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Author Topic: BPD ex rage  (Read 287 times)
lemon10

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« on: January 14, 2020, 04:28:31 PM »

So we broke up two months ago and since then we were in status quo, talking and seeing each for a drink. I was trying to get her back. She was giving me mixed signals, like at some point she told me okay let's try, we have nothing big to fight about anymore. She then totally changed her position and told me she doesn't feel anything towards me anymore. At one point I became desperate and plead to get her back - I pushed her away and she got really angry because I was trying to convince her. She got pissed at my constant messaging and told me that her "stomach burns" because of me. Referring to when she is speaking with me. She lashed out at me over the phone and I started to cry (and yea I consider myself thick skinned but her insults were so hurtful) and told her that I just want to spend time with her without any motive but to talk about what happened - I really needed to understand why she broke up. She invited me to her apartment. Literally minutes before I got to her apartment, she texted me "I can't do this, I'm not in the mood". When I got to her apartment, I called her and told her to come outside so that I can give her flowers that I brought. She had so much rage in her eyes, I never saw her like that. She invited me to apartment, I could sense that she didn't want it. Few minutes later, she rages out at me, telling me that she despise me. She kicked me out of her apartment out of nowhere - I didn't say anything that could hurt her. Few minutes later, she calls me and says she is sorry. "Sorry for everything, you are okay, I just need to be alone".
Since then, I sense that something is really off with her, and I started to realize that she has all the traits of the BPD.

So just out of curiosity:
1) She told me she fall asleep right after she kicked me out of her apartment. She said that "experience" was exhausting for her. How come can this happen? I was in her apartment for 10 minutes.
2) Why would she feel stomach burn just by talking to me?
3) Does she really need to be alone, or she has found someone, so she feels shame talking to me?
It's silly now when I realize how childish she is.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 04:40:17 PM by lemon10 » Logged
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Rev
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« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2020, 06:32:33 PM »


So just out of curiosity:
1) She told me she fall asleep right after she kicked me out of her apartment. She said that "experience" was exhausting for her. How come can this happen? I was in her apartment for 10 minutes.
2) Why would she feel stomach burn just by talking to me?
3) Does she really need to be alone, or she has found someone, so she feels shame talking to me?



1)  She falls asleep because of lack of supply. It's like a lack of oxygen. She must have  been hoping for something more - which does not mean that what she was hoping for was reasonable.

2) Yes it's very possible she has stomach burn. Anxiety is hard on the stomach.

3) EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING a pw BPD sorts out in their mind is processed thru shame.

Hope this helps

Rev
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 06:38:11 PM by Rev » Logged
lemon10

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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2020, 05:08:57 AM »

Thanks -

Could you please tell me what do you mean by lack of supply?

I feel like there were too many situations post break up that would make her feel ashamed. I am wondering is it possible for that shame to be gone at some point or they will carry it all the time?
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Ozzie101
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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2020, 08:20:17 AM »

I can't speak for Rev, but I'd say your pwBPD was emotionally exhausted. Yes, you were only there for 10 minutes, but it sounds like it started before then -- with a phone conversation and more before. PwBPD tend to feel emotions with great intensity and it sounds like she was on a real roller coaster even before you got there.

And Rev is right -- anxiety can manifest in stomach pain.

Can the shame go away? Possibly. With a lot of therapy and work, they can at least learn to process it better.

Where do things stand with the two of you now?
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Rev
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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2020, 08:48:03 AM »

Thanks -

Could you please tell me what do you mean by lack of supply?

I feel like there were too many situations post break up that would make her feel ashamed. I am wondering is it possible for that shame to be gone at some point or they will carry it all the time?

Lack up supply - It's a term used to explain what we represent. Our attention is "supply" - positive supply is flattery - negative supply is an argument - for example.  The point is that pwBPD and other similar personality disorders (generalized insecure attachment styles, narcissism, anti-social) are characterized by a lack of an internal sense of self - that feeling that you just "know that you are you and you know who you are".  Without some kind of external "supply" of attention, a pw BPD is literally less capable of self affirmation than an otherwise emotionally mature person.  Positive supply is preferable - but given the choice of an argument to get supply and no supply - the argument wins out every time. That's why it's so confusing to the other person.

As for the shame - understand that the situations themselves did not cause the shame - the shame is latent (and what causes that shame to exist in the first case is up for debate - but for the sake of argument let's leave it at some kind of childhood trauma.)  This disorder is literally then a dis - order - ed way of looking at events in the here and now.  If the only way I know that I know I am me is to feel shame because I have evolved to exist in a feeling of shame (for whatever reason) I will perversely arrange to have everything (even the words "I love you") be twisted to affirm that sense of shame. All other ways of looking at an event would have the perverse effect of telling me that in fact I do not exist.  

Ozzie is right about therapy and shame. And he's right about the exhaustion.

I would suggest that you consult the audio book Stop Walking on Eggshells. It's free on youtube.     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QY4JZJonCs

Hope this helps.

Rev
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 08:54:09 AM by Rev » Logged
lemon10

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« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2020, 11:19:11 AM »

Thanks for this information, it really helps.

Well the events weren't all in the same day.
First we had a phone call and then the next day, she texted me first asking: "is it okay if you can come later, I am going to the shopping mall now". I agreed and told her I will be at her place at 4pm. Few minutes before I arrived she texts me: "sorry I am not in the mood to see you". Then I told her to come out just for a minute so I could give her flowers. She then invited me inside and then raged at me and kicked me out. I NEVER saw her like that. It was wrecking but I kept my cool. She then called me and apologised, saying that she needs to be alone, I explained that I will respect that but I just wanted to resolve a conflict we had in person like adults. Then she told me, "its not resolvable", it's better to start dating someone else. I was shocked.
 Few days later after she kicked me out of her apartment I wrote her my final email and told her that I am moving on. Since then I am in NC. She is now stalking me on social media. Thats about it.

I fall in love with her - but I didnt understand her push and pull things, so 3 times I left because she was pushing me away. Then she would come back begging for me to stay. When I broke up with her last time, it was the same story - but I told her that things got intense. Since that last time I pulled away, she is in complete devaluation.

 
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 11:34:01 AM by lemon10 » Logged
Ozzie101
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« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2020, 11:50:50 AM »

Sounds very much like the push/pull dynamic so familiar around here. You sort of mention it, but have you read much about it? If not, I'd recommend looking here to get a good handle on what may be going on:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=99725.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=47237.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=281066.0
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Rev
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« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2020, 12:28:51 PM »

Thanks for this information, it really helps.


 Since that last time I pulled away, she is in complete devaluation.

 


Ozzie makes some good suggestions.  Not sure where you are in the cycle of push/pull - so not wanting to sound like I'm preaching. Just wanting to point out the devaluation may not last long - and that another charm attempt may surface.

Rev
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lemon10

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« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2020, 12:53:03 PM »

That makes sense.
It has been two months since I broke up with her. The last break up I was exhausted and really tried to rationalize why I am breaking up with her - it wasn't like last two times where I just pulled away without much fighting. And then when we met at some point, she told me that she doesn't feel anything towards anymore, then she said she loves me but "love is not enough" and such. Totally confused. I noticed there that something is off. I'm in no contact for almost two weeks now, she was blocking me/unblocking me on social media and stalking. I'm going to be in no contact until she reaches out - but knowing how "prideful" she is, I guess that's not going to happen. Or perhaps because she has too much shame to text me. She probably doesn't know where to start. Just guessing. Smiling (click to insert in post)
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2Loyal2Long
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« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2020, 02:24:41 PM »

This sounds painful for you, I completely understand.  BPD’s don’t resolve conflict, they run from it.  It’s us nons who want adult conversation and search for closure or use the opportunity to convince the BPD to try again.  Been there, done that.  I feel your pain.

When she said she “wasn’t in the mood” to see you after all, that was her boundary.  Pushing across her boundary (she relented and opened the door) you didn’t get the response you were hoping for, you got attacked.  My uBPDh has told me he has difficulty saying “no” and then when he does something that doesn’t align with his values I’m the one on the receiving end of his anger.  I’ve begun to understand more about this disorder.

It’s normal to expect an adult conversation.  We’re dealing with individuals with arrested emotional development who lack adult processing skills.  They’re overly sensitive, easily slighted, and any accountability scores a big hit to the little sense of self they do have.  Any shame can literally destroy their sense of self.  They hurt deeply and lack the skills to express that pain on a higher functioning level.  That’s why our heads spin, we don’t “get it” because we don’t think that way and can’t relate to their cognitive functioning.  We don’t get it until we get it.  I “got it” after coming to this site.

The push/pull demand/withdraw cycle is exhausting.  I’ve been through a blender in a 15 year marriage and knew something was off in the beginning.  I slowly became conditioned to the behavior.  It will make any average person’s head spin.  Fixing them becomes our focus until we hit bottom.

The less we push the better the results.  There’s no way of knowing for certain what that result will be but this interrelational dynamic is predictably unpredictable.

Do:
Care for yourself
Create your own life
Focus on what’s fun and important to you
Learn new ways of relating (skills and book references are on this site)

I hear how much you’re hurting.  There’s so much support here, keep learning and take care of you first.  So glad you’re reaching out, good for you!
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lemon10

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« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2020, 04:39:18 PM »

@2Loyal2Long Thanks for the support! It really helps that I've found you people Smiling (click to insert in post) It brings me knowledge and a better understanding of what was happening.

"  That’s why our heads spin, we don’t “get it” because we don’t think that way and can’t relate to their cognitive functioning.  "

- On that point, what was intriguing for me is that my ex was intelligent - and I really enjoyed conversations with her about everything - except relationship dynamics Smiling (click to insert in post) . We had so many moments like: "Oh I already read that random book that you've read". I built so much trust because of that - but her gray area when it came to values was a bit strange for me - she did read a lot, but was opposing anyone with "strong opinions". I tried to explain that people have values because it gives them moral direction, but she neglected that. So on that point of cognitive functioning, I'm not quite sure what gives them any kind of moral compass that can facilitate thinking and decision making, since they can be high functioning, just like my ex. Code of ethics is probably too vague concept for them.


« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 04:44:53 PM by lemon10 » Logged
Rev
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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2020, 06:29:44 AM »

So on that point of cognitive functioning, I'm not quite sure what gives them any kind of moral compass that can facilitate thinking and decision making, since they can be high functioning, just like my ex. Code of ethics is probably too vague concept for them.

t

Your story on the intelligence resonates - book smart - not emotionally intelligent - my ex is an award winning journalist and a public figure - is a carbon copy of mine. Well read, knew all the buzz words - incapable of sustaining any real discussion for more than 10 minutes.  This is because inside, pw BPD (like with NPD traits as well) are vacant.

As for a moral compass - they engage to a certain degree of "emotions based facts" which can lead to impulsivity.  They can be capable of compassion but it can be rather infantile - like "i'll share my candy with you if you be my friend."  My ex was pretty far on the spectrum and it was a pretty abusive relationship - so I'm talking from an extreme here, but as far as I can tell (based on my own work, masters studies and this therapy) it is a question of degrees on a spectrum - not yes or no - if you understand.   And it depends on context. My ex could go for a few months and then cycle into a period of tremendous rage. I spent a good part of my last year with her in fear after she pulled the wheel of our car moving at 75 mph (120 kph).

The whole thing can be rather confusing - trauma bonds are very difficult to undo - it takes persistent effort and eventually it breaks.  Men in general have particular challenges - hard for us to understand victimhood in a relationship because we tend to see only the weakness in that term. We don't easily accept that we might be victims of abuse.  That's why men tend to suffer PTSD like symptoms - flashbacks, ruminations, and emotional isolation. These things are true of women too - but their relationship skills are different.

Great to see you here. You will find that there are great people who understand. We've all been there.

Rev
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Ozzie101
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« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2020, 07:47:58 AM »

Ah, yes, IQ, not EQ.

My H is a smart man. But he absolutely cannot understand any thought processes other than his own. If someone does or says something he wouldn't do, it really frustrates and confuses him. Lately, he's relied on me to explain things to him -- then he seems to "get it," though he may not fully accept it. It's that emotional immaturity.

His beliefs and values also fluctuate with his emotions. If he's at baseline, he has certain values that mostly tend to be in line with mine. If he's dysregulating, all that goes out the window.

My H is self-aware enough that he can see that (in his calm times). He mentioned the other day that, "You're just in a different realm than I am when it comes to emotional maturity." Well, yes. Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)
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2Loyal2Long
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« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2020, 11:39:35 AM »

Hi Lemon10,

Maybe I could’ve elaborated a bit more.  Yes, EQ, not IQ.  When it comes to processing stressful emotions they think differently and feelings are facts, to them.  That’s the blender.

My uBPDh can get in fear about our relationship so easily, it’s zero to ninety in two seconds.  Lots of fear-based projection.  He’s extremely intelligent, communicates well, is funny, loving, an absolute sweetheart . . . when it comes to other topics.

Ask him to work towards us healing and living together again and it’s game over.

I mean, you wanted to talk to your gf and understand things, right?  She came through with behavior that brought you to this site, correct?

That’s the cognitive functioning that leads to thoughts that create the feelings that are facts to them that leads to the behavior that spins us around and brings us here.

Make sense now?

Welcome to Oz, buddy.  We’re grateful to have you with us.  We need sane company.
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Rev
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The surest way to fail is to never try


« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2020, 08:09:53 AM »


Welcome to Oz, buddy.  We’re grateful to have you with us.  We need sane company.

Thank you for my smirk of the day!!!!!

Soooooo glad to be out of the blender.....

Have a good one folks - I'll live in OZ with you for ever - 'cause once you've been here it's kind've hard to go to Kansas. It hasn't changed but we have.

Rev
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