Having too much empathy for a disordered parent

[Vanilla Sky]

Hi everyone.

This holiday has been hard to cope for many of us. I am glad we have each other here  

What should have been a quick visit from my father on Saturday to wish us merry Christmas turned into a 2 hours conversation with him saying how I should do the "right thing" this Christmas, to come by their house and give my mother a hug. That my uNPD/uBPD mother is "getting worse", isolating and not speaking to anyone, that she has been talking to herself and cleaning the house night and day. He cried when saying how sorry he is for her, and it broke my heart to see that. I defended and justified myself for 2 hours. I told him that if she is missing her daughter she can call me, she is the one that cut me off and all I am doing is to move on with my life. "She won't do that, you know. And I think you should...".
It was such a mistake to have that conversation, it did no good for anyone and we all left worse than before. That conversation got me overwhelmed and is taking more time to shake the afterward feelings off. I shouldn't have exposed myself to that especially around holidays that already make me more vulnerable. If there is a silver lining it is that I learned I absolutely will not expose myself to that anymore. I have been LC with my father because of all the FOG but I've let my guard down this time. Won't happen anymore.

Not only because of that conversation, but it was hard to enjoy Christmas with my husband and in-laws as I kept thinking of my mother. I do not miss her, I know I am not responsible for her choices, I know she was alone because she pushes people away, I know she won't change. But still, I was so sorry for her spending Christmas alone. I am a very empathetic person or a "big heart" as my friends describe me and it doesn't help me to feel that much when it comes to my mother. I feel her pain emotionally and physically. How to protect me from that? What is the inner work needed to get there?

Thank you.

[zachira]

You are asking some good questions and expressing some concerns that many of us have that deal with a disordered parent and family members that enable the disordered parent's behaviors. My heart hurts hearing how your Christmas went. You had the best of intentions and things did not turn out the way you expected.I believe you are asking how to not get so upset by how your parents behave and how to get to the point that what they do doesn't overwhelm you so much in the future. First of all, it is normal to want to have a loving relationship with our parents and in my experience that wish never quite dies even though we can become pretty adept at not being so overwhelmed either in intensity or length of time by the latest incidence. I would say keep setting healthy boundaries like you are doing now while working on not being so emotionally affected by the responses to the boundaries you are setting. You will get there. It is just so painful when you are the one making all the effort to improve the relationship with your parents while your parents respond in ways that are hurtful and unpredictable. Keep us posted on how you are doing.

[TelHill]

This holiday has been hard to cope for many of us. I am glad we have each other here  

What should have been a quick visit from my father on Saturday to wish us merry Christmas turned into a 2 hours conversation with him saying how I should do the "right thing" this Christmas, to come by their house and give my mother a hug. That my uNPD/uBPD mother is "getting worse", isolating and not speaking to anyone, that she has been talking to herself and cleaning the house night and day. He cried when saying how sorry he is for her, and it broke my heart to see that. I defended and justified myself for 2 hours. I told him that if she is missing her daughter she can call me, she is the one that cut me off and all I am doing is to move on with my life. "She won't do that, you know. And I think you should...".

Thanks and  to you, Vanilla Sky.  The holiday season is tough for a lot of us.

My enabler dad also seems to make me responsible for ending the dysregulation and bpd symptoms of my mom.  I didn't cause it, so I can never stop it.

I am the scapegoat in the family. My other prominent role has  been to be her mom - shore her up and be her cheerleader. My mom has called me mama before. I asked her why once. She didn't realized she called me that. She told me it was because I help her and was kind to her like a mother.

The holiday season and her blood in the brain have caused me to go offtrack with my mental health (feeling very down).  I have to start over with setting boundaries and getting on track.  Best wishes to you!

[Methuen]

Hi VanillaSky

Someone on this board once pointed out to me that it could be helpful to me, to stop feeling my mother's feelings for her.

That was profound for me, because until I read that, I didn't even realize that was what was happening.  It also helped me see that as my childhood caregiver, she had raised me to feel her feelings for her, because it met HER needs.  It's a kind of unhealthy emotional entanglement.  Since then, I've been "working on" not feeling her feelings for her.  It's a process.  But it's been hugely liberating for me  It was as if I had been given permission to stop feeling my mother's feelings for her.

I feel her pain emotionally and physically. How to protect me from that?

When I read this in your post, I wanted to share what had helped me.

My mom has called me mama before. I asked her why once.

My mom does this more frequently than I care to admit.  Just recently, she said to me in a 4 year old voice, "I'm just a little girl, and you are my mommy".  I looked at her and said no you aren't!  You're a fiesty and stubborn little old lady!"  She took the stubborn piece as a complement and laughed and said she was never going to change either.  When I told my husband what she had said, he couldn't believe it.  But that is a blatant example of the emotional training and subterfuge they subject us to.  They train us to become their emotional caretakers.  We change that by setting boundaries.  I have only learned how to do this in the last few months.  I can see I am making progress.  You can too!

it was hard to enjoy Christmas with my husband and in-laws as I kept thinking of my mother. I do not miss her, I know I am not responsible for her choices, I know she was alone because she pushes people away, I know she won't change. But still, I was so sorry for her spending Christmas alone.

It sounds like your dad's talk about your mom and the pressure he put on you really got into your headspace.  She may have put him up to that.  He would be enmeshed with her as well, and probably does what he has to do to survive. Something that has helped me with this kind of stuff is mindfulness and meditation.  When my mind starts going, I go onto my mindfulness app and stay on it until my head is clear and I feel calm again.  It also helps me get back to sleep after waking up in the night thinking of all this nastiness.  For some people faith is their magic bullet.  I would suggest trying different things, until you find the strategy that works for you, so that she doesn't invade your headspace in a way that prevents you from enjoying the important things in life.

[JNChell]

Hi, Vanilla Sky. I imagine that your dad telling you to come over to give your mom a hug was very unsettling and hard to listen to and talk about. It was an unfair request, really. I understand how much it hurt you to hear these requests from your father. For what it’s worth, he most likely doesn’t understand how you feel. He enables your mom. That’s his place. A lot of us here have identified the “place” or r”role” that certain family members were forced to take on. It can be extremely overwhelming.

It bothers you that your mom spent Christmas alone. Understandable. What else could you have done to keep the peace?

The inner work? Depends on what you want to work on. Therapy is highly suggested. This community. Books. Quiet time to sit with your feelings. The inner work is up to you.

[Vanilla Sky]

Hi everyone,

Thank you so much for all the comments. I apologize for not responding sooner.

I would say keep setting healthy boundaries like you are doing now while working on not being so emotionally affected by the responses to the boundaries you are setting. You will get there. It is just so painful when you are the one making all the effort to improve the relationship with your parents while your parents respond in ways that are hurtful and unpredictable. Keep us posted on how you are doing.

Thank you zacharia, it means a lot read someone telling me that I will get there. It's so easy to get hopeless and powerless again after an interaction with them.

[Vanilla Sky]

TelHill

I am the scapegoat in the family. My other prominent role has been to be her mom - shore her up and be her cheerleader.

I am so sorry that you are the scapegoat in your family. It's a heavy burden to be unfairly blamed so others can feel comfortable. I become the scapegoat when I am not being the emotional support (my father actually said these 2 words to describe me) for my mother. Then my brother becomes the golden child. And we rotate in these roles all our lives.

My mom has called me mama before. I asked her why once. She didn't realized she called me that. She told me it was because I help her and was kind to her like a mother.

My mother never called me mama but certainly made me feel like the responsible adult for her. She can be very childlike when she is needy. She rages a lot, like a child indeed.

The holiday season and her blood in the brain have caused me to go offtrack with my mental health (feeling very down).  I have to start over with setting boundaries and getting on track.  Best wishes to you!

I am also trying to get back on track with boundaries. I wish you strength and peace while putting yourself first, always 

[Vanilla Sky]

Hi Methuen,

Someone on this board once pointed out to me that it could be helpful to me, to stop feeling my mother's feelings for her.
That was profound for me, because until I read that, I didn't even realize that was what was happening.  It also helped me see that as my childhood caregiver, she had raised me to feel her feelings for her, because it met HER needs.  It's a kind of unhealthy emotional entanglement.  Since then, I've been "working on" not feeling her feelings for her.  It's a process.  But it's been hugely liberating for me  It was as if I had been given permission to stop feeling my mother's feelings for her.
When I read this in your post, I wanted to share what had helped me.

Thank you so much for this. I have read this before on this board but it was only during these holidays, and after your post, that I think I understand what it means. For me, it goes from worrying about how my mother is feeling (e.g. sad because she is alone on Christmas day) to actually start feeling the same way even though my reality at the moment is different than hers. This is so hardwired on my own self. There is such a strong urge to coordinate and fix things for her despite her choices and behavior, so I can make her "feel good" and THEN, and only then, I can feel good and complete... It's a war inside of me. I am sure this is a learned behavior as my T also pointed out. It also makes me think that this is not just being empathetic with her, it looks like codependency which is not so uncommon among us children of disordered parents. I found an article about Codependency/Codependent relationships on the bpd website and it struck a chord with me.
https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

But that is a blatant example of the emotional training and subterfuge they subject us to.  They train us to become their emotional caretakers.  We change that by setting boundaries.

Again, thank you so much for this . It is eye-opening and gave me some homework to do  
I started reading the book Boundaries from and Henry Cloud and John Townsend, very interesting. Some boundaries have worked well for me but they're mostly related to time and money. Like how much time I can be around them, what conversations are safe, when to pick up calls and when not, I don't ask them for money ever as my mother uses money to control people, I do not disclose personal information, I do not talk about my marriage or friends or in-laws with them, etc. But I haven't really thought about emotional boundaries and protecting my emotional health, which gets me in trouble with all the FOG coming from them.

[Harri]

Hi!   

But I haven't really thought about emotional boundaries and protecting my emotional health, which gets me in trouble with all the FOG coming from them.

I think a lot of times we FOG ourselves.    Protecting our emotional health has a lot to do with differentiation, being an autonomous being, knowing where we begin and end in relation to another person. 

For me, differentiation means understanding my own role on the Drama Triangle and knowing that I can play a part in it just as much as my family did.  It was hard to accept that when I first realized it but once I did, it made it easier for me to disentangle myself from the fear obligation and guilt.  I was able to look at my part in the drama triangle and a lot of my conditioned responses as me busting their boundaries by not letting them self soothe and figure their own issues out before jumping in to rescue and fix for example.  Or getting upset when the other person inevitably lashes out and turns the table  after a rescue by me and then taking on the victim role myself.  And then I would keep trying to defend myself and JADE and actually be who they accused me of being. 

If you haven't already, take a look at this:  The three faces of Victim

[Vanilla Sky]

Hi JNChell, how are you doing? I am glad to see you again 

For what it’s worth, he most likely doesn’t understand how you feel. He enables your mom. That’s his place.

You are right, that is his place and if it wasn't they probably wouldn't be married anymore. It won't change now no matter how much I try to make him understand my reasons.

What else could you have done to keep the peace?

This question goes to the tricky part of my mind that insists to tell me that I can do things to control her feelings. I have work to do here.

[Notwendy]

Vanilla Sky- I can relate to your feelings and your situation. There are countless times my father has expected me to "soothe" my BPD mother. It didn't occur to me that anyone in my family was inclined to consider my feelings- or that I even had the right to think they would.

I know my father loved me, but my mother was similar to an addiction for him. An alcoholic knows that drinking is hurting the family members who love them, but the draw to the addiction is so strong, it eclipses that. My father didn't drink or do drugs but my mother was his focus- her feelings were paramount. I don't know how aware her was of this effect on us, but I think, in the moment, his wish to soothe her feelings took over.

My mother is very good at appearing in distress and yet sometimes she really is. I can't tell the difference. When she's acting hurt, it's tough to see. If she is isn't acting, then it feels so mean to not give in to what she wants but sometimes she is being manipulative. An empathetic person would find it difficult. I understand how my father felt when she is upset. It's really hard to see her in distress- real or not. I have seen her do this to manipulate, and once she gets what she wants, she's fine and acts as if nothing happened.

That said, I am empathetic to her situation. I feel sad for her. She's an elderly widow, on her own. I think we struggle with not having what we think are normal mother- child relationships at different stages.  Of course I would want to have my mother involved in our holiday celebrations, but her behavior would eclipse the whole mood of the holiday. She's extremely difficult to be around, and is manipulative and potentially disruptive. I do include her and visit sometimes but I also need to have boundaries with her. Christmas is one more reminder that things are different than what is typically expected in a family.

[madeline7]

Hi Vanilla Sky,
My Dad was the ultimate enabler, and always blamed me and my siblings for everything that upset my Mom, which was everything. One time he admitted I didn't say anything, then fumbled and said it must have been my body language. I am in a similar situation, where I am feeling very sad that she is alone, and me and my siblings are finally setting boundaries. But I am also very empathetic, and it is quite painful to see what she is going through, being that her worst fears (abandonment) are coming true. So here's the thing: My Mom is narcissistic, my Dad also reinforced that only her needs were important. I am empathetic because I am NOT narcissistic, I deeply care about others. So when I am feeling conflicted, I have to remind myself that I am not like my mother, I am a compassionate individual, capable of caring for others. Sounds like you are a wonderful caring person, it does make this hard for you, but overall, life is better when you are not dysregulated and can have authentic relationships with others.