He is unable to recognize his own abusive actions...

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I'm sure many of you have had a similar experience. My pwBPD frequently tells me that I abuse him, claims I am physically abusive, even demanded I stand in front of a mirror and repeat "I'm an abusive asshole and want to change" until he was satisfied during one particularly rough night.

Through my own healing, I understand that I have often been controlling and manipulative in my codependent actions. And it just baffles me that he lacks any awareness of his own very abusive actions. And if I bring them up, I always get an explanation on why it's my fault with years of instances backing up why all our problems are my fault.

Through his progress, this has stayed the same. The criticism and blame and lack of accountability are things I'm having a very hard time dealing with.

[Lightandshine]

I'm sure many of you have had a similar experience. My pwBPD frequently tells me that I abuse him, claims I am physically abusive, even demanded I stand in front of a mirror and repeat "I'm an abusive asshole and want to change" until he was satisfied during one particularly rough night.

Through my own healing, I understand that I have often been controlling and manipulative in my codependent actions. And it just baffles me that he lacks any awareness of his own very abusive actions. And if I bring them up, I always get an explanation on why it's my fault with years of instances backing up why all our problems are my fault.

Through his progress, this has stayed the same. The criticism and blame and lack of accountability are things I'm having a very hard time dealing with.

[Ozzie101]

Abusers rarely do recognize it. And pwBPD can be particularly bad at recognizing and admitting to their own faults.

Part of that is the sense of shame (so strong in pwBPD). They tend to project. They can't handle the shame of their own actions, so in the twisted feelings=facts mindset, they will juggle the facts so that they don't have to feel bad. "I'm not the problem! You are!"

But, again, in abuse situations, that's not unique to BPD. Manipulation, gas lighting, blaming, projection: those are all common abuser tactics. True abusers rarely admit what they've done and victim blaming is one of the hallmarks of the issue.

Once, early on, my H made me make a list of all the ways I'd wronged him and hurt him. I was so caught up in FOG (Fear Obligation Guilt) that I actually did it. No way would I do it now.

Whatever you may have done, it doesn't justify abuse in any form. For any reason.

Just curious, have you sought out help from a DV agency? I started seeing a DV-experienced therapist at the recommendation of people here and it was enormously helpful to me, both from a practical and emotional standpoint.

[formflier]

And...when they juggle the facts as Ozzie101 said, they will grab "nuance" and/or slivers of truth to make those facts fit.

Such as... (I recently "engaged" for a few minutes before I snapped out of it)

FFw:  Blah blah blah...you lied.

FF:  perplexed..do what..lied about what?  (genuinely trying to sort things out)

FFw:  It's like you didn't hear anything from the sermon on Sunday morning...

FF:  (snippy)  Oh like the part about not calling people names, so why did you call me a liar?

FFw:  I didn't call you a liar, I said you lied.  If you don't want to be a liar, tell the truth.

FF realizes there is no point and walks away...

Best,

FF

[Enabler]

Do you journal? I strongly advise that you do. Writing a couple of lines about each day and maybe more when something significant happens. Although each entry is not ‘fact’ unto itself, it may help you some months down the line when you are puzzled over your recollections of an event. Having confidence in the basic framework of the event or sequence of events is very validating... memories can easily get distorted by ourselves, even more so with a PwBPD. Abusive people don’t like evidence, nons do.

I recently read through old text messages from my wife, I have all communications going back to when I first got an iPhone in jan12. It was interesting reading I have to say. For someone who is “controlling” and “abusive” there were a heck of a lot of instructions, demands and petty rants about things coming from her direction and a lot of “yes fears” coming from me. Over the years I started to believe her narrative that I was unreasonable or asking too much, or expecting too much... but really the evidence would suggest otherwise.

“I hardly go out at all”... 158 evenings out and 45 days on holiday in 2019 says you do princess xx

The truth is precious, safeguard it, nurture it. It’s a cornerstone of your own sanity.

Enabler

[Cat Familiar]

Your title of this thread says it all. Whether or not pwBPD can recognize and admit responsibility for their own abusive behavior is debatable.

Typically their response is to project that behavior upon the person closest to them in order to avoid feeling deep shame for their own behavior. I think us nons have no real understanding of how heavy the burden of shame and self loathing that pwBPD carry. And the last thing they want to do is to admit to more.

You’ll be waiting a long time if you hope that he will accept responsibility and want to make amends for his abusive behavior. It can happen, but more often than not, it won’t.

In the meantime, be aware of your own manipulative behavior, but you need not make grand gestures of apology when pressured.

[Stevex]

Typically their response is to project that behavior upon the person closest to them in order to avoid feeling deep shame for their own behavior. I think us nons have no real understanding of how heavy the burden of shame and self loathing that pwBPD carry. And the last thing they want to do is to admit to more.

Is there anyway to help them realize how irrational the deep shame is?  Especially if its directed at a specific behavior they shouldn't really be ashamed off or feel guilty about?

[Cat Familiar]

The shame is such a deeply rooted part of their belief system, I'm not sure there's a way for those of us who aren't professionals to address it. Directly speaking to the shame they feel is likely to induce more of it. And as so many of us nons know from our personal experience, having an intellectual breakthrough doesn't necessarily translate to having an emotional breakthrough. Think about behaviors that "we know better" than to do, yet we feel compelled to do them at times.

[Lightandshine]

Thank you for your replies! This site is the only place I dont feel judged.

I have started journaling and really focusing on self care, and it's getting easier not to take his behavior personally.

I've noticed him trying to bait me recently but I will not engage in anymore abusive circular arguments or lectures about how terrible i am.

[formflier]

I've noticed him trying to bait me recently but I will not engage 

Bravo!  BRAVO!

Can you share some h said she said about what this looks like?  Good job not engaging.

Next level is that you try to start redirecting to something healthier or somehow "flipping" things back.

Best,

FF

[Lightandshine]

Bravo!  BRAVO!

Can you share some h said she said about what this looks like?  Good job not engaging.

Hi FF. Thanks for the encouragement

He recently had a falling out with a friend of his who shared her struggles with him about her codependency in a past relationship. He knows I have been working the CoDA steps.  He is attributing the fallout to her codependency, when really it was because she felt he sent  excessive calls and texts when if she didnt respond.

So hes researched codependency and is always saying things like "that's another thing about you codependents that I read about, you're incapable of empathy". He says something like this about twice a day for the past two weeks. Or he'll say, "I'm all alone and out here (were live far from his friends/family) and you'll never be able to understand me or be there for me". He mentioned how reading about codependency made him realise how abusive i have been to him.

He belittles me daily and I can feel that it's because he wants me to start an argument so he can  come at me with countless stories of how bad I am. I've been down that road and I'm not going there anymore.

Now I try to acknowledge the feeling that he mentions. So when he says something about me not really getting how alone he feels, I say "you're right, I've never been in your position and it sounds like loneliness is something that's really bothering you right now. Maybe you can take that class you've been talking about to meet some new people".

Not going to lie tho...I'm getting better at not taking things personally but sometimes his words still kind of get to me...

[formflier]

I say "you're right, I've never been in your position and it sounds like loneliness is something that's really bothering you right now. Maybe you can take that class you've been talking about to meet some new people".

Not going to lie tho...I'm getting better at not taking things personally but sometimes his words still kind of get to me...

Not taking things personally is a big step to work on.  It's hard...because you know they most likely want you to take it personally.

I like the words you are using!      I would encourage you to keep shortening it and I would also encourage you to reconsider the wisdom of offering suggestions or solving problems (unless specifically asked).

"You are right, I don't fully understand how you feel.  I'm ready to listen to your feelings."

Then follow up with validating questions from that earlier link.  Hmm, it would seem I'm thinking of another thread.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0

You can also switch up your responses so they don't become stale.

"Oh my, this sounds important.  I'm ready to listen so I can better understand."

Can I give you some FF homework and have you try to take the same thought and express it back here in writing 4-5 different ways?  Remember...shorter is better.  More focused is better.  (Hmm...focused on what?)

You've got this...we can help!

Best,

FF