He Finally Responded: Help Needed

[2Loyal2Long]

After a month of the silent treatment (and nine days of me backing off) my uBPDh finally responded by text that he can talk by phone this evening.  I replied back and asked if after 8 tonight would work for him (it’s a courtesy, he takes his meds for bipolar around 8 or a little later and they knock him out within 20 minutes).  I haven’t received a response since, he’s either busy, napping, or testing me.  I’m just leaving him alone for now and plan to call after I wrap up my day.

Okay, I have to respond differently going forward.  I will only call one time, I won’t chase.  I’ve been told to expect plenty of testing, this has been his longest period of silence in 16 years (we’ve been separated a little over two years now).

If, and it’s a very big “if”, he speaks tonight, how do I keep this a high level discussion and not trigger him?  He tends to poke his head out and then retreat so I don’t have high expectations of him following through and talking tonight.  It’s a pattern of his, follow through isn’t his strong suit.

It feels like game playing (the whole relationship, not his response by text earlier that he could talk this evening).  I don’t even know how to wrap my mind around an illness that feels like manipulation and a massive power play.  I know I can’t react like I used to (I’m new here and am still learning) and it’s going to take a lot of fortitude to stop giving him reactions.  I now understand that I made his illness worse and change obviously has to begin on my end.

Thoughts (and prayers) appreciated from those with experience dealing with major stonewallers.

Many thanks.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pursuingJoy]

Did you speak last night? How did it go?

[2Loyal2Long]

Hi, actually we did.  He messaged me when he was free which was a surprise.

He’d already taken his meds and was sleepy so we kept it brief.  It ended up being more of a check-in call which was fine.  Instead of bringing up sore topics that lead to this I just kept it light and thanked him for his responsiveness.  I told him I’d been continuing to pray for him and surprisingly he said he had been as well (I don’t believe he was mirroring, he does pray but I was surprised he’d been praying for me specifically).

I wrapped the call up since he was really sleepy (meds) and I held back, I didn’t push for any follow up.  He was the one to suggest we could talk again and I said that would be nice.

Basically I need to hold back, not push, let him breathe.  I’m not expecting to hear from him anytime soon, this is like turning a battleship around.

Feedback appreciated, thanks for your follow up Pursuing Joy.  Additional insight is appreciated.

[pursuingJoy]

It sounds like it went well! You seem to know, intuitively, what will be effective responses as you move through this season. I'm glad you can let him self-soothe and manage his own emotions. Are you ok? Is this working out the way you want? How are you taking care of yourself?

[2Loyal2Long]

I’m lonely.  I feel held hostage.  I’m making friends and I’m working steps in Alanon.  Seeing a therapist who treats BPD’s and those affected by it.  Going to a Family Connections meeting tonight for support.  Trying to hang on and have faith, eat healthy, remember I need to build a life for myself regardless of whether he ever comes back.  A while back he said he just couldn’t make up his mind and he felt guilty for making me wait.  He said he couldn’t guarantee if he’d ever be back and he knows it’s unfair to expect me to wait.  I can’t make him come home and ultimatums don’t work.  With his mom providing all his basic needs of life he has no motivation to move through his ambivalence and with her interference he doesn’t have to worry about abandonment.  As long as I’m married, dating isn’t an option.  So I’m in limbo.

Talking again is an improvement but with recent damage on both sides we’re a long ways from healing.  I don’t know what to do with his fears of engulfment, I feel paralyzed by his inability to make a decision.

Right now I feel like I’m rearranging the chairs on the deck of the Titanic, it feels like this ship is still going down if there isn’t some sort of crisis in his life which will require him to make a decision.

Thanks for any and ALL feedback, Pursuing Joy.  I appreciate what those with experience in this have to offer.

[2Loyal2Long]

The BPD support meeting was terrific!  I learned a lot and saw how easy it is to invalidate someone who’s already sensitive and make things worse.  The meeting was for BPD’s and nons, it was really inspiring to see those with the diagnosis participating in their own healing and expressing themselves.  My gosh, what courage!

Seriously, I felt so much compassion and realized I have a lot of healing to do from self blame.  The facilitator said a typical response is “If I had only known,” from family members.  What I thought was his manipulation all this time was his only known way to cope.

My heart just breaks realizing how much I’ve contributed to making things worse for him and myself.  I just didn’t understand.  I’m committed to learning a new way.

Once I process this I’ll be working on forgiving myself but, dang, if I had only known a long time ago.

Just wanted to give an update.  This illness doesn’t look so awful when I see what’s underneath.

[pursuingJoy]

You're using this limbo-like season to grow and expand your knowledge of BPD, increase your self-awareness and build your toolbox.    I'm impressed. 

With his mom providing all his basic needs of life he has no motivation to move through his ambivalence and with her interference he doesn’t have to worry about abandonment.

Interesting. Does his mom usually play this role?

The BPD support meeting was terrific!  I learned a lot and saw how easy it is to invalidate someone who’s already sensitive and make things worse.  The meeting was for BPD’s and nons, it was really inspiring to see those with the diagnosis participating in their own healing and expressing themselves.  My gosh, what courage!

I love it! What a blessing that you have a BPD support meeting in your area!

This illness doesn’t look so awful when I see what’s underneath.

I can relate. Last night in marriage counseling I told my H, who does not yet know about his mom's probable  BPD diagnosis (long story), that I realized she's not trying to hurt people simply out of malice. She doesn't know how to manage all of the anger and hurt that's built up for years, but it's there with nowhere to go, so it spills out like acid and hurts the people around her. H appreciated this perspective. H, who is enmeshed and codependent, often jumps in and takes responsibility for her behavior, so we also talked about how she is still responsible for her part.

You're doing some excellent work. So inspiring.

[2Loyal2Long]

Hi PJ, yes, his parents don’t know where they end and he begins.  Same for him.  And they all deny the enmeshment, even his T.  She told me she just ‘didn’t see it’ during a joint session and said she can only go on what he tells her.  That told me everything.  He’s not forthcoming with her and she doesn’t pull information from him.  I think of his weekly sessions as the coffee hour.  T thinks it’s bipolar, I could tell her differently.

His dad once told me, “As far as I’m concerned you don’t even exist.”  His mom treats my uBPDh like a husband.  My FIL walked out on MIL three months ago, he won’t be back.  That was when H said he wanted to move home.  When elderly MIL refused to move in with her oldest stepson and stay put my H no longer needed me as a backup plan.  He’s afraid to leave mom and I believe that’s the fear of abandonment/clinging behavior right there.  His parents have rescued him his whole life and from previous marriages.

It’s a sad situation and despite the little progress talking briefly the other night I haven’t heard from him and I’m not expecting miracles.  I see my new T tomorrow.  After two sessions she said until he experiences a crisis and loses all enablers he won’t change.  She treats BPD and family members, this is her specialty.

Even if I divorce, and it’s a strong possibility, I still need to understand and heal.  My mother was most likely BPD, my H and her (she’s deceased, both of my parents are) both have identical behavior.  It’s like dealing with spiteful toddlers at times.

And crazy me, I still love the man but Lord this hurts.

Yes, my MIL owns my H.  A friend who met my in-laws 11 years ago said, “I hate to tell you but I don’t think you’re going to have a marriage until those parents of his are gone.”

I’m here, I’m learning, but I’m worn down.  I saw your update, congrats on finding an MC who gets it.  Most don’t.  My heart goes out to you and your family.

Thanks for responding!

[pursuingJoy]

Whew. When I read that his dad walked out, I thought 'yeah that sealed it.' My H's dad died 10 years ago and he feels a huge obligation to take care of her. We could swap stories for sure. So many parallels!

I’m here, I’m learning, but I’m worn down.

I know, friend.  There are better days coming.  Until then we'll cheer each other on.

[2Loyal2Long]

Bless you, PJ, I’m cheering for you all as well.

I know this isn’t a religious site and I don’t want to offend anyone but isn’t it odd that God specifically addressed how a man will leave his parents and cleave to his wife?  I didn’t read the instructions for women and wasn’t slow to speak, slow to anger.  His parents looked like Satan in the flesh.  It didn’t take long to figure that out.  My trying to help H grow up and separate from them has been their worst nightmare, they fought harder and won.

Yes, I’ve done damage.  Even if I hadn’t I doubt my situation would have turned out differently.  The umbilical cord around H’s neck has cut off oxygen to his brain.

Okay, PJ, I do have a warped sense of humor.  It helps me survive.  I’ve got to get it out somewhere safe.

[once removed]

What I thought was his manipulation all this time was his only known way to cope.

i can understand this.

we all, to some extent, read others through our own lenses. its where we get our social cues. its how we relate.

and that can be invaluable. when i remember the pain that i went through in the breakup of my relationship, it helps me identify and connect with people going through similar, whereas sometimes i struggle with folks i feel arent "getting it" or arent further along.

really seeing where someone is coming from (and responding to it) is a challenge, especially when it comes to BPD, something complex, complicated, and foreign. at the same time, its the most valuable skill of all.

2L2L, ive followed your story, and i see your growth, even in just the past couple of weeks. i am confident that you are ultimately going to be okay, in whatever path you choose.

its a complex and complicated journey, involving a separation that involves years apart. not unheard of, by any means, but unique.

i think that there has been a tendency to see what he does as a means of sticking it to you, to hurt you. and i can understand why; plenty of it may even have been. people hurt each other in these situations.

but its also, at its core, a story of two people who, underneath it all, still love each other. whether that love is enough to restore things remains to be seen, and is impossible to judge, but the first step is stopping the bleeding.

and the second step is to, in spite of all the enormous hurt, begin to understand where the other person is really coming from. i think youre on that path.

the problems werent formed over night. they wont be solved over night. and i know youre unsure of which direction you want to take things. but the steps you are taking will help you in whichever direction you go.

[Adrian26]

@onceremoved

I share 2L2Ls recent realizations in how BPD behaviour isnt malicious by intent, but just maladapting to inner pain.

I too have suffered quite some grief about that and indeed thought 'if only I had known'.

What is the best way to communicate this empathy, this understanding? Especially when a lot of damage is already done but the mechanism behind it only now makes sense?

[2Loyal2Long]

Hi OR and Adrian, I’ll reply later this evening.  I just updated my other thread.  Thank you both for your replies here!

There is hope, Adrian, I promise.  I’ll share what I do on damage control later.  Healing is possible and can bring much more intimacy in a good way.  It’s a form of humility and validation.

Be back later,
2L2L

[2Loyal2Long]

Hi Once Removed, I do have an update on my  coffee date with my uBPDh.

It went beautifully.  You would have thought nothing this last month or so had gone down.  We both acknowledged that it needed to be tabled for now and to simply enjoy each other’s company today.

Okay, so I did get a little tired of hearing about football but since he was engaged I did my best.  He asked about our dogs and I gave him updates.  He asked about my work and I have to admit I winced a little, I haven’t been at my best since this started in December.

We did talk briefly about what started the end of the reconciliation back before Thanksgiving and I was able to handle it delicately.  I said I thought it must be really hard dealing with thoughts and feelings that somehow overtook him and asked if I was getting it right.  He said yes, and said he didn’t understand why he got into certain thinking patterns and would shut down out of fear.  I simply validated his feelings and said it must be distressing and that surely others have felt the same way too at times.  I think he appreciated my effort and I tried to show a lot of compassion.  I was very gentle and did a lot of validating and empathy.

When he talked about his fear of moving home I asked if he was afraid of losing himself in a romantic relationship.  He said he felt like he had to give himself up to be in a relationship or people wouldn’t like him and then he hated himself for giving himself up.  I had a brainstorm and asked if that was the way he felt growing up in his family.  Boom, he opened up and the conversation took off.

From there (this is for you too Adrian since you’d asked about how to make up for harm done by the nons) I said, “I want you to know I did a lot of things in the past that were hurtful without knowing it.  I’m not proud of my behavior and I don’t want to do those things again.  I did the best I could with what I had at the time and am learning how to listen differently so I can hear you.”  I said I was seeing how my responses could be defensive and I am more open to really hearing what he’s saying.  I did a lot of mirroring to make sure I was getting it right.

Then he said something that blew me away.  He said, “Sometimes I have too much empathy and then sometimes I can’t feel anything at all for the other person.  I don’t understand why I go through that.”  I’m guessing what he was referring to is the dissociation or ‘numbing out’ to regulate himself.  Feedback appreciated.

The thing is, the love is still there and it hurts to see a beautiful person live in so much fear.  He looks like he wants to break through his freezing up and is just too terrified.  Of course, I’m sitting there thinking to myself “this is BPD and if I could just get you in front of a DBT therapist this could be a different story one day.”  I kept my mouth shut, I was a good girl.

Once Removed, I have to tell you this.  The whole time my H and I talked about the tougher stuff I remembered everything you’ve said about not pushing and I put your suggestions into play.  I had to do the opposite of what I’m accustomed to.  Not easy, but my old ways made things worse.  This forum is awesome, it was like having my cyber buddies there coaching me on a coffee date!

Today was a success.  My heart breaks when I look at this beautiful man who wants so much to experience intimacy and is so terrified of getting swallowed up alive.  It’s like the shy puppy that cowers in the corner and is afraid to come out and play because he might get yelled at or rejected.  It breaks me so deeply.

My T explained to me last week that because of his own abandonment/engulfment fears that his extreme distancing to self soothe triggers my own damage from my childhood and next thing you know I’m triggered into pursuit and he hides like a tortoise in its shell.  He did tell me today that he doesn’t do what he does to hurt me or punish me and he can’t really explain why he does it.  I could tell he was really remorseful and is aware of the pain his behavior has caused.  Notice I didn’t say the pain ‘he’ caused.  It’s not him, it’s the maladaptive behavior of BPD.

On a good note I’m growing in ways I’d have never been challenged to grow.  I have a lot to learn and a lot of growing up to do myself.  It’s going to take a lot of patience.  Since my T works in a DBT group they also do MC for high conflict couples.  I’m going to discuss that with her as well.  At some point that may be a back door to get him individual DBT to help his cognitive distortions.

Once Removed, I don’t know who you are but thank you for your selfless coaching and Investment of time in a cyber buddy you don’t even know.  I literally imagined you whispering  in my ear today, “Stop, don’t push him, be grateful and easy does it!”

He and I agreed to talk on the phone tomorrow night and pray together.  We also may have another coffee date next weekend.  Maybe in a few weeks we can actually go for a bike ride.  We haven’t done that in years and it was one of the ways we bonded.  He suggested bicycles for Christmas one year.

More to come, more work to do . . . on me.

Many Thanks,
2L2L

[Jwood]

Thanks for posting this 2L2L.

There's a lot of good info and language in your last post from your meeting with your H i know will help when / if my udBPDbf comes back. There have been times with me too when using some validating language and asking questions about his past has unearthed new information. I think i was doing it innately before but need to be more concious and consistent with it. Easy to get triggered into my own codependent abandonment similar to what you said.

So many similarities in this whole thread. Thanks for sharing

[2Loyal2Long]

Hi Jwood, thanks for your reply.  Glad you got something out of it.  I learn a lot from everyone’s posts.

I cringe when I think back on some of the ways I handled things.  One of the things my T told me last week when I was feeling awful over things from the past is that a BPD can bring out our absolute worst and that I need to forgive myself.  She said second guessing and ruminating just feeds depression.  Just learn from it and learn new ways to communicate going forward.  That was helpful for me because I was carrying a lot of guilt and feeling like I’d done so much to destroy the marriage over the years.  Yes, I did, but I didn’t know then what I was facing with him.

I know Once Removed mentioned on this thread or my other post that it is going to take more positive moments over time to outweigh the negative.  It won’t be an overnight process.  I used some of Dr. Sue Johnson’s suggestions from EFT (Emotionally Focused Therapy) and reminisced over coffee about some of the fun things we used to do together.  His face started lighting up and I could see him relax and enjoy the conversation.  I also used distractions when things felt tense.  Oddly, I just realized something while writing this.  He did the same thing too, with distracting.  At some points I just didn’t know what to say and he took the lead and changed to a lighter topic.  I just now realized he was mirroring my behavior.  Kind of sounds like new dance steps.

Wishing you well on your new interactions in the future.  I’m excited to hear your results!

[Jwood]

Thanks 2L2L.

I'll definitely check out the EFT info.

The last few days have felt especially hard. Here's why. After 5 weeks apart he looked at my linkedin a week ago which makes me feel he's painted me white again which has me feeling off balance. Sometimes i wonder if that's his little que to let me know he's thinking of me and his subtle way of saying "please come get me" or "don't go", but he finds it incredibly hard to do much more. My T says to stay strong and wait. She's given me a visualization exercise to pull my energy back from him and believes once the abandonment kicks in (which is likely if I'm now painted white) he'll contact me.

I'm just uncertain and have such a pull to send him a message. I miss him so much and i feel he misses me too. If he comes back, discussing a move forward plan which includes therapy is one of my boundaries.

[2Loyal2Long]

Jwood, I’m so glad you’re sharing what you’re going through and what your feeling!  Great work on self awareness!

Your T knows behavior, definitely do your best with her guidance.  Of course it’s hard to do the opposite, we’re accustomed to our own reactions and it takes practice (not perfection) to change our own behavior.

Is he sending subtle hints?  Who knows.  My T said I was giving my H too much credit, thinking he was shooting for all power and control in the relationship.  She said he can’t think cognitively on that level.  He does what he does to self soothe.  Everything I thought I knew about his thinking processes is now changing.  He told me yesterday that he doesn’t pull away and go silent to hurt me.  He said it confuses him as well.  I’ve known him 20 plus years.  When we visit in person I get a pretty good ‘read’ on him.  He was being honest about that yesterday.

I wanted to call him today, I was miserable.  I wanted to pursue the connection that started again yesterday.

What’s good for the BPD is good for the non . . . I distracted myself.  I did laundry, I listened to Brené Brown’s TED Talk on shame.  I cried out my heart to God.  I came to some awarenesses about myself and it was hugely cathartic.

I didn’t call him and I quit thinking about him.  It felt awesome.

We had agreed yesterday to talk tonight and pray together on the phone.  I left him a voicemail as I headed out to run errands and dropped it at that.  It paid off (not pursuing).  He called back while I was busy.  He called three times and left two voicemails.  It was wonderful being busy and letting him wait and do the pursuing for a change.  I wasn’t playing games, I really WAS busy.

I called when I was free and it went just fine.  Baby steps.

Your bf could be sending signals but can you do something different this time?  Distractions?  Hobbies?  Something fun?  Meet a friend for coffee and leave your phone in your purse?

It’s hard for me too but with practice it’s getting easier.

I’d love to hear what the visualization is your T suggested, if you’ comfortable sharing.  I’m always looking for new ideas.  I hope some of what I shared is helpful to you as well.  And I believe it’s great that you’re deciding what boundaries are healthy for you if/when he comes back (they usually do).  We teach people how to treat us.  I’ve learned that the hard way!

Be blessed and hang in there, I’m cheering you on!

[Jwood]

I know what you mean about rethinking what you thought you knew about what his motives are. It does seem controlling and manipulative but i too am starting to question it. At the beginning of this last split i said, "honey, it's happening again. Please try to stop yourself". He too commented that he wasn't sure why, but then it just keeps going and there's no stopping it. I do believe there's a bit of self awareness creeping in. When he goes through the cycle he turns into a nasty jerk and then typically comes back around and apologizes. He does sometimes still try to shift some of the "blame" to me.

My fear i guess with not reaching out is that he doesn't return. Although i know too that he has to cycle through the split completely. Very hard.

The visualization exercise has been really good. She said to picture a rose just in front of you and picture the person just beyond that. Then think of your energy in the form of light being pulled back from them through the rose into your "control centre" just above your head - which i believe is a chakra. You can do the same with sending their energy back to them but in reverse. My T uses both traditional psychology and spirituality. She's really good!

[2Loyal2Long]

I understand your fear.  After my last fallout with H I was absolutely convinced it was done, it would be silent treatment until I gave up.  I know the feeling.

Look again at your bf’s cycle, he eventually comes back.  No one knows for sure but I’d trust what your T is saying.  And that’s an awesome visual meditation.  I’m using meditation as well and work with a spiritual director.  It helps because the roller coaster of the BPD cycles can spin me around.  I need grounding and the calmer I am the better he responds.

I don’t know if my H will ever be able to work through his cognitive distortions and fears but for now I’m doing my best to live a moment at a time.

[Jwood]

Yes, i sometimes feel we're in a standoff situation and I'm usually reaching out trying to talk, make sense of it, find a solution. Essentially I've been jade'ing with sprinkes of validating, using SET as i learn here

Yeah, every time it's happened i feel there's no way, we must be done and then he calls. It's really surprised me each time.

Agreed, finding ways to keep our calm and balance is important. Their cognitive distortions are so real for them. Really just starting to process that!

[once removed]

youre handling this like an ace, 2L2L.

one thing that stands out is that he could not have been more upfront with you about his internal struggles. that gives you a lot to work with.

another is to reiterate that this is very much a long game, baby steps process, upward. it was a good night. he was vulnerable and open. you played it cool. hes kept in touch.

dont be surprised if things take a downward turn, or if he retreats, and try not to emotionally react to that, at least directly to him. thats not to be pessimistic, just to reiterate that (long term) progress will not come easily, and may be tested.

[2Loyal2Long]

You nailed it again, Once Removed!  You’re a pro at this!

Yes he retreated, yes I reacted although it wasn’t what it used to be, he said he was pretty much done, I believed him, then I didn’t, I got off the phone and distracted myself.  It was the usual:  he comes a little closer, I think things are okay enough to have deeper conversations, and he retreats.  I feel like this could go on forever at his pace and I feel, ummmm, controlled and discarded.  Anyone else relate to that feeling?

The thing is, how does one maintain patience in the face of such uncertainty?  How do you all do this and not lose your minds and keep up the energy to just get through daily life?

I’ve been on this marathon for 16 years and I am tired.  It’s like investing everything and not knowing if there will ever be a payoff.

Does he know about BPD?  Yes, I told him my suspicions before I found this site and we had one face-to-face conversation about it before Christmas where he said it made sense.  His P didn’t tell him about the bipolar diagnosis upfront six years ago and in one very frustrating conversation (there had been many and I was worn down)  I finally blew a gasket and told him the diagnosis of bipolar his P has decided on (which I still believe does not match his symptoms).  Guess who he was angry with?  His P, for not telling him directly.  My next conversation with his P the Dr. mentioned how to break the news to him and I said “Well, that’s already been taken care of and he’s upset that he found out from me, not you.”  His P was fine and they smoothed things out.  H handled that diagnosis well.

I’m frustrated with him and myself.  I can’t get it out of my head that H is gaming me and just stringing me along.  Instead of thinking it’s an illness I think he’s just, well, weird.  It’s hard to separate the person from the illness.  Last night on the phone we were digressing (because I was pushing for answers as to why we’re still separated, it’s my default) and I asked if he ever thought about me.  His answer:  “Sometimes.”  Okay, it hurt.

The thing is, I feel like if I just moved on and divorced him it would be no big thing to him.  Is their numbness part of the dissociation?  He seemed happy and pleased with how things went Saturday, we talked about trying for coffee next weekend, and I tried to restrain myself for the next two days.  I did a great job of distracting myself Sunday, not so much yesterday.

So here’s my question:  Where on earth do you all get your patience from?  How do you handle the uncertainty and that feeling of the BPD being in full control of the pace of the relationship and frequency of contact?  It’s like a bad case of hide-and-go-seek.

I’m fairly certain he’ll chill out as long as I don’t up the level of stress and give him breathing room.  In the meantime . . .

Feedback appreciated, as always!  

[2Loyal2Long]

Well, hell’s bells, that didn’t take long at all this time!

He just called and wanted to know if I wanted to pray together, that was huge on his part.

It also gave me a chance to acknowledge I had started pushing again and apologize for it.  I said, “I know we had a good connection Saturday and I started pushing again, I get the feeling it makes you feel uncomfortable.  Would that be safe to say, am I getting it right?”  He said yes.  It was a huge effort on his part to not start the silent treatment again in response to last night’s conversation, I told him I’ve come to expect that and we both acknowledged that we’re still a little guarded with each other right now.  I also have come to learn that laughing about my slips lessens his tension and mine as well.  Distractions, changing topics, keeping it light, helps too.  I’m learning.  Right now I’m just grateful for his surprising effort so quickly after our talk with me pushing last night.

We agreed to talk again tonight and pray together so advice on how to chill me out would be greatly appreciated.  This stuff ain’t easy, I’m having to change EVERYTHING!

[Jwood]

good to hear! do something today for you that makes you feel calm. Sometimes I'll make myself some notes to keep me on track on the call. high level stuff/guidelines, things I might otherwise forget, especially if things start to turn.

[2Loyal2Long]

That’s such a great idea, Jwood!  Since I’ve been on this site I’ve learned from other’s experiences what to do, what not to do.  I’m understanding his (and my) triggers better and ‘easy does it, keep it light’ seems to be where he connects.  I’ve got to slow down my pace and one thing that clearly sticks in my head is what Once Removed said . . . it’s going to take a long time and a lot of positive things to turn this around.

I’ve lived on the scarcity principle for so long and feeling like he’s ‘sticking it to me’ that I automatically feel he’s being manipulative.  It’s hard turning that perception around but the more I learn the more I regret how I’ve handled things previously.  I’m now catching myself more quickly before I do too much damage but Lord it’s hard being this patient.

I watched a YouTube video last night about what’s under the surface of a BPD’s reactions and the core of it was toxic shame which leads to fear/hiding, like a child.  That got my attention because he’s the only man I’ve ever known who’s talked about toxic shame.  I got him John Bradshaw’s book, “Healing the Shame That Binds” last year for his birthday.  He loaned out his book long ago and never got it back.

His dad no doubt is an overt narcissist like nothing I’ve ever seen before and his mother is hopelessly clingy and childish, she clings onto my H like her life depends on it.  His parents have done a lot of damage and I’ve contributed a lot too because I didn’t understand.  I always knew his behavior was off and no therapist could put their finger on it.  I’ve had four  people in six months flat out tell me, “This sounds like borderline.”  Each of them has had personal experience with BPD so I came here and found others telling my story over and over again.

Soo, I’ll be making a list of go-to’s for conversations that may get tense in order to change the focus.  I’ve done this  (change topics during a conversation to lighten things, I just started on Saturday) but never made a list.

And yes I’ll do something relaxing today, thank you for reminding me to take care of myself.  

Thanks for the ideas, Jwood!  You’re awesome!

[Harri]

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Thank you.