My ex has contacted me - need to respond

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

My ex contacted me last night with one simple sentence.

Hi, Hoping you are keeping and doing well.

I haven't seen her in four months. Haven't spoken to her in two months. Is this an attempted recycle? What should I do? Life has been awful without her. I've missed her terribly. However, I don't want to go running back into a dreadful situation with her. She devalued me and discarded me at the end of the r/s. In the summer her 17 year old daughter sent me a text asking me not to come and see her mother as she didn't 'want to hear us argue.' I was very hurt by that as I always felt that I'd behaved well in front of her daughter. However, she had heard her mother shouting at me on several occasions and witnessed her physically attacking me.

After a relatively peaceful week's holiday in July, my ex devalued me again when we returned home and even cycled past me once without stopping, despite seeing me. She told me that she was having fun and then eventually cut me off again when I told her how hurt I was. She reconnected two weeks later as she wanted to see the play I was doing but when I told her that she couldn't expect me to invite her after cutting me off again, she told me that she wished she'd never met me. She stayed connected to WhatsApp for a week and then when I attempted to have a conversation with her a few days later she cut me off again. That was effectively the end of the r/s. She wanted me to chase and I simply didn't have the stomach for it after a year of stress.

However, if there was a chance we could have a proper r/s I'd like to try. I am now out of my marriage and I feel this would make a real difference to the dynamic of the r/s.  I suspect my ex has BPD (she has terrible rages, called me an abuser and threatened me with a smear campaign whenever she got upset with me) and me being married was always a source of insecurity for her. I have been doing alot of work on myself and am aware of my own emotional reactivity and also avoidant behaviours but am wary of her rages. We had a lovely start to the r/s and I really felt I'd met my soulmate. She has been sober in AA now for a year and a half. Is there any hope she could change in a relationship?


RF

[RomanticFool]

My ex contacted me last night with one simple sentence.

Hi, Hoping you are keeping and doing well.

I haven't seen her in four months. Haven't spoken to her in two months. Is this an attempted recycle? What should I do? Life has been awful without her. I've missed her terribly. However, I don't want to go running back into a dreadful situation with her. She devalued me and discarded me at the end of the r/s. In the summer her 17 year old daughter sent me a text asking me not to come and see her mother as she didn't 'want to hear us argue.' I was very hurt by that as I always felt that I'd behaved well in front of her daughter. However, she had heard her mother shouting at me on several occasions and witnessed her physically attacking me.

After a relatively peaceful week's holiday in July, my ex devalued me again when we returned home and even cycled past me once without stopping, despite seeing me. She told me that she was having fun and then eventually cut me off again when I told her how hurt I was. She reconnected two weeks later as she wanted to see the play I was doing but when I told her that she couldn't expect me to invite her after cutting me off again, she told me that she wished she'd never met me. She stayed connected to WhatsApp for a week and then when I attempted to have a conversation with her a few days later she cut me off again. That was effectively the end of the r/s. She wanted me to chase and I simply didn't have the stomach for it after a year of stress.

However, if there was a chance we could have a proper r/s I'd like to try. I am now out of my marriage and I feel this would make a real difference to the dynamic of the r/s.  I suspect my ex has BPD (she has terrible rages, called me an abuser and threatened me with a smear campaign whenever she got upset with me) and me being married was always a source of insecurity for her. I have been doing alot of work on myself and am aware of my own emotional reactivity and also avoidant behaviours but am wary of her rages. We had a lovely start to the r/s and I really felt I'd met my soulmate. She has been sober in AA now for a year and a half. Is there any hope she could change in a relationship?


RF

[Skip]

What would SSA say to do?

[Gemsforeyes]

And what does your Wisemind say to do?

[RomanticFool]

SLAA would tell me not to respond. My wise mind tells me not to respond. But I miss her. My circumstances have changed as I'm out of my marriage now. All through the trauma Skip you were telling me that I was not communicating with her well and Formflier told me that he could guarantee a better outcome with better communication. There has always been something about this woman that draws me. Balance that against the fact that she hasn't contacted me for over two months and I haven't seen her for four months. I was never sure if she was BPD or NPD or some combination of both. I don't know what she wants. It might just be a checking up on me  to see if I'm still into her rather than any desire to see me. She will have been sober for almost a year and a half now. Perhaps she has grown in some way. I don't know what to do or say to her. She left me so utterly devastated, didn't come and see my last play. Discarded me with no empathy at all. What does she want?

[Gemsforeyes]

If she has not changed one iota, and all of the responsibility for changing the dynamic of the relationship is therefore to fall on you, are you prepared to accept that responsibility?

That is what she wants.

My opinion only.

So... in order to continue your healing journey you do nothing and say nothing to her.  Not yet.

Gems

[RomanticFool]

Hi Gems,

I sent a one line message before I saw your message.
It read:

Hello, Surprised to hear from you. Hope you are ok.

She has not replied. I am a little way down the road to recovery and I was careful not to say anything that would be hurtful if she didn’t reply. I didn’t tell her I miss her or how lovely it was to hear from her. I felt better for replying and am neither surprised nor upset that she hasn’t replied. Ironically a friend in SLAA last night warned me that she might still contact me. I told him that would not happen as she told me at the beginning of the r/s that she moves on quickly and never goes back. I don’t know what she wants, it doesn’t necessarily smack of a recycle. I noted that she contacted me at 11.15pm last night. I have assumed that she has met someone else. Mainly because of what she said to me about having ‘other options.’ She may well have been scouring through old emails from me, perhaps missing me chasing her, and I note that the email she chose to reply to was one I wrote in August wishing her well and declaring that I was going to be alone for some time. I told her a couple of months ago that my marriage was over so maybe she is just trying to find out what’s going on. I haven’t been anywhere near her house or the local AA meeting for months. She will have no idea what I’ve been doing aside from the occasional post on Twitter, most recently about my dad’s cancer and hospitalisation. Not that she asked after him. She simply said she hopes I’m keeping and doing well. Perhaps the doing well bit is her projection of her perception that my career may be thriving. That was always a big thing to her. Anyway, no point trying to second guess. I’ll just carry on getting on with my life.

[RomanticFool]

There has been no further word from my ex. I am back to feeling in turmoil.

[Skip]

Shouldn't you let this go? For your own sake?

One of the hardest lessons in life is that relationships fail because it just wasn't the right time for them. Regardless of the potential, the timing was wrong.

Understanding and accepting this is good mental hygiene.

This relationship fell apart over trust and the subsequent arguing about it. You said you were divorcing... fast forward to today... you are not divorcing nor is a divorce filing in the  horizon. Not planned for this year. Not planned for next.

So, ultimately, all the ingredients that broke down the relationship remain in place and it won't take much to trigger up the resentments, trust issues, and fighting again.

You may have made progress is your reaction to her reactions (the cycle of conflict) - you did that in the last affair - but is that enough?

Sometimes a relationship -  just gets sucked dry - doesn't mean the base attraction is gone. I can't think of a single ex of mine that I still don't find attractive, interesting, and have a connection to. I also can't think of a single ex that I would go back to. The relationships ran their course and whether it was 1 year or 10, they ran their course.

Can you see  this?

Can you feel this?

[Rev]

There has been no further word from my ex. I am back to feeling in turmoil.

This is why no contact is so important. Humbly, I would suggest that you try to get a place of clarity to understand that what you are likely being asked for is not what you are giving.

You are hoping to connect with her? No?   She is looking to connect too. Just not with you. She's looking to connect with herself.  Because that connection is never permanent for her. It always fades.  Sad - yes. True - yes too.

My guess - because the stories are always the same - is that the contact is has nothing to do with you - one way or the other - not to make you feel good - not to make you feel bad - not to necessarily make you feel anything - except to feel and therefore reach out.

What does she really get out of this? Any kind of contact to shore up her lack of sense of self. That's it - nothing more - but nothing less either.  And the deeper her lack of sense of self goes - the more empty you will end up feeling.

Hang in there... it will be easier.

Rev

[RomanticFool]

This is why no contact is so important. Humbly, I would suggest that you try to get a place of clarity to understand that what you are likely being asked for is not what you are giving.

You are hoping to connect with her? No?   She is looking to connect too. Just not with you. She's looking to connect with herself.  Because that connection is never permanent for her. It always fades.  Sad - yes. True - yes too.

Not sure I fully understand this. Yes, NC is important but I have always hoped for a reconnection. If she isn't looking to connect with me, why reach out?

My guess - because the stories are always the same - is that the contact is has nothing to do with you - one way or the other - not to make you feel good - not to make you feel bad - not to necessarily make you feel anything - except to feel and therefore reach out.

Yes, this I do understand and agree. She probably had a weak moment. She's never done anything good for me. She has always been selfish and lacking empathy towards me except at the beginning.

What does she really get out of this? Any kind of contact to shore up her lack of sense of self. That's it - nothing more - but nothing less either.  And the deeper her lack of sense of self goes - the more empty you will end up feeling.

Assuming she is BPD or NPD. Ultimately she just comes across as totally self centred to me.  When she behaves with such little regard for me it makes me hurt and angry.

Hang in there... it will be easier.

I hope so. Life is bleak and barren without the love I felt. I really miss being with her.

[RomanticFool]

I wrote her a detailed love email today and there has been no response. I think she just wanted to see if I was still hooked on her. After everything we shared together and all the stress of a marriage break up, I find her characteristically lacking in empathy. It’s crystal clear she doesn’t care about me at all. I am devastated all over again.

[Rev]

I am devastated all over again.

My mentor, in convincing me - and I use the word "convince" on purpose - to go no contact said two things that landed and stuck - maybe they will stick with you.

1) Stop trying to have a conversation with a person that doesn't exist.

2) You can't have only a little bit of heroin.

Stay strong.

Rev.

[RomanticFool]

That sounds like sage advice. This is a woman who begged me to leave my wife and now my marriage is over she has gone. It’s utterly incredible really.

[SinisterComplex]

RF, honestly man don't get sucked back in. As tempting as it is you are only thinking of the fantasy, not the reality. So instead of providing my own words I will use lyrics from Shinedown's Cut the Chord song...

"'Cause agony brings no reward
For one more hit and one last score
Don't be a casualty, cut the cord
cut the cord
(Freedom, la la la la)
(Freedom)"

I honestly don't believe I could put it any better than that!

Cheers!

[Steps31]

Romantic,

I dont' know you and you don't know me, (meaning I haven't commented on your post before) but I find that I ask myself this question that might be useful to you - Do you honestly believe believe that she is CAPABLE of having a healthy relationship?

[RomanticFool]

Thanks guys, these are very important considerations. You are both of course spot on with your points. The song is very apt and I think I would have to answer that I don’t think she wants to have any kind of relationship with me, healthy or otherwise. I don’t think she is capable at the moment of having a healthy relationship with me - I don’t know about anybody else. Our r/s was conceived during difficult time’s and she clearly wants no more. I find it frustrating in the extreme now that I’m free. Who knows what could happen down the line. Apart from empathy, my main issue with her is a refusal to see her part in anything. At least as far as I was concerned - she may be more reasonable with others but I think her temper has probably caused trouble for her in the past and will in the future. She never told me much detail about her past relationships other than they were all good and that I was bad. Then it transpired on holiday that somebody had allegedly drugged and raped her. She made me cry with that tale. After sharing such personal information she then dumped me a week and a half later. I feel so attached to this woman.

[Rev]

I feel so attached to this woman.

How much do you know about how trauma bonds work?

I would suggest that they are more difficult to overcome than meets the eye - and this would be particularly true for empathetic men. There is much legitimate research out there over a 25 year period to support this opinion.

I might be off base here, and maybe it's me who's being triggered, but there's something in your words that suggests that the trauma bond is deeper than you might realize. Which is a long way to say - cut yourself some slack.

Rev

[RomanticFool]

Hey Rev,

I don’t know much about it though I am starting therapy soon. I have requested a therapist who specifically deals with personality disorders. There is no doubt this runs deep and I am still thinking about suicide way too much. I have had to stop myself emailing her tonight to tell her how much she has let me down and that my dad is dying of cancer - she always said she’d love to meet him. I can barely cope with the thought that she won’t meet him. What’s that about?

[Enabler]

I want my ex but if she has met someone else I would never talk to her again. She has been abusive and lacking in empathy or love. I hate her and love her. I don’t want to be without her but I know she feels nothing for me at all.

...she is the woman I’d been looking for my whole life. When I’m with her I feel that life has meaning. No other woman has ever made me feel that I can finally live when I’m with her.

RF, have you ever heard of the crazy 8's? Depression isn't linear, it has a tendency to swing around like a pendulum. We might have feelings of despondence, we're in the hole, the things we've ALWAYS wanted are unattainable, those things that might or did give us meaning/purpose/happiness/________ . We tend to be sad, hopeless, maybe suicidal. These emotions make us feel vulnerable and weak, they in themselves are unpleasant emotions. After some time (could even be minutes) we start to loath this sense of weakness and attempt to cognitively shake ourselves out of it by lurching to the opposite extreme, that of a more powerful emotion... anger, resentment, critical and hostility. This feels rewarding for a time but it involves energy to cognitively push things away. These feelings are as remote to our own sense of who we are as the sadness and hopelessness... so, in time we slump back to the weaker feelings of sadness in an attempt to avoid being that person. In many senses this is rapid swing from black to white and back to black.

The truth doesn't lie in either Black or White (dichotomous thinking), it lies in the centre. Your relationship have neither been all bad or all good, they have been somewhere on that spectrum... and thus you need to look at them so... in the grey. You can see from the quotes above that you have fluctuated between sad and angry, sad and angry even in the space of a short sentence. Then you ask yourself how can this be? It can be because your relationships were not black and white, they were grey... however, from what I have read of all your posts, they have been net net towards the darker end of the spectrum than the white, and as such, they have been problematic. Maybe your own tendency to see things in a very black and white way has fed into each relationship dynamic. Seeing something as all good or all bad at the same time feels odd... being able to merge those conflicted feeling together into something of a blended picture might sit better with reality.

Enabler

[RomanticFool]

Enabler,

Thanks for your message.

RF, have you ever heard of the crazy 8's? Depression isn't linear, it has a tendency to swing around like a pendulum. We might have feelings of despondence, we're in the hole, the things we've ALWAYS wanted are unattainable, those things that might or did give us meaning/purpose/happiness/________ . We tend to be sad, hopeless, maybe suicidal. These emotions make us feel vulnerable and weak, they in themselves are unpleasant emotions. After some time (could even be minutes) we start to loath this sense of weakness and attempt to cognitively shake ourselves out of it by lurching to the opposite extreme, that of a more powerful emotion... anger, resentment, critical and hostility. This feels rewarding for a time but it involves energy to cognitively push things away. These feelings are as remote to our own sense of who we are as the sadness and hopelessness... so, in time we slump back to the weaker feelings of sadness in an attempt to avoid being that person. In many senses this is rapid swing from black to white and back to black.

I'm feeling these things regularly now. I very much miss my ex's company, despite all of the abuse. I went out with friends last weekend and am now currently cultivating more male relationships to avoid slipping back into the same situation again, but it's very difficult. I feel very lonely at the moment. My wife is away much of the time with her new man and when she comes back here, I try very hard to be  friendly but some days my grief gets the better of me. I feel very tearful much of the time, not really over my marriage but the loss of my ex and also the general wreckage of my relationships. Today my ex gf (affair number 1) cut me off WhatsApp and has said the friendship is over. I hadn't been talking to her recently about my recent ex as she said she didn't want to hear anymore. Fair enough, but it was her idea to talk to me about it in the first place. I guess this is inevitable.

On Sunday I had a very bleak day and contacted her via WhatsApp and then deleted the messages as it wasn't a good idea. She asked me what I had said in the messages and I just said 'the feeling has passed.' She then got angry and asked me why I thought it was ok to contact her with my stuff still. I reminded her that I hadn't been talking to her about it as I didn't want to burden her. She then called me selfish and said I haven't asked her a thing about her life. I told her that I always ask after her and reminded her that when she was feeling in a dark place I have always been there to listen. I told her that my love had always been unconditional and said I would have thought she would remember that I have loved her. She then replied 'Loved - in the past tense. This friendship is over. I will not be drained anymore.'

My feeling about this is that of course I could have been more empathetic towards her but her line of attack was starting to remind me of my recent ex. I think both of the relationships have similarities in the way the women related to me and the way I responded to them. I have pointed this out to my previous ex several times as she is now a counsellor and thought we could at least discuss it. However, she has responded by blocking me and cutting me off WhatsApp and unfriending me on Facebook. It's just another emotional kick in the teeth but since I am cleaning house and clearing all of the unhealthy and dysfunctional relationships out of my life, this one is probably way overdue. Ex number one is often angry at me as she is jealous of my ex number two and my feelings for her. I understand her point of view and told her that I have empathy for her but I think she needs to distance herself from me. I see this as having to let go of another unhealthy r/s. I am trying to respond without rancour and with dignity while being honest, but I think there is too much blood under the bridge. It's time to transform my life and let go of these relationships that trigger me and cause me to be constantly on the defensive. I want real friends now. Not angry exes.

SLAA is going well and I have applied for private counselling while being on the waiting list for an NHS psychiatrist. Next year promises to be a more positive and healthy one and I will be working on my male friendships before I consider any other relationships. I am lonely. I still wonder what my recent ex is doing every day and miss the days she worked from home, the trips to bookshops and coffee shops, the movies, theatre, meals out, walking in the park and holding hands with her. I cry quite a bit when I think of her with another man, but I know this is the right path for me at the moment. I need to find out who I am.

[Enabler]

RF, what are you doing to observe yourself being in the crazy 8's and taking action to get yourself back to centre, and when I say get yourself back to centre contacting other people to help you is one solution but it's not a long term one. Often there are physical and thought based cues that you're heading down a loop which you can take action to remedy. Are you observing those cue's and seeking ways to stimulate yourself out of that state. Very very simple things like playing a particular type of music can launch you into another direction. Brisk walks are a classic, even body posture.

Enabler

[happendtome]

Hi RomanticFool,
I remember when you came to this board. It was more than 2 years ago already. I have been away from these boards, but now reading this i wonder WTF? It seems that everything has gone wrong with you and your situation is even worse than it was before.

You know, in some ways im jealous, you are that "lucky" guy who can still talk to your "love one". I wish i could talk to my ex too, sometimes, often, but then logical side says to me - why, what does it give to me?

You are in the hook, you cant be free. Sometimes things end and we have to accept it. You cant be together with her, because past will always bring topics up. You see, it will be fight after fight. Its not love, its our ego. You dont love her, but you want to control her. and vice versa

[Enabler]

RF, what are you doing to observe yourself being in the crazy 8's and taking action to get yourself back to centre, and when I say get yourself back to centre contacting other people to help you is one solution but it's not a long term one. Often there are physical and thought based cues that you're heading down a loop which you can take action to remedy. Are you observing those cue's and seeking ways to stimulate yourself out of that state. Very very simple things like playing a particular type of music can launch you into another direction. Brisk walks are a classic, even body posture.

Enabler

[RomanticFool]

I meditate and play piano mainly. I also go to meetings and try to avoid emotional involvement with other women. I'm aiming for emotional serenity at the moment.