3 months NC, sent her a message, and me thinking about things.

[lucidone]

My exubpd/npd were together for a year.  Last week, after three months of no contact I sent her a Facebook message.  I stated that I happened to see photographs of us together on my computer, that it made me smile, that I was happy that we shared those moments together, and that I hoped that she was doing well.  No questions or call to actions.  It's a few days since then, and she hasn't got back to me.  It's possible that she didn't see the message.  I'm not blocked on Facebook but I could be 'ignored'.  Even if she did see it, I don't expect her to get back to me.  I'm assuming that she's seeing someone else at the moment and she's still in the idealization/honeymoon phase.  However with all of her unrealistic and selfish beliefs, extreme and vicious behavior, lack of empathy and sense of entitlement, I think it's only going to be a matter of time before she discards this new person or he breaks it off.

What will happen then?  I expect one of two things to happen.  She will have painted me white again (she did this with her last boyfriend before me sometime after she broke up with him), and will try to contact me due to her insecurity.  Or I'll find her on one of the dating apps that I have, in an attempt to find someone else.  I'm actually curious to see which it would be.  Something about this seems interesting, like a scientist interested in seeing the results of an experiment.

What do I want to happen?  I know that it's probable that she won't get better anytime soon.  She's a high functioning individual, at least outside of relationships, with both BPD and NPD tendencies.  Chances are she won't see that she has aversive qualities that lead to aversive results in her relationships, and thus she won't do anything to grow.  If she were to contact me, and we got back together, nothing would change with her, and she would slowly decline to her aversive behavior.  Of course part of me wants her to recognize this, and do something about it.  That's unrealistic though.  I'm considering that I want her to contact me to I can get closure.  So I can give her my honest opinion about how she is and what happened between us.

Quite often I find myself thinking that I'm having a conversion with her.  I'll tell her that her behavior is/was inappropriate, or that she has unrealistic expectations, etc.  Psychologically I wonder why this is.  I'm considering I'm saying the things that I wish I said while we were together, but I became too hesitant due to not wanting to trigger her.  This may be my way of working through that regret.  It probably would be ideal for me to write these conversations out to expedite the process working through this relationship residue.

What would I do if she did all of a sudden contact me?  I would probably entertain the possibility that she could realize that she has aversive tendencies, and that she would do something about it.  I don't think I'd bring up the past, but I'd be sure to setup boundaries and enforce them.  I would validate what she said, even if I disagree with it.  I would state my disagreement with it, but not argue.  And at the same I would try to help her grow into someone more functional.

This probably wouldn't be healthy for me.  It's not healthy that I'd consider spending the time and energy on this when she wouldn't do it for me.  It's not healthy that I would expose myself to all of this aversiveness so I could have her in my life.  And is it fair that I can't accept her for what she is and I'm trying to change her, even if it would be ultimately what is best for her?

It's interesting how there is this consideration and desire to have her despite the consequences.  I think that I'm too idealistic for my own good.  I consider that anything is possible.  I also consider that I've been conditioned to allow for aversiveness from someone but to still have them in my life.  I also think there is a lingering need to have an intimate connection with someone, and to have that with the aversiveness is better than nothing.  All of this and possibly other things combined to ignore some of what happened in our relationship and allowed me to stay in it for as long as I did.

This is me thinking "out loud".  I'm not asking any specific questions here.  If anyone can relate or has any input, feel free to respond.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey lucidone,  It sounds like you would entertain a recycle, if the opportunity were to present itself.  If so, what makes you think things would play out differently?  Plenty of us, including me, have recycled, only to wind up in the same place farther down the line, except with more pain.

Presumably you sent her an FB message because, on some level, you are still engaged, which is OK and worth acknowledging.  I did a lot of ruminating at one point, much as you are doing, and a lot of it was for me just wasted energy.  It sounds like you are projecting about how different scenarios might unfold.  Rather than project about what others might do, I suggest you focus on yourself, which is the only thing actually under your control.

Why do you think you got involved with a pwBPD in the first place?  It's a worthwhile inquiry, my friend.  Hint: usually it has to do with one's FOO or other childhood trauma.  Keep us posted.

LuckyJim

[confusedbybdp]

 

You could give a short course on BPD.  Your analysis of the situation is thoughtful and thorough.  But friend, it will get you NOWHERE fast!  You can't think your way out of this.  I'm analytical, too.  I'm a lawyer, so that's my "go to."  But all the analytical skill in the world won't help you make sense of what happened.  It is a parallel universe, and we should count ourselves lucky for not being able to understand it.

The very last thing you need is a recycle.  Wake up and smell the coffee!  You are lucky to be out.  I was still in unbearable pain 3 months out, but 6 months, well that's different.  I'm on my way back to sanity from a totally INSANE relationship.  You are right at the turning point.  Don't go back now!  Keep moving forward.  All these ruminations will slowly begin to fade, and you will start reclaiming your pre-relationship self.  Give it time.  Keep the faith and keep moving forward. 

[lucidone]

Thanks for the response LuckyJim

Hey lucidone,  It sounds like you would entertain a recycle, if the opportunity were to present itself.  If so, what makes you think things would play out differently?

I would consider it.  It would be different because I've learnt the what and why's of her behavior and how to better work with them.  i wouldn't fall 'head over heels' into it again.  It's so foolish though.  And unrealistic that anything would be different in the long term.  I've already learnt in the past that no matter what I did there was still problems.

Rather than project about what others might do, I suggest you focus on yourself, which is the only thing actually under your control.

Why do you think you got involved with a pwBPD in the first place?  It's a worthwhile inquiry, my friend. 

Oh buddy I went down that rabbit hole already, although there still might be more to discover.  I've spent months in research, self-reflection, and therapy.  Anxious attachment style coupled with residual insecurity from my younger years.  Also due to easy going, positive, idealistic personality and attitudes.  I've been doing what I can to address these things.  I still can't help but think of her and the possibilities though.

Hint: usually it has to do with one's FOO or other childhood trauma.  Keep us posted.

Sorry whats FOO?

[lucidone]

Hey, thanks for the response.

You can't think your way out of this.  I'm analytical, too.  I'm a lawyer, so that's my "go to."  But all the analytical skill in the world won't help you make sense of what happened.  It is a parallel universe, and we should count ourselves lucky for not being able to understand it.

Yeah, you're right.  That's part of what makes these relationships so jarring and confusing; it and their behavior just doesn't make sense, at least not in a typical way.  Effort and love doesn't equate to making the relationship better.  In fact it seems to make it worse, as it just raises the bar for what you need to do and is enabling.
[/quote]

You are lucky to be out.  I was still in unbearable pain 3 months out, but 6 months, well that's different.  I'm on my way back to sanity from a totally INSANE relationship.  You are right at the turning point.  Don't go back now!  Keep moving forward.  All these ruminations will slowly begin to fade, and you will start reclaiming your pre-relationship self.  Give it time.  Keep the faith and keep moving forward. 

Thank you for your encouragement.  I'm glad that it wasn't more than a year.  I know some people are with their BPD for decades.  How tragic.  You're six months out?  I can't wait until I'm there.  I'm still in utter disbelief how I'm still dealing with the fallout from this relatively short but aversive relationship.  This person does not deserve the mental effort and love that I was/am willing to give her.

[confusedbybdp]

Yeah, you're right.  That's part of what makes these relationships so jarring and confusing; it and their behavior just doesn't make sense, at least not in a typical way.  Effort and love doesn't equate to making the relationship better.  In fact it seems to make it worse, as it just raises the bar for what you need to do and is enabling.

So true...my therapist asked me to draw what I meant when I told her that I felt like the relationship with my ex was "psychological rape."  I wish I could show you the drawing, but basically it was two sketches.  The first one showed a woman's neutral face with an exposed (in the sketch) functioning brain.  The second sketch showed a woman, fearful and crying, with her brain looking like snakes, all scrambled coming out of her head.  I liken it to a computer virus.  It starts without you knowing it.  It invades your operating system.  It wrecks your system, and the only way to fix it is to remove the virus.  I know that sounds harsh, but I honestly can't think of any other way.  Love and effort don't work against distortions, victim mentality, lack of responsibility, etc.  And as you said, it seems to end up enabling "bad" behavior.  That's why we ruminate.  We keep turning it over in our minds for two reasons: 1) to try (in vain) to understand it and make sense of it, and 2) because our ex's don't take any responsibility or give us closure, so if anyone is going to try to make sense of it we have to!  In other words, we're left doing all the work, while they move on to the next unsuspecting person.  I would have written "unsuspecting victim," but I was afraid of sounding too "negative."   

[gizmocasci]

WOW want an interesting subject to come across. It's been 3 months of no contact for me as well, and wouldn't you know it, I drove by my ex today. She didn't see me, but I certainly saw her. Emotions flooded back and I so desperately wanted to message her. Tears began to shed, I began to shake, but I breathed my way through it. My longing and desire for her is real, but I kept reminding myself of all the hurtful words she tossed my way. So I wrote out a text message on my mac, but will never send it. I've come so far in 3 months, was it really worth the risk of throwing it all away? There's a world full of beautiful women out there, and although it sucks being in the position we are in, I have to trust that on the other end of this so called nightmare, a dream is waiting to be lived.

Best of luck moving forward.

R

[insideoutside]

What would I do if she did all of a sudden contact me?  I would probably entertain the possibility that she could realize that she has aversive tendencies, and that she would do something about it.  I don't think I'd bring up the past, but I'd be sure to setup boundaries and enforce them.  I would validate what she said, even if I disagree with it.  I would state my disagreement with it, but not argue.  And at the same I would try to help her grow into someone more functional.

This wouldn't work.  I also thought this after each argument and months of silent treatment that I had him figured out, and believed I was mentally stronger to deal with him.  I wasn't.  There was always something new to trigger me.  Also I am not the kind of person to sit with my feelings indefinitely so sooner or later I called him out on his BS, we'd argue and fall back in to silent treatment for months on end. Rinse and repeat.  I'm currently over 4 months ST this time round.  Previously it was nearly a year.

[lucidone]

That's why we ruminate.  We keep turning it over in our minds for two reasons: 1) to try (in vain) to understand it and make sense of it, and 2) because our ex's don't take any responsibility or give us closure, so if anyone is going to try to make sense of it we have to!  In other words, we're left doing all the work, while they move on to the next unsuspecting person.  I would have written "unsuspecting victim," but I was afraid of sounding too "negative."  

No, unsuspecting victim would be correct.  The other is under the assumption that the yet to be discovered BPD is a relatively normal person that would be able to have a functional relationship, and is unsuspecting of this level of disorder.  I certainly was unsuspecting.  Victim is also correct, unfortunately, as this BPD/NPD (and my presumption other BPDs) uses the other as an emotional crutch/punching bag/narcissistic supply.

[lucidone]

Emotions flooded back and I so desperately wanted to message her. Tears began to shed, I began to shake, but I breathed my way through it. My longing and desire for her is real, but I kept reminding myself of all the hurtful words she tossed my way. So I wrote out a text message on my mac, but will never send it. I've come so far in 3 months, was it really worth the risk of throwing it all away? There's a world full of beautiful women out there, and although it sucks being in the position we are in, I have to trust that on the other end of this so called nightmare, a dream is waiting to be lived.

Yikes.  Yeah I went through the same kind of thing yesterday after my original post.  I was on my way to my nieces birthday.  Went to the grocery store, which was the same one her and I went to all the time (and she used to work there), then drove by her old place where I picked her up a hundred times before, drove past a bunch of restaurants and stores that we've been to (this is all in the same area in which I live).  I started to get really sad and had to pull over.  Cried for 20 or so minutes, and then had to go home.  Couldn't even go to the party.

You're stronger than I was.  You didn't send the message.  I did.  Theres so many women in the world.  Its funny how our biology/psychology keeps us attached to specific ones, even if they behave and think in horrible ways.

[Rev]

If anyone can relate or has any input, feel free to respond.

So totally totally relate... SO much good stuff in this thread.  I'm at week 22 I believe.  At the difference now to week 12 is massive.  Still lingers - the hurt - the anger - the what if - but less now. 

The "no way I EVER want to speak to her again" is there pretty strong.

Someone said in this thread that you are at a real turning point. YES!  Tell yourself - you've almost turned the corner. The work from here on in will be different.

You got this.

Rev

[lucidone]

There was always something new to trigger me.  Also I am not the kind of person to sit with my feelings indefinitely so sooner or later I called him out on his BS, we'd argue and fall back in to silent treatment for months on end. Rinse and repeat.  I'm currently over 4 months ST this time round.  Previously it was nearly a year.

How could one possibly have a relationship while giving/receiving silent treatment for months on end?  That must be hard for you to deal with.  I actually had no idea what was going on before we broke up.  It was only after we broke did I understand why and what was happening, and am better equipped to deal with hit.  It probably wouldn't change anything in the long run.

This one has narcissistic tendencies as well.  There is a sense of entitlement and lack of empathy and lack of consideration of others thoughts and feelings.  There wouldn't even be the chance for months of silent treatment.  If something like that started to happen, she would blame the other person, and discard them because 'she deserves' better.  God its so dysfunctional.

[insideoutside]

How could one possibly have a relationship while giving/receiving silent treatment for months on end?  That must be hard for you to deal with.

Ah; this was a friend but I had been in a relationship with him 30 years prior.  He still tried it on at times despite me being married.  I tried to help him and it got thrown in my face time after time.  I also think he has narc traits too.

[confusedbybdp]

I keep thinking that we are paying the price for someone's abuse of our ex, if in fact the theories are correct that abuse during childhood contributes to the development of BPD.  As you guys already know, there are all kinds of theories about causal relationships, but most studies seem to dovetail with childhood abuse and invalidation, among other things.

I feel like we are a "second generation" to that original childhood abuse.  So, not only did my ex's parent(s) abuse and invalidate him, but because of the state they left him in, the abuse and invalidation was carried forward to me!    

It makes sense that the "victim" of past abuse (our ex) would in turn victimize us.  The victim becomes the victimizer.  This often happens with childhood abuse - someone whose parent beats them or tears them down psychologically grows up to be an adult who abuses his or her own children.  That's how generations of abuse are perpetuated.  Hmmm...It helps me to keep this in mind as I struggle with processing my relationship. 

I abhor victim mentality, and generally want to get as far away as possible from a person who sees themselves as a perpetual victim of others and the world at large.  My ex was a perfect example of the "professional victim."  But strangely, in this case, his "poor me" demeanor triggered compassion on my part.  I stepped toward him, rather than away.  I really think that people with BPD are masters at finding and using whatever "hook" they can to reel us in.  My ex knew me as a casual acquaintance before we got involved in a romantic relationship, so he already knew a little bit about me.  Specifically, he knew that I was a rescuer and had a soft heart for animals and the elderly.  That was in my DNA.  Not co-dependency, but just altruism.  What I had considered my strengths (to empathize and assist) became my achilles heel.  In other words, he knew what buttons to push to get his needs met. 

This "maladaptive" behavior was learned in childhood in order to survive and get their needs met by abusive, invalidating, inconsistent, and/or indifferent caregivers (parents or parent-substitutes).  These maladaptive strategies became embedded in their thinking and behavior patterns, and they naturally continued to use them when they reached adulthood.  Unfortunately, these strategies "hooked" us when we became involved with them, and it's what makes it so difficult to leave them. In other words, these strategies continue to work for them, despite their devastating consequences for us.

[gizmocasci]

I started to get really sad and had to pull over.  Cried for 20 or so minutes, and then had to go home.  Couldn't even go to the party.

You're stronger than I was.  You didn't send the message.  I did.  Theres so many women in the world.  Its funny how our biology/psychology keeps us attached to specific ones, even if they behave and think in horrible ways.

Its OK to cry, your releasing pent up emotion. Let that PLEASE READ flow, and let that PLEASE READ go! Your strong in your own ways, give yourself credit. We've come too far to turn back. I know how much this hurts, just keep moving forward. She's out there waiting!

[lucidone]

I keep thinking that we are paying the price for someone's abuse of our ex, if in fact the theories are correct that abuse during childhood contributes to the development of BPD.  As you guys already know, there are all kinds of theories about causal relationships, but most studies seem to dovetail with childhood abuse and invalidation, among other things.

...

This "maladaptive" behavior was learned in childhood in order to survive and get their needs met by abusive, invalidating, inconsistent, and/or indifferent caregivers (parents or parent-substitutes).  These maladaptive strategies became embedded in their thinking and behavior patterns, and they naturally continued to use them when they reached adulthood.  Unfortunately, these strategies "hooked" us when we became involved with them, and it's what makes it so difficult to leave them. In other words, these strategies continue to work for them, despite their devastating consequences for us.

We definitely are paying the price for whatever our exs went through, although I've read that some of BPD can be partly due to structural brain abnormalities.  I've read that they'll try to find someone that will be more likely to cater to them and what they need (tolerant, kind, and attentive individuals), at least subconsciously.  There's definitely a type that they go for, which probably explains why this is the second one that I've been involved with in my life time.

I've also read that they try to recreate the child/parent dynamic, maybe because they didn't get that satisfaction when they were children.  It would explain some of the abnormal behavior and expectations that my BPD exhibited.  Wanting unconditional love, temper tantrums, only caring about oneself, wanting excessive attention, wanting me to bend over backwords for her, wanting me to take care of her emotional well-being, and various other unrealistic expectations.  Basically Freud's ID.  When you examine the BPD behavior, a lot of it seems excessively immature, like they're children.

[Rev]

 When you examine the BPD behavior, a lot of it seems excessively immature, like they're children.

Yes... they ... are...   totally.  Mine would even get so excited whenever one of her boys had artwork to do. She would literally take over as if it were here project. By the time we separated, her youngest was 14. 

The more I read here, the less foolish I feel for feeling like I did.

Thanks for this.

Rev

[1315]

I can relate to all of this. My upBPD wife announced she was leaving on August 11 out of nowhere. She had already found an apartment. This is the third time she has suddenly left in our 12 year relationship and 6 year marriage. We are in the process of a divorce (she insists but I don't want). I didn't become aware of BPD until she left. I have been so depressed. Had she not chosen to throw me away, I would continue to be with her. I just keep taking it and taking it. But she has made the decision for all of us that the marriage is over. I replay everything in my head over and over. I feel lost without her. I really miss her. While there were challenges in our marriage, I still love her. I've thought about what I would do if she decided to come back. I really do not know what I would do. In my mind I know that she would likely be unchanged and this would happen to me down the road again. But in my heart, I just want my wife back. Although I'm not even sure anymore I know who she really is. I never thought she was capable of the cold, calculated treatment of me. I'm angry and sad and depressed at the situation but not really at the person. That's the crazy part to me. I would never let another person treat me like this. I am so different than I was at the beginning of the relationship. I feel so much weaker. I was hoping after 3 months I would be better but I'm not. I'm so low. I feel like my life is over...I feel no happiness.

[confusedbybdp]

I am so different than I was at the beginning of the relationship. I feel so much weaker. I was hoping after 3 months I would be better but I'm not. I'm so low. I feel like my life is over...I feel no happiness.

Okay, 1315, get ahold of yourself!  Just kidding - not!

Number 1, your life is NOT over. 

Number 2 - of course you feel "weaker" - you were steamrolled by someone who is not well, and will never get well unless she gets diagnosed and goes through YEARS of specialized therapy.

Number 3 - I've never met you, but I can tell from what you've written that you are basically a good, kind man, a "nice guy."  Have you heard that "nice guys" are usually their favorite type?  Well, it's true.  Someone who will go to the ends of the earth for them.  Problem is, when you get there, assuming the earth is flat, they will push you off!

I'll write more later, but I wanted to try to pull you back from the edge before I had dinner.   

[Forgiveness]

Our brains are designed to ruminate. We see a problem that is unsolved and we keep turning it this way and that because we never had a feeling of resolution. It's like: if we only just said the exact right thing to our exes then suddenly they would say, "Aha! You are so right. Now I will act completely differently."

Our big analytical human brains are wired to think through problems, but get stuck in a loop when the problem is unsolvable. So there we are, repeating thoughts.

[gizmocasci]

I am so different than I was at the beginning of the relationship. I feel so much weaker. I was hoping after 3 months I would be better but I'm not.

I can relate to feeling weaker. My ex actually told me that during the end of the relationship, I had lost all my self confidence and worth. In my head I said, "yes because I allowed you to chop me done." Right now I'm in the process of building it all back up. Surround yourself with good people, nourishing foods and a few journals. Thearpy is also on the to do list, if its something you can manage. Don't be hard on yourself about not feeling better. I'm also 3 months out, and found myself crying in the shower today. I said to myself, "I can't believe how cruel and unkind she was towards me at times, and here I am sitting in my shower crying." That being said, I also was able to self soothe myself and allow myself to feel saying that it was OK to feel that way. It's ok to feel however you need to feel. Hang in there brother, it will get better.

R

[confusedbybdp]

I've also read that they try to recreate the child/parent dynamic, maybe because they didn't get that satisfaction when they were children.  It would explain some of the abnormal behavior and expectations that my BPD exhibited.  Wanting unconditional love, temper tantrums, only caring about oneself, wanting excessive attention, wanting me to bend over backwords for her, wanting me to take care of her emotional well-being, and various other unrealistic expectations.  Basically Freud's ID.  When you examine the BPD behavior, a lot of it seems excessively immature, like they're children.

I totally agree, lucidone.  My ex was brilliant in some ways, but he was a complete child in many other ways.  He lived in complete squalor, dressed like he was homeless, was hit or miss with personal hygiene, and wanted me to rock him to sleep.  He once spoke with his therapist about our differences in sexual desire.  According to my ex, the therapist asked him if it might be because he was sending "mixed messages" - he wanted me sexually, but he also wanted me to "mother him."   I definitely believe that they want to be re-parented.  To correct the "wrongs" from the past.

[Rev]

I was hoping after 3 months I would be better but I'm not. I'm so low. I feel like my life is over...I feel no happiness.

K... so I'm going to tell you that from the surface your situation and mine sound pretty similar.  And because of that I'm going to tell you what I did that worked and I will trust that you will take it and make it your own in a way that make sense to you.

Mid June I discover that my now exBPD wife is running up our debt beyond control because she is bankrolling her newly found biological brother and there is some level of an emotional affair happening between the two of them. Gross and shocking big time. I watched it happen over a four month period, but denial is a pretty powerful thing and then it all hits.  Within an hour of confronting the spending - the marriage is over. Withing another hour, she wants the basis of the separation in place - the "exit strategy" she calls it. Wonderful. My head is spinning because I need to find a place to stay in a city with a 1.7% vacancy rate.

Today - I am in a new and wonderful relationship - and even though I still fight the feelings of shame and PTSD symptoms every day - they are lessening at a faster and faster rate now.  Here is what I did.

1) I gave myself 72 hours to have the biggest pity party of my life.  Laid it all out - cried and screamed and drank a little too much even.

2) I put a plan down with a to-do list. Find a place, get my name off the old lease, that kind of stuff.

3) I have a mentor at work that I trust with my life. I told her what was going on. I let her coach me through all the no contact stuff. Some of her advice was really counter intuitive to what I would normally have wanted to do. Good thing I listened to her and didn't listen to my instincts at the time.

4) I chose three friends - only three - who did not know of each other but knew of each other - to hold me to account to make sure I followed through on the things I needed to do. They loved me unconditionally even as they held me to account. I did not listen to anyone else's advice. Too many cooks - that kind of thing.

5) I took the offensive with my ex. I read everything I could on BPD and NPD to get the upper hand in the separation. Even though it felt awful to mess with her that way, it was the only way I could think of to get her claws out of me - which were pretty tenacious because she tried more than once to charm me.

6) Once I got some steam behind me, I did counselling. CBT to be exact to deal with the PTSD. That was the toughest part because I kept reliving the images in my head.  I literally forced myself with the help of the CBT to train my brain to think differently. I did that every day for a month - long enough for new habits to form.

7) And then I got tough. She called to bully me on the phone because she didn't want to sign the separation agreement as it was - she wanted to talk about it instead.  No dice. I told her - '' I am so done with you now'' and "here's one thing you don't get to do now - tell me what to do.'' Then I blocked her on social media. She went ballistic. I toughed it out. She showed up to my work place two months later with some personal effects she had been holding on to, I slapped a cease and desist on her and her new brother. She went even more basllistic.

8) All of it hurt like hell because at the time, I would have taken her back. But here's the thing. There never was a her. It was all lies. The very premise for us getting together in the first place was a lie. And every time I feel like I am slipping, I log on here, listen to good quality pod casts or go back to read good stuff. And I remember who she is and what she did to me.

I hope this helps... make it your own. Find your own strategy. You do sound like a great guy. You got steamrolled as someone put it. You"ll get back up. And one day you'll be helping people do the same.

Be strong my friend. She's not worth it. Maybe who you thought she was is. But who she really is - not worth it.

There is someone who is tho. And she's waiting to meet the improved version of your best self.

Yours in the deepest sense of friendship.

Rev

[lucidone]

I can relate to all of this. My upBPD wife announced she was leaving on August 11 out of nowhere. She had already found an apartment. This is the third time she has suddenly left in our 12 year relationship and 6 year marriage. We are in the process of a divorce (she insists but I don't want). I didn't become aware of BPD until she left. I have been so depressed. Had she not chosen to throw me away, I would continue to be with her. I just keep taking it and taking it. But she has made the decision for all of us that the marriage is over. I replay everything in my head over and over. I feel lost without her. I really miss her. While there were challenges in our marriage, I still love her. I've thought about what I would do if she decided to come back. I really do not know what I would do. In my mind I know that she would likely be unchanged and this would happen to me down the road again. But in my heart, I just want my wife back. Although I'm not even sure anymore I know who she really is. I never thought she
was capable of the cold, calculated treatment of me. I'm angry and sad and depressed at the situation but not really at the person. That's the crazy part to me. I would never let another person treat me like this. I am so different than I was at the beginning of the relationship. I feel so much weaker. I was hoping after 3 months I would be better but I'm not. I'm so low. I feel like my life is over...I feel no happiness.

Thats a long time to be with someone only to be discarded.  One year was bad enough.  I'm so sorry that you're going through this.  Based on my understanding, they don't change unless they recognize that they have a personality disorder or otherwise certain tendencies, and they need to go to therapy, probably for years (as per a therapist I was seeing).  If mine came back, she would eventually start acting the same way, because thats how she is.  It's not a mood, it's her personality.  The first time I experienced her outburst I was in shock.  Never had I expected this person who apparently loved me to be so vicious and cold.  There was a certain thoroughness and casualness to it.  I should've just ended it then.

It's interesting that we'd let this specific person treat us this way, but not others.  To me it seems that we were conditioned at some point for this, like a parent that we need and love who happens to be cruel at times.

If you're open to her coming back and trying to work things out, I know that this site has good information on how to try and deal with the various BPD behaviors.  At least you'd be better equipped.

[lucidone]

Our brains are designed to ruminate. We see a problem that is unsolved and we keep turning it this way and that because we never had a feeling of resolution. It's like: if we only just said the exact right thing to our exes then suddenly they would say, "Aha! You are so right. Now I will act completely differently."

Our big analytical human brains are wired to think through problems, but get stuck in a loop when the problem is unsolvable. So there we are, repeating thoughts.

This is probably true.  Although I don't think anymore that I could've did anything different to change the outcome, because it would've happened eventually, just in a different way.  But we try to find a logical way to solve a problem.  The issue with that is that the problem isn't logical.

I think part of it, at least for me, has something to do with an insecure anxious attachment style.  It's been shown that they have a hard time letting go of relationships, and that its more prevalent in their minds, both during and after it ends.

[lucidone]

8) All of it hurt like hell because at the time, I would have taken her back. But here's the thing. There never was a her. It was all lies. The very premise for us getting together in the first place was a lie. And every time I feel like I am slipping, I log on here, listen to good quality pod casts or go back to read good stuff. And I remember who she is and what she did to me.

I hope this helps... make it your own. Find your own strategy. You do sound like a great guy. You got steamrolled as someone put it. You"ll get back up. And one day you'll be helping people do the same.

Be strong my friend. She's not worth it. Maybe who you thought she was is. But who she really is - not worth it.

Thanks for sharing your story and strategy.  Trying to figure out who she really is was difficult.  Of course we want it to be the person who was there during the idealization period.  Of course they aren't, and we'll never see them at that level again.  My BPD had good qualities.  She was attractive, fit, intelligent, and was more of an introvert than me, which I actually liked.  She had a good sense of humor and was playful.  Over time more and more negative qualities came out, and they became more extreme.  The insecurity, the immaturity, the selfishness, the extreme emotions, the lack of empathy, lack of remorse, lack of consideration for others thoughts and feelings.  All of that stuff was always there, she just hid it and held it back.  To me, THAT was the lie.  The masquerading as someone who cared what I thought and felt.  The pretending that I was a person rather than something to be used for her own selfish purposes.

[once removed]

first, i would say, there are a lot of reasons she may not have responded - at least yet.

she may not know what to do with it.
she may still be resentful.
she may be scared to. there has been police involvement.
she may fear being vulnerable.
she may think its a game, or a trap.
she may just not be ready.

shes probably asking some of the questions that you are (if i were to be contacted what would it mean, what would i do).

it sounds like youre taking the lack of response personally, as rejection. id feel the same way. i sent my ex a text that i wanted to fight for our relationship, and i stayed glued to my phone in a state of unfathomable anxiety for several hours, and she ignored it. i regretted sending it and wished i could take it back.

but it may be more complicated than that. let the message stand. it didnt hurt to send. and it may, ultimately, thaw some of the ice.

[Rev]

All of that stuff was always there, she just hid it and held it back.  To me, THAT was the lie.  The masquerading as someone who cared what I thought and felt.  The pretending that I was a person rather than something to be used for her own selfish purposes.

You just hit the nail on the head!  For me, that was the most painful part of it all. I experienced that as incredibly de-humanizing.   

Whenever I feel my emotional state becoming unstable, I go to read an article such as this one:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

I find it helps.  Like in all grief processes, acceptance of reality as it is, independent of who you are and the "mistakes" you many think you have made is the end game.  And that's regardless of what her intentions were and are. A pwBPD is ill. Let's not forget that.  So while it's dehumanizing - it's not necessarily evil - unless it's co-morbid in NPD - then all bets are off in my opinion.

In private, I still allow myself to feel anger. Someone here pointed out that anger does serve its purpose, provided that its kept in check.

You'll get there.  You are already piecing it together. The shock will eventually wear off in stages. Give yourself time. The brighter sides of your days will get longer as the darker sides begin to fade.

Rev

[lucidone]

first, i would say, there are a lot of reasons she may not have responded - at least yet.

she may not know what to do with it.
she may still be resentful.
she may be scared to. there has been police involvement.
she may fear being vulnerable.
she may think its a game, or a trap.
she may just not be ready.

shes probably asking some of the questions that you are (if i were to be contacted what would it mean, what would i do).

it sounds like youre taking the lack of response personally, as rejection. id feel the same way. i sent my ex a text that i wanted to fight for our relationship, and i stayed glued to my phone in a state of unfathomable anxiety for several hours, and she ignored it. i regretted sending it and wished i could take it back.

but it may be more complicated than that. let the message stand. it didnt hurt to send. and it may, ultimately, thaw some of the ice.

Thanks for your input.  I don't think I'm taking it personally, but maybe I don't realize it yet.  I don't feel like I'm rejected.  I know her thoughts and feelings are/were irrational and distorted.  I know that I didn't do anything to warrant them.  I'm not sitting here waiting for her response.  I actually feel pretty good about sending her a message.  I've been thinking about that for months, and now that I finally let 'enough' time pass to do it, I feel really good about being able to send it.  It's a relief in a way.  Honestly I want more than anything else that she doesn't get back to me, because then I'll have less temptation to associate with her.  I won't follow up with her anytime soon.  Again, she won't change and nothing will be different in the long term.  I think the most realistic thing that I would want out of this is her realization that how she acted and thought was inappropriate. 

[lucidone]

You just hit the nail on the head!  For me, that was the most painful part of it all. I experienced that as incredibly de-humanizing.  

Whenever I feel my emotional state becoming unstable, I go to read an article such as this one:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves

I find it helps.  Like in all grief processes, acceptance of reality as it is, independent of who you are and the "mistakes" you many think you have made is the end game.  And that's regardless of what her intentions were and are. A pwBPD is ill. Let's not forget that.  So while it's dehumanizing - it's not necessarily evil - unless it's co-morbid in NPD - then all bets are off in my opinion.

In private, I still allow myself to feel anger. Someone here pointed out that anger does serve its purpose, provided that its kept in check.

You'll get there.  You are already piecing it together. The shock will eventually wear off in stages. Give yourself time. The brighter sides of your days will get longer as the darker sides begin to fade.

Rev

That's a good article.  One part of it that is really significant is this statement:
""But I love her!", you say.  Adult love is built on mutual interest, care and respect -- not codependency or rescuing."

She's told me that she loves me.  However outside of idealization she didn't show mutual interest, care or respect.  I also told her that I loved her, and while I feel that I had those things at the time, it wasn't mutual, and I'm sure that I felt that it wasn't, and so I don't think I actually loved her.  It makes me wonder if and how much we as their partners could love them the same way as we would in a healthy relationship.

Pretty sure she had NPD tendencies as well.  How could we define something as evil?  I would define it as the behavior that determines it.  There is the conscious decision to perform it.  If its partly due to an illness, does that somehow not make it evil?