Could My Brother Have A Mild Form Of A Cluster B Disorder

[TelHill]

Hello,

Many of you with a bpd parents have sometimes had strained relationships with siblings. It's understandable considering who raised us.

I am at a loss for words right now. My bpd mom and enabler dad seem calmer thanks to all the tips and suggestions I've followed. Yay!

The issue is my brother. I'm feeling afraid of him. That's what's making it hard to collect my thoughts.

My enabler dad talked to my brother to suggest steps to help them -- driving him to the dmv, asking for yardwork help and making it known my parents cannot accommodate cooking Xmas dinner.

My brothr agreed but did a passive aggressive 180. My brother is off work for two weeks and is staying in town. I discovered all of these items after the fact.

1) My brother gave dad a 3 hour window for the dmv and it had to be yesterday. They went in the pm - the busiest time. My 90+ dad stood in line for two hours. 

2)The roof gutter was clogged and there were many leaves and light branches on the roof as of a few days ago. My dad said my brother would clear it. There was a lot of racket this morningand I saw a ladder outside the window. I was yelling at him to get down from the roof. I have a terrible fear of heights. I climbed a few rungs and got scared. I asked him why my brother wasn't doing this. He wouldn't answer. He looked mad but he cleared everything. I was horrified.

3) Last week my dad told my brother he and my mom are too tired to make a dinner. He agreed. My niece, her bf and my brother would stop by for an hour to visit. He was going to a friend's house.  Yesterday morning, my parents were going grocery shopping on their own. I asked them why. I drove them over the weekend. I offered to drive them and my dad said no. They came home with a lot of groceries. I asked them why did you do this a few times.  My dad finally told me. My brother changed his mind on Sunday. He told my parents he will be coming for dinner and told gave them ideas on what to cook.

TBH, I am shocked by my brother's behavior.  Not sure what else to write. Do you think he might have some disorder?  He's begged off work before, but it's never one thing right after the other. Rat-a-tat-tat.  I plan to do LC tomorrow with my brother. I won't say much and will answer direct questions generally. I'll be doing gray rock. It's not worth getting involved with this.

I hope this all makes sense.  Thank you. 

[TelHill]

An addendum - I found this older website describing bpd. It sounds like my brother though of course I cannot dx. My mom cannot function in the workplace at all. My brother can but his workplace is highly structured.

https://web.stanford.edu/~corelli/borderline.html

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi TelHil,

Thank you for sharing your post and thoughts with us. We cannot diagnos your brother of course, but it is not at all uncommon to see behaviours that cause concern when there have been dysfunctions surrounding us and influencing us.

One thing I noted is that your parents sound like they did a good thing by establising boundaries. Is it possible that they may have done what so many of us have done as we attempt to learn about them and set them, that is, did they set the boundaries for your brother and expect him to follow them? Or do you think they set them to keep themselves safe emotionally and physically? Do you see the difference?

It takes a lot of practice and steps forward and two back to get the hang of boundaries, but they are well worth it.

 
Wools

[GaGrl]

I may have asked before...what is your parents' financial situation re: being able to afford help in their current housing situation? Are they ready for assisted living?I

Your brother's behavior is concerning!

[TelHill]

Hi Wools, I understand the distinction. My dad was the one to set them. My brother is my dBPD mom's golden child. She lets him have free range.

Hi GaGrl, My parents do not want to go. I have tried until I am blue in the face.  They are legally competent. I have no say.

My mom's strong BPD tendencies made me put the focus on her throughout my life.  I am very grateful to the techniques I have learned on this site to quiet my own mind when she acts out. 

I've chalked up my brother's quirks - ridiculing me, not wishing to be close to me, never giving help to me but expecting it of me, one-upmanship to feeling entitled (sexism) and problems of being the golden child. I've never spent much time with him either due to geography and our separate lives. This has changed since being pt caregiver to our parents. I am only 10 miles away while here. I have a bird's eye view that I didn't have before.

GaGrl, I am very concerned about his cruel behavior. Mom not taking center stage in my mind and reading sibling bpd stories on this board has changed my focus. I'm still piecing things together in my mind about the past. However, the body knows before the mind. My brother comes for Sunday dinner. I never did until I became a widow.

On Mondays after dinner with my FOO, I feel awful. I was so down I could not get out of bed the whole day.  I thought it was residual Monday morning blues from my time at work and being near mom.  I think it's also fear of my brother. 

He, his daughter and her bf are coming here in a few hours. I need to detach from everything bpd. I will be quiet and not divulge any information about me while they are here.  I think this is a great boundary. Something is not right with my brother, and I don't want to be in the line of fire with him any longer. I have a lot to think about.

Thanks all of you for your support. I hope you have a wonderful day. 

[TelHill]

I was so nervous yesterday & believe I didn't answer properly.

One thing I noted is that your parents sound like they did a good thing by establising boundaries. Is it possible that they may have done what so many of us have done as we attempt to learn about them and set them, that is, did they set the boundaries for your brother and expect him to follow them? Or do you think they set them to keep themselves safe emotionally and physically? Do you see the difference?
It takes a lot of practice and steps forward and two back to get the hang of boundaries, but they are well worth it.
 
Wools

Wools,

It is the latter - they are keeping themselves safe emotionally and physically from my brother. My brother wants to be free of any responsibilities of care giving for our elderly parents by any means possible - lying, manipulating, goading, acting passive aggressively.

He has been really angry when I called him to help my dBPD mom and enabler dad to go to ER for life-threatening injuries.  They will only go when the two of us take them. Ugh.

I insisted he install a grab bar in the shower for mom. (She broke her hip in 2018 and is prone to falling.) I'm handy but my dad and I don't have the strength/finesse to do this.

My brother did try six months after I first asked. He had a stud finder and claimed there weren't any framing studs underneath the tile. I said the bathroom wall would have collapsed without them long ago. I left to buy a stud finder that worked. I bought one and came home. He went home shortly after I left for the store. He had drilled a few holes into the tile in my absence. I was shocked. He ruined the tiles on purpose. I helped my dad put silicone on the holes to prevent mold.

It's almost as if he wants to hasten their death by inaction. I've read about psychopathic behavior. It believe he is exhibiting a form of it. I could be wrong. It's horrible behavior whatever the problem is.

What's ironic/scary is he has a master's in Theology (he wanted to be a clergymember) and a master's in Counseling Psychology.  Thx again Wools!  

I may have asked before...what is your parents' financial situation re: being able to afford help in their current housing situation? Are they ready for assisted living?I

Your brother's behavior is concerning!

My parents can afford some home care. They would have to sell their house for AL. They made it clear they want to die here.

Thanks for asking, GaGrl.  I know you are wanting me to have a break from care giving, from my FOO, and to get on with my life.   I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. They are getting older and more frail.  One woman cannot handle two elderly people. It's a daily challenge to be near my bpd mom. The solution to all these issues is to go NC with my FOO. It's one abusive problem after another. I feel like a walking target being here.  I live a happier and saner life by myself.

If you, or anyone else, has any ideas about this, I'm happy to hear them. I don't need an inheritance. I don't want my parents to die an unnecessary death either. My conscience would bother me forever.

The brother was here yesterday with his daughter and bf for dinner.  He was goading me a lot - an extinction burst - but I kept my newish boundary of not giving information about my life. I'm not bothered by his statements when I don't challenge or show anger. That's extremely helpful.

[GaGrl]

I sure would like to see you get a break!

Is your father s U.S. Veteran? There is a program that would pay about $1400/month for home care for veterans and their spouses. That could help cover personal care, light housekeeping and cooking, and driving to medical appointments.

My 93 year old mom who has a few BPD traits, is for the most part in a manageable situation by living with us. she is realistic about her physical condition, and her cognition is fine. That said, my husband and I have extremely different life styles from what here has been. The constrictions have been irritating at times. I can't imagine trying to take care of two elderly parents who aren't cooperative.

[TelHill]

Thanks, GaGrl. I really appreciate your response! 

My dad is not a veteran, unfortunately. That's a great suggestion for others though.

I'm going to have to think about this a lot. There are many things that could be done. I'm not willing to be a care giver in this situation. I need to clear the FOG from my head. 

[Methuen]

Hi Telhill,

I am sorry you are going through this.  It is enough to have to deal with your BPD mother, but having your brother go off the rails like this just adds a whole other complicated and super stressful layer.

I have a couple of thoughts:
1) In looking for the positive, am I right in understanding that in under two weeks your brother will be leaving town?  Does he live "far" away?  What I'm hoping is that this extra layer of stress has a limited duration...maybe of less than two weeks?  I hope I'm not wrong in thinking that...

2)  It sounds like your brother doesn't grasp the scope of the issues and limitations with his aging parents.  Could this be a reason for his 180 behavior (especially if he doesn't live as close to them as you do)?  Maybe he just doesn't "get it", or chooses not to "get it" (head in the sand syndrome)?  Or do you think it's more purposeful?

3) Do you think/feel like he is behaving like this because he is putting his own interests first?  

4) Your dad put up boundaries:

Last week my dad told my brother he and my mom are too tired to make a dinner. He agreed. My niece, her bf and my brother would stop by for an hour to visit. He was going to a friend's house.

OK...but then broke his own boundaries, by going and getting groceries and putting on the dinner.  Is it possible to coach your dad on keeping boundaries, rather than expecting your brother not to push them?

5) Sunday dinners.

On Mondays after dinner with my FOO, I feel awful. I was so down I could not get out of bed the whole day.  I thought it was residual Monday morning blues from my time at work and being near mom.  I think it's also fear of my brother.

I'm not sure if I understand this accurately, but it sounds like you feel you are obligated to share a weekly Sunday dinner with your parents and this is taking a toll.

It's probably different, but a couple of years ago, my mom decided to "tell us" she was going to cook a dinner for us every Friday, so we could come after work to have dinner with her and not have to cook.  Well it sounded like a good idea at the time so we went along with it, but every Friday when we arrived after work we ended up cooking the dinner for the 3 of us, and then listening to her prattle on about herself for hours.  After about two months of this, when we saw the pattern and realized it would not change, we decided it was easier for us to go home and make our own nachos on Friday nights and crash on the couch after the weekly grind.  So we found a way to ease out of the weekly dinner obligation over time.  Ultimately, we have to also look after ourselves, and stop feeling like we need to be martyr's for our parents.  We have needs to, and we deserve to look after our own needs as well as theirs.

On Mondays after dinner with my FOO, I feel awful. I was so down I could not get out of bed the whole day.  I thought it was residual Monday morning blues from my time at work and being near mom.

 

This doesn't sound healthy.  Maybe it's time to change things up?

ASIDE to WOOLS:

One thing I noted is that your parents sound like they did a good thing by establising boundaries. Is it possible that they may have done what so many of us have done as we attempt to learn about them and set them, that is, did they set the boundaries for your brother and expect him to follow them? Or do you think they set them to keep themselves safe emotionally and physically? Do you see the difference?

I'm not getting the drift in the above.  How can they keep themselves safe emotionally and physically if they don't stick to their own boundaries?  I think I am missing some important point to your question, and would like to learn more.  I don't get it...I'm probably being a bit thick here

6)  

My parents can afford some home care. They would have to sell their house for AL. They made it clear they want to die here.

Uh oh.  I get that many people choose to die at home.  That is totally understandable.  Who wouldn't choose that?  But in life, generally speaking, we can't always have what we want.  Does their choice to die at home, obligate you to care for them, and be subjected to any abuses by your BPD mom?

My experience is that my 83 year old very frail mom with BPD and multiple complicated physical diagnosis (heart, tremors, repeated falls and fractures, high blood pressure, anxiety, depression, past hip(both)/knee/back surgeries, osteoporosis, and probably vascular dementia amongst about a dozen other things) has chosen to decline assisted living which she qualifies for already.  I learned the hard way this past autumn that I am not equipped to care for my mom full time for a lot of reasons, including that I don't have diagnostic and nursing treatment skills.  It helps me to know that her family doctor is also challenged by all her complicated problems.  I have been told by several health professionals that it will probably take a "crisis" (eg breaking her hip and not having it heal) before she goes into assisted living.  By refusing assisted living, I suspect my mom feels like she can retain more control in her life, which happens to include controlling me by "making me care for her".  Except that in the last 5-6 months I have woken up to what it means to be the daughter of a BPD mother, and continue to do a lot of work to figure out how to navigate a difficult situation.  While I continue to support her, I am now setting boundaries, and am learning and using new skills to interact with a BPD person.  

I hope your situation with your parents choosing to die at home is not costing you your sense of well-being.  I'm not suggesting that is what is happening, but just hoping that it's not (based on my experience with my mom).

7)  

What's ironic/scary is he has a master's in Theology (he wanted to be a clergymember) and a master's in Counseling Psychology.

This is curious, and maybe another un-oh?  Generally speaking, one would think of theologians and counselling types as having "people skills", such as caring and helping skills.  However, your description of your brother sounds much more detached and uninterested in caring/helping.  I was once told by people within the industry that social workers and counselling types are of two varieties: one being the genuine desire to help others, and the second being the group that goes into the field because of their own problems...  Or, on the other hand, is it possible that he's not functioning in the family dynamic because he has his own issues going on? 

After putting all these thoughts down on paper, I am wondering if trying to JADE with your brother may be counterproductive and not a good use of your energy?  

And since your mom has BPD, that leaves you the option of working with your dad.  Is he the "key"?  Do you know what made him break his own boundary with your brother and buy all those groceries to cook the dinner for your brother?

Last thought...I think you deserve some quality self-care after all this.  What do you think?  

That was a lot of thoughts.  Probably way too many.  I apologise for this if it was.  I didn't start off this reply with that intention.  I thought I would fire off a quick reply of support, but the more times I re-read this thread, the more thoughts came to me, because I started to appreciate the depth of the struggle.

You have a lot going on at the moment Telhill.  I really don't know what to say or how to help.

 

[TelHill]

Hi Methuen,

Thanks for your thoughtful and thorough answer.  I'm under stress and my writing has not been clear in some places in my above posts.  

My brother lives 10 miles away from my parents. My place is 40 miles away from my parents. My home is 50 miles away from my brother's place.

Bro is a high school teacher (He's had the same employer for the last 35 years; has not worked elsewhere after earning his degrees). Bro has two weeks off from work due to Xmas school break. He is not traveling anywhere for the holidays. He's divorced with an adult daughter. His daughter lives in our area with her bf.

My brother is six years older than me.  We never spent much time together when I was a kid due to our age difference. He left home when I was 8 to attend a boarding high school.  I left home at 18 to attend college far away to escape our bpd mom.

I didn't know my brother well until I moved in pt to help my elderly parents after my husband passed away two years ago.  My bro meets the criteria for a cluster B disorder.  That makes two in my FOO of four.

Bro and my mom treat me as the scapegoat. His daughter is the golden child to him and my mom.

My niece has serious issues. She's an alcoholic. My father is very concerned; my mom thinks everything my niece & brother does is perfect.

She was arrested in college (age 21 - an adult) for drunk/disorderly conduct, resisting arrest and striking an officer. She failed to attend the first day of her trial. She was arrested for contempt (I think it's called that when you don't show up) and spent time in jail.  She was expelled from her sorority for this.  There's a lot more but that's the gist of it. My brother spent a small fortune cleaning up her record.

I am sorry for their problems, but bro/niece put me down without pause.

I don't know why she is doing this too. She may still be drinking or be a dry drunk. I did nothing to my niece. I've treated her with respect. Her behavior is unusual. She has treated me like this since she graduated from college. I've asked her why. She says nothing is wrong.

The only solution is to return to my own home and be LC with my parents. I plan to go NC with my brother and his daughter.  The latter two will find another scapegoat or straighten themselves out. I may be the scapegoat in absentia. Who knows?

I hope this makes sense now.  It's sometimes tough to put my finger on the true issues. I now have an intellectual and emotional handle on why I'm so upset.  

[Methuen]

  Telhill

Oh wow. I don't know your history Telhill, so I regret I was out in left field with quite a lot in my first reply for lack of understanding.  I'm really sorry about that.

The solution to all these issues is to go NC with my FOO. It's one abusive problem after another. I feel like a walking target being here.  I live a happier and saner life by myself.

It sounds like you have figured something out here!  You are working your way through the current quagmire to find a path forward.  Independence from negative influences sounds like a really good way to find some calm, and do some healing.  Find your own space, and time, and safety...including emotional safety.

I think the situations with our parents are different. But since we both have elderly parents, and are caregivers, and have a BPD parent, I think it's possible there could be  something in common for us.  What I am slowly accepting is that I can't change my mom, I can't save her, I can't take responsibility for her decisions, and I can't make decisions for her, even when they are in her best interest.  She is an adult at 83, and even though I see all the risks, I have to let her live her life as she chooses, even if I am afraid of her choices, or don't agree with them.  It sounds like your parents have made choices as well, including that they want to die at home.  So with that, it is also within their capabilities to manage the home they have and use  supports which will allow them to stay in their home, so you can carry on with your autonomous life.  As a daughter, I am learning to do what I can to support my mom in her own home, and not pressure myself to do all of what she tries to make me feel is my obligation to do for her.  I'm not sure if you can relate to any of this, or maybe it's just not helpful or relevant to your situation. But I brought it up because reading between the lines, it sounds like you are taking on a lot to try to assist your parents, including sometimes taking on what your brother says he will do but then doesn't, and maybe you are burning out a bit with both your mom and brother having dysfunction, your dad being elderly and enmeshed with your mom, and a niece that's also dysfunctional?  Holy that's a lot.  Must you take responsibility for all that?  

Would it be possible to prioritize the problems that you feel you can make a difference with, and chip away at them 1 at a time for a limited time each day, so that you can also find some time for yourself to also live your own life?

I'm wondering if you have had time recently for positive influences in your life?  Friends, hobbies, activity, work or volunteerism?  Anything outside of family that can bring you joy?

 

It's sometimes tough to put my finger on the true issues. I now have an intellectual and emotional handle on why I'm so upset.

This is a huge relief to hear.

Keep us posted on how you are doing Telhill. 

 

[TelHill]

Telhill

Oh wow. I don't know your history Telhill, so I regret I was out in left field with quite a lot in my first reply for lack of understanding.  I'm really sorry about that.

Methuen, nothing to be sorry about!  I had a lot going on and not writing as cleanly as I should.

It sounds like you have figured something out here!  You are working your way through the current quagmire to find a path forward.  Independence from negative influences sounds like a really good way to find some calm, and do some healing.  Find your own space, and time, and safety...including emotional safety.

Yes, thank you. I was doing fine (NC/LVC) until my husband died 2.5 years ago and my parents health falling apart within months of one another. Looking back, my mom was telling fibs about my brother (poor health and extremely heavy workload) to recruit me as live-in help. Poor bro couldn't help at all.    My brother and mom took advantage of my deep grief and unclear thinking.

As a daughter, I am learning to do what I can to support my mom in her own home, and not pressure myself to do all of what she tries to make me feel is my obligation to do for her.  I'm not sure if you can relate to any of this, or maybe it's just not helpful or relevant to your situation. But I brought it up because reading between the lines, it sounds like you are taking on a lot to try to assist your parents, including sometimes taking on what your brother says he will do but then doesn't, and maybe you are burning out a bit with both your mom and brother having dysfunction, your dad being elderly and enmeshed with your mom, and a niece that's also dysfunctional?  Holy that's a lot.  Must you take responsibility for all that?  

Would it be possible to prioritize the problems that you feel you can make a difference with, and chip away at them 1 at a time for a limited time each day, so that you can also find some time for yourself to also live your own life?

I'm wondering if you have had time recently for positive influences in your life?  Friends, hobbies, activity, work or volunteerism?  Anything outside of family that can bring you joy?

Thanks for this, Methuen. It's what I need to hear. I'm making adjustments to the caregiving schedule after my mom's MRI next week.  I need positive influences in my life; I have none now.

People do ask for a lot sometimes, and it's up to me to say no.  My parents have other ways to get their needs met. They are adults. There are paid care givers, my brother, my niece, etc. 

Thanks for the clarity and the common sense!