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Author Topic: Can't quite put my finger on it - Part 3  (Read 1732 times)
Skip
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
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« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2019, 05:28:44 PM »

OK. I know this is hard and if I'm pushing too hard I can  back off. Just send me a PM or throw a rock at me.

So for her (posted above):

         This about a women in two love triangles (OM and Enabler, OM and Kid's unit) that she can't resolve. Or where unresolved is better than resolved? She would chose OM over Enabler. She would chose Kid's unit over OM. Not choosing has benefits over choosing. She can live in both worlds with two men supporting her needs. One for love and companionship. One for child rearing.

So for you (paraphrasing your post):

         This is about a man who is fully dedicated to his children and is willing to endure in order to maintain day to day parenting (which would not happen in divorce), and is willing to accept a wife who is seeing another man, is pursuing her life interests without much regard for her husbands needs, and has declared her feelings for him as over (divorce decree). /td]

OK. It's not unusual for parents to stay together because of the kids... put on a good face, make nice, fight fairly for the kids sake... but this is more complicated than most.

There is already another man. There is a divorce on the table (at the very least, a clear statement of her being done with the romantic part of the relationship). You two are neither staying or going... which is a particularly difficult space to be in.  

When I mentioned metrics, I was thinking of discussing (as a group) things like (example)

Home environment: It would seem to me that the biggest issue is how damaging the home environment is (or is growing to be). My understanding is that the negative tension in the home is far greater evil than a cooperative co-parenting divorce - more damaging than a divorce per se' .

Age of the children The age of the children is a factor. I've heard that divorces when children are 11 and under is more damaging to the child than for teens - teens aren't solely and fully dependent on parents for all their needs - the are starting to branch out.

I've also seen where the reaction from teens is often harder on the parents than the reaction of a pre-teen.

Likelihood of recovery I think the length of the disconnect of the parents is a significant indicator of the likelihood the parents can recover the marriage. I think this also factors is how long it will take the non-affair parent to recover, and recondition themselves to be an eligible/attractive single person and start the second household.

It's not an easy situation. At some point, the downside of staying in is worse than breaking up. Where that tipping point is may be worth exploring and considering in your actions going forward.

Skip
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« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2019, 03:15:07 AM »

This is great Skip. I disagree with the statement about me being "willing to accept" my wife's behaviour, I just have no effective weaponry to show my lack of acceptance without shooting myself in the face. I'll detail out the situation on the 3 headings:

Excerpt
Home environment: It would seem to me that the biggest issue is how damaging the home environment is (or is growing to be). My understanding is that the negative tension in the home is far greater evil than a cooperative co-parenting divorce - more damaging than a divorce per se' .

- W has developed a mask in front of the kids. I believe that she identifies them as now being potential witnesses to her dark side so on the whole her behaviour towards me (such as silent treatment and other passive aggressive behaviours) are kept till they are in bed. This really changed when there was a big bout of weirdness one Sunday evening, W randomly decided she couldn't even sit at the dinner table facing me so sat on a different table... I disgusted her! This was random, weird and none of the kids had a clue what was going on. They questioned, I questioned, she blew up at me, the kids got upset and ran off to their rooms, I stayed calm, she stormed off... D11 comes downstairs and blows up at W, W tries to claim victim spot, D11 says "No Mummy, you're just horrible to Daddy, and I don't know why you need to be like this with him." If she attempts to ignore me in front of the kids, the kids will repeat my question or say "Mummy, Daddy just asked you a question" which forces an answer or a need to be reasonable. I see this as W identifying that kids are maybe seeing her dirty inner secret, and she wants to keep that under wraps and not appear to be a bad mother.
- Children get quite a lot of attention. I am keen to spend time with them since I don't know how long my ability to do that might last, my W is keen not to feel like the children are gravitating too far in my direction so organises things to do with her as well. There is minimal conflict here because I'm relatively flexible and due to W's social and church commitments there's more than enough gaps where I'm required to look after them. Like many things in the relationship, my W chooses what she wants and then everyone else fits in around that... I don't much operate in planning weeks or months ahead (she does) so typically this is no big deal for me being more spontaneous (what do we fancy doing today, what's the weather like, what chores do I NEED to complete)... that said I have got better at planning special things I know I want to do well in advance so block those events out in the online calendar now.
- Children are far too accepting of a weird dynamic of W and I doing things completely separately and don't even question us not attending each others family events. I don't know if they believe this to be normal adult behaviour or not, my guess is they have just realised asking the question isn't going to yield a reasonably satisfying answer so just go along with things. So, are we imprinting weird family dynamics as their normal... yes. This for me is NOT SURE

Excerpt
Age of the children The age of the children is a factor. I've heard that divorces when children are 11 and under is more damaging to the child than for teens - teens aren't solely and fully dependent on parents for all their needs - the are starting to branch out.

I've also seen where the reaction from teens is often harder on the parents than the reaction of a pre-teen.

I read 7-13 being the danger zone but details details. My D11 is probably emotionally less mature than some 11yr olds anyway and gets significant abandonment fears. D11 and D6 probably cause the most conflict in the house. D11 because of her abandonment fears and sense of entitlement and D6 because she has learnt been taught through intermittent reinforcement that escalating conflict generally resulting getting her own way... she tested the boundaries and they fell.

Using D11 as an example. My reading about BPD has also been useful in providing me a tool kit with regards to dealing with a dysregulated kid. I've deployed those techniques when dealing with my daughter to great effect. My W doesn't have these tools so continues to escalate conflict in the same way we both used to. This typically results in cataclysmic arguments which unnecessarily spiral out of control which I then iron out... only for them to be reignited when W comes in again to put the record straight (typically by attempting to jettison any blame she might have felt she incurred in round 1, conflict becomes less about resolution and more about fault). I see this escalating DRAMATICALLY as hormones kick in and more complicated drama comes in to play. Not being there for this I believe is likely to result in a very dysfunctional relationship between my W and D11 where the periods between drama for healing become less and less and less and negative feelings become more entrenched (this happened to my W with her mother in her teenage years and resulted in my W self harming and other dangerous coping mechanisms). THAT SAID... in my W's experience her F rather was completely passive and did not interject at all to be the voice of reason (probably through fear MIL would turn on him instead), I'm not like my FIL, likely why we are where we're at in the relationship. Being 'in' the home would at least allow me to act differently with a view to breaking the inter-generational cycle. So this for me is STAY.

Excerpt
Likelihood of recovery I think the length of the disconnect of the parents is a significant indicator of the likelihood the parents can recover the marriage. I think this also factors is how long it will take the non-affair parent to recover, and recondition themselves to be an eligible/attractive single person and start the second household.
It's been a long and consistent decline in the relationship, there's no denying that. In the past I have bounced back into the relationship when she's turned the proverbial lights on again and just rocked back with little or no explanation. I would hope I wouldn't allow this again and guard the marriage from just brushing the last 3yrs+ under the carpet. I'd like to say that was pure magical thinking but frankly given my experiences in the past I am not so sure it's completely impossible. If my W was completely aligned to her own personal values, acting with complete accountability in an open manner... then I'd say this D was nailed on. But to me her fantasy and reality still seem miles apart, and her reality and the truth even further... and at some point they all need to merge, to actually get a divorce you HAVE TO accept the realities of getting a divorce, and we still appear to be miles off that point with every effort made to keep fantasy and reality apart... if I consider her actions so far, they have been emotional yes, but they have also been in the shadows, they are bits of paper, meetings, printing things out. Nothing that has actually changed her existence in the slightest. I suggest a monthly direct debt for a budget, she refuses, I suggest telling the kids, she's not keen, she has money to move out the home, she doesn't seem to do that. She wants me to leave... but again, that's not about changing her situation, that's changing mine. So for me, this is a STAY.



Is that what you were looking for Skip? I'll write what I think equates to a LEAVE, LEAVE, LEAVE

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« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2019, 12:36:53 PM »

Staff only This Thread has reached its maximum length and is now locked. The conversation continues here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=340987.msg13086814#msg13086814
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