s or the late Montgomery Wards.  She’s a whiz at it. She would be a popular instagramming grandma. Complimenting a nice hairdo or saying she looks physically pretty, brings out self-loathing of body parts. I stay away from it since it causes pain.

[TelHill]

They'll medicate her. They did that to my mom after she was acting out physically. They found whatever right cocktail of medications to calm her. She wasn't a zombie, nor chained to her bed, but walking around, happy, and not assaulting people.

It's better to get in front of this, as it sounds like she's a danger to herself and possibly others.  Given your dad running interference, it may get worse before it gets better. In fact, he's likely preventing it from getting better.  

I wanted to return to this earlier but forgot. Dad & brother are running interference.   Thank you for your insight. We live in the same state. What applies to your situation applies to me. She needs a drug combo that addresses all her psychiatric & cognitive issues.

Yes, she is aggressive and has threatened a family member’s life - not mine. She wouldn’t follow through. She sees this as protecting herself. Jarring to hear her say this though.