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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Frankee
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« on: January 15, 2020, 10:55:31 AM »

I find myself troubled today.  I had counseling which went great, but I had an altercation with my exbpd the next day.  I was at the boathouse that we had shared together.  Trying to be amicable.  

He started getting angry.  I attempted to leave and told him that said I will not listen to you talk this way and we need to cool off.  He wouldn't let me leave.  We started fighting verbally.  Then when I tol him he's hurt me more than anyone in my entire life.  He asked if he was worse than my ex who is a child molester, it pretty much exploded after that.

The fight eventually turned physical where he threatened to do what he did before, I tried to escape, he grabbed me and tried to wrestle me to the ground, so I bit him twice.  He threatened to call the cops, I told him to go ahead.  I'm not proud of myself.  I feel ashamed I let myself get so out of control.  I scare myself with this rage I have inside.  I called my counselor and told her exactly what happened.  Biggest mistake was thinking it would be okay to talk to him in person.

I almost didn't share this, but I need to be honest on here, with counselor, and myself about what is happening in order to get the proper care.   What's troubling is I am letting it start to seep out the cracks.  I have even questioned myself if I can handle college this semester.  It's a curious thing being full of anger and rage.  It makes even the strongest person, weak and less capable of dealing with regular things.
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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2020, 11:39:18 AM »

Dearest Frankee-

I am so glad you shared this experience.  And I’m so glad you’re safe.  And I’m so so sorry that you’re feeling this deep anger and rage.  It is curious, but not really, to feel this way... after all you’ve been through.  Think about that.  How could you NOT feel this way?

Your rage likely rises in response to “how could I have *stayed* so long with a man like this...”. Where your exH’s rage likely rises in response to his thought of “how could Frankee leave *ME* ?”  Same coin, opposite sides.

Your exH NEVER really looks at himself or his actions.  EVER.  And he likely NEVER will.  Do you think he’s taken a step back and feeling badly today?  I doubt it.  But you are.  And that speaks volumes, my friend.

Rage and anger are powerful emotions.  And we’ve discussed here how your emotions (all of them) were suppressed for so long during your marriage.  The reasons for that suppression don’t really matter any more. 

I believe what matters now is that you’ve got to find a way to express these emotions in a way that doesn’t place you in danger.  Rage and anger cannot tell time.  You’ve got to respect these feelings and give them their space or they’ll haunt you forever.  I know this from experience, Frankee. 

Mine came boiling to my surface (seemingly out of nowhere) in the last year or so.  I was FORCED to deal with it.  Didn’t even know it was there...  but my situation is different.  I live by myself, kids gone, uBPDbf doesn’t live with me.  So when I was alone, I’d scream bloody murder to myself in front of the bathroom mirror and collapse on the floor.  Sometimes in tears, sometimes not.  Sometimes I’d “rage write” in my journal.  Most of the rage had to do with my exH (divorced now 7 years).  Some painful childhood stuff.  And I spoke of some of it with my T.

Frankee - The bottom line is I do NOT believe you can work this stuff out with your H.  He is absolutely blind to how he hurt you.  He cannot and will not be accountable for what he did.  He will do everything in his power to “exonerate” himself and make you feel worse.  And you don’t NEED him to help you through this.  You don’t NEED his acknowledgement or apologies.  You’re strong enough without that.

Re: conversations with your exH - please be careful, Frankee.  He’s shown you that physical altercations are still his MO.  Perhaps child exchanges now need to take place in public places.  Someone responsible should ALWAYS know when and where you’re going to meet your H.  Agree?  You’ve got to protect yourself.

About your college this semester.  You’ve got a full schedule with the children, work, your schooling and therapy.  If you think (not about feelings); if you THINK and BELIEVE it is in your best interest to focus on personal wellness for the next three months, then that’s what you do.  If this brief school hiatus does NOT hurt your education progress (speak to school counselor?), then that’s what you do FOR you.

Sometimes you’ve got to put yourself first.

Frankee-  I think you’re remarkable, always have.  And by the way, I likely may have bitten, too.  Sometimes instinct kicks in to protect ourselves.

Your Thoughts?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2020, 12:02:04 PM »

It’s good that you’re sharing and being honest about what happened. This is why lots of people choose to go no or low contact. It’s easier when children aren’t involved, but even so, this incident makes it apparent that interacting with him isn’t safe.

I do understand the rage you felt and I experienced that myself the night that I broke up with my ex husband. After years of being physically assaulted and never calling for help, that night he had thrown something at me and then chased me down the driveway. For the first time ever, I yelled for help, even though it was unlikely that anyone could hear me in such a rural area. And for the first time, he backed off and quit chasing me.

I slept by myself on the couch with a knife in my hand. If he were to assault me in my sleep, I was prepared to fight to the end, no matter what happened. Fortunately he didn’t, or it would be likely that I’d still be in prison.

I had never experienced that level of rage before or since and it was very frightening to think about what I could have done if confronted.

So, I truly understand, Frankee.

You understand that preventing you leaving was a criminal act and what he said was a criminal threat. Should either of you had called the police, it would be likely that both of you would have been hauled off.

Obviously you never want to get into this situation again, so it would be wise to have strategies to never be alone together.

Most of all, you need to remember that he has a personality disorder. You cannot speak to him like you would with someone who is emotionally healthy. But someone who is emotionally healthy would never have done those things to you.

I’m glad you called your counselor. It’s good that you will be working on dealing with your anger. Don’t be surprised if it takes a while to let it go. You had to suppress it for a long time.

 Virtual hug (click to insert in post) Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2020, 10:07:08 AM »

Thank you for all the support.  I have been thinking about my behavior and trying to analyze it.  I think another part of my problem is that I really don't care.  I don't care about his feelings, I don't care if something bothers him, I don't care if something makes him angry. 

The last fight we had, I replayed it in my head to figure out where it went wrong.  When I lost control.  I lost the ability to control my own emotions and that's where it went South.  I've dealt with him for years and one thing I always tried doing was defusing the situation.  This time.. I let it all out.  All the things that I had been thinking for a long time, all the mean things I have ever wanted to say to him came out, all the things I never said to him because I didn't want to hurt him.  The last fight, I was and wasn't trying to hurt him.

I felt like I was purging all these toxic thoughts out of my head, not thinking of the consequences.  I also felt like I wanted him to know exactly what I have been feeling and hiding away and I wanted him to know the pain.  Vengeance.  Such ugly emotions.  He tells me if I keep acting this way that I will end up like him, I had to agree with that. 

So much hate and anger won't stay contained to one person.  This kinds of emotions take over and infect every other aspect of life.  Just like before when I was in a different place in my journey, I write on here to get my feelings out and to try to work through them.
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2020, 10:36:30 AM »

Thank you for all the support.   

So much hate and anger won't stay contained to one person.  This kinds of emotions take over and infect every other aspect of life.  Just like before when I was in a different place in my journey, I write on here to get my feelings out and to try to work through them.

Hello there my friend...

So sorry that you are having to find yourself investing so much energy to get untangled.  It really does take energy - doesn't it.

You know that you will find support here so keep sharing. And do use this place to build up the confidence to know who you can tell and what you can tell them. Eventually you will get the momentum to tell the story to someone in a position to put distance between you and your ex.

Physical violence is NEVER acceptable.  And yet I know how much people can normalize this. My own ex hit me four times, broke things and belittled me in public and yet I stayed and tried to leave three times - but each time gave in.   So the only thing here is that it does take energy to take this on.

You are loved and worth loving. 

Thanks for sharing.

Rev
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2020, 09:24:45 AM »

Had a phone call/text with my ex.  Been tired and a little forgetful lately.  Maybe because of stress and crazy schedule, I'm not sure.
 
I wrote this out in my journal.

I was probably the meanest I have been to my ex.  He started in by asking me if I had been drinking.  Then proceeded to tell me, you know if you go in to work drunk, they will fire you.  Tried to say he was concerned because I was drinking a lot before, that I had been forgetful and tired.  I snapped.  I said that is extremely insulting.  We were fighting all day.  He broke down, starting crying, begging me to stop, begging me not to keep doing this, that he's hurting, and he can't take it.  Said in the coldest tone.. now you know how it feels, now do you see why I left you?  I felt no sympathy, no empathy, no anger to him.. just emptiness while I sat there jabbing at him, telling him now he knows how I felt.. Even today I don't feel really that bad.  It scares me a little I can be so cruel and not feel horrible..

Why can't I let go?  I was doing so well there for months.  It seems something snapped in my mind.

He tells me he sees the damage done, he sees how much I am in pain, he tells me that he knows the way he treated me was wrong.

As I am more open to talking about things that happened, he tells me he doesn't remember because he was so messed up on drugs.  Then I realize.. All the pain that has built up because of what he did, he doesn't remember half of it... And that enrages me.  That he could had been so cruel to me and not remember it.
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« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2020, 11:11:28 AM »

You ask why you can't let it go? I suspect that you want him to fully understand and feel how you felt being treated so abusively.

And that may never happen, as you've said that he cannot completely remember all the things he did because he was on drugs.

Knowing that you will never get the satisfaction of him really understanding the impact he had upon you, how can you come to terms with your past?

And is a part of this anger you feel, anger toward yourself for trusting and believing in him despite his behavior?
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« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2020, 05:46:49 PM »

Oh, Frankee, I relate to so much of what you are saying.

After I left my ex, I tried to still have contact because of our son, and, like you, I found myself extremely triggered after a while of increased contact by the things he said. I think I felt empowered by leaving and setting that boundary around no longer allowing myself to be abused, and I no longer held back some of the things I wanted to say to him which often came out in the worst possible means of communicating my pain,  though in my heart I really just wanted him to hear me, hear and acknowledge that his treatment of me had caused so much damage. But he really could not. I would say that he would not, but I know now that his automatic defense against shame kicks in and I really do not think he is capable of honestly looking at the ramifications of his behavior or the reasons why he does what he does.

I did not like my behavior, either. I realized after a while that I was not able to manage my emotions around him or even on a phone call with him, and that made me feel just as messed up as he was and I could not bear to think that I was not any better at adult interactions since I knew that I was judging him in my mind for the way he acted.

I knew it was a product of the trauma I experienced, and I also knew it was my responsibility to manage it or get help to manage it. That was the difference between my ex and me.

In my case, I sought help from a trauma counselor at the dv center, who is now my full-time permanent trauma therapist. She helped me to go NC. I would have considered LC because of our kids, but he was and is still using drugs and he had proven that he was still a physical threat to me. With the help of my T and people on these boards, I went NC and decided that I was going to heal with or without sincere acknowledgement and remorse from him. I didn't need him to face the destruction he caused. I knew it, and it was my responsibility to do something about it, unfair as that was/is.

The emotional volatility calmed down as soon as I didn't have to face contact with my abuser on a daily basis.

I am still in therapy, still working on trauma, still have a long way to go, but I ain't where I used to be, as the saying goes.

Can you radically accept that your ex may never truly grasp the extent of the damage? Can you live with it if it turns out that he doesn't have an interest in your pain?

Can you proceed with your healing without trying so hard, and in vain, to still be heard by him? It is possible, I promise. It takes work, and it sucks, but it's better than living broken and bitter and angry. Not that I don't still feel that way some days, but not all. Not all.

My breakthrough came when I released him of the debt that I felt he owed my heart, and I realized that he couldn't pay it. It was futile, and I didn't need it anyway. I focused on me, and within six months of therapy I was barely mentioning him in my sessions. It was about me, and it no longer mattered what he did or did not do.

He proceeded to find another gf and continues the same destructive pattern with her to this day.

I proceeded to keep chipping away at my degree, work, pay bills, save money, take care of S4, and keep going to therapy. He is still stuck in the same place he was two years ago, seven years ago, ten years ago. I am actually getting somewhere with my life, finally ;)

If I could make one suggestion to you, I would say keep going to therapy and putting one foot in front of the other, don't put yourself in a position where you are alone with him in physical contact, and limit your phone/text/email contact to conversations about parenting only. Do not discuss the relationship anymore. If he accuses you of being drunk or starts giving his opinion about what you are doing or not doing, get off the phone. Don't hang in there and engage in conversations where you get emotionally triggered. You may not be able to manage your emotions surrounding him for a while, until you have been consistently going to therapy. That is ok but just be aware of the volatility and make decisions regarding contact with him accordingly.

You can do this.

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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2020, 05:42:37 AM »

Oh, Frankee, I relate to so much of what you are saying.

After I left my ex, I tried to still have contact because of our son, and, like you, I found myself extremely triggered after a while of increased contact by the things he said. I think I felt empowered by leaving and setting that boundary around no longer allowing myself to be abused, and I no longer held back some of the things I wanted to say to him which often came out in the worst possible means of communicating my pain,  though in my heart I really just wanted him to hear me, hear and acknowledge that his treatment of me had caused so much damage. But he really could not. I would say that he would not, but I know now that his automatic defense against shame kicks in and I really do not think he is capable of honestly looking at the ramifications of his behavior or the reasons why he does what he does.

I did not like my behavior, either. I realized after a while that I was not able to manage my emotions around him or even on a phone call with him, and that made me feel just as messed up as he was and I could not bear to think that I was not any better at adult interactions since I knew that I was judging him in my mind for the way he acted.

I knew it was a product of the trauma I experienced, and I also knew it was my responsibility to manage it or get help to manage it. That was the difference between my ex and me.

In my case, I sought help from a trauma counselor at the dv center, who is now my full-time permanent trauma therapist. She helped me to go NC. I would have considered LC because of our kids, but he was and is still using drugs and he had proven that he was still a physical threat to me. With the help of my T and people on these boards, I went NC and decided that I was going to heal with or without sincere acknowledgement and remorse from him. I didn't need him to face the destruction he caused. I knew it, and it was my responsibility to do something about it, unfair as that was/is.

The emotional volatility calmed down as soon as I didn't have to face contact with my abuser on a daily basis.

I am still in therapy, still working on trauma, still have a long way to go, but I ain't where I used to be, as the saying goes.

Can you radically accept that your ex may never truly grasp the extent of the damage? Can you live with it if it turns out that he doesn't have an interest in your pain?

Can you proceed with your healing without trying so hard, and in vain, to still be heard by him? It is possible, I promise. It takes work, and it sucks, but it's better than living broken and bitter and angry. Not that I don't still feel that way some days, but not all. Not all.

My breakthrough came when I released him of the debt that I felt he owed my heart, and I realized that he couldn't pay it. It was futile, and I didn't need it anyway. I focused on me, and within six months of therapy I was barely mentioning him in my sessions. It was about me, and it no longer mattered what he did or did not do.

He proceeded to find another gf and continues the same destructive pattern with her to this day.

I proceeded to keep chipping away at my degree, work, pay bills, save money, take care of S4, and keep going to therapy. He is still stuck in the same place he was two years ago, seven years ago, ten years ago. I am actually getting somewhere with my life, finally ;)

If I could make one suggestion to you, I would say keep going to therapy and putting one foot in front of the other, don't put yourself in a position where you are alone with him in physical contact, and limit your phone/text/email contact to conversations about parenting only. Do not discuss the relationship anymore. If he accuses you of being drunk or starts giving his opinion about what you are doing or not doing, get off the phone. Don't hang in there and engage in conversations where you get emotionally triggered. You may not be able to manage your emotions surrounding him for a while, until you have been consistently going to therapy. That is ok but just be aware of the volatility and make decisions regarding contact with him accordingly.

You can do this.



What a beautiful testimony.

Rev
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« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2020, 03:45:32 PM »

I am glad that I am came back on here and started sharing again.  I find that some days are easier than others, some days it's hard to get out of bed, and some days I just go on autopilot.  I find that on occasion, I have to force myself to do things.  I don't always feel like I can conquer everything.  Sometimes I lay in bed and just want to sleep in and just watch a movie while eating ice cream.  I do it though.  Every day.  I get up, get the kids to school/daycare, go to work if I work, make myself go to the college to study, make myself do the little things.  I sometimes do it with pep and enthusiasm and a good feeling, other days I do it while grumbling how much things suck or just going through the motions. 

I have a good girl friend who we have found kinship in each other.  On bad days, we vent to each other, say how much things suck, then start cracking jokes about things, getting each other to laugh.  We both are healing from terrible abusive relationships, trying to go back to school, and working hard.  I've never had that before.  I never had someone I could talk to in real time about the good and the bad.  I remember going through the pain before when I was with my ex.  How alone and disconnected I felt from everything.  Severe depression..  When I saw my counselor again for the first time in a long time, I could talk to her without breaking down and didn't sugar coat or downplay my feelings.  I have another appointment tomorrow.  That was something else she helped me with, reminded me that the counselors are there to help, not judge and that I need to be completely honest in order to get the right kind of help for myself.

Today is the first day of class.  I feel that anxiety starting to creep back up.  That little voice in my head, whispering the doubt that I can pull it together and actually do this.  That I'm not smart enough, not good enough.  Telling me I won't make it.  I keep trying to remind myself that I did it before.  One year ago, I came back to college after years.  That not only did I make it, but I did it while dealing with so much and cancer surgery on top of that!  The scar is there.  Shiny and glossy as ever.  I remember thinking the scar would be something ugly.  I see it and I remind myself of what I went through and still made it.

I expected to return to classes, with this conquering the world feeling that everything would be better.  Yet I still feel that I have backtracked and fighting off depression and anxiety on a daily basis.  I cried today.  Worked on taking ownership of all the mistakes I have made.  I keep listening to a video, talking about loving yourself.  Something that isn't just there, you have to work at it.  I feel at times that I am burying my feeling and my emotions, but what I think I am doing is letting the emotions come, sitting with them for a minute, accepting them and then letting them go.

You are right though, I think I need to accept also that the real amount of damage done will never be fully understood the way I want.  I need to start letting go of the pain, anger, resentment.  I think being more gentle with myself and realizing that the amount of rage I have been feeling is all the years of bottled up emotions coming back full force.  I think that embracing all my feelings without wondering who I am turning into is what I need to do.  I know who I am deep down.  These temporary feelings aren't going to change the person I really am.  Just make me a stronger version of myself.
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« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2020, 12:29:18 PM »

Certainly it’s not easy creating a new life for yourself, but you’re doing it.  Way to go! (click to insert in post)

Establishing new habits takes time, and after a while they become automatic.

Awesome that you have a compatriot who can fully understand what you’ve been through and great that you’re letting down your guard and sharing fully with your counselor. That’s what makes progress happen!

You managed to do well in school while dealing with unbelievable stress. Have faith in yourself. You’ve gone through a trial by fire.
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« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2020, 05:52:11 AM »

I have to admit, the amount of clarity I have is almost stunning.  My exbpd tries to say I blame things on him, when I watched him scream and point the finger at everybody else.

Our s3 is having troubles sleeping the night.  Wakes up, wanting him to get milk or sit with him.  Now.. just from dealing with kids and what I've read, they go through these phases.  Some harder than others.  This what I happening, is what normal kids go through.  But to him...

The "ghetto a$$ sp**ks" at daycare are only concerned with getting their money, they are lazy, they don't do anything with kids, they make them sleep all day, that's why he wasn't sleeping.  When that theory flipped and he still wasn't on nights I watched him... It's all my fault, I have traumatized him by ripping him out of his home and making him live in a hole (women's shelter), I have given him nightmares, I have caused him to be half retarded, f**Ed up his childhood, it's all my fault that he can't sleep though the night.

Just like the other day where he badgered me about how s8 isn't his and how s8 knows he isn't his real dad.. that's all my fault too.. actually made me feel pretty rotten about it.

I once asked myself.. how could I had "allowed" this behavior, why didn't I stop it before.. the answer came to me.. because he was that good.  I have witnessed the mass amount of manipulation he has hurtled at me lately.. and you know what, I actually felt bad about a lot of it, guilty, like.. maybe it was my fault.. all mine.  

Now I see.. how he had me so beaten down and believing everything before.  He knows me so well, he sees every fault, every mistake, every insecurity, and he uses it. What I can't help but notice is the pattern.  He did the exact same thing when I went back to school a year ago.  I sincerely feel like he is trying to sabotage my future.  I would like to think that's just crazy.. but look who I am dealing with.
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« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2020, 03:20:40 PM »

I once asked myself.. how could I had "allowed" this behavior, why didn't I stop it before.. the answer came to me.. because he was that good.  I have witnessed the mass amount of manipulation he has hurtled at me lately.. and you know what, I actually felt bad about a lot of it, guilty, like.. maybe it was my fault.. all mine.  

Now I see.. how he had me so beaten down and believing everything before.  He knows me so well, he sees every fault, every mistake, every insecurity, and he uses it. What I can't help but notice is the pattern.  He did the exact same thing when I went back to school a year ago.  I sincerely feel like he is trying to sabotage my future.  I would like to think that's just crazy.. but look who I am dealing with.

What may help you have compassion for him is realizing how insecure and adrift he is. Whether or not he also has narcissistic traits, and he likely does, just being inside his head is uncomfortable with feelings of self-loathing, guilt, feeling "less than" others, self-doubt, etc. Now he may not be consciously aware of all of that, and he's probably not, as it can be nearly unbearable, but that's why pwBPD and pwNPD often project their uncomfortable feelings about themselves upon others, namely us.

And they have an excellent understanding of where our inadequacies lie, and by using that awareness and triggering our insecurities, they can feel less alone in their feelings of incompetence.

Everyone has insecurities. What I've found helpful when someone is trying to trigger mine, is to frankly admit them. "Yeah, I'm not so good at that. (So what!")--I don't say that last part out loud. Acknowledging the truth in their barb completely takes away the power in it if you have the attitude that no one is perfect and everyone makes mistakes and that we learn from our mistakes.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
SinisterComplex
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Gender: Male
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Broken Up
Posts: 1190



« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2020, 12:18:21 AM »


I once asked myself.. how could I had "allowed" this behavior, why didn't I stop it before.. the answer came to me.. because he was that good.  I have witnessed the mass amount of manipulation he has hurtled at me lately.. and you know what, I actually felt bad about a lot of it, guilty, like.. maybe it was my fault.. all mine.  

Now I see.. how he had me so beaten down and believing everything before.  He knows me so well, he sees every fault, every mistake, every insecurity, and he uses it. What I can't help but notice is the pattern.  He did the exact same thing when I went back to school a year ago.  I sincerely feel like he is trying to sabotage my future.  I would like to think that's just crazy.. but look who I am dealing with.

So your intuition isn't wrong. If you progress then he will become useless and disposed of because you are better than he is and his ego cannot handle that. Sounds really crappy phrasing it that way, but this is along the lines of how the thought most likely is playing out in his mind. So he has to manipulate you, put you down and essentially sabotage you.

If you can wrap your head around the idea that this is what you are dealing with perhaps you can just continue on about your business and not let him influence you one way or the other. Truly detach and don't let your feathers get ruffled so to speak. I know this is like kicking a dead horse, but all you can do is control you and what is in your immediate control. Just focus on you and what you can control and in the words of Hopsin work to put a smile on your face. :-)

Cheers and best wishes to you!

-SC-
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