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Bigchris
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« on: January 05, 2020, 12:20:03 PM »

I used to call myself betterorworse on this forum, years ago. It was a moniker intended to more than imply sarcastic anger at the situation in which I found myself. My anger got me suspended once. I was full of rage and confusion. The short of the version is my wife endured horrific abuse as a child and was raped as an adult. She has a host of comorbidity issues. Diagnosed BPD, PTSD, major depressive disorder, anxiety disorder. I was angry with everyone and everything. When she turned on me and I became the target I was confused and subsequently abused for over 20 years; the abuse continues.

There is seemingly no way out of the despair. This is the only situation of which I know where the abused are expected to “understand” the  abuser. We don’t assume someone who was beaten by an alcoholic father then grows up to beat his wife and children is in any way unaccountable. Instead we say “no excuses”. Before anyone throws at me that they are accountable, understand it doesn’t play out that way. We have had therapists who supposedly specialize in BPD refuse to call what she does abuse. This not only emboldens the perpetrator but marginalizes the abused. There is a tap dance around the truth that is as frustrating as the abuse. So the abuse continues and when I respond in anger I am labeled abusive, by both her and the therapists. When I try to present information supporting that mutual abuse is myth, that it’s in fact reactive and part of the abuser’s control games, I am called unaccountable. Which of course, emboldens the real abuser. I have been told “she can’t process it as abuse”. Then why are we bothering? If the goal isn’t to get her to understand the net  effect of her actions is abuse, then it is pointless. Because she will always be able to justify her actions.

She is a very troubled person. She is at times determined to destroy me. At times distorting my perception of reality to the degree I once required hospitalization. I couldn’t figure out what was real. My life was meaningless according to her. I was a fat, ugly, worthless wimp and loser. And this was reinforced over and over by her and the people she recruited by way of slander and lies. Now I don’t know who she is, who the real person is. Is she the decent person she seems to be at times? Or the monster who is plotting against me even when things are going well? She is both, unfortunately.

If I were to line up every hurtful, vile, deceitful, unfair thing that’s been done to and said about and to me the vast majority of people would be appalled, including those on this board. My therapist has confirmed this is the most extreme thing with which he’s dealt.

I was duped into seeking hospitalization. We have zero intimacy, despite me doing everything suggested to me by therapists. I am lonely beyond words and have sought to fill the void, including an ill advised foray into pornography. So she now has trump cards, threatening to “expose” me to our children.

I have compassion for her. I love her. That has made me vulnerable to the mind games. No one wants to be hated, and I know she hates herself. But she can’t stop, that’s apparent. I have spent tens of thousands of dollars we didn’t always have trying to get her help. And she always ends up in the same place. Then I’m the bad guy for being silly enough to hang in all these years and try to be perfect, failing because it’s impossible and strung up for it. Over and over again.

I get help for me, I’ve done more for her than most would even consider. And we’re still right here. She is still tormenting me, and I am powerless except to walk away. She reads all of the information on how to deal with BPDs, and then mocks any attempt to implement anything.

This site and many others advocate not calling them emotional vampires or other unpalatable names, but when that’s the net effect of their actions, that take is less than useful. So before anyone throws out Eleanor Roosevelt and how no one can make you feel without your consent, please realize abusers are now using that quote to justify their actions. After all, if it’s true I can’t make you feel anything, then it’s on you for being hurt by me. You should be stronger.

There is no amount of fortitude or patience that can beat this. In some circumstances the enemy is too strong. When children and money are involved it’s not always feasible to just walk away. And one professional after another tosses out words like “accountability” and doesn’t really mean it. It’s just a word. With BPD, it’s a meaningless word.

I’m sure there will be many who say I still don’t get it. I promise I get it. “Setting boundaries” is a fancy way of saying stand up for yourself. Some of these people are too disturbed for any of it to work. They will circle around and find a back door before the boundary can be set. Then lay low and plot to find a weak spot somewhere around the perimeter you couldn’t have foreseen. It’s a winless battle. Everyone loses. There’s no hero coming, as much as I've tried.  

When you reach the part where the heartaches come
The hero would be me
But heroes often fail
« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 02:31:22 AM by once removed, Reason: moved from Bettering to Conflicted » Logged
strugglingBF
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2020, 02:13:23 PM »

I could not agree more with this post.  I have posted about similar thoughts in the past on here.  We cut so much slack for this mental sickness that we would not cut for other illnesses that have what is presumed to be more severe consequences (physical harm/abuse, sexual assault, even murder).  It is hard to put a severity on the effects of this illness on the Non because it is majority mental, although my GF has punched me on more than one occasion while drunk. 

We are given a number of tools in dealing with BPs, some of which I have to admit have worked.  However, by living a life that is centered around all these tools in order to co-exist with our partner in a mature, adult, mutually beneficial way...are we not still walking on eggshells the entire time?  Not to mention the toll it takes on you mentally to have to essentially be hyper aware and on your toes all the time.  It is exhausting.  I would equate it to a person who diffuses bombs.  Sure they have the tools necessary to prevent the explosion, but if they had to diffuse one bomb after another after another every day how do you think there stress would wear on them over time?  Sure, you can argue that the stress, and possible consequences, of diffusing a bomb is more intense than dealing with a BPD "episode".  But when you start to realize how BPD episodes effect many of your Non decisions, it can get pretty damn stressful.  I know it does for me.  I get stressed over picking a place to eat dinner with my GF, and when she puts the decision entirely on my shoulders it is worse because she is programmed to disagree with anything that comes out of my mouth.  Trivial?  Yes.  But my GF has affected me to that level. 

I agree with you that "boundaries" are essentially sticking up for ourselves.  I do believe they are important, very important actually.  However, I also agree with you that BPs will find ways around your boundaries and will exploit something else until you set up a boundary over there, and the cycle continues like a cat and mouse game. 

The kinder your heart, the more you will be exploited by them.  Then when you hit your breaking point and explode because you hold so much inside, you are seen as an abuser.  I had this conversation many times with my ex-therapist.  She always told me that there are theories out there where if someone (BP) antagonizes you over and over, baits you over and over, and you end up throwing the first punch (punch doesn't have to be a physical punch, just a metaphor)...that they (the antagonizing BP) has actually thrown the first punch.  I lived with two BPs (my GF and her daughter, who is also textbook narcissist).  I was pushed to a breaking point so many times and did lose my cool on a few occasions.  Cussing and lashing back at both of them.  I wish I would have been able to keep my cool and make my point/stand in a calmer way.  BPs will push you to that point often.  Sometimes tools work, sometimes they don't.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2020, 02:19:27 PM by strugglingBF » Logged
strugglingBF
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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2020, 10:00:42 AM »

I am bumping this post because I think it raises some good discussion that doesn't get enough attention from what I have seen on this board.  Maybe it is a tougher topic in general to discuss, but I would like to hear from others on regarding this post if possible.  Thanks!
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2Loyal2Long
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« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2020, 01:49:48 AM »

Hi BC, welcome back.  I’m new here but am happy to offer what I can.

No trophies are handed out for martyrdom (although I’ve been told several times I deserve a trophy for hanging in so long) but I didn’t exactly feel that was an accomplishment.  I understand where you’re at, I’ve been dealing with this for 16 years (much longer if you add up the years of emotional abuse from my FOO).  I don’t believe you’re a martyr, I’m trying to be lighthearted.  Some think I’m off the charts for hanging in so long.  You’ve got my record beat.

My uBPDh left over two years ago, it’s been a back and forth situation and no one has filed for divorce.  Today marks the start of the fifth week of the silent treatment from him.  Evidently our arguments have a particular script and I hit below the belt this time and am being punished.  I’m not proud of myself but, despite the emotional abuse I’ve received for years, I was still wrong to shame him.  I can say that with all honesty.

Here’s what’s helping me, see if anything resonates with you:

I quit attempting to reach out to him just over seven days ago.  He can’t hurt me (ignore me) if I don’t play the push/pull game.

I’m reaching out to friends, finding healthy distractions.  Okay, I’ve consumed way too much chocolate recently but Walgreens had an after Christmas sale.  What can I say?

I go to Alanon and have hit a few other 12-step meetings to increase my support system and learn how to matter to myself.

I go to church, I pray, I’ve made new friends there.  No one has a perfect marriage, I’m learning a lot.  I even give God the worst of my feelings, I have that kind of relationship with my higher power.  I get real and raw.  It’s better that God hears it than my husband (God has never stonewalled me).

I’ve been working on staying in the moment and not forecasting what will happen down the road.  At this point I don’t know if I’ll ever hear from my husband again.  I’ll still be okay.  And right now I’m enjoying my peace.  No more broken promises and failure to follow through.  My overused and abused buttons are finally getting a rest.  It’s a slice of heaven, really.

What I hear is you’ve both been through a lot.  If others think you’re off for hanging in there, well, you have a few thousand friends here who understand.  A therapist has said this is the worst they’ve ever dealt with?  I’m not surprised.  My husband and I indoctrinated more than a few.  Every single therapist let their mouth hit the floor from the git go.  My husband and I actually enjoyed seeing who was most shocked, we needed a few laughs occasionally.

Soo, what is it that you want?  What are you willing to do to care for yourself?  Living in constant crisis mode is unhealthy (I know personally).  I hear much anger and resentment in your post (understandable) however it won’t move you or her from Point A to Point B.

Are you willing to let go of the feelings that are pulling you down and work on you instead of her?  It doesn’t matter who’s right or wrong, my take is that whomever is the most miserable needs to take the first step towards forgiveness.

Entrenched behavior doesn’t turn around overnight, think of it as a battleship.  They don’t turn on a dime.

When I started living my own life and left my husband to his own devices he sat up and took notice.  He didn’t listen to my words, he watched my actions.  Sadly, he wanted to come home before I was ready and I stopped the good things I was doing in my life and started focusing on him too much.

Now I sit here alone typing out a reply to you.

My heart goes out to you.  Any chance you could start a different dance?  With yourself, then her?

Letting go of my anger is doing a world of good for me.  And I’ve begun praying for my husband again (nice things, I promise).

Looking forward to hearing more from you.
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2Loyal2Long
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« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2020, 02:12:11 AM »

One more thing . . . boundaries?  I’ve learned they’re to keep me in my own yard.  I get to decide what I will or won’t accept.  I have to change first.  Boundaries are for me, not the other person.

For example:  “I’m not going to participate in a loud discussion.  I’m happy to listen when things are calmer.”

Of course that can beg an antagonistic response but as long as I don’t play my part (participate) the other person is left to argue alone.  I can walk away or leave, while letting them know how long I’ll be taking a time out.
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Lloyd Christmaz

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« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2020, 02:55:57 AM »

I have no real way to answer this but you are right. I have not responded to any threads yet because none have hit home like this. I felt this everyday in every way with my abuser.

No one understands this disorder. Not even therapists. I am a therapist and when the topic comes up the absolute lack of knowledge and understanding is astonishing to me. It sounds like your therapist has fallen into your abusers trap and is verifiably enabling you to be further abused.

For me, getting away was the hardest thing I've ever done and it was my mother. So having the added difficulty of children and loss of spouse, I didnt have to consider.

Then when it's over you have to unravel the web of dysfunction that they implanted in your mind, constantly wondering, am I those things they said I was. I constantly question every relationship and have isolated myself in my own home where I know I am safe from future abusers.

I made the decision to leave when I saw her doing to my daughter what she had done to me. I couldn't fathom my child every having to experience this turmoil. Again, easier said than done with the mother of your children.

There are so many anecdotal pieces of advice, tricks, tips, hacks, and I tried them all. They didnt work because the reality is...they are sick and really good at making everyone around them think they're sick, to justify their own dysfunctional behavior.

My heart is with you my friend. I cannot find any words of advice but that know you are not alone and you are not what she tries to make you believe what she is. You sound as if you have a clear understanding of your partner's illness but are not being validated. You are also not alone in this. My five sisters and brothers deal with her illness too and I lost all of them when I left because I am the sick one. I believe the word was cancer. She has them all believing I joined a cult.

Is getting a new therapist an option?
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« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2020, 08:37:35 AM »

skip once posted on here, he might have said it more than once, and this won’t be verbatim.

If your SO, family member falls into the category of meeting the full diagnostic criteria for BPD according to the DSMV, that without therapy and a whole lot of willingness to do this, then this pervasive mental illness is about as bad as they come..

Yes the behaviours associated with this illness are abuse, it is abuse, and this forum has never said otherwise, but for those members choosing to stay it offers a therapeutic toolbox of recognised strategies and interventions to help YOU minimise the impact of the disorder, and subsequently the abuse.

In my personal and professional experience these tools only really work with those that perhaps have some of the characteristics of this illness, but not those with all, and most definitely not with those who are not committed to or in some kind of therapy.

Staying in a relationship where the pwBPD is not in any kind of therapy, or treatment program, or is low functioning emotionally in that they have no insight into their part in the conflict is virtually impossible.

Ultimately it becomes about you and what keeps you where you are. Yes children, financials, codependency all influence the decision to stay. So do love and hope.

Looking after yourself, I mean looking after your own mental health in choosing to stay where there are high levels of abuse and dysfunction are so so important.

What can we do here to help support you today BigChris?
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Cat Familiar
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« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2020, 02:17:58 PM »

Certainly there are sacrifices in leaving a relationship with a pwBPD--financial, legal, difficulties with custody. But there are also sacrifices in staying in a relationship with a pwBPD.

Being able to assess which sacrifices are most tolerable can give you a clearer picture of your options. There are always options.
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« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2020, 01:09:08 AM »

Chris,

Thank you for being bold and honest. You just described my life. I'm so sorry brother. I feel your pain. My wife was also abused growing up, and also raped as an adult. So much ugly history for her that does not make sense to this day. And It was dumped on me and our marriage. The amount of councilors we have gone thru, nutritional programs, massage therapy, chiro visits, hospital visits, money, time and energy to meet her endless well of desperate needs, exhausting every resource and its never enough. The novels of pure chaos. I feel like the BPD's spouse is the preferred outlet. And I know this is gonna sound bad. But I have felt many times from my wife like somewhere deep inside there is sick desire to willfully inflict chaos and pain. Many people say they are unaware of their behavior but sometimes I do wonder. Maybe because they dont love themselves. I dont know where it stems from. But I have observed my wife study me closely and many times creepily laugh at me when I come very close to exposing her malicious behavior to herself. It gives me the chills. Many people dont understand that what truly has gone on inside our homes. I just want to validate what you are describing in being boldly honest.

My wife just left with the kids a few days ago unexpectedly and I dont know where they are. Probably a safe house. As she has convinced everyone I am abusive which I dont need to defend myself to you or anyone here. I want you to know that you are not crazy. I also still love my wife and feel conflicted. I wish she would heal. I pray and pray.  I will tell you that I do see you as a hero. No one gives you a reward for enduring psychological and emotional trauma minute by minute year by year. But I recognize the suffering you have endured all this time for her sake and for your familys sake. That secret part of you that keeps going because of your convictions and conscience. The struggle with porn is an epidemic. I understand that struggle too my friend. Just want to give you a hug and say your are definitely not alone. Thank you for sharing how you feel.

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strugglingBF
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2020, 03:04:21 PM »


I have felt many times from my wife like somewhere deep inside there is sick desire to willfully inflict chaos and pain. Many people say they are unaware of their behavior but sometimes I do wonder.



This thought rings so true with me.  I have had the same thought so many times.  My GF seems to enjoy creating drama.  This is a mild example of what I am talking about.  My GF is a realtor, and a woman from her high school (let's call her Sally) is also a realtor in the area.  One of my GF's best friends (let's call her Mary), who is also a friend of the Sally, decided to switch from using Sally to list some land she owns to my GF.  This probably made Sally pretty upset, and she isn't overly friendly to my GF when they run across each other realtor functions.  My GF and I were eating lunch over the weekend and Sally's husband came up as a recommended Facebook friend for my GF.  Sally's husband also went to my GF's high school, but they are not friends in real life.  My GF asked me if she should friend request Sally's husband because it will make Sally mad.  I am thinking...why would you want to create needless drama like that?...why would you want to send a friend request with only malicious intent?  We are in our 40's here.  I gave her my opinion and asked her why she would want to go creating drama for no reason.  She got mad at me so I backed off, but I will never encourage drama like that. She didn't end up sending a friend request, but she went off on me for about 15 minutes in this restaurant about how I will not control her actions and if she wants to friend request this dude she will.  I am like, uhhhhhh..ok I was not telling you what you can and can't do...just giving you my opinion and recommending not to start drama.  I could give you example after example like this.  She will see facebook post of acquaintances of hers that are dramatic in nature and she will butt into that persons business by texting or calling them.  Probably one of her most undesirable traits...her thirst for drama...whether she belongs in it or not.

I also identify with how they villainize their partners in various way.  I am over here protecting all of my GF's insane and off-the-wall and potentially catastrophic actions to my family and friends, and I know she is over there portraying me as evil and abusive to her family and friends.  I am by no means perfect and have lost my temper on a number of occasions before understanding the illness.  But I am not trying to win a image war.  She actually recorded me on her phone one evening where we were drinking and got into a verbal argument.  She conveniently hit the record button right after she finished all her attacks and verbal put-downs of me and my kids.  I lost my cool that evening and gave her some verbal business of my own in a very loud and angry way.  I said some things just to hurt her back, not nice things.  She recorded all of my words and text the video to my parents, my brothers, their wives...with the words, "just want you to know who the real [insert my name] is"...  Luckily, my family know enough about what I have dealt with in dating my GF they didn't take it too seriously.  She actually damaged her image more than mine. 

I could go on and on with example after example.   
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