Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
April 21, 2025, 09:53:57 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Popular books with members
103
Surviving a
Borderline Parent

Emotional Blackmail
Fear, Obligation, and Guilt
When Parents Make
Children Their Partners
Healing the
Shame That Binds You


Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Confused. Should she apologize?  (Read 581 times)
Spindle0516
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Inlaw
Posts: 125



« on: October 31, 2019, 11:25:28 PM »

Kinda confused.

I posted on here already that my mother in law threatened suicide a few weeks ago. She has since come home and has been following up with doctors and therapists. She has it in her head, that I "had her arrested for suicide," and that she is under some kind of legal obligation to follow up with the appropriate providers. (It might be horrible, but my husband and I have not corrected her.)  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)?

While she was in the hospital, she said really awful things to me and my sister in law- all along the lines of it being our fault she was there, how I ruined my husband and her family, how my sister in law is a terrible mom, called both of us a lot of really awful things to vulgar to list here... Cursing - won't cause site restrictions at Starbucks (click to insert in post)...but I am sure you can guess correctly. The list of things she said goes on and on.

Anyway, we have since found out that she didn't really take the pills that she said she was taking- with the caption, "bottoms up," but was using it as a means to communicate really ineffectively.

I understand that my MIL was in a complete state of emotional upheaval, was completely panicked, and did not know how to process or appropriately express or identify what she was feeling. Regardless, I was still really hurt, and appreciated the apology once she seemed to understand the implications of her words.

Her version of events that day do not really line up with what actually happened. The sequence of events she refers to is all out of order from the way things played out and the reasons for her actions were actually events that took place after she made suicide threats, not before like she seems to think. I know that this is not unusual.

Her version is what she presented to the doctors and therapist. According to her, both parties have said something along the lines of this:

You are not responsible for what happened. You were not in your right mind. You've never done anything like this before and you do not owe anyone an apology especially if you do not remember things correctly.

(Should be noted that while this is the most extreme event we have had with her, she has said similar things to me before. In her "right" mind, it is usually more tempered and not as harsh, but I wouldn't really say she has never said anything like that before)

She was complaining to my husband and I that my SIL still hasn't spoken to her since she was in the hospital. My SIL told us that my MIL (her mom) has always been her safe space and that she broke that on the night she was sent to the hospital. I don't think my SIL really knows what to do about all of it. My husband and I explained to my MIL that my SIL is probably still feeling really hurt and confused by all of it and might need time and/or an apology. My MIL responded with, "Well, doesn't she understand how her ignoring me impacts me and how it makes me feel really bad. She should know I wasn't okay and call me because it is hurting me to not talk to her and the grandkids." (It was all about how she feels and not at all about how hurtful her words were)

As I type this, the more I realize how complicated and layered the whole issue is and it isn't a simple question like I initially thought, nor do I really know how to explain it all succinctly.

This feels terrible to say, but my SIL is not aware of the likely BPD diagnosis, nor do i think she has the intellectual capacity or emotional intelligence to really understand what it means. My husband and BIL had a very different experience of my MIL than the 2 daughters did. My MIL's unhealthy ways of coping and communicating and manipulating seem to have been passed down to the daughter's while the son's have worked really hard to move beyond that. (Is that normal? I've never thought about this much until now. Family dynamics are so confusing! My MIL tends to be much more aggressive with woman then men, I am assuming because of all the abuse she was subjected to by men. I think maybe she feels like she has more control and power over women then men. Maybe?)

Anyway, this is a really long way of asking, to what degree should we hold her responsible for her words and actions on that night she was hospitalized? Are the doctors and therapists right- since she wasn't in her right mind, is she exempt from having to apologize or take responsibility for her actions and words? Or are they being manipulated as well? If she isn't even aware of how things actually played out, how can she take responsibility for it?

Bahhh, so many questions, but I'll leave it with this for now. It is late, I am sleepy, and this has likely turned into a rambling incoherent post. Thanks for listening.

« Last Edit: October 31, 2019, 11:40:29 PM by Harri » Logged
Methuen
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 1907



« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2019, 11:55:35 PM »

Oh dear.  Sounds complicated and really messy.

I might be wrong, and someone else on the board can offer expert advice, but from my personal experience, I don't think BP's apologize.  They can't.  If they do, maybe they aren't BP's?

I only started to "get" what BP meant this past summer.  It's been a brutal journey.  Intellectually I know my BP will never apologize for anything (eg. her "rages" at me).  I thought I was OK with that Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)  But after the recent rage last weekend, I found out I wasn't as OK as I thought I was. 

Excerpt
I understand that my MIL was in a complete state of emotional upheaval, was completely panicked, and did not know how to process or appropriately express or identify what she was feeling. Regardless, I was still really hurt, and appreciated the apology once she seemed to understand the implications of her words.
So I'm a bit confused here, as it sounds like she DID apologize to you?

Excerpt
Anyway, this is a really long way of asking, to what degree should we hold her responsible for her words and actions on that night she was hospitalized? Are the doctors and therapists right- since she wasn't in her right mind, is she exempt from having to apologize or take responsibility for her actions and words? Or are they being manipulated as well? If she isn't even aware of how things actually played out, how can she take responsibility for it?

It kind of sounds here like she may have apologized for a different version of events than what others like yourself perceive to have happened?

I just know that I will never get an apology from my mom.  I don't expect one anymore, although when she says something that triggers me, it still feels just as horrible as it ever has.  Even if I validate her, use SET, set a boundary or use any other tool, the apology will never come.  It's the illness that makes her behave like that. I've let go of waiting for the apology that is never going to come.



Logged
Spindle0516
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Inlaw
Posts: 125



« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2019, 08:13:04 AM »


It kind of sounds here like she may have apologized for a different version of events than what others like yourself perceive to have happened?


I should clarify. I just reread my post and I'm embarrassed how confusing it is! She kind of apologized to me, but like you said, for a different version of events. And she will not apologize to her daughter who she was even crueler to than me.

I kind of think she only apologized to me to placate my husband and brother in law- I am in a position to make her life much more difficult since she lives with us and is terrified that I am going to kick her out. She often thinks i am going to force her out- i took her out for ice cream the other day, but she starting bawling in the car convinced that was that I was really taking her to some kind of center to live.

Typically, she doesn't often apologize, and if she does, it is in combination with cries of how she is a horrible person, a horrible mother, how she has a terrible life and has no control or reason to live. She is very good at holding grudges and expecting others to apologize to her.
Logged
Spindle0516
***
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Inlaw
Posts: 125



« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2019, 06:17:02 PM »

The more I think about it, I guess what is really confusing is that she feels justified in a lot of her behavior. In her mind, several mental health professionals basically said she did nothing wrong or has no reason to express any kind of remorse for inappropriate behavior.

So she feels validated and in her mind, we completely overreacted.  

Which, I guess, means that it is impossible to hold her responsible and we have to find a way to make peace with that? It just kind of sucks.

Logged
Methuen
********
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Posts: 1907



« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2019, 06:53:55 PM »

So I have sadly learned I can't believe anything my mother tells me as fact.  

Excerpt
In her mind, several mental health professionals basically said she did nothing wrong or has no reason to express any kind of remorse for inappropriate behavior.

I'm interested with the "in her mind" part.  It could be that is what her therapist said.  If this were the case, hopefully the therapist has a plan of where to go with that in the future.  It could be that her therapist said something different, and this is your mom's interpretation because it fits her need, or it could be the therapist said something quite (or completely) different, but your mom is reporting this as their message to you (because whatever was said, this is what she wanted to hear).

I wouldn't read too much into it or put much energy into thinking about it, because I'm not sure a borderline is able to offer a genuine apology anyways; the illness/disorder just doesn't make it possible.  

Unless you are with her at the therapist, you will never know what really gets said.  

Excerpt
So she feels validated and in her mind, we completely overreacted.

Yep.  That's the BP.  This exactly describes my mom, but with a different circumstance.

Excerpt
what is really confusing is that she feels justified in a lot of her behavior
Yep again!  How exasperating is this...?  It can feel unjust and unfair when it happens.  This has become worse for my mom as she has aged.

What helps me is going low contact, or taking a break (NC) for as long as you can.  Use the time to look after yourself, and do whatever makes you feel "well" and charges up your batteries.  The suicide piece complicates it for you.  I really don't know what to say there... 

Excerpt
...means that it is impossible to hold her responsible and we have to find a way to make peace with that?

No I don't think so.  I think this is where boundaries come in.  I am only learning how to set effective boundaries with a BP.  I've had no problem setting boundaries successfully with Non's my whole life, but setting boundaries with a BP is a different kettle of fish.  I believe there's a resource for how to SET and set effective boundaries on this website. 
« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 07:05:28 PM by Methuen » Logged
Turkish
BOARD ADMINISTRATOR
**
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2014; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
Posts: 12183


Dad to my wolf pack


« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2019, 10:29:03 PM »

So I have sadly learned I can't believe anything my mother tells me as fact.  

I'm interested with the "in her mind" part.  It could be that is what her therapist said.  If this were the case, hopefully the therapist has a plan of where to go with that in the future.  It could be that her therapist said something different, and this is your mom's interpretation because it fits her need, or it could be the therapist said something quite (or completely) different, but your mom is reporting this as their message to you (because whatever was said, this is what she wanted to hear).

Excellent points Methuen. Whatever was said is going to be interpreted in a way which causes her the least pain and shame.  
Logged

    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!