Glad to find a group like this

[Learning5]

Hi!

I am glad I have found this group. I will introduce my situation--hopefully briefly!

I am pretty sure that my mother has BPD. She is 84, and I have been trying to "explain" her to others my whole life. I found a description of BPD last year and a light bulb went off. It was wonderful to know I could quit trying to fix her. I have learned simply to listen and assure her I love her. I am the one she relies on.

My current dilemma is how to deal with others who are upset with her behavior who want me to intervene because of something she has done, or who are concerned about her. It would be easier if she lived alone, but she lives with my stepdad who is 86, and I feel compelled to try to protect or help him. I also need to deal with his sister and my stepsister who are concerned about her erratic behavior.

One brother lives a long ways away and sees her only rarely. The other brother lives in the same town as she and tries to help, but he has a job, a wife, two daughters, and seven grandchildren.

I would like to convince her to try antidepressants again, but she is pretty set against anything. Nothing is wrong with her--the problem is everybody else, especially my stepdad.

Thank you for listening.

[Methuen]

Hello Learning5

Welcome

My mom is 83, and as she ages, I have found my challenges with her to be significantly amped up, especially since my dad passed away 15 yrs ago.  Last summer I found this board, got a new counsellor, started reading books, and since I put it all those pieces together, I am feeling stronger and more supported.  I am also learning how to interact with her differently because she is BPD.  I hope you also find the help you are looking for.

I have been trying to "explain" her to others my whole life.

Can you give an example?

My current dilemma is how to deal with others who are upset with her behavior who want me to intervene because of something she has done, or who are concerned about her.

Another example here would be super helpful.

I also need to deal with his sister and my stepsister who are concerned about her erratic behavior.

From the 3 quotes above, the theme I'm feeling is that you are feeling a lot of responsibility for her behavior...does that sound right, or am I off with that?

It was wonderful to know I could quit trying to fix her.

Good!  If she's BPD, nobody else can fix that, or rescue her from her problems.  It doesn't matter how much you love her, or hard you try.  I have learned that more contact I have with my mom, the worse her behavior gets and the more unsafe I feel emotionally.

I would like to convince her to try antidepressants again, but she is pretty set against anything.

Being against meds perfectly describes my mom too - until she found out her best friend was on an antidepressant, and suddenly that made it OK for her to think it was acceptable for her to be on one too.  So then she went to her family Dr, and asked for exactly the same antidepressant as her friend.  He prescribed it for her.  My mom also refused a "Lifeline" service too, until a different best friend told mom she (the 2nd friend) wore a Lifeline.  Then suddenly it was acceptable in mom's eyes for her to get Lifeline too.  My mom is OCD about her image.  If I had suggested an antidepressant for mom (she was truly severely depressed this summer and I was at risk of becoming depressed too), she would have pushed back, and probably raged and blamed me for her depression .  But because the friend was on an antidepressant, I suspect mom thought it was OK because her friend was on it.  I share this in case you happen to know a friend of your mom's who could be on an antidepressant.  Not much of a solution I know, but it's the best I have to offer at the moment.  A year after my dad passed away, my mom was severely depressed and talking about jumping off a bridge, blaming everyone else for her problems etc etc.  It got so bad, that one day I packed her into the car and told her we were going for a drive, and then drove her to see her doctor.  Suicide threats are pretty serious, so I had to try something.  Thankfully she got out of the car and came to his office with me.   He prescribed antidepressants.  If she hadn't come with me, the next step would have been calling an ambulance I guess.  Those are my only two experiences to share regarding my mom and antidepressants.  Sorry I don't have more to offer.  I can appreciate what you are going through though.  It's rough.  Lots of us have been there.

How serious do you think your mom's depression is?

Nothing is wrong with her--the problem is everybody else, especially my stepdad.

This is classic BPD:(

You posted about your mom, but I'm wondering how are YOU feeling and managing?

[Turkish]

My current dilemma is how to deal with others who are upset with her behavior who want me to intervene because of something she has done, or who are concerned about her

What behaviors require intervention, do you feel?.

Yes, she's your mother.  Yet his children are his children, and he chose to marry your mother.  That was his choice and their marriage is theirs, as adults. It's not your job to fix a marriage between two consenting adults. And it's not your job to fix or control your mother.  That's impossible.  

That being said, do you feel that he is in danger from her?

[Learning5]

You ask excellent questions, Turkish and Methuen, and you have made me think.

I think what I mean by "explaining" her is assuring people that her intentions were good even though she said or did something that hurt them, telling them that she didn't understand, or she was hurt about something and that justified her hurtful words or actions. Looking back, I can see that as a child I had to believe that my mother actually meant well. I see now the BP actions of someone unable to admit wrong, someone who believed that her happiness depended on getting others to do what she wanted.

As far as the others, including my stepdad's sister and my stepsister, as well as her Bible study leader--they would like me to use my influence to try to get her to agree to counseling and/or antidepressants. I think they would like me to somehow get her to stop insisting that my stepdad is in dementia (he's not), that her life is horrible, and stop saying negative things about my stepdad in public groups. They understand, however, that I don't have that kind of power, but they would like me to try to get her some help. They are concerned that she will try to commit suicide. I really don't think she would.  She does appear very depressed, though--crying lots and telling anyone who will listen that life is awful.

Because she has to be in control, she is responsible for their meals, laundry, medical appointments, shopping, etc. My stepdad no longer has his driver's license. She is getting to the point where she simply can't do it all anymore, but refuses to get help.

I would like to intervene to try to get her to accept medication or counseling so they can stay in their own home a while longer. That may not be an option, though.  And yet she won't accept that they need to move, either. Any change will be a battle.

My husband and I don't think she is a physical danger to my stepdad, but the others are concerned that she is. He loves her and doesn't want to leave her. He understands her in a way a lot of people don't, but it's difficult for those of us who care about him to see him labeled as "in dementia".  He is old and doesn't remember things as well as he used to, but has a firm grasp on reality.

However, you're right that I can't change her, I can't protect my stepdad from her outbursts if he wants to stay with her, and I can't guarantee I can get her to agree to see a counselor or take medication.

I would like to talk with her about those things, though. I know that I will have to craft my words carefully. Something like, "We are concerned about you. We know you have been struggling and we care. We would like you to have someone who can listen and help in a way we cannot."

1. Do you have any suggestions about what to say to her?
2. I have been reluctant to tell my stepsister or my stepdad's sister that I think my mom has BPD. I am concerned they will tell my stepdad who will tell my mom, who will then shut me out from helping them at all. I honestly don't think she will ever admit there is anything wrong with her (other than depression, possibly), and I would like to be able to help the two of them as I can. They obviously know something is wrong, but think it's depression or possibly just old age. Do you think I need to tell them my suspicions? Nothing has been officially diagnosed.

I have a good support system with my husband, my children, and a few friends. Sometimes it gets overwhelming when I feel as though I am being held responsible for her, but I do my best to remind myself and others (and so does my husband, especially) that I am not responsible. I care, but I cannot fix. I wish I could! Thankfully I live six hours away, so I am not physically on call most of the time. I do try to visit every six weeks or so.

My mom doesn't really have friends I could appeal to about antidepressants or counseling.

Thank you for listening and asking good questions.

[Turkish]

As far as the others, including my stepdad's sister and my stepsister, as well as her Bible study leader--they would like me to use my influence to try to get her to agree to counseling and/or antidepressants.

Why is this cast upon you? Because you're a blood relation to your mom? So is their dad to them. I wouldn't share your arm chair Dx of BPD. It's a difficult disorder to understand.  I found my way to this board by arm chair diagnosing my ex,  so I'm not judging you in that.  

Medication, even in combination with therapy might not be a cure all either. My mom under guidance of therapists took a long time to adjust to the right cocktail. My mother also went through seven therapists before she found one that she trusted.

I would focus on what you can control which is how you can approach her in a validating manner. One of the communication tools to learn is SET, explained here: 1.16 | Communicate - S.E.T. (Support, Empathy and Truth)

Let us know what you think. We have a lot of material here, but SET is a good start.  

[Methuen]

Hi Learning5

As far as the others, including my stepdad's sister and my stepsister, as well as her Bible study leader--they would like me to use my influence to try to get her to agree to counseling and/or antidepressants.

If your mom is BPD, and if you value a relationship with your mom, you (as daughter) probably should not take on the role of JADE'ing your mom, and talking to her about antidepressants etc etc.  If she is BPD, and you are the daughter, based on everything I have learned, this will backfire, and could blow up in your face.  If it didn't, then she probably isn't BPD.  

I'm with Turkish.  If they are so concerned as family, they could do the talking (hopefully they don't throw you under the bus in that conversation.  I'd be cautious about what you say to them, about your mom. If they do decide to talk with her, set a boundary and ask them to leave you out of the conversation entirely.  It should be about THEIR thoughts only).

I was where you are now, but 4 months ago.  I am thankful I used the resources on this board, and listened to people like Turkish, Harri, and everyone else.  All those links they give are super helpful.  So are all the books you can get your hands on and so is finding real time to read it all.  So is a really good counsellor.  Give yourself time to process.  Do that BEFORE you make a decision to talk to your mom, so that your decision is well-informed.  You won't regret it.

I think the best thing we daughters can do is learn about BP, and learn a whole new set of skills for interacting and communicating with our BP moms.  Don't get stuck in the old drama.  Encourage other family members to learn new skills too. 

As well as SET (from Turkish), validating questions is a good skill that FF has suggested.  I'm using both of these now.  Before I used to JADE, like every newbie, cs JADE'ing is how 95% of the population discusses, debates, and generally brings decent results (with healthy people in healthy relationships).  That doesn't work with BPD.   

I wish you well navigating this with family.  It likely won't be easy.