Co dependency myself.

[townhouse]

I am trying to put together a post about codependency.

I have been a member here for a few years and have had my ‘ups and downs’ to put it mildly, with my Ubpdh. I have taken note of the lessons provided here and have had a lot of success within our relationship. These lessons felt inline with how I am. For example, not to JADE is sort of how I interact with most people.

I am, I guess, what some would call codependent or an enabler, but how loaded with negativity are those two words.  I sometimes feel my ‘kind’ disposition towards others, including my ubpdh, is now thought to be a negative attribute of my personality. I only know about these words because I have read widely both here, other books and articles and these words are attempting to colour how I feel about myself.

Apart from the times my ubpdh has his dysregulations and as you all know they are horrible...I am happy within myself and within our relationship. To attempt to explain it here or to others, it would appear as though I am an enabler and not sticking up for myself or doing enough for myself but this is not true. It seems that way to people who are different to me. Also, I do have boundaries but perhaps more flexible than what seems to be the norm.

The 20 years my husband and I have been together have seen plenty of personal growth for the both of us. Through the often painful cloak of BPD each has achieved more. Neither one could have done it without the other.

I would love to hear your thoughts about this topic.

[Ozzie101]

Interesting topic, townhouse.

Like you, I never really thought about being codependent until I started learning more about BPD and started learning things here. But, I do see signs of it in myself. My emotions are/were way too tied to my uBPDh's. I was constantly trying to please him, to clear the road to make things easier for him, hiding my own pain and feelings from him, going along with his wishes and wants and ignoring my own.

These are things I'm working on, with some success. For instance, I no longer get as panicky when afraid my H will get upset. Some anxiety, yes, but not the full-on physical panic. When he starts ranting about cutting off a friend over what seems to be a minor issue, I just let him rant, rather than frantically try to dissuade him. I think that's progress.

I'm a caretaker by nature. I was always taught it's good to put others before yourself. So where I struggle is knowing when something is taking care of me and having a healthy relationship and when it crosses the line into truly selfish. Where is the line? Sometimes I don't know.

[Cat Familiar]

I was trained by my upbringing to be overly concerned with other people's feelings. I felt that I could take care of my own feelings, but it was extremely painful to think I'd hurt someone else's feelings. So I would do everything I could to try to make things right, if I felt that I had. Definition of obsequious: obedient or attentive to a servile degree. That was me.

Rather than make things better, this behavioral pattern of mine actually made things worse with pwBPD and I felt even smaller and more devalued.

How did I change this lifelong entrenched pattern?

My horses taught me to be different. Horses pay a lot of attention to our body language, so if we present as small, fearful, unsure of ourselves, they notice. And they take advantage of us--not to be mean, but because we obviously don't know what we're doing and they realize they must take charge.

I learned to stand tall, be self-assured, and be clear in my requests.

Horses are also in the moment. And by not holding onto the past, they are forgiving.

I realized that I often carried past into future. So if something scary happened with one of my horses, I learned to let it go and attend to the immediate moment and be present. That way I didn't engrain it into a pattern for either of us.

The same skill works with pwBPD. They can have a dysregulation and then a few minutes later, they can be fine. Meanwhile, our hearts may be racing and our anxiety level can be through the roof, and darn it, we want an explanation! As we all know, that just makes things worse.

Best to give them space when they're upset, promise to check in a short time later, and use that time alone to reset our own baseline of being centered and calm.

[Panda39]

Good book on co-dependence to check out... Codependent No More by Melody Beattie

I'm on these boards because of my Partner's uBPDxw, but I myself was married to an alcoholic for 20 years and very co-dependent.  I was aware of my financial co-dependence the primary reason I stayed married to my husband waaaay too long, but it wasn't until later I realized I was co-dependent in other ways.

I have issues with self-esteem and for a very long time I got a boost in self-esteem by being with my ex.  I got to be the "good" sober person, I got to be the "responsible" parent, I got to be the self sacrificing martyr... I got to feel good about myself at my alcoholic husband's expense.  I got to feel good about myself in the dysfunction of our marriage.

Panda39

[sweetheart]

townhouse what does your ‘codependency’ look like in your relationship?

What aspects, if any, would you want help to change?

[stolencrumbs]

I think I'm with you, townhouse. A lot of things I read about codependency just don't resonate with me at all, or jibe with who I think I am, even though there are clearly aspects of it in my relationship with my wife. (It's also not helpful that it has no fixed meaning or criteria.)

Have you read Fjelstad's "Stop caretaking the borderline or narcissist"? She makes a useful distinction between a caretaker and a codependent. In her view, codependency is a more pervasive aspect of a person's personality, while the caretaker might only have issues in one relationship. This resonated with me more. I don't have the kind of problems I have with my wife in any other relationship I've ever had. I've had healthy romantic relationships in the past, I have healthy friendships, healthy work relationships, and a healthy relationship with my family. I'm fine with my boundaries with others, I don't need approval from others for my self-esteem, etc. I am a caretaker in precisely one relationship in my life--with my wife. That's not good, and it's definitely something I am working on. But it helped me to see it as a problem with one relationship and not a pervasive problem or some underlying way of interacting with the world and with others that needs to change. I like how I am. I like the aspects of my personality that led me to being a caretaker with my wife. I don't like how that turned out, but I think it's possible to work on that inside the problem relationship without seeing it as a more widespread problem.

 

[sweetheart]

You make a insightful distinction stolencrumbs, I too had/have no other relationships/friendships like the one I have with my husband.

I saw myself as a carer to him, never as co-dependent, my happiness and emotional well-being were never dependent on him. Although I was often very sad and unhappy as a result of things that happened between us, and how the trajectory of his illness and lack of insight made staying together impossible.

The book you mention was an a-ha read for me, helping me realise that he wasn’t going to ‘get better’ and that no matter how kind, compassionate, helpful, supportive I was would ever make any difference.

In my life I am a kind, compassionate, caring person. I’m calm and collected, loyal and helpful. I like those qualities in me, so do my friends, and for the most part so did my previous partners, none of whom had a mental illness.

It is important to know you can be in a relationship with a pwBPD and not automatically be pathologically codependent.

[townhouse]

Thank you so much for all those replies. So interesting to read how you all deal with the topic and for the most part inline with how I am feeling.

I will write a full response a little later when time allows. I  believe I am on the opposite side of the world  to most of you and it’s very early morning. I’ll be back .

[townhouse]

Thanks to both Panda39 and  Stolen crumbs for the titles of those books. I can’t wait to track them down and read.
Ozzie101, I’m glad you are having success trying to over come feelings of panic when H is likely to get upset. Sometimes I can and sometimes I get dragged in. Hi CatFamiliar, I think you are very astute to have taken the lessons from your horses and apply them to life with a bpdh.

I do see what you mean Stolencrumbs that you only have a problem with the one person in your life. I guess this is the same for me as well as I get on fine with other people.

The following is someway to answering your questions Sweetheart.

I start to wonder if my enabling is perhaps unhealthy as when ubpdh starts ranting at me, he will bring up that I must stop being a ‘doormat’ to my 3 sons. I don’t think I am and I’m sure they would say the same thing. I’m their Mum, they are in 30’s and 40’s. They are all happy, successful and in good relationships.

My H can’t stand them and will, particularly in times of stress use the smallest excuse to find he has been slighted by one or all of them, which then leads to a full blown dysreg with threats of leaving me.  I am actually grateful that it seems I am no longer the one who triggers a dysreg but it is very hard to listen to him paying out on my sons. He chooses them because they are actually the only other people he sees as he has been gradually withdrawing from contact with everyone else. He has cut himself off from his family of two daughters and his two brothers , plus any friends, for years now. Yes we watch a lot of TV, movies, listen to music, read and have interest in politics.

This brings me to one of the boundaries that I am strict about... that my boys and their partners/grandson are welcome in our home. If he doesn’t want to see them, then he can remove himself during their visit. I say this nicely... to have any success at continuing a BPD relationship, we must become experts in saying things in a non confronting way.

I am compliant to his wishes and don’t invite other people over. I do of course visit my friends and for the most part they have accepted that this is my life, although I do know they think I should do differently. But I don’t, I understand and respect he wants to live as anxiety free as possible and so I try to ‘enable’ him.

[townhouse]

On reflection my main concern in a nutshell about co dependency is in the area of feeling so devastated when H dysregs and says he wants to leave, divorce and that he would be more happy on his own. Isn’t it normal to feel heartbroken at the thought of losing a loved one?

He did make me leave our home about 8 years ago but reconciled with me after 6 months. Since then, his mood has always changed in a few days or a week and he is again content to be in relationship with me. How does one get used to the thought of not living with the person one loves?

[sweetheart]

Keeping your boundaries intact, maintaining a life away from your relationship, ensuring that you have support when you need it are all important in keeping ourselves emotionally healthy in relationships such as the ones on these boards.

I remember for many years my husband would threaten to leave, and physically leave for a few days at a time and I would be devastated every single time. And yes that felt like a normal response to someone I loved leaving me or threatening to leave.

What brought me here was the realisation that my husband’s ongoing threats to leave me weren’t part of a normal healthy adult relationship. It was a symptom of a dysfunctional marriage, and arose out of my husband being mentally ill. Or in the absence of a clearcut diagnosis this type of dynamic is still not a healthy one.

What changed is that my response to his threats to leave. I wanted to find a way to protect myself emotionally from his behaviour. Over time I accepted that one, this behaviour was a part of his personality and two, that I couldn’t stop him leaving if he really wanted to no matter how much anguish I felt or how hard I cried.

What I had to decide was whether I wanted to stay and manage my response to his threats better (better for me) or leave because I didn’t want to be in a relationship where I was continually trying to navigate this type of behaviour (plus a lot more besides!)

I found Radical Acceptance immensely helpful in my search for support. It somewhat dramatically changed the course of my life, not just my marriage. I am not the same woman that started posting many years ago.

My husband is still in my life, but we live separately, because leaving together proved impossible.

Here is some reading on RA,
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=89910.0

[formflier]

Townhouse,

Thanks so much for this insightful thread.  I've skimmed it a time or two.  Today have been able to dive in.

 Below rings true for me.

Apart from the times my ubpdh has his dysregulations and as you all know they are horrible...I am happy within myself and within our relationship. To attempt to explain it here or to others, it would appear as though I am an enabler and not sticking up for myself or doing enough for myself but this is not true. It seems that way to people who are different to me. Also, I do have boundaries but perhaps more flexible than what seems to be the norm.

The way I say it to myself, others (when appropriate) and my P is "I really enjoy my marriage.  From time to time it's not enjoyable.  When that happens I go do something else to care for myself."

I'm fully onboard with the "truth" that when a  dysregulation comes along, feeding it less helps it blow through quicker.

I'm also fully onboard with me having little to no role in "fixing" or "causing" whatever goes on.

I do sometimes hang around on the periphery if something could go sideways and affect kids.  In the past year I think I've stepped in and stopped something once (maybe twice)  I only intervene when needed and I make sure I go to the mat and "win" (regardless of threats and blowback).

For instance, I no longer get as panicky when afraid my H will get upset.

I have to be deliberate now to not act like I don't care (which can be invalidating).  I try to validate and show interest, but frankly my attitude is "I've seen this show and it will end soon."

Likely something for me to pay even further attention to.

My horses taught me to be different. 

Horses and farm life in general have helped me with a "frame of reference".   In a recent talk with a child about the fun of having baby goats (and really baby anything on a farm), we both agreed that's a wonderful time...except.

1.  they can take a lot of care
2.  Sometimes lots of sadness when an an, animal doesn't make it and passes away

But you take the good with the bad and move on.

Last for now.

I'm likely in the "caretaking" wing of things since that's a very close cousin to "providing for your family".
I was definitely raised to and praised for "providing".

Good thread.  Keep it up

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

I have to be deliberate now to not act like I don't care (which can be invalidating).  I try to validate and show interest, but frankly my attitude is "I've seen this show and it will end soon."

Something I'm still working on, big time. If I act too cool and detached, H accuses me of not caring. Often, I do care. I'm just trying not to get sucked in since, like you, I've seen this episode before. Yet I'm a natural "balancer." Normally, the more one person gets worked up, the more calm I become.

I'm also a natural devil's advocate (I probably would have made a good lawyer -- can always see and understand both sides). But I've become pretty good about stopping that before it comes out of my mouth. Again, invalidating.

[formflier]

Something I'm still working on, big time. 

Maybe in a day or two I'll start a thread on how to navigate these tricky waters of not getting drawn in, yet not blowing them off.

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

That would be really helpful, FF, for me and I'm sure for others!

[Cat Familiar]

I’m starting that thread: How to not get drawn in, yet not blow them off.

  Good idea! Let’s all jump in!

[formflier]

YAAAY!  I'll be there soon

Best,

FF