Black and White Mentality Discussion

[strugglingBF]

The black and white mentality seems to be a very common trait among BPs.  I have definitely seen this time and again with my GF; however, I have a questions about this.  She seems to have an extremely black and white mentality when it comes to me and my decisions, but she abandons this mindset when it suits her or if it doesn't go along with or justify her actions.  My best example of this is in dealing with the opposite sex.

She is very black and white with females that communicate with me.  Could be a female co-worker contacting me with a question.  Could be an ex-coworker who comments on a facebook post, or maybe we run across in a public place.  I get a lot of "why would she contact you?", "why would a coworker ask you about your weekend or your holiday plans?"  If they are too friendly, and by that I mean talk about anything other than business (but not remotely crossing any lines), she will straight up ask me if I really need to respond.  She won't even do something like eat dinner with one of my female coworkers AND HER HUSBAND because I have to schedule it through the female (which is the person I know and work with).  Having formerly been a cheater and cheating on my ex-wife, I am very careful with the opposite sex.  Very careful with verbal and non-verbal signals as not to give any wrong impressions.  I guess I am very sensitive to it because it is not the person I want to be.  Even with me being very careful with the opposite sex, my GF still finds a way to apply her black and white mentality to situations that are not remotely threatening.  She got mad at me once for asking a female coworker how her new job was going because I used to work with her and no longer did. 

Now for the her side.  First, my GF is a very beautiful woman.  She also works as a Realtor, so she deals with all sorts of people.  She has worked with multiple clients that have attempted to cross lines or at the very least throw out lines to see how she responds.  She never crosses back, but she also doesn't make it clear that she does not appreciate the attempts.  One example is a husband/wife client where the husband was extremely overcomplementary of her.  the husband would always start texts conversations without his wife included so he could throw lines out, even thought my GF would always text them both together.  At one point he text my GF a pic of her business card (which has her pic on it) and said something along the lines of "I will never lose this card...".  While she doesn't respond with any type of reciprocation, she does respond to everything which can give a more open vibe to the other party.  Sometimes it is best to make your point by not responding, or turning things back to business.  She will defend the texts/actions of people who throw these lines out.  However, if a female ever sent me something similar, her black and white mentality would come out with gusto.

So do those of you with experience with the black and white trait of BPD find that it is inconsistently applied in their favor?   

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[Chosen]

So do those of you with experience with the black and white trait of BPD find that it is inconsistently applied in their favor?   

In short, yes, and definitely.  My uBPDh and I don't have issues regarding the opposite sex, so no arguments in the area you're mentioning.  But the underlying issue is similar.  One thing we have (or used to have?  I can't be bothered to stand my ground on this one anymore) is actions vs intentions.  Say I did something with a good intention but it's not something he wants, e.g. I did some of the housework he has been planning to do, while sacrificing my own rest, but he wanted to do it and I would rest.  Both of our intentions would be for the other to get some rest.  It's supposed to be a loving thing, right?  But then it would end up being I'm wrong, he's right.  Because if I loved him I would listen to him; now I'm making up my own mind and doing what I THINK is good for him, but I'm ruining everything, I'm selfish etc.  He wouldn't acknowledge or care about my intentions.  He would just see the fact that I didn't listen to what he says he wants, and because of that I'm a self-righteous person.

However, you can basically argue that he is acting in the same way.  He wants me to rest, but does he consider what I want?  But he wouldn't think of it this way.  He would claim that his intentions are all for me, for me to rest.  Isn't that double standard?  If he only looks at the end product of the actions and not the intentions, then he should apply the same standards to himself.  But he doesn't view himself the same way. 

I think pwBPDs will twist their logic to justify their actions no matter what.  They may sound like they have a set of rules in which to govern their actions, but actually those rules are just used to judge others.  Does not apply to themselves because they can't be seen in a less-than-perfect light (I think they can't accept any fault in themselves, because black & white).  But I guess in my case it's easier to not stand my ground, because now I just tell myself, well he does it with a good intention, even though what he asks me to do isn't what I really want.  I try to accept and appreciate that this is his way of showing his love to me, and see the positive in it.  But I guess when there's a blur in relationships with the opposite sex involved, you can't really loosen your standards... so that's a tough one.

[Rev]

So do those of you with experience with the black and white trait of BPD find that it is inconsistently applied in their favor?   

In my case, it was always - and it escalated until it became very abusive. 

Rev

[strugglingBF]

In short, yes, and definitely.  My uBPDh and I don't have issues regarding the opposite sex, so no arguments in the area you're mentioning.  But the underlying issue is similar.  One thing we have (or used to have?  I can't be bothered to stand my ground on this one anymore) is actions vs intentions.  Say I did something with a good intention but it's not something he wants, e.g. I did some of the housework he has been planning to do, while sacrificing my own rest, but he wanted to do it and I would rest.  Both of our intentions would be for the other to get some rest.  It's supposed to be a loving thing, right?  But then it would end up being I'm wrong, he's right.  Because if I loved him I would listen to him; now I'm making up my own mind and doing what I THINK is good for him, but I'm ruining everything, I'm selfish etc.  He wouldn't acknowledge or care about my intentions.  He would just see the fact that I didn't listen to what he says he wants, and because of that I'm a self-righteous person.

This is my uBPgf to a T.  She is always accusing me of being selfish.  It baffles me, because I am always thinking of ways to make her day easier...throughout my entire day.  I will set my own needs aside time and time again to go out of my way for her.  She never offers to help me with anything.  She never looks to make my day easier.  It NEVER crosses her mind.  For example...I am divorced and have my kids week on week off.  I will leave my kids at home to go support her son's soccer game.  I think it is important to go to her son's games, so I try to make as many as i can.  However, my son will have a band concert and she will go to her adult soccer game instead of supporting my son.  It hurts and it bothers me, because I put so much emphasis on supporting her kids.  She has a very negative mindset with my son, but she loves my daughter.  I am starting to do more research on this website and it sounds like Splitting.  Sounds like she offsets her love of my daughter with hate for my son.  She is very over-critical of his every move, even though my son is literally almost the same as her son was at the same age.  Only difference is my son is in band and her son played soccer.  She acts like a boy is less of a man if they don't play sports, but I think that is honestly just a way to target my son.  Things like this have no basis in reality.  One of her best friends was a lifelong band person throughout school.  She doesn't judge him.  But she judges my son and calls him a puss and a geek.  These are moments it is very hard for me to bite my tongue. 

[strugglingBF]

In my case, it was always - and it escalated until it became very abusive. 

Rev

I know this is useless when dealing with BPD, but I can literally catch her in actions and words (both from her) that directly contradict each other.  I can see in her face that she knows it.  She will deny it until she is blue in the face.  If I push the issue, it will get ugly and she will most likely verbally attack my son or one of my other family members.  It really isn't worth pointing out, but it also literally can drive me insane.  Jaw-dropping insane at times.

[Rev]

I know this is useless when dealing with BPD, but I can literally catch her in actions and words (both from her) that directly contradict each other.  I can see in her face that she knows it.  She will deny it until she is blue in the face.  If I push the issue, it will get ugly and she will most likely verbally attack my son or one of my other family members.  It really isn't worth pointing out, but it also literally can drive me insane.  Jaw-dropping insane at times.

Sounds like what I lived to a T... every word. I am still sorting out the emotions, putting it back together.  My W tried to rationalize everything.  Even the separation - which started out along the lines "I (that's she) ran up the debt. You found out. I had to kick you out because you finding out and wanting to go to counselling means you hate me (she said those words)."  It finished with that the only reason she was leaving me was because this is what I wanted...   Never seen a roller-coaster like this one.   Thanks for letting me vent.

Rev.

[strugglingBF]

All of the tools for dealing with BP spouse are great.  But if they are not willing to work on themselves at some point, aren't you still fighting a losing battle?  Sometimes it feels like regardless of how I handle the situation she will still be BPD and that is like a constant dripping faucet of uneasiness in my life.  While the tools that are on this website are great and make a difference (ie turn the faucet from full blast to a slow drip).  However, there is a still a small drip that eventually catches up with you and causes chaos, uneasiness, stress, insecurity...

[Ozzie101]

All of the tools for dealing with BP spouse are great.  But if they are not willing to work on themselves at some point, aren't you still fighting a losing battle?  Sometimes it feels like regardless of how I handle the situation she will still be BPD and that is like a constant dripping faucet of uneasiness in my life.

You can't really "cure" BPD. Even if our BPD loved ones (diagnosed or not) get help and address the problem, they will still struggle with it, as will we. What the tools can do is make things easier and improve our relationships. Heck, just learning some things about mindfulness, SET and listening with empathy has made a difference in my relations with others outside my marriage. So, that's a bonus.

But, yes, the BPD is still there. The key is to work on ourselves and our relationships, to build up our own resolve, sense of self, strength, so that the stress and insecurity become easier to manage.

I'm reminded of an old Muppet Show skit with Madeline Kahn. She was trying to be positive, noticing all the wonderful things around her. This big monster came along and kept ruining whatever she was positive about. A sunny day is great? He made it rain. She loves flowers? He stomps on and destroys the flowers in the garden. Eventually, she starts complimenting him on how awful he is and what a wonderful job he does being awful. As she does this, he starts shrinking until he's a wee little thing. In the end, she says, "Sometimes, you have to talk your troubles down to a size where you can handle them."

That said, some people here have decided this is not a path they can or want to walk. And that's OK, too. We're here to help each other decide which path is best for us and then to navigate it in a healthy way.

[strugglingBF]

Thanks Ozzie!  I actually love the muppet story.  That does make a lot of sense.  Amazing where you can find inspiration.  I am posting a ton on her because i probably waited to long to get this kind of support, so I hope I am not annoying any board members.  I have so many thoughts and questions about dealing with this.  My brain has a tendency to swirl from one to the next.  I try to post because I want everyone to benefit from my questions and their responses. 

[Ozzie101]

We all know what it's like to feel the combination of relief and being overwhelmed that comes from finding this site. We've all been there. You should see some of the Tolstoy-esque posts I made last year. (Who am I kidding? I still make them. ) But that's what we're here for -- to seek help and then to help each other in turn. You never know when you may have some real insight for someone else, or when your own problems will strike a chord in another member.

[Rev]

That said, some people here have decided this is not a path they can or want to walk. And that's OK, too. We're here to help each other decide which path is best for us and then to navigate it in a healthy way.

That really is the key, isn't it?  And added on to this is this thought - while it is true that BPD cannot be "cured" so to speak, "healing" can come with acknowledgement. As in any couple, both partners have to be willing to honestly try to pick up what is theirs to pick up.  And where there is love and forgiveness, each partner accepts the imperfections of the other and realizes what is realistic.   That being said, if one partner is really not interested in facing themselves at all - then I am not certain that there is any hope.  In fact, given that kind of atmosphere, the person "who stays to work on it hoping the other will come around" is at risk of psychological harm.  I really believe that it takes counselling to understand how to put these tools to proper use, because each person's context is different.

I am so thankful for this site - and made a donation to it as well. It has brought so much clarity to the hurt I am feeling, in the sense that it has been hard to identify where the hurt was coming from.

Have a great day everyone!

Rev